After Indian election, relationship with Pakistan back in focus

May 17, 2009

After a diplomatic pause enforced by India’s lengthy election campaign, the country will soon have a new government after the ruling Congress party won an unexpectedly decisive victory.  But analysts doubt the change of government will bring a significant change of heart in India towards Pakistan.

Despite Pakistan’s offensive against the Taliban in the Swat valley, they say India has yet to be convinced the Pakistan Army is ready to crack down more widely on Islamist militants, fearing instead that it will selectively go after some groups, while leaving others like the Afghan Taliban and Kashmir-oriented groups alone.  While Pakistan wants to resume talks broken off by New Delhi after last November’s attack on Mumbai, India has said it wants Islamabad to take more action first against those behind the assault, which it blamed on the Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba.

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, who is expected to remain in office after the Congress election victory, is now likely to come under pressure from the United States to soften India’s stance towards Pakistan.  The current stand-off leaves both countries vulnerable to a fresh flare-up of tensions which could torpedo Washington’s plans for Pakistan and Afghanistan. It also complicates U.S. efforts to persuade the Pakistan Army to move troops from the Indian border to fight Taliban militants on its western border with Afghanistan.

So how will Singh respond?

Indian analysts are already arguing India must stand up to U.S. pressure to ensure its own interests are not sacrificed to those of the United States. In an editorial in the Times of India, Brahma Chellaney writes that U.S. policy — very much focused on Afghanistan — now runs counter to Indian interests. He argues that Kashmir-oriented groups like the Lashkar-e-Taiba are of little interest to the United States. “Instead, Washington intends to goad New Delhi post-election to reduce border troop deployments, a step that would help Pakistan to infiltrate more armed terrorists into India.”

It may not be entirely correct to say that Washington is not interested in the Lashkar-e-Taiba.  The group was cited in media reports as a suspect in the London underground bombings in 2005, potentially making it as much of a global threat as al Qaeda. But Chellaney’s comments do underline a traditional suspicion in the region – both in India and Pakistan — about what is seen as a ruthless U.S. focus on its own interests.

In an editorial in The Hindu former diplomat M.K. Bhadrakumar says India must galvanise its regional diplomacy, rebuilding its once close relationship with Russia and Iran, to strengthen its hand. But he also writes that, “certainly, resumption of the composite dialogue with Pakistan ought to be a priority.”

The other question to ask is whether Pakistan and India would both be better off talking to each other directly, rather than churning their arguments through the prism of U.S. diplomacy. According to some analysts the two countries came close to a breakthrough on Kashmir in 2007 — a subject explored at length by Steve Coll in the New Yorker in March – but were unable to close the deal after then President Pervez Musharraf became embroiled in political problems that eventually forced him to step down last year.  There has been no official confirmation, and the two countries have come close to agreements on other issues before only to see them fall apart on disagreement about the exact terms.

President Barack Obama has so far been a leader in a hurry. His energetic special envoy for Afghanistan and Pakistan, Richard Holbrooke, earned a reputation for being able to bang heads together after he brokered the Dayton peace accords in 1995.  How far can, and will, the U.S. administration go to persuade India and Pakistan to talk peace?  And equally importantly, how well will India and Pakistan manage the U.S. administration?

(Photos: Congress party supporters celebrate in Allahabad; Congress leader Sonia Gandhi with Prime Minister Manmohan Singh)

Comments

Diplomacy will need to be resumed with Pakistan. There is no doubt. The burden is on Pakistan to prove that it can be trusted and it will be sincere in its efforts to build friendly relationship with India. Trust will build if Pakistani government and people can begin to realize that India is not an enemy of theirs and that an unnecessary paranoia has been built by their military rulers in order to escalate the tension between the countries and justify their hold on power. Pakistanis must realize that the Indian voters have clearly shown that religious fundamentalism is not in their favor. And the verdict is towards progress and stability. The US has to step in hold the Pakistani military in choke so that they allow democracy and civilian authority to grow there. I am sure democratic governments in Pakistan would have been a lot more reasonable in their approach towards India. And they would have focused more on growth and development of the country than arming their military to its teeth. Hope wisdom prevails. Pakistan an earn India’s trust by sincerely working in solving the case of the Mumbai attack. That will surely help. No one is accusing the Pakistani government for the Mumbai attacks. So the culprits must be captured and handed over to India to complete the criminal investigation. They should not show partiality, capturing Al Qaeda terrorist and handing them off to the Americans. If they can work with the US, they should be able to work with India. We definitely need Dawood Ibrahim handed over. He is an Indian citizen and committed crimes on Indian soil. As a first step, Pakistan has to do something of this nature to win India’s trust. Right now Pakistan needs India and India can do without it. Pakistan has a lot to gain by being friendly with India and building bilateral trade between the countries. India is a huge market. Man Mohan Singh is a forgiving person and I am sure he will soon extend his hands towards Zardari for a friendship. It is only a matter of time. But Pakistan has to give up its old mindset for diplomacy to work. The two countries must resolve Kashmir issue by accepting the LoC as a de factor border and drive out all the militant groups that are trying to cause trouble in the valley. They have not accomplished anything over the past 20 years and they are only bleeding Pakistan of its precious resources. India has only grown stronger. But I am all for keeping diplomatic channels open.

