Pakistan: Now or Never?
Perspectives on Pakistan
How much time does Pakistan have?
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Ahmed Rashid’s article on Pakistan in the New York Review of Books makes for an alarming read. Excerpts do not do justice to it, as you have to read the whole thing to understand why he thinks Pakistan really is on the brink, but here are a few:
“American officials are in a concealed state of panic, as I observed during a recent visit to Washington at the time when 17,000 additional troops were being dispatched to Afghanistan. The Obama administration unveiled its new Afghan strategy on March 27, only to discover that Pakistan is the much larger security challenge, while US options there are far more limited.”
“The last two years have bought some hope in the growth of the middle class, an articulate and increasingly influential civil society made up partly of urban professionals and publicly involved women. Most Pakistanis are not Islamic extremists and believe in moderate and spiritual forms of Islam, including Sufism. However, Pakistan is now reaching a tipping point. There is a chronic failure of leadership, whether by civilian politicians or the army. President Zardari’s decision to invade Swat in early May came only after pressure was applied by the Obama administration and the army and the government had been left with no other palatable options. But with the Taliban opening new fronts, it will soon become impossible for the army to respond to the multiple threats it faces on so many geographically distant battlefields. The Taliban’s campaigns to assassinate politicians and administrators have demoralized the government.”
“The Obama administration can provide money and weapons but it cannot recreate the state’s will to resist the Taliban and pursue more effective policies. Pakistan desperately needs international aid, but its leaders must first define a strategy that demonstrates to its own people and other nations that it is willing to stand up to the Taliban and show the country a way forward.”
There has been much alarmist talk this year about Pakistan, notably with U.S. adviser David Kilcullen saying in March that the Pakistani state could collapse within six months, followed by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton saying in April that Pakistan posed a “mortal threat” to the world. Most of that talk has been dismissed as exaggerated, including by Juan Cole in his blog Informed Comment and other analysts. The country has a strong civil society, which only in March took to the streets to demand an independent judiciary and the reinstatement of the Chief Justice. It has a powerful military, and whatever its critics say about its policies, the Pakistan Army is intensely patriotic and is hardly likely to hand over control of the country to Islamist militants who do not even believe in the existence of the nation state.
Yet looking at the flood of refugees in Pakistan — above one million and still rising, according to the UNHCR — you do have to wonder how much time Pakistan has to right itself. President Asif Ali Zardari says the current offensive in the Swat valley is just the start of an operation that will take the army deep into the tribal areas bordering Afghanistan. How many more internal refugees can the country cope with, especially given that it traces its current instability to the three million refugees who flooded in from Afghanistan after the Soviet invasion in 1979?
Part of the problem is that some of the solutions for Pakistan lie in the long term. To the west, an end to the fighting in Afghanistan would stop instability washing over into Pakistan. But no one expects a political settlement in Afghanistan any time soon. To the east, peace with India would boost the economy by encouraging trade and give the Pakistan Army an opportunity to readjust its mindset away from seeing India as an existential threat. But India remains wary of Pakistan after last November’s attack on Mumbai and any moves made by the newly re-elected government of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to reduce tension are likely to be slow and tentative.
If Pakistan is indeed, as Rashid writes, reaching a tipping point, it does not have the time to wait for long-term solutions.
(Photos: Refugees caught up in a dust storm/Faisal Mahmood)
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Wondering if Pakistan will allow none other than…India to step in and come to its aid? Wondering if India would offer? Will India and Pakistan shock the world and come to terms with eachother via a grand bargain?
The world turns on a dime…
Myra,
Pakistan is not a failed state and it’s not going to fail. At best, it can be called a ‘rogue’ state which is now realizing it has more mess – most of its own doing – than initially expected.
Interestingly, the Pakistani establishment wants $1.5 billion for next five years from the US but not the conditions attached by the Congress to it. The economic condition in donor countries is tight and there will be some delay in honoring commitments.
One can never say how things will go. There is a strong potential for fissures to erupt from various points and engulfing the whole state or critical parts of it. Or things can change for good. There must be a reason why Pakistan is cranking up its nuclear weapons grade enrichment. Pakistan cannot and should not try to stop its initiative until it is complete. It has to eliminate the Taliban for good, whatever may be the loss of lives and resources. There is no looking back. If they fail to do so and allow the Taliban to escape or leave some for regrouping, it will bite them hard. Pashtuns who make up the Taliban generally do not forgive and now Pakistanis have become an enemy to them. So they might as well go all out and wipe off the Taliban entirely.
I feel really sorry for those million refugees who have been displaced from their homes and are bearing the brunt of the war and the weather. I pray for their well being.
I really feel sorry for Innocent Pakistani people who are suffering lot. Whatever other people say but they have to handle it. Let all people unit together and kill the disease ( terror ) from the beautifull place SWAT.
