Comments on: India, Pakistan and the rise of China Perspectives on Pakistan Thu, 01 Oct 2015 19:31:05 +0000 hourly 1 By: Umair Sat, 30 May 2009 21:41:56 +0000 Myra
“Whoever said this is our resource not yours got it wrong. It’s not a public platform to say whatever you like.”

-With due respect, I know what you stated, I hear you, I didn’t meant to take ownership of anything. But just to clarify, If I find Indians stating rubbish about Pakistan on this forum, I will have the right to respond, so please don’t delete my comments then. Thanks

By: anup Sat, 30 May 2009 11:50:38 +0000 Myra
“libel, … if you accuse a journalist of bias.”
—Wow! I didn’t know that ‘journalists’ are beyond reproach, like caesar’s wife?huh?

By: Myra MacDonald Sat, 30 May 2009 10:52:36 +0000 1) The conversation is going off topic. If it does not get back on topic, I shall close the post.

2) Whoever said this is our resource not yours got it wrong. It’s not a public platform to say whatever you like.

3) Free speech does not cover libel, which is what you are doing if you accuse a journalist of bias. I shall in future delete all such comments, except in the case of those of you who are willing to identify yourselves with full name and contact details. (Do however read my articles and book, in which I make every effort to seek all points of view, before making such an accusation.)

4) Seeking a civil discussion which remains on topic, and which allows all sides to express their point of view is not bias – it’s about balance, which is a requirement of my profession.

Now please get back on topic – this post is about the role of China.


By: brian Sat, 30 May 2009 04:14:13 +0000 correction

“I have no problem with bias, as I stated before, it is the essential basis of personal opinion WHICH CANNOT BE BIAS.”
Which MUST be bias..

By: brian Sat, 30 May 2009 04:12:03 +0000 Umair,

I have no problem with bias, as I stated before, it is the essential basis of personal opinion which cannot be bias.
I understand that some may have a problem with the responsibilities of a moderator being for or against an issue but as far as im concerned they are also entitled to their opinions and if they appear to favour one ideal over another I cant see how there’s anything abnormal or unfair about that.
Im more concerned with freedom of expression, which is apparently the cause of having a news-blog free to the public in the first place. It is obviously the responsibility of the moderators in this forum to maintain respectful, if passionate, debate on news issues, however I dont believe that line was even close to being crossed before the blog was shut down, and think its a disappointing abuse of moderating authority it that situation to do so after Myra entered the debate and drew criticism for her points of view.
We are all subject to criticism if we chose to enter an opinion into a debate and unless obvious lines of aggression and personal disrespect are crossed there is no need to close a string because your opinions are not popular.
All blogs stray off topic and clash on opinions, it doesn’t mean arguments cant be resolved and topics cant get back on track. Debate isn’t always constructive, but we still all come here to express our opinions and should be allowed to disagree with anyone who has been allowed to voice their own.

By: chirkut Sat, 30 May 2009 01:54:00 +0000 Myra,

I for one also think that you need to restore your neutrality.
I criticized PA for creating the IDP mess on your blog about IDP. You later on started defending PA.
Guess what i am not alone in criticizing -content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/prov inces/07-Displaced-residents-return-to-d estroyed-Sultanwas-village-ha-06

“When Pakistan army drove the Taliban back from this small north-western village, it also destroyed much of everything else here.

F-16 fighter jets, military helicopters, tanks and artillery reduced houses, mosques and shops to rubble, strewn with children’s shoes, shattered TV sets and perfume bottles.”

By: chirkut Sat, 30 May 2009 01:49:15 +0000 Umair,

There was no “personal attack” on Myra. Though people heavily “criticized” her for not being neutral. There is a fine line my dear.

@”What is required from all of us is to refrain from personal attacks, specially against the author, and engage each other in meaningful, constructive debate and stick to the topic. Also, share links and back up our views/opinions with relevant links/references where possible.”

Good that your are talking sense. So when are you giving us the links/references of indian involvement in Balochistan and NWFP that you promised about a month before?