 

Myra,
The most important question regarding India and Pakistan is…
Can Pakistan be trusted?

Given the Inidan embassy attack in Kabul by ISI, Mumbai attack by “non-state” actors against whom Pakistan is reluctant to take any action and continuing inflitration attempts in Kashmir. India simply can not afford to trust Pakistan.

Other question to be asked is can India trust US?

The US war against terror in Afghanistan is against terrorists whom it percieves as a threat to itself and not necessarily to the rest of the world. Given this it is ready to deal with presumably moderate Taliban so as to have a peace deal. Effectively, which means have a a government in Afghanistan which listens to Pakistan and at the same time undertakes that no anti-US activities will happen there. If that is achieved it will most probably be satisfied and leave the region quietly installing a government giving billions in aid so as to be in the good books. India can not trust US either.

There are so many other questions too…

All action as of now is being taken against Pakistan Taliban which was threatening to overtake the whole country. So it is in Pakistan’s interest to have a go against them. But what about organisations like LeT? Will we see similar offensive against India specific terrorist organistaions operating from Pakistani soil? And will US goad Pakistan to take concrete action against Pakistan for using terrorism as a state weapon?
Even in public domain many Pakistanis beleieve that Pakistan should have LeT as a counterweight to Indian army. Given this kind of public backing can any civilian government go against public sentiment?
Will we see a concentrated effort by the government to galvanise public support to take action against LeT?
Will we ever see Pakistanis denouncing state sposnsored terrorism with sincerity?
Even Obama acknowledged Pak army is misguided in it obssession with India, even today. Will we see a change in the attitude of Pak army?
There have been news of Pakistan enriching its nuclear arsenal.. its surprising that a government living off on billions of aid is using the money to enrich plutonium rather than using the aid for development.
http://www.isis-online.org/publications/ southasia/Khushab_23April2009.pdf

Given this scenario can anyone trust Pakistan? And should it be trusted given all that it engages in?

Posted by Aman | Report as abusive
 

India is waiting to see some concrete action on the ground from the Pakistani side. One requirement – dismantling training camps and the infrastructure. Unfortunately all that one gets in return are denials about their existence. If anyone still requires proof of their existence, it is merely proof of the fact that they continue to be in denial.

Sure Indo Pak dialogue should resume, the onus is on Pakistan to get it going. One thing that 26/11 changed is India’s attitude in dealing with Pakistan. First some concrete action, otherwise we don’t care for verbal exchanges anymore. Like it or lump it.

As for US pressure, I think India has proved often in the past, it knows its own mind. US diplomacy in this region and all the pressure they exert is directed towards safeguarding US security interests. The more the US pressure the more domestic reaction will force the government to resist it. India will simply safeguard its own interests for now. Unfortunately, that’s not how international terrorism should be tackled, but then, it takes two to tango.

The same Chellaney article mentions Hillary Clinton’s statements of how the US exerted pressure on India not to react strongly after 26/11 and that the US looks forward to similar restraint from India in future too. That really is hilarious. The rest of us have not forgotten how little restraint the US showed in the face of overwhelming international pressure before Iraq. Its ok for the US to go in with guns blazing, not for anyone else. I know it was a different regime, but it happened to be the same country and Hillary Clinton supported the war in Iraq big time. It is amusing to watch these double standards.

 

Myra

“President Barack Obama has so far been a leader in a hurry.”

—No.Rather in ‘haste’ – & haste makes waste…

Posted by anup | Report as abusive
 

It is hillarious that US wants to put pressure on India to withdraw troops from the border with Pakistan. If this happens, then the border will become like the Af- Pak border. Millitants, terrorists, ISI and Pak army will have a field day. They will be able to walk about freely across the border. That will create many more problems for India. Just imagine that scenario. What sort of message is US sending to India and the rest of the world. Are they coming under pressure from Pakistan?.
US is giving Pakistan $ billions in aid. US wants Pak to move some troops from India / Pak border. And Pakistan is not budging from their stance and neither are they doing anything to dismental any of the hundreds of terror training camps all aimed at India. So Pakistan cannot be trusted in my opinion. Pakistan seem to have the US by the collar and swinging them at will and US either dont know or dont care that they are being swung by Pakistan. In that case, let US sort their problems with Pak. Pakistan is boasting it has half a million strong army and is fully able to defend itself against any aggression. First, they have not been able to defend themselves from the advances of 4000 taliban. Second, they are quite unwilling to move from thier 500,000 strong army even a fraction to fight the terror threat they are facing to their own country. Anybody can read into this. Pak dont want Indian troops at the boarder so that Let, JuD and other terror groups can easily walk in and out of the two countries and create situations like Mumbai and Indian Parliament.
Pakistan and their media keep harping about Kashmir. The ugly situation is actually created by Pakistan and their media by the proxy war and not India. Pak need to be reminded that Pakistan was Indian territory, and so is Kashmir. India have been very generous to have given such a big chunk of their land to settle a religious group. No other country in the history of the world has ever done that.
I agree with previou articles and India should stand firm and settle disputes with Pakistan by dialogue bilaterally. It is in Pakistans interest to stop incidents like Mumbai and London underground from ever happening again.

