India: should it take a gamble on Pakistan?

May 29, 2009

Some people in India are calling upon the new coalition government to make a series of bold moves towards Pakistan that will compel the neighbour to put its money where  the mouth is.

If Pakistan keeps saying that it cannot fully and single-mindedly go after militants on its northwest frontier and indeed increasingly within the heartland because of the threat it faces from India, then New Delhi must call its bluff, argued authors Nitin Pai and Sushant K. Singh in a recent piece for India’s Mint newspaper.

How about Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, back for a second term, giving a categorical public declaration that Pakistan need not fear an Indian military attack so long as the Pakistan army is engaged in fighting with Taliban militants?  While a verbal commitment may not convince the military brass in Rawalpindi, it will likely play well in Washington as it rathchets up pressure on the Pakistan army to take the battle to the militants.

Second and to back up its assurance, India could move some of the army strike formations from the international border with Pakistan in Punjab and Rajasthan. “Such a bold, strategic move will not only make India’s verbal assurances credible, but it will also immediately result in irresistible pressure on the Pakistani army to commit more of its troops to the western border,” the authors wrote in the Mint piece.

Clearly, the aim of such a peace gamble is to expose the contradiction within the Pakistani position, force them to either go full throttle after militant groups, some of whom are suspected to be tied to its intelligence agencies, or  face America’s wrath.

Moving Indian troops back will compel the Pakistan army to act against the Taliban, and because it is incapable of doing so, will cause the United States to realise that there is no alternative to dismantling the military-jihadi complex, Pai and Singh argue.

Taking out Pakistan’s military-jihadi establishment is really what the battle in Pakistan is all about – that is the refrain you hear incessantly in the strategic establishment in New Delhi  as I did during a visit over the past few weeks, and one you can be sure it will be telling U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton expected to visit sometime in July.

But in the immediate future, is such a bold gamble as troop pullback really going to work?
Two issues. One, what about Kashmir ? No pullback is proposed on Kashmir where tens of thousands of troops are massed on both sides of the Line of Control, and according to some Pakistani experts this really is where is there should be a re-deployment of forces.

Ejaz Haider in a piece for Pakistan’s Daily Times, says the bulk of India’s military deployment  iscentred on Pakistan, with 7 of the army’s 13 corps “specific to Pakistan.”  In any case, given that the Pakistan army’s numerical strength is half that of India, the deployment of the Pakistan army along the eastern frontier is much thinner than India’s.

And if Pakistan does not face the threat of a hot war from India as everyone keeps telling it, Haider says, then India too does not face that prospect.

“If Pakistan is asked by the US and other western capitals on the basis of this argument to pull out troops from the eastern border and deploy them to the west, then perhaps India should also be called upon to thin its much-heavier Pakistan-specific deployment along the international border, the Line of Control, the working boundary and the actual ground position line,” he says.

But can the Indian army really thin out of Kashmir? At this point when the threat of infiltration of militants from Pakistan is again being talked about?

And finally does Singh, even with a stronger parliamentary support after a general election, really have the people’s endorsement of cutting back troops from the Pakistan frontier. The wounds from the 26/11 attack on Mumbai for which the Pakistan-based group Lashkar-e-Taiba has been held responsible, remain fresh for a large number of Indians.  They are not in a mood to forgive or forget.

[Photos of Indian and Pakistani troops at a border checkpoint and the site of a car bombing in Lahore on May 27)

Comments
 

It is in Indian interest to lend indirect moral support to present elected government to fight the ‘Taliban’ to the finish or be prepared to fight them when those attack us crossing our border in case Pakistan fails to win its war against ‘Taliban’ decisively.

Posted by Vinod Saini | Report as abusive
 

Umair,

All you are saying is Pakistan will not change no matter what any country does to improve relations with it.

Please do not belabor in writing the same points over and over again. No one cares how good or bad Pakistani diplomats are or how efficient is the ISI or how brave the PA has become after a shot of jihad. Your posturing serves no purpose of reaching a border settlement. If there was a vote in India to geographically relocate Pakistan to some other part of the world everyone will vote for an unanimous yes.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive
 

Delhi stunned: UK & China stall move to blacklist Masood Azhar
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/delhi- stunned-uk-&-china-stall-move-to-blackli st-masood-azhar/468636/
Sanjeev, Keith
News of this kind justifiably dampen any enthusiasm towards’ magnanimous’ reconciliations on Indias part. In addition to the unstable neighbors serving as perennial migraines, governments far and beyond continue to hurt Indias cause overtly and covertly, on international forums. The underlying objective to weaken India by these international players remains elusive. Is it merely to keep India under check, so that it does not grow into into yet another china? One has to be content with conspiracy theories for now. UK better come up with a sound explanation.
The cleavage in the very foundations of Global war on terror is obvious. The above establishes, in the NATO book, that terrorists are defined as those who offend only NATO countries.