Pakistanis keep insisting that Taliban-style fundamentalism can’t move beyond the tribal areas and into the big cities.
Uhhh, does anyone remember the Red Mosque siege, which triggered a mini-war in Islamabad? Afterwards, stunned Pakistanis were asking themselves how those people could have smuggled so many heavy arms into the Red Mosque.
Let’s stop playing a game of spin-doctoring and damage control, and rather see the problem for the dire situation it is. Trying to downplay the threat will only encourage the complacency that has allowed the problem to become so severe.
Pakistan has lost a golden chance of improving relations with india after the mumbai attacks , by punishing the culprits . They threw that away . I suspect the civilian government might have done more , but the army held it back . Now i dont think india should touch pakistan even with a 60 foot pole . Let them try and put their own house in order . A destabilized pakistan is in indias interest . It is good for india if they are busy fighting amongst themselves .
Personally I think all this talk of Pakistan collapsing etc is as much hype as the dooms day predictions over swine flu.
Pakistani leadership is the predominant cause. One can run with the hare and hunt with the hound only so long. Though it has had its fair share of problems about type of governance, the root cause, in my opinion is the absence of leadership which has a global and far sighted approach. There seem to be no long term goals or planning. If there is, it has never been shared with its people let alone the world.
The other problem is its India phobia. Its time to move on, just as India did inits approach to Pakistan. Good governance is not about playing one upmanship. The man in the street is becoming more and more conscious of his rights and aspirations and is no longer going to fall prey to martial music, jingoism and bombast.
So though I think Pakistan is not about to turn turtle just yet, it is going to witness prolonged upheaval in the absence of a firm, dedicated and far sighted leadership.
US aid to Pakistan financing Chinese military! Feel sorry for US tax payers, homeless, job less folks!
China pushes J-10A fighter for export to Pakistan, Egypt
http://www.upi.com/Security_Industry/200 9/05/19/China-pushes-J-10A-fighter-for-e xport-to-Pakistan-Egypt/UPI-165212427487 80/
Alethia
About your desire and hope for Indias benevolent intervention- what do you mean India coming to Paks rescue? very intriguing indeed. Explain . India doesn’t hate Pak minus terror and proxy war. Forget rhetoric tell us what it should do now.
I saw your posts on Pak blogs as well. You sympathize with Paks a lot, may be you interact with them more than with Indians. You ought to identify underlying problems with Pak also. Religious hatred and narrow mindedness at national level is the source of problem in my view.
Myra,
Pak will have this internal turmoil and civil unrest for a longtime. It has everything to do with the religious hatred with which their school children are brain washed. Impending collapse and Taliban take over is a myth. Feel sad for swat and Tamil refugees.
Dara:
I agree with you in that it’s going to take a while for good governance to set in in Pakistan. And as the adage goes: it’s better to have an inferior civilian government than an excellent military one. At least there is hope that democracy will eventually work out the kinks. It took India several years to evolve into a dedicated and far sighted leadership. It will take no less in Pakistan.
If the question is, “How much time does Pakistan have?” The answer is, “that depends.” Pakistan is already in turmoil. It’s a basketcase which no sane tourist would visit and no sane financier would invest in. Yet, its Pakistanis first and foremost who are paying the price for their government’s incompetence. Pakistan is already a perpetually failing state. Yet, it will never become a failed state. So Pakistan has plenty of time before it becomes Somalia or Afghanistan. But if the aspirations of Pakistanis are any higher than that (for example if it wanted to compete economically with India for example or aspired to be the Switzerland of South Asia) it has already run out of time. It will take decades for Pakistan to recover from the current turmoil…and the rebuilding can only start when the turmoil ends. I am afraid Pakistan is in for a rough ride, the very end of which might see the end of Pakistan as we know it today.
Sorry Myra. There are some days I am pessimistic about Pakistan and it’s prospects….sadly the frequency of those days is increasing!
It took India several years to evolve into a dedicated and far sighted leadership. It will take no less in Pakistan.
- Posted by Alethia
Dehyphenate please. The two formed separate nations same day from (prepartion) United India.Just Over 6 decades ago.
Im waiting for your an explanation on your expressed views on India coming into Paks rescue.
The biggest problem with Pakistan is the Army which is corrupt, consumes a lot of the resources that could go into things like education. The Army has supported religious parties and terrorist organizations to further their hold on the country and destabilize neighboring countries. The politicians that have come to power are as corrupt and kow tow to the Army. I dont see any hope for the country till the Army’s power is diminished and Pakistan gets new less corrupt politicians.
Much of the problems Pakistan today face are a direct result of outside intervention in the region. Hillary Clinton yesterday acknolwledged the ‘incoherent’ US policies towards Pakistan for the last 30 years. The Soviet intervention in Afghanistan and resulting US involvement over a prolonged period of time proved very disastotours. As of Pakista’s future, there should remain no doubts. Pakistan, a developing country and having its share of problems like any other country, is fully capable of dealing with challenges.