Posted by Sam Butt | Report as abusive
 

“It is in Pakistans interest to stop incidents like Mumbai and London underground from ever happening again.”
.

given the neocons’ goal of dismantling pakistan, whose interest is served by incidents like mumbai and the london underground and the parliament, especially when those incidents are blamed, by a neocon-compliant media, on pakistan?

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive
 

the big question now for Pakistan is whether the Indians can be trusted there 700,000 indian troops occupying kashmir and many RAW agents working to “help” Afghanistan lol is this the same Hindustan which supported the brutal occupation of Afghanistan by the Soveits its in Indias interest to not send terrorists into Balochistan and stop funding miscriants in Northern Areas of Pakistan but what would really help if India stopped killing Kashmiris and then when they are attacked its all tears and moarning India must learn that its obsession with being a regional power is harming South Asia its been to war with nearly all its neighbours china pakistan and bangladesh skirmishes it must prevent starvation rather then invest in aircraft carriers 836 million indians live on less than a dollar a day i rather have a dictatorship than a fake democracy anyday :-)

Posted by Bilal | Report as abusive
 

I fully agree with Bilal. Pakistani government does not say anything because Pakistan wants to keep good relations with Indians.

Blaming Pakistan for anything happening in India has become a habit of India. Talking about Bombay, I feel very sad about it, if they were Pakistani and had sailed to Bombay. Where was the Indian Navy and who was involved from within India to help…….

Talk and think sense…..

 

Wadosy said…
““It is in Pakistans interest to stop incidents like Mumbai and London underground from ever happening again.”
.
given the neocons’ goal of dismantling pakistan, whose interest is served by incidents like mumbai and the london underground and the parliament, especially when those incidents are blamed, by a neocon-compliant media, on pakistan?”

Do you want to say that Pakistan is not responsible for anything? Who are the neocons you are refering to?

India has a substantial muslim population and many eminent personalities in India are muslims. Agreed there are certain stero types both in Hindus and Muslim communities but by and large Indians are secular and peaceful. As MJ Akbar (a prominent muslim journalist) said. India is secular not because Muslims want it to be secular but because Hindus want it to be secular.

From your previous entries you seem to hate jews and hindus to a lesser extent but yes that bias is there.
Come out of your concpiracy theory ideas and see the world as it actually is.

Posted by Aman | Report as abusive
 

i notice you’re unable to answer the basic question …

that question being: who benefits from terrorist attacks on india and pakistan, attacks that are designed to stir up enough trouble to prevent energy from finding its way to pakistan, india and china?

here’s another question: who has published their intent to establish “benevolent global hegemony”, and why have they demonstrated their benevolence by causing the needless deaths of a million people?

india has sold its soul to the neocon devil, and those nuke plants are not gonna make up for the moral debt you’ve incurred.

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive
 

“India has sold its soul to the neocon devil”

Just one simple question….Which country is amongst the largest receivers of neocon money? Certainly not India.

Talking of selling souls! Appreciate the comic relief.

 

India should always maintain dependable diplomatic relationship with not only Pak, but with all Her neighbour countries – within the circle of MiddleEast, CentralAsia, China, FarEast Tigers, SriLanka, & Maldives. So that She can maintain her rights thro’ discussions instead of force. Thats the best solution. Cos, if we believe in force when it comes to dealing with a weaker nation, how would we handle when the other nation happens to be stronger! The best way is negotiations and finalizations without lilting or tilting. US cannot be relied upon. See the experience of friends of US through various periods. US only makes use of us till we are useful. We should not unnecessarily create situations in Indo China relations for the sake of US. Same applies to our relations with other neighbours. We should become more reliable & dependable friends of our neighbours. We need not have a tunnel vision thinking only of Pak & Bangla, and approach with a bias. Our foreign policy should not be decided by the divisive forces within our country. Our aim longterm should be to broadmindedly and strongly lead our neighbourhood, having gained the neighbours confidence and trust. It may sound a vanity, but it is not impossible. I think China is doing a marvellous job of that in her sphere of influence. We need to pick a few things from China’s experience.

 

Bilal writes: “I rather have a dictatorship than a fake democracy anyday”

I hope a majority Pakistanis do not share this view. Military is an institution under a government. It is not a government. This is like a Supreme Court or Health department taking over the civilian government. Know the difference. Military does not have the necessary ingredients to run a government. It has weapons and trained personnel who can kill. But they definitely do not have administrators who look at the people as citizens with fundamental rights. Dictators spend all their time finishing off anyone they think are against them and putting thing in place that will guarantee their safety in power and security. They can always blame a civilian government for all ills and use force to get whatever they want. Military generals know only one thing – how to wage war or defend. To keep to power, they prefer war and that needs an enemy. And enemies can be created very quickly, usually neighboring countries. Look at what Saddam Hussein accomplished for Iraq. Military simply destroys other institutions meant for national governance and after some time one finds only uniformed soldiers sweeping the streets. Look at what your country is facing. Military dictators not only destroyed your country and its growth, they have also successfully brain washed you into believing what they have been preaching. I do not want to argue with you on your other points because it won’t make any sense to you who has become blinded. But excessive military rule has only destroyed your country. The topic is about whether India should resume diplomatic relations with Pakistan or not. Now India should wonder with whom they should sit down to work – the President or the Prime Minister or the Military or your beloved non-state actors. No one knows who is in charge in Pakistan. The only thing that seems to be calling the shots in Pakistan is the USA. May be India should sit with Hillary Clinton for diplomatic talks on Pakistan.