 

Umair vomits non-sensical, illogical, one-sided propaganda once more:

“Anyone suggesting Pakistan should extradite criminals and fugitives, the likes of Dawood Ibrahim to India must remember there no extradition treaty between the country. The law and constitution doesnt allow that, Pakistan is under no international obligation to extradite any fugitives to India.
However, yes Pakistan is a member of Interpol just like India. What India can do is approach the interpol and work with them to extradite any criminals in Pakistan wanted by india.”

–>Pakistan’s military continues to hide behind anything it can. If there is no extradition treaty, draft one and propose it to India, India will gladly accept Daewood Ibrahim and his lads. Feel free as a good gesture to admit they are in Pakistan and roaming free to operate. The world knows Pakistan is complicit with terrorism and criminals. Please quit hiding behind interpol.

“Secondly, all this accusation of Pakistan sponsoring terrorism and harboring terrorist infrastructure is just YOUR BS propaganda Sanjeev.”

–>Musharaff himself admitting sponsoring, supporting and training Jihadist Mujahideen Proxy Armies to stoke agitation and violence in India. You can goto Youtube and you will see clips of the Pakistani Army Soldiers standing hand in claw with Militants Cheering “Death to India”.

Even little pakistani children are shouting at the top of their lungs: “Lakh-Kharodh Hindu Mahroh”….translated as “kill hundreds and thousands and millions of Hindus!”, all while Pakitani soldiers look on and smile. There is proof of institutionalized racisim and support of terrorism against India, by the State itself, it is on Youtube and has been there for a long time.

“By the way, I hope you remember there are some wounds in Pakistan bleeding since 1971.
There fore, Mr. Sanjeev dont cry too much for Mumbai 26/11.”

Pakistan started the 1971 misadventure. In 1971 the Awami League of East Pakistan declaired a political victory in their election and voted to be independent from East Pakistan. A rebellious major in the Pakistani army, declared the independence of Bangladesh on behalf of Mujibur. As the punjabi Fauji’s started their genocide to exert dominance and control over East Pakistan, India opened its borders to the millions of refugess, while Pakistan was systematically genociding Hindus and Muslims, who did not want to be a part of West Pakistan, so Indira Gandhi opened the border, it was the human thing to do. The Pakistan army conducted widespread atrocities against the civilian population of East Pakistan.

The 1971 War was officially started by Pakistan first, on the evening of Sunday, 3 December, the Pakistani air force launched sorties on eight airfields in north-western India, including Agra which was 300 miles (480 km) from the border, it was called operation Chengiz Khan.

India reacted by declaring war on Pakistan.Indian forces responded with a massive coordinated air, sea, and land assault.

Indian Air Force started flying sorties against Pakistan from midnight and quickly achieved air superiority. The main Indian Objective on the Western front was to prevent Pakistan from entering Indian soil. There was no Indian intention of conducting an offensive into West Pakistan, although Pakistan originally intended to conduct an offensive deep into Northern India.

In the end, Indian naval, air and ground superiority forced Pakistan to surrender on Dec. 16, 1971.

With tears in his eyes, Lt. Gen A. A. K. Niazi of Pakistan signs the instrument of surrender on December 16, surrendering his forces to Lt. Gen Jagjit Singh Aurora of Indian army.

Umair, please refer to:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Pakist ani_War_of_1971

As a strange twist of fate, in fact, both men knew each other a cadets in the British Army.

Pakistan had no moral authority, it genocided millions and had to surrender. Had Pakistan let East Pakistan, peacefully become independent, without the bloody slaughter of innocent millions, India would not have gone to war with Pakistan.

India helped liberate East Pakistan from the oppressive and genocidal regime of West Pakistan. Somebody had to the Chinese had no moral core to do such a thing.

Umair, in the future, when you mention 1971, please let it echo in your hollow skull, the true facts and nature of who started the war and who surrendered and why.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

Sanjeev,

Despite Umair’s negative response to your article, we Indians and even the west are forgiving against those who commit terrorism and genocide.

We still think India should take a gamble against Pakistan. Outside of the Military, there are millions of normal, good, god-fearing, fair-minded Pakistani’s who will be more than happy to hold their military accountable.

We should give Pakistan every oppportunity to show that it is a good honest neighbour, capable of delivering on promises, capable of reigning its terrorists, proxy armies and non-state actors.