Pakistan wants to buy $1 billion German Sub to fight Taliban?
Pakistan’s humanitarian crisis to last through December: US
Seems like Pakistan doesn’t care or doesn’t want to help the displaced people. Not Pakistan’s problem. US, UN and FoDP will feed and shelter these people. Pakistani generals are busy planning their toy list and next war with India. What a waste of aid money!
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/Repo rt-German-Submarine-Deal-With-Pakistan-o n-Hold-05432/
So Pakistan’s ambassador was probably addressing English-speaking Pakistanis as well as Americans when he assured Mr. Stewart on Wednesday that “the important thing is that Pakistan does control most of Pakistan.” After dismissing the Taliban as “a nuisance,” he then went on to explain who was to blame for the fact that Pakistan does not now control all of Pakistan: Ronald Reagan. Near the start of the interview (which is embedded below), Mr. Haqqani said:
What we are dealing with is a lot of debris from the past. Ronald Reagan thought that the mujahideen in Afghanistan were going to be the moral equivalent of America’s founding fathers. The Taliban are just the children of those moral equivalents, which have become a problem not only for Pakistan and Afghanistan but the whole world.
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05 /14/pakistans-daily-show-diplomacy/?scp =3&sq=Pakistan%20&st=cse
Pakistan’s internal problems can be traced to the inherent contradiction of its troubled foundation. In 1947, Pakistan was carved from British India on account that Muslims cannot accept the rule of the numerically superior Hindus. This irrationality stem from Islam’s traditional characterization of Hindus as dirty polytheists and idol worshippers even more lowly than Jews and Christians, who were at least considered “People of the Book.” Pakistan declared itself to be an “Islamic State,” and from that point onwards, it has behaved in a confrontational and hostile manner towards its neighbor.
The trouble for Pakistan is that an Islamic state is fundamentally anti-democratic. You can have one or the other, but you cannot have both. Democracy is based upon reason, religion is based on dogma. Democracy places high value on separation between religion and state, moderation, tolerance, diversity and plurality. Religion calls for blind faith, and the imposition of such outdated ideas as women being inferior to men, the non-believer being inferior to the believer. Thus, whereas India has continually existed as a stable democracy, Pakistan has been caught in a vicious, endless cycle of corrupt pseudo-democracies to military dictatorships.
India has an unabashedly secular constitution where minorities have full protection of the law. The current Prime Minister of India is a Sikh, while the last President of India was a Muslim. India is a pluralist and tolerant state with much greater similarity to the west than its former brethens in Pakistan. Demographically speaking, more than 15% of India belong to religious minorities. In Pakistan, this number is only 3%, despite the fact that prior to partition, the province of Punjab comprised of as many as 20 to 25% Hindus and Sikhs. Many of these minorities were forced to migrate to India at the partition. Even more tragically, the flight of Hindus, Sikhs and Christians continue today as they have been subjects of targeted violence.
Actually, the comparison between India and Pakistan today is beginning to mirror that between North and South Korea. In both instances, a former united entity was split into two ideological parts. Initially, both parts shared roughly the same standard of living. Due to different decisions taken by each part, one has emerged as a successful modern state, the other a failure and a constant threat to world security. In the case of Korea, the difference was between capitalist democracy versus communist totalitarianism, and in former British India, the difference is between secular democracy versus Islamic totalitarianism. In each instant, the tolerate, moderate party is the winner while the hateful party is the loser.
I don’t see how Pakistan can emerge from its current impasse unless the fundamental character of the state changes. Pakistan has to embrace modernity. It has to completely reject the notion that it is an Islamic state, and embrace the ideas of plurality, gender equality, religious tolerance, and peace with its neighbor India. Unfortunately, it appears the forces promoting greater secularism are losing the battle against the voices calling for more Islam. More Islam means less education for women. It also means more radicalism in the long term, as educated women empowered by jobs are a moderating force in developed societies. Uneducated women are more likely to be confined in the home, subject to the whims of her husband, have multiple children without the means to take proper care of them, causing even more civil strife. Hence, Pakistan is lurching dangerously backward with no end in sight. The phenomenon of Islamization, unfortunately, is not only pertinent to Pakistan, but with few exceptions, the entire Islamic world, especially the countries in the Middle East.
It’s Rwanda now, not Somalia!
Yesterday, CNN (AC360) was comparing Pakistan to Rwanda. Somalians must be feeling better now!
Today, BBC reports about the amazing success of Pakistani army in Buner. Taliban still owns SWAT. I am proud of Pakistani army (don’t forget, it is the seventh largest military in the world and got nukes!)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/80 59236.stm
I want to cry out loud when I see the displaced Pakistanis.