 

dara says… “Just one simple question….Which country is amongst the largest receivers of neocon money? Certainly not India.”

israel gets the most neocon money…

which doesnt explain why you’re still unable to answer the basic question: who benefits from staging false flag attacks on india and pakistan in an attempt to cause enough trouble to prevent persian gulf and central asian energy from going to pakistan, india and china?

you failed to explain why india has allied itself with neocons who’ve published their intentions of achieving “benevolent global hegemony”, and you’ve failed to explain how that hegemony can be benevolent when it’s already caused the needless deaths of a million people, and the project is just getting started.

as energy supplies decline, the stupidity of your arrangement with the neocons will become more evident… you will finally figure out, as the remaining gas and oil goes to europe and the US, that india was used by the neocons to restrict chinese access to the persian gulf… and you will even begin to realize that india was used to restrict its own access to energy…

…not to mention the moral hole you’re digging for yourselves, as you ally yourself with people who believe that false flag terrorism is a legitimate means of combat, and might makes right.

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive
 

Bilal,
Who is occupying Kashmir is a matter of perspective. We may say that it is pakistan and you may that it is India.
As far as troop deployment is concerned, they are there to stop the terrorists from crossing over and did you forget the mention of election in which one of the seperatist leader fought and lost. That shows the support they command.
Supporting USSR in Afghanistan was a mistake and there are no excuses for that but despite that India has a much better relationship with Afghanistan that Pakistan has with Afghanistan.
With Bangladesh the relationship has been decent to say the least. Even during the mutiny Bangaldesh Rifles against their own army officers, India provided unconditional support to the government and didn’t interfere in anyway. so much for your fear psychosis of India’s regional ambitions. Sri Lanka wanted India to be involved in the conflict with LTTE but India prefered not to interfere although it provided logistic support to Sri lankan army through training and maintenance.
As far as Balochistan is concerned it doesn’t share a boundary with india how do you suppose the terrorist move from India to Balochistan? have you heard of training camps for terrorist in India?
You may like dictatorship if it suits you we are happy with our democracy, you may call it fake if you want thats your prerogative for us its real and for everyone to see. Its effective in certain ways and ineffective in certain but thats a trade off we are happy to make.
Atleast we are not living off on aid. For your information while Pakistan is asking for monetary assistance from one and all, india has offered to buy bonds from IMF. So you see the stark difference, yes I agree India still needs to do a lot but we are moving in the right direction, hope one could have said the same thing about Pakistan.

its one thing to be proud of your country as anyone should be but then there is no shame in accepting if one has made a mistake. Everyone and every country has made mistakes turning a blind eye to them won’t correct them but accepting them and a determined effort to make the change will surely do.

Every country wants to be number 1 there is nothing wrong in it as long as one doesn’t adopt heinous means like state sponsored terrorism to reach there.

Posted by Aman | Report as abusive
 

Wadosy,
India has only got into an agreement with US for nuclear fuel supply. Strategically, it ensures that other countries which actually supply fuel can now legitimately enter into negotiations with India for the same.

All Indians believe that its unfair for countries like US to keep having nuclear weapons with themselves while trying to contain other countries to have the same technology by force.

As far as Israel is concerned, except for some fringe elements in the society, most people here think that what they are doing in Palestine is unfair and brutal. But business is business, you don’t stop looking for your own interest because of this.

All countries are selfish when it comes to their own interest as long as they are sure that it won’t affect anyone else adversely.

Moreover, India’s largest trading partners are as follows for 2008
Export: US 15%, China 8.7%, UAE 8.7%, UK 4.4%
Import: China 10.6%, US 7.8%, Germany 4.4%, Singapore 4.4%

So your constant diatribe of selling your morals is baseless. Give us facts if you can, by the way, you failed to answer the question, do you really think Pakistan is innocent and doesn’t support terrorism against India?

Posted by Aman | Report as abusive
 

Aman says, “…business is business, you don’t stop looking for your own interest because of this.”

is this an example of the perverted shopkeeper mentality that’s caused such commotion in the global financial markets?

and what if neocon appeals to “your own interest” are, in reality, nothing more than a scheme to trick you into doing things that are NOT in your own interest?

(for example, what happens when the neocons doublecross you, and india is forcibly restricted from access to persian gulf oil and gas by neocons who need that energy to fuel their war machine?)

do you think america’s actions post-9/11 are in america’s own interests?

nope, they’re not, unless america has repealed moral law that’s been developed over hundreds of thousands of years, and now believes “might makes right” is a valid moral philosophy.

kinda sad to see india climbing aboard the neocon train to hell.

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive
 

wadosy,
You sound like a wretched, pathetic, pseudo-intelligent person who would rather put out questions tailored to suit his own answers….PATHETIC, just like your so-called country…Pakistan!

Who benefits from this…blah, blah, blah!
Who benefits from that…blah, blah, blah!

It was Pakis like YOU who attacked Mumbai killing over 100 people!

It is Pakis like you who passively sit by and let the Taliban walk over them.

It is Pakis like you who then go and BEG from the world for money to help them remove to the Taliban and then say that its the world begging you to stop the Taliban.