I am interested to know from Pakistani’s though, if India acts fairly, pulls its army away from the border, is India allowed to defend itself, if the Pak Army decides another Kargil Like misadventure?

Should India be allowed to defend its citizens, or sit back and be invaded?

Umair says that India and Pakistan hate each other, not that is not true, Pakistan hates India, India does not hate, that takes too much energy, India, just wants a stable, honest neighbour with integrity, who does not commit proxy wars against both of its neighbours.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

Sanjeevan,

Thank you for posting that question should India take a gamble?

May I shed some more information I would like to share with the blog, it seems that Pakistan is still in the business of making more nuclear bombs, please refer to article on the following link:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/17  /pakistan-may-be-diverting_n_204459.htm l

Yes, it appears that billions of USD are still being used to make nuclear bombs as a future gift to the people of India. Your question takes on a new twist, perhaps your question needs to be rephrased as:

“Which country, if any, would be willing to take a gamble on Pakistan, given that it is still making nxclxxr bxxbs?”

I want to know what other people here think about Pakistan continuing to make nuclear bombs, given that it keeps asking for money to fight terrorism.

The world is left confused and feeling lied to and cheated.

How can peace ever be possible with such a dishonest country?

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

Sanjeev, here is the full article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/18/world/ asia/18nuke.html?_r=1&hp

Now getting back to your original question, should Pakistan take a gamble? Well to answer that one needs to consider a group of guys at a gambling table, imagine for a moment that Pakistan is the one guy, with the lousy deck of cards and India is the one, with the good deck of cards, imagine that someone in the casino is giving ammo and guns to the guy losing the gambling game, so that they can shoot the guy, who is trying to win honestly, that is Pakistan, at least that is how it appears to all of us. Perhaps we should not be gamblign with a player that is dirty and unfair from the get go and intends to cheat, regardless of the cards they have…

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

Sanjeev,

It appears you are asking India to take a gamble on a country, which is parasitically mining the blood of it citizens and mining the blood of American Taxpayers to make nxclxxr bxxbs for itself, while its own people starve.

Given the Pakistani’s army’s history with genocides and starting wars with India, losing all of them, what do you other think, should India take a chance with someone who keeps making nukes with American tax payer money?

“Should Pakistan be trusted”?

Should be the name of your Questioned Post.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

Umair’s comments are not surprising. He is fully devoted to his military and has no faith in anything else. And there are many in Pakistani military establishment that share his feelings. Military is the most powerful establishment in his country. What this means is this. The world can do whatever it desires. Those few inside the military will run their own agenda and it has only one goal – get at India. That is the underlying reason for everything Pakistan has done and the state it is in.

Umair blurted out in one of his responses that the reason behind Pakistan’s involvement in Kashmir is to avenge Bangladesh. I have read in Tariq Ali’s book, “The Duel,” that the military under Zia Ul Haq had the exact same sentiments at the end of the Afghan war. This time they were fully prepared and Kashmir has never been the same since then. But such activities have also cost Pakistan dearly as we can see today. Their emotions have blinded them so much that they are realizing that their feet are fire only now.

So long as this negative attitude does not go away from Umair and similar Pakistanis, there is no way anything will settle down in the sub-continent. Therefore from a selfish stand point, I always wish that Pakistan burns down from this Swat conflict and splits into smaller nations. Their military will celebrate about the grand victory in Swat. But they have been fooling themselves every time. The Taliban has sneaked into the rest of the country, just like they sneaked into Pakistan when the US ran them over in Afghanistan. The US is still fighting them. Now the Taliban will start the urban warfare and the Pakistani military is going to face a brick wall after that. I hope that this oncoming internal conflict leads to Pakistan’s final dismemberment. Of course, Pakistan’s military will try a last ditch nuclear conflict with India before the final death.

A stable Pakistan, as I see it, is one that is split into smaller nations that are turned towards each other. And it is only a matter of time before that happens. What will make my wish true is the attitude that Umair and his fellow countrymen show. It is that attitude that has brought them this far and it will take them to their final destiny. Urban insurgency is about to begin in Pakistan, as soon as the dust settles in Swat.

 

Umair the Pakistani

“..all this accusation of Pakistan sponsoring terrorism and harboring terrorist infrastructure is just YOUR BS propaganda Sanjeev.”
…then…
“Well, take this: ISI activates its sleeper cells inside India. Terrorists strikes take place in India which are blamed on Pakistan,..”