But when I want to laugh out loud when I see this joker or his alikes on TV, extorting US!
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05 /14/pakistans-daily-show-diplomacy/?scp =3&sq=Pakistan%20&st=cse
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoft v/2009/05/15/gps.musharraf.war.money.cnn ?iref=videosearch
If Pakistan’s internal war with the Taliban prolongs over 6 months, then it does not have much chance or time to survive as a nation. It depends upon how quickly their military executes the task of eliminating the Taliban. And the Taliban has its sympathizers in Pakistan’s intelligence, military and civilian establishments as well as amongst non-state actors. So many might have escaped into the hinterlands of Pakistan. Taliban’s strategy of war is to duck when attacked, thereby giving a false indication of a defeated group. Once the dust settles, they begin to attack specific targets and cause continuous irritation. Karachi might be the next place where they will take the battle to. Quetta might be another place. No one wants to take defeat. Revenge is always planned and attempts made to execute it. Taliban definitely will lose out to the Pakistani military in the short run with their territory lost. But they will avenge that by not letting the refugees return home and making the refugee crisis get out of control. And they will attack in other parts of the country in collusion with the other jihadist groups. Their attempt will be to isolate the Pashtuns and Balochis from the mainstream Pakistan, now that their back is to the wall. And Al Qaeda, for its own survival might get back into the game and wreak havoc. What I foresee is Pashtun defection from Pakistan’s military at the first sign of weakness. They are just waiting for that moment. The US and its allies can give intelligence information to the ISI to thwart such plans. But so long as the ISI has elements sympathetic to the Taliban, things will begin to get out of control. So whatever victory that the military and Zardari declare will be short lived. The war began in 2001. And it is only seeing the battle field expand. And this war will go on until Pakistan is completely eaten up by it. The damage will be enormous. Pakistani military might try a desperate war with India or provide nuclear material to Iran to escalate the war beyond their borders. This way they know they are going to burn. But they could try to take others with it and make it really hard for the US to do anything. The US will not dare venture into a war with Pakistan. Or Pakistani military has realized that their nuke facilities are going to be forcibly destroyed by the US at some point and hence they are speeding up production of fissile material. Whatever it may be, 2009 is not going to be good for Pakistan as I see it. And it is going to get only worse beyond that.
Under the capable leadership of Manmohan Singh,I think India is positioning itself to have a historic reonciliation with Pakistan. Yes, the religious hatred of the fundamentalists in Pakistan is very vexing, is spreading to the local population and must be brought under control. Yes, the current government of Pakistan is a bit wobbly, but it’s a democracy-with cooperation between it and the army, something unheard of in the past. But an important reminder must be stated: the Frontier Province was always problematic for NorthWest India (now Pakistan). It is not a new phenomenon. Through the centuries invaders and militants have been constantly sweeping from Central Asia onto the Subcontinent. And it’s no different today as the core of al Qaeda is comprised of people from as far away as Chechnya and as proximal as Uzbekistan. A second reminder is that India would like to have the Subcontinent for Subcontinental countries. Even if that means accomodating Pakistan on some points and no doubt India will ask for its own accomodations from Pakistan. Ideally, India would like to dominate, but it will compromise in order to keep foreign forces out.
I believe that there may be some motivation in India to ensure the independence of the region, whichever countries we are talking about, from the forces which are not indigenous to the region.
David
“Pakistani generals are busy planning their toy list and next war with India.”
-Officially India is enemy no.1 and anaylst are predicting there is a very real chance of of another 26/11 type terrorist strike on India. I am sure Pakistan’s military planners want to deploy every radar, fighter jet, tank and submarine in its place before hostilities begin. And the siezed composite dialogue and prevailing tense atmosphere for last 8 months between India and Pakistan is very evident. You must also know Pakistan is rapidly adding nuclear weapons to the already 60-100 warheads, so both nuclear and conventional capability is being enhanced as the threat increases. You dont even know what you are playing with.
Mauryan:
“If Pakistan’s internal war with the Taliban prolongs over 6 months, then it does not have much chance or time to survive as a nation.”
-O forget it, more scare mongering. So who the hell are you? some self proclaimed fortune teller? I heard from people 6 months before that Pakistan will not survive, I hear again the same thing. lol
read the following stated by Gen, Ashfaq Kayani:
April 24, 2009
ISPR Press Release
“Army chief Gen. Kayani stated that 170 million people under a democratic dispensation, fully backed by the Army are capable of dealing with evey challenge. He renounced the outside powers and the questions being raised about the country’s future.”
So I am glad your positive outlook for atleast 2009, but would also like you to take it easy 2010, 2011, 2025, 2050 Pakistan’s ability of dealing with challenges have kept increasing with the passage of time.
Umair:
I agree with you. The toughness of Pakistan is constantly underestimated.