By: Azad Fri, 29 May 2009 18:00:22 +0000 Dr. Malek Towghi says:
May 29th, 2009 at 12:25 pm I am afraid the Military-Mulla Complex of Pakistan has duped my country, the US, again. We did not know that while supposedly ‘pursuing’ 200 or 2000 Taliban militants, the military will dislocate more than 2,000,000 innocent Pashtuns for which we, Americans, will continue to be blamed. Meanwhile, we are being — and will be –asked — to pay additional sums to help these internal refugees.

These are the results of military ‘operations’,so far, in a single district, Swat. The whole Taliban-infected NWFP, FATA, and the Pashtun regions of Balochistan are yet to be dealt with. Only God and the ISI know the final extent and number of dislocated Pashtuns.

The disaster will be so great that we will be asked again to forget about Bin Ladin, Zawahiri and Mulla Umar. Our Pakistani ‘friends’ have already ‘convinced’ us to slow down, if not completely stop, the Drone operations … which had just begun to corner Alqaeda- Taliban operatives.

By the way, we do not know what new game the Pakistani military is playing with the Taliban leaders in the ‘battle fronts’; the international media are not allowed any access.

Meanwhile according to a well-thought scheme — and to warn the Sharif Brothers to ‘behave’, fanatics are being let loose to terrorize Punjab. The planned chaos will widen… and we will be asked to continue paying …. For what? Definitely not for capturing or destroying Bin Ladin & Co.

The rational way for us, the Americans, is to get out of the mess called Pakistan along with the remaining undelivered checks, take a deep breath and relax for awhile, while protecting Afghanistan with full force, and thinking of ways to deal with the Al-Qaedah other than depending on Islamabad and its military.

There are definitely other ways …. more effective and less expensive.

Malek Towghi, Michigan, USA.
Azad: another one from Pakistani diaspora, fromDAWN blog

By: Azad Fri, 29 May 2009 17:54:09 +0000 Yasir Hussain says:
May 29th, 2009 at 3:54 pm @Dr. Malek Towghi

How much america had paid for a war initiated by them and for them? surely not a small part of what we pakistanis have paid.

We are not so fool nation that “to get your cheques” we have compromised our security and even our future.

No, its not pakistan which is part of problem but its America. they started a war in afghanistan in 80’s in the name of jihad and it was american printing press who printed jihadi lectures for pakistani madrassas. its alright till 89 because USSR was a common enemy for both pakistan and US. but at the end of war, what they did is called “presslor amendment”. they trained 80,000 jihadi commandos and at the end imposed sanctions on us and left us alone for them. We had no option but to try to settle them. and for this we are accused of “links” with them. tell me how can we try to settle them without “links”. although Ronald Ragon once called them “forefathers”.

Again they repeated the thing, after capturing Afghanistan in 2002 they had to be concerned about them but again they left it and focus their attention on Iraq for WMD which were never discovered.

meanwhile india made it strong in Afghanistan and started to propagate anti pakistan sentiments over there.
Saqib Khan says:
May 29th, 2009 at 3:29 pm I wish that the Pakistan Government should have gone after the Taliban leadership in order to eliminate them rather then going after few hundred militants and insurgents in this very expensive military operation that would ruin Pakistan’s already hand to mouth economy. Over 2.5 million people of Swat have been made to flee their homes, agricultural land, and livelihood and made to live under the open skies in 40C temperature, horrendous conditions without sanitation, medical, water, electricity and without adequate food supplies.

President Asif Ali Zardari is obeying American administration orders and applying President Obama’s policies in Pakistan and this military operation was an American order that has to be obeyed to receive American 1.85 billion dollars. It should be remembered that USA is the richest world economy and the most technologically developed country in the world and has so far failed to defeat Al-Qaeda and Taliban in Afghanistan despite wasting over five trillion dollars on lost the war. It is a misconceived perception that Pakistan can defeat war of terrorism on its soil by bullets and bombs. President is misleading the nation and PPP has no idea what is doing or should to fight terrorism and sort out its domestic, economic, defense and diplomatic problems.

If it were happening in the USA, UK and other European countries, their interior ministers would have resigned long time ago for negligence, incompetence and inability to handle their jobs. Rehamn Malik, the interior minister is always telling Pakistanis Your country is in danger” as if he is not a Pakistani but a foreigner. This is the price that Pakistan will have to pay to ally itself with the West and for getting expensive American aid with long list of string attached.