By the way, have you caught those responsible for attacking the Sri Lankan cricket team? No? Then tell me who benefits from not catching the culprits?

The Nuclear Deal between India and the USA is a trade agreement. You Pakis came crying afterwards wanting the same deal because you are helping with war on terror. Only you got rebuffed.

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive
 

Wadosy,

You are making too much out of Israel. It is a small country inserted amidst Arab population. Though it is officially a Jewish state, it has a democratic structure and an industrially advanced country. They do get tremendous support from the US and its allies. We all know that. Just like every nation, they have the right to their existence as people and to defend themselves at any cost. The way to remove that defensive reaction from them is to stop being hostile towards them. Reconciliation and trust can only arise if hostility is removed from the heart. The Muslim societies around Israel are not friendly. They are utterly hostile. So Israel is doing whatever it can to stand up against it. And it is brutal sometimes, just like what the Tamils experienced in Sri Lanka recently. Sometimes malignant tumors have to be removed surgically and that results in good cells being sacrificed in the bargain. Islamic nations of today are not very friendly with everyone and they harbor many extremist organizations which cause death and destruction. It takes two hands for a shake. So if you demand the Jewish people to come down from the high hills, the people you support must do the same. No one will make a deal on someone else’ terms, especially those who are hostile to them. Let us not pull Israel into Indian democracy shall we? Indians do not care much about Israel’s issues. We want to move on and we know our needs. We only respond to those who become barriers to our progress. Please keep your anti-semitic filth confined to the appropriate forums.

 

so nobody is able to admit that neocons intend to establish benevolent global hegemony, and maintain that hegemony by restricting asian access to energy.

nobody can admit that stirring up trouble between pakistan and india will cause such commotion that pipelines to pakistan, india and china will be impossible to build… a situation that benefits the neocons and their Project for the New American Century.

nobody will admit that neocons believe they have enough juice to create their own reality, and and also believe they will be able to maintain their version of reality by using another staple of neocon philosophy, strauss and his “noble” lies.

and you guys swallow it, hook line and sinker.

good enough

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive
 

“the big question now for Pakistan is whether the Indians can be trusted there 700,000 indian troops occupying kashmir and many RAW agents”
- Posted by Bilal

Thanks for enlightening us all with your views. Now you can go back to your madrasaa & watch MNN (Mullah News Network) or listen to some MBC (Mullah Broadcasting Center). Lmao!

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive
 

Myra,

The India Pak relationship is always in focus no matter who is in power in both countries. For me, the question is different. Few months or few years from now when India and Pak open bilateral dialogue will Kayani & Zardari own up to the promises made by Musharraf? Or, will Zaradari and Kayani renegotiate from scratch? The answer to this will set the direction and the timeline to the solution of border disputes between India and Pakistan.

Despite unprecedented aid to Pakistan, the US cannot convince Pak army to go on the offensive against anti-India terrorist organizations. These terrorist groups are seen as assets which have served Pakistan well. It’s unfortunate but a reality. Like that in the past, Pakistan may secretly divert some US aid to anti-India and anti-Afghan terrorist groups. Pakistan knows controlling terrorist menance comes handy during peace negotiations with India or Afghanistan.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive
 

Myra,

Here is the link to a video posted by NYU school of law. It discusses the tensions and critical relations between India and Pak over Kashmir. The length of the video is over an hour followed by some good Q&A.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc6rMpDHE 9Y

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive
 

Wadosy

—You are stuck! (oil stuck?)
“india was used by the neocons to restrict chinese access to the persian gulf…”
—China headache.

“ and you will even begin to realize that india was used to restrict its own access to energy…”

—As it is india has no access to this so called energy that you’re referring to & anyways there were sanctions on India since last three decades, so India loses nothing but in an sudden change of global permutations & combinations stands to gain…or worst status quo … above all – what if by the end of the comin decade there’s an alternative energy source discovered rendering oil irrelevant?

Posted by anup | Report as abusive
 

!!!Breaking News!!!

—US accuses Pakistan of using their monetary aid to make nukes at unknown destination!

Posted by anup | Report as abusive
 

Here is the link, that states that Pakistan has been using the US aid to build more nukes.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/18/world/ asia/18nuke.html?hp

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive
 

A murky situation, but Pakistan is India’s foreign policy challenge. Atleast the US tries to manage its relationship with Pakistan one way or the other. India seems to just leave the status quo. So its upto India to deal with the challenges it faces or let events happen as they do. rather than adopting a reactive policy india needs a proactive policy to deal with pakistan. there needs to be a sense of urgency to resolve outstanding issues or wait for a war. Without this, South Asia is a disaster waiting to happen.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Umair,

Your views, as always, are laughable. I’ll leave at that.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive
 

Af-Pak –> Pak-Af –> Fak-Pa

We are transitioning very fast to the 3rd (Fak-Pa) stage. Sure, India will talk in the 4th stage if that ever happens!!!

Posted by David | Report as abusive
 

Umair,

Lack of proactive initiative from India towards Pakistan? Certainly not. I take some liberty of digressing from the topic. Here is a brief of recent history of Indo Pak peace process:

1) Year 1999. India started the peace process with Pakistan when the Indian PM of the day visited Lahore and signed peace deal with Nawaz Sharif. Months later, Musharraf shredded the deal by attacking India at Kargil. The jury is still out if Nawaz Sharif knew about it when he signed peace deal with India. The peace process was suspended.