NO satellites please! We are Pakistanis! We like to hide things but we didn’t pay enough to Chinese to teach us how to hide things!
So please believe us when we say, whatever we say. We are allies and partners.
http://pakobserver.net/200905/19/news/to pstories07.asp
“It’s Rwanda now, not Somalia!
Yesterday, CNN (AC360) was comparing Pakistan to Rwanda. Somalians must be feeling better now!”
My sincere apologies to people of Rwanda and Somalia. I didn’t mean to disparage your country.
-Officially India is enemy no.1 and anaylst are predicting there is a very real chance of of another 26/11 type terrorist strike on India…..
- Posted by Umair
Your comments are really quite hilarious. Other countries have official emblems & seals but I guess your country has ‘official enemies’. You actually reflect the belligerent mindset of your army officers & generals. I’m sure at this time, all you guys are actually hoping for a 26/11 encore, so that India responds & you guys can stop slitting each others throats & rally behind ‘death to India slogans’. You, immaturely, don’t realize the consequences for your faltering country which is already going down the toilet in a mad rush. And yeah I know, this is where you’ll say ‘we have nukes’. Don’t worry my friend, the world is just itching to take control of your nukes & sooner or later you’ll have to take the bumper sticker which says ‘We have Nukes’ off your head. Your quote of your General Kayani is also quite funny. I guess everyone in Pakistan, from a 5 yr old to a General, parrot the same blabber…170 million united…700,000 strong army…caution to outside forces blah blah blah. Now we know where you get it from. Lmao!
Mortal
Here is the complete statement, let me know the funny part:
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No 104/2009-ISPR Dated: April 24, 2009
Rawalpindi – April 24, 2009: The Chief of Army Staff (COAS), General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani today chaired an operational meeting at the General Headquarters, Rawalpindi.
While addressing the participants the COAS stated that he was aware of the doubts being voiced about the intent as well as the capability of the Army to defeat the militancy in the Country. He made it clear that Pakistan Army never has and never will hesitate to sacrifice, whatever it may take, to ensure safety and wellbeing of people of Pakistan and Country’s territorial integrity.
The COAS stated that operational pause, meant to give the reconciliatory forces a chance, must not be taken for a concession to the militants. He declared that Army’s rank and file has resolve to fight to eliminate the militants, who endanger the lives of peaceful citizens of the Country and challenge the writ of the State. He reassured the people of Pakistan that with their support, Army is determined to root out the menace of terrorism from the society. It will not allow the militants to dictate terms to the Government or impose their way of life on the civil society of Pakistan.
He condemned pronouncements by outside powers raising doubts on the future of the Country. A Country of 170 M resilient people under a democratic dispensation, strongly supported by the Army, is capable of handling any crisis that it may confront. He stated that the victory against the terror and militancy will be achieved at all cost.
The COAS praised the rank and file for continuing to fight under challenging and arduous conditions. Praying for the souls of Shaheeds of Armed forces, Civilian Law Enforcement Agencies and civilians, the COAS assured the bereaved families and the Nation that the debt of their sacred blood will be paid back by the Army, and safety of the people and the Country ensured at all costs.
http://www.ispr.gov.pk/front/main.asp?o= t-press_release&date=2009/4/24
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As we speak many officers and men are laying their lives for Pakistan in the ongoing military operation. And that is no fun, As a Pakistani no one would like to see Pakistan descending into chaos, but tell you one thing the most immediate consequences will be felt by India. if millitant elements ever get their hands on nukes, the first target they would strike and test it would be India. So dont dance when your neighbour’s house burns, your backyard will soon catch fire and engulf the entire house. We are in this together, if we go down we all go down. In hindi it goes like this “hum tu dube hein sanam, tujk ko bhi le dube gae”. So what I mean to say is, we are doing what we need to do right. You do your part and just shut up atleast because nothing good is expected out of you double faced Indians. Atleast you could just shut up and dont create distractions.
Yesterday, CNN (AC360) was comparing Pakistan to Rwanda. Somalians must be feeling better now!” My sincere apologies to people of Rwanda and Somalia. I didn’t mean to disparage your country.
- Posted by David
Actually, Pakistan qualifies for it’s very own exclusive category because not only is it a ‘Failed State’ but it is also the ‘Most Dangerous country’ & a ‘Rogue Nation’. Failed states have internal problems & instability whereas Pakistan also poses a threat to the entire world.
“but tell you one thing the most immediate consequences will be felt by India. if millitant elements ever get their hands on nukes, the first target they would strike and test it would be India” – Posted by Umair
Lmao. This is exactly what I was expecting from you “We have nukes”. Earlier you said that India was Pakistan’s ‘official enemy’ & now you say that extremists will nuke India. As far as India is concerned, there’s no difference between the Pakistani army & the extremists & your comments prove that they indeed are the same. Whenever you lose an argument (which is almost always), all you do is, childishly bark about your nukes. I’m not even going to get into the consequences of a nuclear strike because it’ll be moronic to comment on fictional hypotheticals. But I can tell you that there’s a very strong possibility that before your nukes ever see the light of day, they’ll be either destroyed or out of the control your pathetic establishment.
