What was the message behind the bombing in Pakistani Kashmir?

June 28, 2009

The suicide bomb attack on the Pakistan Army in Pakistani Kashmir on Friday was not only unprecedented; it also raised questions about the state of militancy in Pakistan.

At its simplest level, the first suicide bombing in Pakistan’s side of Kashmir was seen as a reaction by the Pakistani Taliban to Pakistan’s military campaign against them in South Waziristan. “The militants are hurting and they are reacting. And this is a reaction to the successful operations we’ve had in Waziristan and we’ve had in the Malakand division,” Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi told Reuters.

The Pakistani Taliban claimed responsibility for the attack in Muzaffarabad, the capital of Pakistani Kashmir, while a government official described the bomber as a Taliban militant from Waziristan.

What is puzzling, however, is the decision to target Pakistani Kashmir. While there are historical links between Pakistan’s frontier tribesmen and Kashmir dating back to partition, as discussed by Indian strategic analyst B. Raman in this article, the region has until now been the preserve of Punjab-based militant groups focused on fighting India in Indian Kashmir. The biggest of these, the Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), has avoided staging attacks on Pakistani targets, and of all the militant groups operating in Pakistan, it would be expected to be critical of attacks on the military.

Why, therefore, would the Pakistani Taliban attack the Pakistan Army on the LeTs home turf? And why would Pakistani Taliban leader Baitullah Mehsud risk alienating the LeT — blamed for last November’s attacks on Mumbai — by sending one of his men to launch the first suicide bombing in Pakistani Kashmir and then openly claiming credit for it? An accident of the mayhem spreading in Pakistan, a sign of greater cooperation between the two groups, or a deliberate message from him to the LeT?

There has been speculation in the past among security analysts about how far the Pakistan Army and its powerful Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) agency have been using contacts in the LeT — which the ISI once nurtured to fight Indian rule in Kashmir — to seek information to use against the Pakistani Taliban and its al Qaeda allies.  That speculation dates back to the arrest of  senior al Qaeda leader Abu Zubaydah in an LeT safe house in Faisalbad in 2002.

But in the murky world of Pakistani militancy, nobody has ever been able to work out exactly how the different groups fit together, and in particular on the extent to which they shift between cooperation on a shared agenda and competition between their many different objectives – from Afghanistan to Kashmir to global jihad to targetting the Pakistani state itself.

The attack in Muzaffarabad probably provides an important clue. What is much harder, however, is to work out how to decipher that clue.

47 comments

We welcome comments that advance the story through relevant opinion, anecdotes, links and data. If you see a comment that you believe is irrelevant or inappropriate, you can flag it to our editors by using the report abuse links. Views expressed in the comments do not represent those of Reuters. For more information on our comment policy, see http://blogs.reuters.com/fulldisclosure/2010/09/27/toward-a-more-thoughtful-conversation-on-stories/

The message is loud and clear. No matter how much the military boasts of its victories over militants and keep fooling the ordinary Pakistanis, militants attacks show that they are alive and kicking.
How can the military claim that they have won over the militants in Swat when the militant leaders openly claim that they themselves have retreated as part of their strategy.
Maybe the ordinary Pakistanis love to be fooled by their military in spite of continuing militant attacks in the rest of the country.

Posted by Sunny | Report as abusive

I suspect the RAW. These are the moments, spy agencies get involved and increase the chaos. It is unfortunate.

Nothing is so clear cut in these quasi army/quasi terrorist forces in pakistan.

I believe there are multiple centers of power in pak army/isi and pak terror organization, who are offen loggerheads with each other. You cant expect consistence behaviour from them specially in these turbulent times.

Its not sheer coincidence that only those army generals who are deemed loyal to army chief/dictators are posted in garrisons near the capital.

From what I understand Gilani is close to Army and they form a block who want to wait out the US involvement in the sub continent, they are keen to retain the “Strategic Depth”. The other group is of Zardari and lot of army generals who are wanna be army chiefs (Kayani is due to retire soon). There might be other groups, each with thier own agenda.