Posted by anup | Report as abusive
 

Mauryan
Urban insurgency, Pakistan’s final dismemberment.
MY FOOT
Didnt you read the articles posted by Global watcher, Pakistan continues to modernize and expand its nuclear program from uranium based bombs to plutonium based more deadly and lethal nuclear bombs. Why? because of those enemies that wish to dismember Pakistan. You dont even know what we can do to those who wish Pakistan to burn.
By the way, just to give you an update from the situation on ground, the urban insurgency that you think is about to begin in Pakistan is infact going to end in next 2 or 3 days. Mingora is in full control of Pakistan Army while Swat is taking a little time. Pakistan Army is chasing all the terrorist, all refugees will return back to their homes sooner than expected, Pakistan has successfully managed the problem and Pakistan Military is in full control of the situation. So internal stability of Pakistan has been reinforced, the writ of the government has been restored in Swat and adjoining areas. Now Pakistan can resume full concentration on the Indian border.

We Pakistanis are not insane, If India is willing to press the reset button we might start a new era of friendship and cooperation. But if India wants to play games like diplomatic coercion and international pressure, than Islamabad is more than capable to deal and dodge it. And history has shown it, the recent event of China and UK blocking the move to blacklist Masood Azhar is something India should be ashamed of. It is pathetic diplomacy on part of India. I understand China is Pakistan’s ally but what about UK. UK has lately angered India, Milliband told Indian leaders right under their noses in Delhi to sort out Kashmir if they want Pakistan to end proxy war.

Probably India needs to learn a thing or two before it starts gambling, otherwise a lost gambler has a pathetic look on his face.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Anup
You would be stupid to think RAW doesnt have its sleeper cells in Pakistan.

Mauryan
India dismembered Pakistan in 1971, we can probably tolerate everything by India but if India plays with Pakistan’s territorial integrity this time, Pakistan will carry out a nuclear strike on India. There is zero tolerance on territorial integrity and sovereignty of Pakistan.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Anup
“You would be stupid to think RAW doesnt have its sleeper cells in Pakistan.

Mauryan
India dismembered Pakistan in 1971, we can probably tolerate everything by India but if India plays with Pakistan’s territorial integrity this time, Pakistan will carry out a nuclear strike on India. There is zero tolerance on territorial integrity and sovereignty of Pakistan.
- Posted by Umair”

Umair, do you really think Pakistan would survive a retaliatory and conclusive strike by India? Close your pants zipper and put your nuke back in your pants. From space, there would be only a black scratch left for all to see.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

In the hot seat.

India Today

India has made a proposal to Pakistan but behind this fresh proposal lies a pressure-deflecting tactic. While the country wants Islamabad to take visible steps on dismantling terror infrastructure, it has also demonstrated to its Western interlocutors that India is not being inflexible as it has made a new offer to Pakistan. This is a deft move by New Delhi as in the coming days, the pressure to begin a dialogue process with Pakistan is only going to mount.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/election200 9/index.php?option=com_content&task=view &id=44199&sectionid=36&Itemid=1&issueid= 108

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Global watcher
“Umair, do you really think Pakistan would survive a retaliatory and conclusive strike by India?”

The newer more deadlier plutonium based Pakistani nuclear bombs are going to blow the crap out of India. There will be no India to retaliate against Pakistan. It was Geroge Fernandes who fooled you Indians that India could take a bomb or two but when India replies there will be no Pakistan.
However, things have changed now, the bomb or two will see the end of India once and for all.
Tell me honestly, why is Pakistan upgrading and expanding its nuclear programme? whose direction is Pakistan nuclear programme directed at?

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Umair,

Your nuclear threats sound stale. Every time you find yourself cornered, you try to chest thump with nuclear bomb threat. India is not planning to dismember Pakistan. It might happen without any external push. Your country is standing on top of a fragile sheet that can collapse if those in power in your country share your mindset.

Your country’s arrogant attitude led to the separation of East Pakistan. Bengalis were looked at as weak, effeminate and Hindu influenced second class citizens who could not be accepted as equals. India only capitalized it. One part less on the Eastern front was better suited to India’s strategic interests. And I support that tactical move. Now India can deal with one country on its West side. So to me, the thoughts of 1971 are returning. May be a small set of independent nations on the Western side would be strategically a good thing for my country as well. However, I don’t think India has to do anything. As I see it, it is happening by itself.
No matter how much you can deny it, there is a high potential for it now. It may not happen, but I am not going to become unhappy if it does not happen. But it would make me happy, if your country becomes smaller nations. Sorry if it hurts your feelings.