As far as the ‘two-faced nature’ is concerned, the whole world knows which country is the two-faced, untrustworthy & double-crossing nation in the world & that’s exactly why your country is being shunned by everyone, including your ‘friends’, who are rapidly distancing themselves from you. And, as much as you want us to, we won’t shut up. We will keep exposing Pakistan’s real face in front of the world & guess what, the world seems to be buying it.
Mortal
Dont shut up, keep barking because thats what dogs do. Yes Pakistan has been betrayed by so called friends, but we are like cornered tigers and will fight back. Lets wait for that much anticipated spectacular terrorist strike on India and see if you b*stards have the balls to attack Pakistan. Than see what this rogue, failed and chaotic state does to your mighty India. Your arrogance will make you lick dust one day, and remember we still havent settled the scores of 1971.
Didnt you try Pakistan’s diplomatic isolation after the Mumbai attacks? and Washington DC is not that far from New York, we all know our ambassador Hussain Haqqani and how capable is he in presenting Pakistan to the outside world. He has worked for New York times and is a lecturer in Boston University.
I saw on CNN IBN how your news anchor was lynched by ambassador to London Wajid Shamsul hassan during an interview when undiplomatic language was used and the ambassador was tried to be provoked, I would love to post oyu the You tube link. Pakistan has its diplomatic channels and uses them wisely. You Indians have always tried tricks with the outside world, but for now they dont seem to buy your nonsense.
By the way, Hillary Clinton just said that yesterday:”The situation in pakistan is due to incoherent US policies for the last 30 years towards that country”. Did you listen that?
Mortal:
” Whenever you lose an argument (which is almost always), all you do is, childishly bark about your nukes. ”
-Pakistan: No Compromise on Arsenal
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/19/world/ asia/19briefs-Nukes.html?_r=1&scp=4&sq=P akistan%20&st=cse
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: May 18, 2009
Pakistani officials responded Monday to an assertion by the top United States military officer that the country was expanding its nuclear arsenal. At a Congressional panel last week, Adm. Mike Mullen, left, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said yes when asked whether there was evidence that Pakistan was adding to its nuclear weapons systems and warheads. On Monday, Pakistan’s information minister, Qamar Zaman Kaira, said: “Pakistan does not need to expand its nuclear arsenal, but we want to make it clear that we will maintain a minimum nuclear deterrence that is essential for our defense and stability.”
In comments at a forum in Los Angeles, the Central Intelligence Agency director, Leon E. Panetta, said that the United States did not know the location of all of Pakistan’s nuclear weapons, but he was confident that there were “pretty secure” measures to keep them out of the hands of terrorists.
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I sometime laugh at the innocense of you Indians, even the US with all its satellite tech and intelligence doesnt know where the Pakistani nukes are, and you Indians always think the world will snatch pakistan’s nukes, even if that doesnt happen, those nukes will never set off since they are made in china.
Boys you dont know the Made in pakistan brand nuclear bombs are most affective and lethal. And also, its not we who always rant we have nukes, ask the whole world and they state Pakistan has got 60-100 nuclear warheads.
Umair,
Pakistani journalist Ahmed Rashid says about Pakistani army:
“The Pakistani army, however, was promptly defeated and a vicious cycle ensued. After every setback, the army signed peace agreements with the Pakistani Taliban that allowed them to consolidate their grip on FATA”
Is this true? Did Pakistani army ever win anything?
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/22730
Alethia writes: “I believe that there may be some motivation in India to ensure the independence of the region, whichever countries we are talking about, from the forces which are not indigenous to the region.”
For independence in the region, Pakistan will have to give up its reliance of India’s nemesis – China. India is surrounded by countries in which China is encouraging anti-Indian activities – Burma, Nepal and of course Pakistan. India’s North East has been on insurgency attacks for a long time. India’s main security concern is not Pakistan, but China. But China is using Pakistan’s antagonism towards India to its advantage. They are building a port at Gawadar. US presence in the region has worked in India’s benefit. Right now Pakistan is doing what it is doing because of American insistence. Much to Pakistan’s discomfiture, the US has blocked all its activities in Kashmir and told Pakistan point blank that its belief that India is its enemy is wrong. Without coercion Pakistan never would have gone after the Taliban and by now would have bilked all the US aid towards insurgency training against India and bought more weapons. So it is not all that rosy as you make it out to be. Crocodiles must be watched from a distance. They do not fetch balls. We have been dealing with crocs for too long and have been bitten by them. So if we have to approach them, we will keep a stick, a knife and a rope handy, just in case.