These various army/isi factions have close links to terror organizations (CIA still maintains that pak generals still maintain contacts with Mehsud faction). This is a link about how some pak generals were involved in murder of French engineers because of some kickback issues.http://www.france24.com/en/200906 19-pakistan-france-probe-2002-killing-en gineers-karachi-submarine-money-commissi on.

Long story short, pakistan’s government and state agencies are still living in the medivial times, while the world has moved ahead.

Posted by indian1127 | Report as abusive

Myra,

Pakistan is a country where there is always some shadowy regime playing their games. I would not be surprised if one terrorist group is pitted against other. I fear the whole sub-continent is going to get drowned in this menance.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive

There is a significant Indian security and intelligence setup in Afghanistan. This presence goes beyond the reconstruction projects involving Indian companies. And it has the blessings of some of the pro-Indian warlords who are part of the Karzai government. Some of the seniors in the new Afghan intelligence have actually lived with their families in India ever since the Mujahideen seized Afghanistan. These ‘Indian-Afghans’, so to speak, were relatives of members of the pro-Soviet Afghan communists. India was a Soviet ally and actively helped the soviets consolidate their presence in Afghanistan, much like what the Indians are doing today under a US-controlled Afghanistan. This attack in Pakistani Kashmir is not the first. It was preceded by threats made by the Pakistani Taliban against Kashmiri mujahideen settled in northern Pakistan. The Pak-Taliban asked the Kashmiris to fight Pakistan instead of fighting India. Tht was weird. The Pak-Taliban never repeated the threat because the few Pakistanis who noticed didn’t like it. There is no question about some form of Indian infiltration into this terrorist outfit called Pak-Taliban that is killing and butchering Pakistanis without mercy.

For those who deny this, I have a question: If you were an Indian, and you know there is a Pak-Taliban that is asking Kashmiris not to fight Indian and fight Pakistan instead, wouldn’t you be interested in getting to know them better?

A Kashmir moment for Pakistan!

Pakistan tenth on ‘failed states’ list

“The top 10 failed states on the latest list are: Somalia, Zimbabwe, Sudan, Chad, Democratic Republic of Congo, Iraq, Afghanistan, Central African Republic, Guinea and Pakistan”

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp  ?page=20096\29\story_29-6-2009_pg1_3

Posted by Tony | Report as abusive

…they are quickly running out of places to bomb in Pakistan. :)

Posted by Akhil Singh | Report as abusive

Speculated correctly, the Indian agents are not the only ones involved here surely there is a cocktail. The CIA thinks they are smart in causing unrest. RAW probably thinks its even smarter by creating all these problems purposely and then delaying Kashmir. Unfortunately, both will most likely lose out and suffer massive losses in this dangerous game.

Posted by dealwithKashmir | Report as abusive

Here we go again. No sooner have the culprits admitted that the bombing was there doing that we still have to read jingoism of RAW/CIA/Mossad…etc from Pakistanis. If Pakistanis want to point fingers then let them bring forth tangible proof. India did it with Kasab for the Mumbai attacks.

Ahmed, tailoring questions to suit your answers is not proof. It is the desperate attempt not to acknowledge your own country’s problems. Pakistan is not living, its surviving and on borrowed time:
-Saudi Ariabia is deferring your oil payments.
-You have taken IMF loans, but want all previous ones from 2005 written off.
-You are receiving $1.5 billion a year from the USA (American tax dollars) to keep your economy afloat.