I never wished for support from UK or China. UK created Pakistan to rub salt on Gandhi and Nehru. Jinnah was their puppet. Why do you think Mount Batten stopped the Kashmir conflict abruptly? And there were British generals on both sides fighting against each other! That makes no sense. Pakistan’s creation, Kashmir conflict etc are Britain’s long term strategic plans in the region to prevent India from ever emerging as a power. However, India has managed to wriggle out of that plan. So UK is doing everything to show its irritation. I do not know that there is a passionate dislike towards India in UK, Canada, Australia and the Republicans in the US. Look at the racial attacks on Indian students in Australia now.

Anyway, I can only reflect views from Indian perspective and I do not blame you for your perspectives. And my view is that your country has become a puppet at the hands of the Western powers.

Congratulations to your military for reclaiming Swat. The only thing is, it will have to do this many times in the future. This is not the end. It is only the beginning of the end. The end of Pakistan as we know of it. The nice thing is, India will have nothing to do with it. Sorry, if my words hurt.

 

Correction: “I do not know that there is a passionate dislike towards India in UK, Canada, Australia and the Republicans in the US. Look at the racial attacks on Indian students in Australia now.”

It should read as “I know that there is a passionate dislike towards India in UK, Canada, Australia and the Republicans in the US. Look at the racial attacks on Indian students in Australia now.”

 

For those who think, India will pull back forces from Pakistan border. In return, Pakistan will have no excuse in devoting more military resources against Taliban along the Afghan border. Thus international pressure will increase on Pakistan.

Well, take this: ISI activates its sleeper cells inside India. Terrorists strikes take place in India which are blamed on Pakistan, back to square one, Indian Army back to the border, Taliban issue again at the backfoot and Indo-Pak tension at the forefront. Pakistan has many options while dealing with India, while India doesnt have that much of a choice.
- Posted by Umair

That might work a few times (Kabul embassy bombing, Mumbai attacks, etc.) but the world is running out of patience. NATO has already begun building alternative supply routes. And a large part of the US troop increase is simply because they want to push right out to the Durand line (they don’t trust the PA to keep its end of the bargain).

Keep in mind this war like all wars will end some day. And then the tolerance for these kinds of activities will be even less. Don’t forget that Clinton came damn close to declaring Pakistan a state sponsor of terrorism. And if there was no Afghan war on, it’s quite realistic to assume that such a designation would well have come after the Mumbai attacks where American citizens were killed by Pakistani terrorists (it does not matter if they were sanctioned by the state or not). When this war ends, and Pakistan matters less to not just the US but the world, such activities and bluster will result in Pakistan ranking right up there with North Korea.

Lastly, keep in mind that if NATO loses in Afgahnistan, the US won’t just walk away with its tail between its legs. A whole generation of US politicians will have come of age learning that Pakistan (their ostensible ally) worked to undermine US efforts in Afghanistan while India (a foe in a previous era) worked hard to help the west out in Afghanistan. What do you think will result out of making an enemy of the US while squandering the good will of the rest of the Western world?

I am hopeful that Pakistani leaders understand this and start the slow and painful process of turning the ship around before it smashes on the rocks. At this point, it’s not about what happens in Afghanistan. It’s about what comes next.

—Debating ‘war strategies’ of if’s & but’s is kinda stupid on our part, further if it’s not the IA that’s patrolling the borders, but the BSF, then more the reason -why bend backwards(how does a few km’s in or out matters)…
- Posted by anup

Were a treaty to be concluded, it’s not just global good will (which should not be undervalued) but also strategic warning time that would be gained by both India and Pakistan. For example, let’s say the treaty stated that there was to be no armour within 100km of the border. If India’s intelligence learns that Pakistani armour is moving to the border they would have at least 1 full day to mobilize. Strategic warning is a valuable commodity for any field commander.

Aside from that, by simply offering the treaty India has a lot to gain. You could in theory tailor it so that Pakistan would refuse. For example, if India offered to move all its armour 200 km inland. For India, that’s not a big deal. For Pakistan, 200 km is huge. They would say no, of course and come of looking like the belligerent ones. I think that’s one of the points the authors were trying to make which might have been missed by some of us readers.

Posted by Keith | Report as abusive
 

Indians are simply too insecure to lessen their huge army presence in Kashmir (500K) troops, or move their army back from the Indo-Pak border (500K) more.

You hear Indians comparing themselves to China these days and even Indian generals talking about being worried about China but their actions don’t reflect their rhetoric.

The whole peace process launched in 2004 looks now like a fraud perpetrated on Pakistan by the Indians who took maximum advantage of the process without giving anything in return. A return to the Kashmir Jihad is preferable, as it kept the Indians bogged down in Kashmir and the dispute alive internationally.