2) Year 2006, Havana. Musharraf pleads with the Indian PM to restart the composite dialogue. He declares Pakistan will not allow its soil for terrorists threatening India. The Indian PM buys the argument. The back channel diplomacy begins and the secret bi-lateral talks gather steam.

3) Year 2007. The Indo-Pak bilateral peace process has made significant progress and both countries are ‘very close’ to a permanent settlement over border disputes. However, Musharraf realizes that he has not equipped the people of Pakistan to sell the peace agreement to them. He asks for more time. Soon after, Musharraf finds himself in a political storm over Lal Masjid and loses his office. The composite dialogue is temporarily suspended till the new govt in Pakistan finds its feet.

4) Year 2008. Zardari announces his desire for peace towards India. Zardari joins the list of his successors including Musharraf, Nawaz Sharif and the late Benazir Bhutto. India welcomes Zaradari’s statement. In return, LeT attacks Mumbai and the relations go in cold storage. Once again, terrorist in Pakistan are proved to be behind the attacks after initial denials from Pakistan.

I assume someone from Pakistan will soon suggest a ‘new’ Indo-Pak peace approach only to sink that initiative later. The Pak army and terrorist combine will hold on to their card of “India threat” like a baby to his thumb; sucking the Pakistan state dry with billions of dollars.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive
 

The clown is back with: “So its upto India to deal with the challenges it faces or let events happen as they do.”

India is already dealing with its myriad of challenges on all fronts.

“rather than adopting a reactive policy india needs a proactive policy to deal with pakistan.”

It is not a reactive policy. It is “minding our own business policy.” If your country can leave us alone, we won’t even look in your direction. You can do whatever you want inside your country – build up enriched Uranium, kill Taliban or sack judges, topple Prime Ministers, salute the new general in power, whatever. It’s none of our business. But stay out and we won’t bother you. We only respond when your jobless militants are promised of cash and sent in with arms and training to cause disruption to normal life. Do not make us pro-active. Do not even wish for it. If we get pro-active, you will be fighting each other settling border disputes between your five nations. And your nukes will not do us any harm. So there is no need to tell us about it. You leave us alone, and we leave you alone. How about that for a start? May be we can think of diplomatic relations after about 25 years? Assuming your country will still be in one piece, that is.

“there needs to be a sense of urgency to resolve outstanding issues or wait for a war. Without this, South Asia is a disaster waiting to happen.”

We have no outstanding issues with you other than the terrorist training camps, housing of mafia dons from India and justice for Mumbai attacks. If you do not want to do it, well all right. We will move on. But there will be no hand shakes without the above issues resolved. You do not need us for that. They are in your country. Fix them first and then we will think of diplomatic efforts. The only disaster waiting to happen is Pakistan’s imminent collapse. Just because your military is fighting its own creation under US pressure, it doesn’t mean you people have changed. US will be there for a long time. Don’t worry. They are going to cleanse your country from inside out. We are in no hurry. We have our tasks ahead of us, like forming the next government and moving on to stabilize our economy that has been hit by the global down turn. You guys deal with your Taliban and refugees for now. Good luck. There is no other issue right now.

 

anup says… “india has no access to this so called energy that you’re referring to…”india oil imports
http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/India/i mages/India%20oil%20imports%20by%20sourc e%20(mm).gif

from the wall street journal: “India’s crude oil import bill rose 16.9% to $93 billion in the year ended March 31. Crude oil is India’s biggest import item in money terms.”
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB12426461 0877130185.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive
 
 
 

anup says… “india has no access to this so called energy that you’re referring to…”

so now we see from the wall street journal that india spends more on oil imports than other import.

the graphs show where india’s oil imports come from: the persian gulf, by an overwhelming majority.

http://images.google.com/images?gbv=2&hl =en&um=1&q=+site:www.eia.doe.gov+india+o il+imports

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive
 

since my posts containing the uncooperative neocon urls are “awaiting moderation”, here’s the snip i took from the wall street journal article:

“India’s crude oil import bill rose 16.9% to $93 billion in the year ended March 31. Crude oil is India’s biggest import item in money terms.”

the bad thing about being an apiring neocon and “creating your own reality…” is this: you’ve got to be diligent in making sure all your propoganda servants are on the same page.

in this particular case, the EAI and the wall street journal are cooperating by making it diffucult to access their articles and graphics, but their stuff can still be accessed.

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive
 

nikhil posts a link from the new york times…

“Here is the link, that states that Pakistan has been using the US aid to build more nukes.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/18/world/ asia/18nuke.html?hp”

…perhaps forgetting that the new york times was the agenda-setting news organ that lied america into iraq.

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive
 

Nikhil you wrote:

Here is the link to a video posted by NYU school of law. It discusses the tensions and critical relations between India and Pak over Kashmir. The length of the video is over an hour followed by some good Q&A.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc6rMpDHE 9Y

Many thanks for this link. I just watched the video. It’s very good and would recommend it to other people here.

I noticed the speakers in the video made a couple of references to the Punjabi-based groups becoming “untethered” in the sense that they are becoming a threat to both Pakistan and India. That seems to be a subject well worth exploring, all the more so since all attention has been focused on the Taliban in recent weeks, and as a result other militant groups have been overlooked.