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive

The right wing Indian hating pro-islamic Ahmed Quraishi again makes assertions without any proof

“There is a significant Indian security and intelligence setup in Afghanistan. This presence goes beyond the reconstruction projects involving Indian companies. And it has the blessings of some of the pro-Indian warlords who are part of the Karzai government. Some of the seniors in the new Afghan intelligence have actually lived with their families in India ever since the Mujahideen seized Afghanistan. These ‘Indian-Afghans’, so to speak, were relatives of members of the pro-Soviet Afghan communists. India was a Soviet ally and actively helped the soviets consolidate their presence in Afghanistan, much like what the Indians are doing today under a US-controlled Afghanistan. This attack in Pakistani Kashmir is not the first. It was preceded by threats made by the Pakistani Taliban against Kashmiri mujahideen settled in northern Pakistan. The Pak-Taliban asked the Kashmiris to fight Pakistan instead of fighting India. Tht was weird. The Pak-Taliban never repeated the threat because the few Pakistanis who noticed didn’t like it. There is no question about some form of Indian infiltration into this terrorist outfit called Pak-Taliban that is killing and butchering Pakistanis without mercy.

For those who deny this, I have a question: If you were an Indian, and you know there is a Pak-Taliban that is asking Kashmiris not to fight Indian and fight Pakistan instead, wouldn’t you be interested in getting to know them better?
- Posted by Ahmed Quraishi ”

Mr. Quraishi, I know with the recession, times are tough, it is sad to see unintellectual, uninformed, fear-mongering conspiracy laden folks like you still trying to slew half-truths, some lies and unfounded conspiracy stories to the right wing Pakistani’s and right wing Pakistani diaspora. In a tabloid like fashion you spread lies and half truths to make money from all of this, intermixed with religion and politics, your stands on topics are flimsy at best.

You are unapologetic and unremorseful for those who inflict carnage on poor unarmed civilians, ie Mumbai and you are complicit on Islamic Militant terrorism and casually dismiss it as plots my the U.S., RAW or Mossaid to deface Islam, Pakistan or anybody you sympathize with.

You never offer any credible proof of anything. You are determined to maintain hate, separation, religious divisiveness.

Is it any wonder why you are not a part of a true mainstream media, you could not hold a candle to even them worst of Tabloid writers as you have no credibility and never offer even a shred of proof.

I am sure you will continue to lure inwards individuals who are dealing with their own psychological issues as you maybe dealing with your own, only you know.

Please quit giving so much credit to RAW, CIA, MOSSAID and any other things you can think of, you are elevated their status to untouchable.

I am sure you will continue to serve the underbelly of extremist right-wing Pakistani society, which through any means would love blame everyone for their problems.

You have done nothing redeeming for this world. Shame on you for perverting peoples minds. This is my observation and opinion.

You forgot to include Green Aliens from Mars who are also trying to destroy Pakistan.

Other people may decide what they wish.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

Ahmed Quraishi says:

“For those who deny this, I have a question: If you were an Indian, and you know there is a Pak-Taliban that is asking Kashmiris not to fight Indian and fight Pakistan instead, wouldn’t you be interested in getting to know them better?
- Posted by Ahmed Quraishi ””

Sorry Mr. Quraishi, as an Indian, I do not want to touch any militants with a million foot pole, even if they are trying to fight the Pak Army or destabilize its Gov’t.

You don’t know Indians very well, we don’t hate Pakistani’s we don’t want your gov’t or army people hurt by any Extremists, we want you to be productive, prosperous and get along with your neighbours. We want you to be stable and coherent as a Governemt, but you Pakistani’s are too busy fighting and murdering each other and too often there is a lack of accountability for one’s actions and what one says it is often blamed on “outside sources”.

We only ask a few simple things from you:

1) Quit preaching institutionalized and state sponsored hate to little children and adults alike from Grade School to the Pak Army Cadet Training manuals. Indians have red blood too, our blood is not green, we are not demons, we are also human beings.

2) Always tell the truth, never hurl lies and conspiracies, expecting and hoping that people will believe them, so that you can have their support, politically

3) Quit mixing religion with politics. The two have no place together. Religion is much too sacred to exist in the same domain as politics, which are often times, very perverse and dirty.

4) Realize that negative thoughts, neg. words and neg. actions have real, tangible, consequences and do not blame others for those consequences, if those words, thoughts and actions were conceived in your mind and come back to hurt you.