 

Keith
We know very well, Pakistan was betrayed last time when the Soveits left Afghanistan it was then when US left the mess and downgraded Pakistan’s strategic importance.
Pakistani intelligence now keeps close links with Taliban and has its strategic meetings with them.Why? because one day US will leave the region. Pakistan is making the west/US/NATo pay a higher price for cooperation this time. And that is the way it should be, Pakistan will not let itself be used and dumped later. And believe me, a nuclear armed muslim nuclear power, a strategic Pakistan rapidly expanding and upgrading its nuclear programme by making plutonium based nuclear weapons, Pakistan is too important a country in the regon for the US. Is the US willing to make an enemy out of the only muslim nuclear power around the world. Does the US really knows where are all of Pakistan’s nuclear weapons? Does the US feel confident enough to face Pakistani Military sitting on a nuclear stockpile of weapons?
Come on Keith, I know you will tell me you guys have superb technology , that you will send in an MQ-9 Reaper predator and track me down, that the US can bomb and flatten Pakistan within minutes. Ask the Indians, they are having an hard time for long, they will teach you a thing or two about Pakistan. Thankfully we also have our scientists working round the clock on deadly and lethal technologies and creating weapons of mass destruction. Now ofcourse, we are not insane and bloodthirsty hounds. We want to live with honor and dignity and peace thats all, and if someone mess with us, we know how to strike terror in the heart of enemies. Dont take me wrong Keith, I am against killing of innocent people. I mean only to fight back in case war is imposed.

Cheers and Thanks, dont leave Pakistan alone this time, we were betrayed last time too. We are playing the frontline state yet again, the war on terror might be going on at many fronts, but it will be won or lost in Pakistan ultimately. Lets hope we win and finish the terrorist who create mayhem on a daily basis. And while you think India is your greatest friend, dont forget you have a stake in Pakistan too. I hope you make the right choices this time, because i dont want you to complain and accuse ISI have playing double game. Because ISI is very notorious, if someone plays double games with Pakistan, the ISI starts playing double game with them.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Now the Taliban will start the urban warfare and the Pakistani military is going to face a brick wall after that.
- Posted by Mauryan

I agree. I think, the latest Lahore attack marks the beginning of an all-out onslaught by the Taliban in coordination with other extremist groups. I don’t think that Taliban’s recent ultimatum to Pakistani civilians to leave their big cities, is a hollow threat. They might lay low for a while but they’ll be back with a vengeance & that will bring about the eventual demise of Pakistan.

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive
 

Amir Ali
“A return to the Kashmir Jihad is preferable, as it kept the Indians bogged down in Kashmir and the dispute alive internationally.”

I agree with you, lets hope veterans of ISI’s Kashmir wing are called back to re-start the good work they had been doing. We really need to pull our socks. The Indians are getting too casual and loosing respect of Pakistan’s territorial integrity. Once confronted with the possibility of loosing control of Kashmir, they will care much less to dismember Pakistan. For us remaining pro-active and employing a policy of preemption is the only way ahead.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Mortal
“I agree. I think, the latest Lahore attack marks the beginning of an all-out onslaught by the Taliban in coordination with other extremist groups. I don’t think that Taliban’s recent ultimatum to Pakistani civilians to leave their big cities, is a hollow threat. They might lay low for a while but they’ll be back with a vengeance & that will bring about the eventual demise of Pakistan.”

-what happened in Lahore was proof Pakistan Army f*cked the terrorists hard in Swat. These were desperate attacks by terrorists who are on the run. Pakistan has pounded them with tons of artillery and air power. F*cked in Swat they are trying to lay their hands on anything they can destroy in the cities. So for now we see the demise of terrorists in Swat while rest of Pakistan is pretty much prepared to take them on. People in the cities have more resources and are better equipped to deal with the terrorist.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Aussies are now targeting Indians in the virtual world with hate blogs after reports of racial attacks against Indian students.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/index.php?o ption=com_magazine&opt=section&ptype=vid eo&videoid=44542&sectionid=86&secid=0

well done Australia, Pakistan supports you. This is what the Indians deserve.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Aamir,

The Indo-Pak peace process began in 1999 and not in 2004. It’s Pakistan who is unable to honor or hold on to its part of commitments it makes during peace agreements. Please read Steve Coll’s account of the progress made during back-channel peace process which took off in 2004. By 2007, Musharraf could not sell the agreement to Pakistanis and asked for more time. He soon lost office and the talks stalled.