Umair – “Lets wait for that much anticipated spectacular terrorist strike on India and see if you b*stards have the balls to attack Pakistan. Than see what this rogue, failed and chaotic state does to your mighty India. Your arrogance will make you lick dust one day, and remember we still havent settled the scores of 1971.”
Lmao. tsk tsk tsk, The frustrated Pakistani feral shows his true colors. I thought that after 1971, you guys would’ve memorized the size of our b@lls but it looks like you haven’t. Don’t worry man, next time, we’ll make sure that you memorize, not only the size of our balls but also the size of our d*cks. Only time will tell whether we lick dust or not but right now you guys are already busy doing, so the experience will only help you for later.
“but we are like cornered tigers and will fight back”
Cornered tigers? Haha. You seem to be listening to a lotta mullah rhetoric lately. Instead of ‘cornered tigers’ it’s actually looking more like a ‘Rat stuck in a mouse-trap’ waiting for it’s inevitable demise.
“we all know our ambassador Hussain Haqqani and how capable is he in presenting Pakistan to the outside world”
I don’t know what your establishment feeds you about Haqqani but here in the US, he’s looked upon as a clown with a begging bowl. Numerous comedy shows & late night shows make fun of your ambassador & other leaders quite frequently. Sorry to break your bubble!
Would be refugee writes: “Lets wait for that much anticipated spectacular terrorist strike on India and see if you b*stards have the balls to attack Pakistan. Than see what this rogue, failed and chaotic state does to your mighty India. Your arrogance will make you lick dust one day, and remember we still havent settled the scores of 1971.”
We know this is what you entire establishment has been itching to do all these years. From your own words, it is clear that it was the Pakistani establishment that supported the Mumbai attacks, through “official non state actors.” If India had retaliated, by now none of what is going on inside Pakistan would have happened. What a missed opportunity? And we know you are still reeling from your military’s shameful defeat in 1971 and Kargil. This time tell your generals that they can’t afford to pretend to be fighting the Taliban. The Americans are calling the shots and your leaders are belly dancing to their tunes. Your nukes are in safe hands. This means, you will never get to use them. They will be removed before a bearded idiot decides to launch them. And when you go down, you go down alone. Do not day dream about taking others down with you. Sorry. But that is not how it works. Try another Mumbai and the US itself might launch an attack inside your beloved country. You are doomed. And with your warped attitude, your country is doomed as well.
Umair,
Did Pakistan get any aid from all-weather brother China other than lip service?
Chinese seems to stand 100 ft away from Pakistan. What happened?
Limits of Extortion!
Pak General asks US for AC tents for Swat displaced!
Why Pakistan is never asking anything to China?
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/pak-general-a sks-us-for-ac-tents-for-swat-displaced/9 3031-2.html
Mauryan:
Isn’t there the possibility that India and China can have a modus vivendi? I think so. Also, China is part of the region. Doesn’t India have Russia as its partner? And Russia is also part of the region, or at least an Asian power.
I think China is trying to be a good friend to Pakistan but wouldn’t mind if Pakistan were less dependent on it and more dependent on itself (which it should be).
Perhaps a closer association with the SCO is one answer to better security for both India and Pakistan? And it’s an Asian solution.
A real friendship between India and Pakistan will solve many of these questions and it would be an alliance not based on animosity toward any other country but one which reinforces the stability of India, Pakistan and the region.
There is one more aspect in the reconciliation between India and Pakistan which needs some attention. That is the religious dimension. There should be a convocation of religious leaders of all the religions from the two countries to chime in their authority and their recommendations on the issues which are keeping the countries apart. This two track approach, political and religious, will give a better chance for an agreement to be reached.
Scenario: All religious leaders issue a combined statement that terrorism is against all religious values.
Scenario: Muslims apologize to Sikhs for the killing of Guru Arjun Dev ji by the Mughals.
Scenario: Hindus apologize to Muslims for the destruction of the Babri mosque and offer to rebuild it.
Scenario: Muslims apologise to Hindus for the destruction for the Lord Ram Temple in Ayodia and offer to rebuild it.
Scenario: Everybody apologizes and forgives the other for past actions. Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Jains, Parsis, Buddhists, Christians etc. Even though present-day people of a given religion are completely innocent of any wrongdoing, it will be appreciated that they apologize for the actions of their ancestors and ask forgiveness.
This is how religious leaders can help to bring a full reconciliation between India and Pakistan.
Why Pakistan is never asking anything to China?
- Posted by David
Because China has made it quite clear that it doesn’t wanna touch Pakistan’s begging bowl with a 10 foot pole.