It is about time that he is sacked from his post and Pakistanis are saved from more atrocities. This government is incapable of handling Pakistans internal and external problems and dragging the country into a big hole. In the West these terrorists are caught even before they blow themselves and innocent human beings; and are even caught when they are planning a terrorist act. Rehman Malik has so far failed to come up with any thing positive and even those arrested red handed in the terrorist activities are never heard off afterwards.

The recently displaced US, Gen McKiernan, has said many times that we will never win the “hearts and minds” of the Afghan people but we can win their support, though we will not do that through military operations alone. The struggle is not about killing insurgents. We have killed more insurgents than we can count over the past seven years and have moved no closer to victory by doing so. This struggle is about the Afghan population. Afghans must believe that their government will provide them greater security and opportunity for prosperity than the insurgency will. We are not naive; we know that military operations must continue and that some people must be killed — but under McKiernan a more holistic approach to winning the peace has been our focus. These are the “conventional” tactics he has been employing. To those who say we have moved too slowly, to those looking for the quick fix or fast score that will enable our forces to come home, I urge caution.

The Americans, British, Indians and Israelis are all involved in a devils conspiracy to fragmentize Pakistan, and the terrorists who so ever they are and from where ever they come from are beyond any shadow of a doubt are trained, armed, funded and logistically supported by the Pakistans enemies around its borders and from far away. The Americans are playing a very duplicitous game here: they want to control Pakistans Baluchistan for its strategic importance and also for its abundant natural resources. If President Asif Ali Zardari stays in power for more one year, American long held dream of controlling Central Asia would appear to be coming true. This inept Pakistani PPP government has no idea of what they are doing or should do to combat terrorism. This military operation will surely bankrupt already hand-to mouth Pakistan’s economy that has become so dependent on US hand outs.

Azad says: I will bring in (cut and paste) the Pakistanis’ opinions from DAWN blog, without my own viws. This way more Paks can be heard on this frum.

By: rajeev Fri, 29 May 2009 17:46:15 +0000 @Most people who are annoyed and feel biased are those that thought this is a Pakistan bashing forum. Sad, it isnt. This blog is about Pakistan, the country, its problems, its beauty, its people, its hope, everything.
Important it is to understand what is the purpose of this forum.
– Posted by Umair

Are you leaving your message in the end and generalizing. Not at all to attack Myra right now, but look Myra is being sympathetic to you since you are the only Pakistani who is frequenting this blog.

Most if not all bloggers know what this forum is about and to dicuss the beauty of pakistan depends upon thread, and there have not been much chances for the obvious reasons. This blog is about Pakistan as a country PLUS Pakistan’s neighbours and that’s where my interest lies. This is evident from the shared threads between India & Pakistan blog and then there are some threads shared by India/Pak/Chinese blogs. So the purpose of the forum is not talking about Pakistan only. Myra can correct me.

@@Most people who are annoyed and feel biased are those that thought this is a Pakistan bashing forum. Sad, it isnt.
-Come on Umair. There is no bashing forum anywhere and there is no Pakistani “bashing” going on here. It is both ways if it has been. “Bashing” is a very commonly but wrongly used word here. I have seen points been made and if there is something pakistani do not like, there is an option to counter it with a reason and URL. Yes the repitition, as Myra said, has been there but not any more than what I have seen from your posts, if you allow me to be specific. It is natural and we are not professional writers and if we are so emotional in India-pak Cricket, then it is understandable that this is serious matter.

And finally if you feel that this forum is about Pakistan, then where are all the Pakistanis? This is the forum where Pakistanis should tell the world what they think rather than coming here like a drone, whine and say “I am busy”. More non-Asians have participated than Pakistanis. Bashing bullying does not make a Pakistani run away, although Myra have used the word “bullying”. Take it as a complement.

I personally am not an expert on forcasting the collapse of a nation, yes some bloggers have done. But then responsible US leaders and generals and many Pakistani intellectuals also have said the same thing. So Indians are not saying anything novel.

I would like to make one very important comment and I can be fairly comfortable to say on behalf of most Indians. Targeting Pakistani leaders, Army and ISI or any relevent agency does not mean that it is against the people of Pakistan. Even saying Army means handful Pakistani Army people who make the decisions. I believe when you say anti-US, it means the politicians not the people.