It’s sad that a sovereign nation like Pakistan continues to conduct its foreign policy in Kashmir by using poor Punjabi lads as sacrificial lambs under the name of jihad. What is worse is someone like you approving it.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive
 

Umair says:

“Amir Ali
“A return to the Kashmir Jihad is preferable, as it kept the Indians bogged down in Kashmir and the dispute alive internationally.”

I agree with you, lets hope veterans of ISI’s Kashmir wing are called back to re-start the good work they had been doing. We really need to pull our socks. The Indians are getting too casual and loosing respect of Pakistan’s territorial integrity. Once confronted with the possibility of loosing control of Kashmir, they will care much less to dismember Pakistan. For us remaining pro-active and employing a policy of preemption is the only way ahead.”

–> It is apparently clear then, Pakistan’s military elite want to continue to foment more trouble in Kashmir and proliferate militantism and terrorism against India.

Let me ask you Umair, do you feel that India has a right to defend its territorial integrity against Pakistan, or should India just fold and “do nothing”.

I am curious to see what you sense of fairness is towards your Indian blood ancestors.

Just remember Umair, the militants do not like your military kind, as you said before, you have just escaped bxmbings by minutes, I think you are going to see Urban Carnage In Pakistan in the coming future it is tough to pinpoint a timeline, but muslims will be killing muslims in a religio-political war.

The military types will be in their cross-hairs and they don’t care about their own lives.

Pakistan is on the verge of unhinging. Get some good security for yourself. The militants don’t care that you are a muslim, but they hate you and your kind and what you represent.

Your police and military will be unable and incapable of stopping them, once they start the carnage in your cities. The militants will cause the dimemberment of Pakistan as the urban insurgencies and sleeper cells awake.

India will only be an observer. Pakistan will collapse and disintegrate, without India even firing one bullet, it has already started. The ethnic separation and hatred against the Punjabis in pakistan runs too deep.

Are the Fauji’s willing to confront Punjabi militants?

No? that is when the heart of Pakistan has truly begun to fall, is when Punjab is overrun by the guys with beards, better grow one, buddy, you might be able to bargain better for your own welfare.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

well done Australia, Pakistan supports you. This is what the Indians deserve.
- Posted by Umair

Lmao. Says a Pakistani, who probably can’t even get a visa for Nepal these days, let alone Australia or the west. I’m not even going to mention as to what the world thinks about Pakistanis as it is quite common knowledge. It’s good that you are displaying your hate in the open now, for all to see. I pity you. You may enjoy Indian adversity but Indians still feel sad for the millions of Pakistanis suffering due to the carnage in Pakistan. I truly hope that you represent a negligible minority of Pakistanis because if that’s not the case, your country is most certainly doomed.

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive
 

@Umair,

Your territorial integrity and sovereignty is already under attack by militants. You need not worry about India, India is a fictitious war, only in your mind and in your historical propaganda books.

Feel free to nxke them (the militants), as you said you would nxke India. The Truth is that your army is incapable of engaging the militants in an urban insurgency. As your army loses ground in the cities, your Fauji’s on the eastern border with India remain locked for a cold-start war.

This will be the failure and where pakistan will ascede ground to foreign militants in the cities. It will be too late eventually for Pakistan. Old hatreds against India will not help it maintain territorial integrity.

Have a nice day.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

Sanjeev Miglani

I am still waiting if you have the moral courage to admit India did mess up a little in 1971 by intervening in East Pakistan political crisis.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Umair says:

“Sanjeev Miglani

I am still waiting if you have the moral courage to admit India did mess up a little in 1971 by intervening in East Pakistan political crisis.
- Posted by Umair ”

In 1971, India did the right thing by opening its borders up to Bengali refugees who were being genocided at the hands of West Pakistan, 3 MILLION, in fact. They were fleeing persecution and death from Pakistan, hindus and muslims alike.

India did the moral thing in 1971 by engaging Pakistan and saving millions of more hindus and muslims from further genocide by the Pakistani Army, who engaged in systematic elimination of Teachers, Doctors, Engineers, Lawyers and any educated people and in fact they were murdered at point blank and shot in the head, murdered in cold blood. See link:

http://www.gendercide.org/case_banglades h.html

Pakistan is unrepentant of its past and will continue to repeat its mistakes by starting wars on others.

Everybody should commemorate 1971 as the “Bengali Holocaust” and Bengali Liberation from the then West Pakistani Tyrants.

1971 – Three Million Humans Genocided by Pakistan

End of story. Let history be the true judge.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

Umair,

It seems the truth hurts and you would rather avoid it and hurl insults at Sanjeev.

Please leave the blogs, you shame Pakistan by being here.