I covered this in the analysis I just wrote about India-Pakistan relations (and which I mentioned in the blog):

http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-Afgha nistan-Pakistan/idUSTRE54G0T520090517?sp =true

You also asked whether the reported 2007 framework agreement would be honoured by Musharraf’s successors. Does that not depend on whether those in power in Pakistan feel they are able to win domestic support for it? Musharraf presumably thought he had enough power at the time to force his generals and the general public to accept it.

Myra

Myra

Posted by Myra MacDonald | Report as abusive
 

One of those stock articles were you can basically change the names of the mentioned players and it will still look like a good article!
Journalist need to stop thinking that the only way they can grab peoples attention is by delivering bad news. The election results in India has been nothing but good news to people in India and Pakistan. The last Manmohan Singh government though it was fragile showed remarkable restraint and maturity post Mumbai attack. Its laughable to read how such a government with further more stability and mandate is being predicted to do a complete 180 degree turn on very the foreign policy which could be attributed to its better than expected election results

Posted by sam | Report as abusive
 

@given the neocons’ goal of dismantling pakistan, whose interest is served by incidents like mumbai and the london underground and the parliament, especially when those incidents are blamed, by a neocon-compliant media, on pakistan?
- Posted by wadosy

Wrong blog to discuss the assumptions. Run your blog and give a link. Waste of time!

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

you cant answer the question, so you want to banish the person who asks the question.

typical neocon tactics, demonstrated daily by the neocon press in america, which has been a handmaiden to the neocon project from september 11, 2001.

seems reasonable that, if pakistan is being blamed for attacks on india, and those attacks stir up trouble which will advance the PNAC project, the question “who benefits?” is relevant, especially in light of the role false flags attacks have played in history.

but you neocon kommissars cant afford to answer the question… you cant even afford to think about it.

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive
 

Guys,

Wadosy is a software virus unleashed by the ISI to irritate Indians :-) Just ignore it.

 

India has always been a good friend to the U.S. – but don’t count on the U.S. to do anything but follow its own interests. Protect yourselves, and my sympathies for having Pakistan as a neighbor.

Posted by Michele | Report as abusive
 

Notably here, none of the Paks have commentated on separatist Lones defeat and sweep by Chief Minister Omars coalition in Kashmir which strongly indicated peoples (kashmiris) determination to build and excel than be divisive and destroy. They can clearly see Pak and realize in what lies in their future should they align with Pak. Indeed, their eyes are open.
US will be disinclined to move away from its policy of stressing on selectively excising the anti-American outfits, carefully ignoring the other terror outfits like LeT and JeM etc. It will be lulled into this false security in the form of military offensive against Taliban. The offensive will cease soon claiming victory and the trucks shall roll out to barracks or much better to its eastern border with a perceived increased threat from its neighbor. Well, now, Pak has received the vital checks to see it thru for some time. That is the tacit understanding, it appears, with which US is embracing Pak.
So, India and US part ways here for any collective effort to handle Paks turmoil. Naturally India will ignore US request for troop withdrawal. As we all can see the Paks are irreversibly brain washed about India, Hindus and sure thing Kashmir, thanks to their hate campaign thru civic text books taught in middle and high schools. Even if Pak administration realizes the futility to pursue 60 yr old failed agenda and would want to lean towards an amicable solution for the territorial dispute, laymen in the street may not support the govt. It is the latter ground reality for govt. not to want to appear weak in the eyes of the electorate that leads to stalemate. So long as the donors send billions ob $$, Pak will continue to boast about its pseudo rich living standards( as some posts indiacte here) and extend their antiindian violence. The US dollars are injurious to health of Pak and thru Paks actions to its neighbors. The permanent solution is as syed Jamaluddin prescribed. See the link. http://dividepakistan.blogspot.com/

 

Sam writes
Manmohan Singh government though it was fragile showed remarkable restraint and maturity post Mumbai attack.

When will you stop to call it maturity- is it with repeatetions of mumbai in delhi, hyderabad, chennai and
ahmedabad ……..or.. .. until your own family is annihilated. It could be your family next sam.

 

Some funny stuff….which ain’t so funny after all!

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index. jhtml?videoId=226596&title=apakalypse-no w&byDate=true

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive
 

Umair spews verbal diarrhea once more:

“A murky situation, but Pakistan is India’s foreign policy challenge. Atleast the US tries to manage its relationship with Pakistan one way or the other. India seems to just leave the status quo. So its upto India to deal with the challenges it faces or let events happen as they do. rather than adopting a reactive policy india needs a proactive policy to deal with pakistan. there needs to be a sense of urgency to resolve outstanding issues or wait for a war. Without this, South Asia is a disaster waiting to happen.”

Response, Umair, how about Pakistan just fxxks off and leaves India alone. We want nothing to do with you, you can do what ever you want in your country, quit your terrorism on us, quit your proxy wars, quit your evil use of your religion to use poor people to die in a religio-political sick-minded mental agenda to wreak havoc on India.

Pakistan is the problem in the subcontinent and must be fixed. Before you guys want anything from us, get your house cleaned up, clean behind your ears, clean under your bed, and don’t forget to brush your teeth and wipe your axx, because over here in India, we can smell the stench of corruption, agitation and trouble from the liar punjabi’s in Pakistan.