KISSINGER:
“Well, N Korea is a very strange country. It’s a country in which everybody has a radio in his house that he can’t shut off, so the government can talk to their people 24 hours a day. And in a way, it does. They have devoted over 50 percent of their GNP to military purposes now for years, and as a result, there’s starvation, shortages. They seem to think that they need nuclear weapons to gain respect or — it’s really hard to know where they are going”
Sounds like Pakistan to me. Mullahs control Radio, military feasts on GNP and country goes homeless, starving, begging, shortages.
Just one difference: N Korea doesn’t bomb it’s own people!
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,5207 80,00.html
Did u donate $5 to Pakistan today?
“Using your cell phone, Americans can text the word ‘Swat’ to the number 20222 and make a $5 contribution that would help the U.N. High Commissioner for Refugees provide tents, clothing, food and medicine for hundreds of thousands of affected people,” Mrs. Clinton said.
http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/may /20/us-seeks-5-donations-for-refugees/
David wrote:
“Did u donate $5 to Pakistan today?”
Very soon Americans will be told to “Type ‘DL2PAK’ and send to 2102 for sending dinner leftovers to Pakistan”
Pakis will happily
accept it, as always. Paki leaders will appeal (Actually beg) for more leftovers, because its their war and they are the victim.
Nobody will care if its ‘Halal’ or not when there are so many hungry people and no food. I dont worry about Umair, he can eat his ‘Bamb’.
Punjabiyaar,
Although I appreciate your humor, please don’t insult common Pakistanis. They are humans like us. They are at the receiving end from all: Immoral military, greedy politicians and ruthless Talibans.
I am just amazed at the insanity and duplicity of military and politicians! I hope no one goes through what common Pakistanis are going through now.
I guess, the only problem with common Pakistanis is that they are too gullible. Always ready and willing to believe what military, mullahs or media feeds you. Never able to question.
But that happens when you are illiterate or attend a Saudi funded Madrassa.
David:
I am sorry if I hurt feelings of any common Pakistani, I know how it feels to be a refugee. Moreover common people dont make policies.
My comment is pointed more towards the options Pakistan as a nation have now, Looking at the amount of begging they had done lately, nobody will be surprised if they come up with a ridiculous demand’ish appeal as above.
I wonder why some Pakis on this forum can even think of praising army and ISI for whatever they had done. They had been parasitic,corrupt and greedy, adding insult to injury they lost wars too.
Pakis are expanding their nukes programme and begging for more aid at the same time. Where do they think the money will come from.
Alethia,
Everyone wants peace and a good life. I have no arguments there. Apologizing for past actions by different people will not make things better. Muslims who are asked to apologize for Ayodhya temple are descendants of Hindus who fought the Muslims who came to demolish it and build a mosque on it. Things have changed. I sense from your writing that you have simplified India-Pakistan issues to a religious one. Pakistan separated itself in the name of religion. India never looked at itself as a Hindu country. In fact there are many parts of India where communism thrives and anti-Hindu sentiments exist. Hindus are fighting amongst themselves in terms of class and caste. But that is sporadic and mostly political agenda being disguised in the form of religion or ethnic / linguistic issues. It takes a lot of exposure of the land to understand the real reason. Religion is not the real issue.
Pakistan’s major problem is its attitude towards India. And that attitude is mostly confined to the Punjabi ethnic group in that country. They look at themselves as the most macho people and everyone else in the sub-continent appear inferior to them. It is this attitude that led to the separation of Bangladesh. And it is this attitude that has made a small country to take on a much larger and more powerful neighbor through four wars. India has been mature and has dealt with them diplomatically as much as they could. You cannot provide one evidence of Indian subterfuge inside Pakistan for the past 30 years or more. We need to know what is going to become of Pakistan in the near and far future before deciding whether it is worth engaging in any diplomatic exchanges with them. Pakistan may or may not survive as a nation. We need to see what is ahead first. So it is a waiting time for us.
i think now situation in pakistan is improving.talibans majority in number had been killed.
Mauryan:
additional Chinese activities–port building like in Gawdar Pakistan is the Hambantota port project in Sri Lanka.
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2009-0 5/12/content_11360421.htm
“China was committed to developing friendly relations with Sri Lanka based on the Five Principles of Peaceful Co-existence”
Oh yeah! the Panchsheel.
Another one is Bangladeshi port of Chittagong.
@Lets wait for that much anticipated spectacular terrorist strike on India and see if you b*stards have the balls to attack Pakistan.”
-posted by Pakistan
Wow! How peaceful. As much as I want to whip your ass, I will not wish for innocnets to die. Pakistan being called Rogue state is due to your leaders, nothing to do with a Pakistani on the street. On the otherhand, what you are saying is killings of inncent Indians. Beauty of such statements is that they don’t cause physical damage as intended but shows the character of a person. Is that the Islam code that you brag about that teaches you to say this?
Is there a teenager here who can handle this huffing and puffing of Umair.