If you looked at the pictures of Pakistani genocide and have any shred of humanity, you would quit making India the antagonist all the time.

Look at the pictures and see what your precious Fauji’s did to unarmed innocent civilians.

Let those images burn into your occipital lobe. Pakistani’s don’t probably even know about it. The world does and we will never forget.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

Umair,

Pakistan is unrepentant for the Bengali holocaust and so are you.

Please just go away. You have no righteous or moral claim of any kind.

Spend your energies taking advice from the west and india on how to fight militants.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive
 

for umair and other pakistani friends.
Read this on 1971 India-Pak war.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/l ibrary/report/1984/KRG.htm

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Global watcher:
“It seems the truth hurts and you would rather avoid it and hurl insults at Sanjeev.”

I dont think i hurled insults at Sanjeev Miglani, all I am stating is Sanjeev Miglani should not show bias. Why does he seem to be so insensitive to Pakistanis. He mentioned Mumbai 26/11 attacks and that Indians are not in good mood. I am only telling Sanjeev Miglani to understand there is bad blood between the two countries. India also did things in the past that makes us hate India.

Let it be a challenge to Sanjeev, just state one line which should be something similar to :”yes, India also is responsible for behavior in the past that made Pakistanis distrustful of India”.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Sanjeev Miglani
“The wounds from the 26/11 attack on Mumbai for which the Pakistan-based group Lashkar-e-Taiba has been held responsible, remain fresh for a large number of Indians. They are not in a mood to forgive or forget.”

-The wounds from 1971 war on East Pakistan for which Indira Gandhi has been held responsible, remain fresh for a large number of Pakistanis. They, too, are not in a mood to forgive or forget. :)

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Umair writes: “I am still waiting if you have the moral courage to admit India did mess up a little in 1971 by intervening in East Pakistan political crisis.”

Umair,

Even without India’s interference, Bangladesh would have happened. Just like now, Pakistani military ran out of options. Bengalis completely turned against their West Pakistani brothers. Your military, in order to deflect an internal strife, would have attacked India anyway and India would have retaliated.

Pakistanis have no moral right to question India’s moral right in East Pakistan. Right from 1948, Pakistan has been intruding into Indian territory using proxy elements and trying to disrupt normalcy. So Pakistan was already doing to India, what India decided to do to Pakistan. And I support India’s tactical move in East Pakistan. If we had not done that in 1971, by now Pakistan would have staged operations from East Pakistan and with China’s help, dismembered North Eastern India. This is what we saw coming. So we had to act pre-emptively, when the opportunity presented itself.

And I believe now, based on your comments and the general comments and articles that I read in some of Pakistani magazines like Pak Tribune, from an Indian stand point, Pakistan is better off split into smaller nations. Your military has damaged your country and your minds tremendously. And there is only one possible course for this attitude that you and similar Pakistanis exhibit. But this is not an immediate thing to worry about. If Pakistan did things right from here on, there is a chance to recover and become a healthy nation. But the choice is yours. If you still believe in engaging India ad infinitum, your fragile economy will collapse. Without money, it would be hard to control the internal strife. Your country is being watched by every power in the world carefully now.

At least, as people, try to become responsible. Only then your military’s attitude and control can be changed for the good. Otherwise, no matter how much you list your military’s arsenal, they might have to nuke their own people if things get out of control. The enemy is within and not outside. And anyone can capitalize on your situation. And do not think the US will not.

Keith, may be you can tell now how India is supposed to trust the Pakistani establishment and reduce its troops in Kashmir. You can see how Pakistani pride has turned into intractable hate towards India. It should not be surprising to see our reaction. But it is not hatred for sure.

 

@“Secondly, all this accusation of Pakistan sponsoring terrorism and harboring terrorist infrastructure is just YOUR BS propaganda Sanjeev.”
-posted by Umair

So Umair, you like “Myra” so much who pretends play siding with Pakistanis and any neutral view point by “Sanjeev” is unpalatable to you. Hypocrisy!

Also in all these posts now you are commenting like a Kayani or Pasha, while on “is LeT a terrorist group?” you said you are not a defense minister of Pakistan.

Sanjeev: If you notice, the discussion was going on the track untill Umair posted a train of messages.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

Umair,

You would not have asked for moral courage from Sanjiv if you knew the turn of events that went from 1947 through 1971 in East Pakistan, aka Banladesh. It’s a pity that your knowledge is limited to what is written on the blogs and what is printed in irresponsible Pakistan media.

Besides, how is Bangladesh related to solving the border dispute in Kashmir?

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive
 
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