Again, goof off and leave India alone, we want nothing to do with you. Pakistan is insincere about real peace and has too many of its own troubles to deal in a mature and honest way with the democratic, stable and secular India. India can do what ever it wants in its country, it is none of your business, it is of no concern to you.

Any more time wasted on Kashmir, don’t forget, Baloch, Sindh and now the Pashtuns, eventually they will turn on the parasitic punjabi’s in a heartbeat, when the right conditions present themselves. That is a truth, which you scheming and conniving liars in uniform in Rawalpindi and Islamabad don’t get, the world is on to you and watching your every move, as is the U.S.

Unless there is another Pakistani non-state actor attack on India, India want’s nothing to do with you.

You punjabi’s need to get a real job and find something productive to do for humanity. Have any of you Fauji’s there ever made a decent honest living without Haram money? IMF cash, opium money and U.S. beggar bowl money is all Haram. I have nothing but respect for the rest of Pakistani’s outside of Punjab.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

Wadosy,

Please read the question again.

“Which country is amongst the largest receivers of neocon money?”

Israel is the largest, Pakistan and Egypt are also “amongst the largest receivers”. Also from what I have read, following the latest US Aid package of $1.5 bn a year over the next 5 years and Zardari’s successful begging bowl mission to neocon land, Pakistan will possibly become the largest beneficiery of US Aid. As I said that needs confirmation.

I don’t wish to get into a slanging match here, because its all so pointless. But it surprises me why just about 10% of the comments actually pertain to the topic of the blog. Read any topic and it ends up becoming a tu-tu-mein-mein affair unfortunately. I am equally at fault. Anyway have a nice day.

 

Wadosy,
I just fail to understand your neocon rant. Yes India has a huge oil import bill and everyone knows about it, there is no secret in this. The government covers this by charging duties and taxes on one hand and then provides subsidy on it for certain petroleum products upto a level or when oil prices go extremely high. Its a very complex economics there.
Moreover, RIL just finished its Jamnagar oil refinery which is one of the largest oil refineries and since it has been provided a special economic zone, the whole production from the unit is set to be exported to other countries. In other words, India buys raw materials and sells the finished product thereby making a good fortune for itself. Even though the company is a private one (owned by Indians) but the government gets its due in terms of taxes and duties.
And buddy, every country that is growing needs energy resources. So it is hardly surprising that India has a huge oil import bills. Also, if India has a huge oil import buill then it means it has access to this oil from somewhere… it is buying it from somewhere.. right?
As I said business is business… which also means no one is going to provide free oil and gas to India.
And for your information, India also has been thinking of getting into agreements with Bangladesh for gas production and import, wherein it helps Bangladesh setup gas production untis from where India can buy gas at concessional rates.
Having nuclear energy supplies is a policy of diversifying your interests and not putting your eggs in one basket. Its prudent planning for the future.
And since you keep harping about non-availability of energy resources from middle east to India. I gave you the breakup UAE is one of our largets trading partners. So all your words stand for zilch.
And yes, this is not the right forum for discussing energy and neo-con tactics (if any) may be we can discuss it somewhere else. Nobody is asking you to shutup but just that for a meaningfull discussion without regressing from the main topic, (which always remains the blog post for which comments are being put), it will be better if a different forum is found/created by those interested in it.

As far as this topic is concerned. I sincerely believe, its in the best interest of all the countries in the region to have a dialouge and sort the issues but before that there has to be comprehensive confidence building measures.
Pakistan should understand that India has no intention of hurting the growth prospects of Pakistan. Kashmir is a contentious issue and can not be solved in a day.
It can not expect that India will give away Indian administered Kashmir to it and similalry India can not exepct Pakistan to handover PoK to India. As far as an independent Kashmir is concerned, it is not a feasible option as there won’t be anything apart from tourism and some agricultural trade to sustain the region. Moreover, neither Pakistan nor India will ever agree to it.
So it is best that talk contnue on Kashmir while maintaining status quo on the issue and other aspects of confidence building like trade, commerce and people exchange programs can contnue but for that to happen will Pakistan guarantee that its soil will not be used by terrorists, wheteher they be state or non-state actors? Will Pakistan stop using terrorism as a state weapon against India?

@ Mauryan, I appreciate your views but can you please stop calling names. It doesn’t look good coming from a fellow Indian, our culture is not like that. I hope you will take this in a positive manner. Don’t lose your cool buddy. :)

Posted by Aman | Report as abusive
 

since india is such a good friend of israeli america, we must assume that india is willing to knuckle under to PNAC’s global hegemony, hegemony that supposedly will dictate a diminishing share of global energy allocated to india as global production continues to fall and israeli american military requirements grow larger, as israeli america continues its efforts to secure more energy and energy transport routes for itself.

israel is already the largest recipient of american aid, and a good portion of the half-a-trillion american military budget is consumed in wars to secure israel, but that’s okay since, in order to preserve and protect israel, america itself must be preserved and protected, which will require even more american control of oil and transport routes, at the point of a gun if necessary.

if india is willing to curtail its economic growth in service of this neocon project, so be it.

Posted by wadosy | Report as abusive
 
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