5) Quit planning for the destruction and murder of Indians, we want you to have what we have. Stop the terrorism, proxy wars and jihadi hate factories in your Madrassas.

6) Give women their proper equal rights, in every manner possible.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

As a Pakistani, I know that our intelligence agency and radical groups like LeT openly and covertly stage attacks inside Indian territory. From Pakistan’s standpoint, this is a leverage. Therefore, I will not be surprised about a covert Indian operation when Pakistan is on the boiling pot. Both are sworn enemies and one’s pain is the other’s gain. India used the unrest in East Pakistan to its advantage and helped dismember Pakistan. And Pakistan in return has done everything to do the same to India in Kashmir and Punjab. Based on history, I can say clearly that India is playing its dirty game. I have no problems with that. We have been in war with each other in all fronts, not just on the battle field. But only I do not want Indians to pretend to be angels. Just admit that you are party to the game.

A poorly disguised attempted distraction by the Waziristan-based Taliban.

Kashmiris love Pakistan and despise India. That is why you have never had a problem in Azad Kashmir while for 60 years there have been troubles in Indian Kashmir. The Taliban cannot change that equation.

When Pakistan came into being in 1947, Nehru & other Indian leaders were convinced that Pakistan would not last more than 6 months! A generation of Indian leadership, has gone to their graves?? with this wish unfulfilled.

Winston Churchill had good reasons to say, “India is as much a nation as the equator”.
The insecurities of India are mind bogling; 34 insurgencies, 182 lawless districts (out of a total of 600),extreme poverty for 400 million Indians. On top of that the RSS & Company want to throw out/massacre its muslim population of 250 millions. The ingrained social disparities; such as the centuries old caste system, is something where no government could do much. In order to overcome these internal contradictions, India has to create chaos arround its borders for its own survival. And so RAW is this instrument of chaos.

In Pakistan, RAW is actively engaged in fomenting trouble in Balochistan. RAW is behind the bombing of Marriot Hotel Islamabad, Sri Lanka Cricket team attack in Lahore and similiar other dastardly acts of Terrorism in Pakistan. They work through the terror networks of Al-Quaeda/Taliban/Criminals & Drug Barons located in Afghanistan and Pakistan. These terror networks are always too eager to do the bidding on lucrative terms.
It is about time that the World should start taking notice of the terrorist activities of India in Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Afghanistan & Nepal.

Posted by nko | Report as abusive

Failed State Index Rankings:
1. SOMALIA
2. ZIMBABWE
3. SUDAN
4. CHAD
5. CONGO
6. IRAQ
7. AFGHANISTAN
10. PAKISTAN
13. BURMA
17. N KOREA
19. BANGLADESH
22. SRI LANKA
25. NEPAL
57. CHINA
87. INDIA

All friends of China are topping the list. Aspiring failed state can use this as a reference. Copy this link quickly before china blocks this blog or links!

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/20 09/06/22/the_2009_failed_states_index

Posted by Tony | Report as abusive

@For those who deny this, I have a question: If you were an Indian, and you know there is a Pak-Taliban that is asking Kashmiris not to fight Indian and fight Pakistan instead, wouldn’t you be interested in getting to know them better?
- Posted by Ahmed Quraishi

Ahmed Quraishi:

As you said yourself the threat was never repeated by Taliban, meaning it was insignificant. Indians will not fall for these terrorists if you look at how Indians are dealing with terrorists of all stripes. India has moved ahead from using terrorists as tools. Also along the same lines, tell me if allegedly TTP et al are backed by Indians why Kayani did not turn down Behtula Mehsud’s open offers to Pakistan that Taliban will offer men and amunition to fight against India “after 26/11 but before SWAT peacedeal”, when these guys were clearly hand-in-glove with palistan ISI/Army. The first thing the chief of a respectable nation does is to turn down open help from terrorists like TTP—but only if they are not startegic assets against India. I partly saw your interviews with Hamid Gul and Zaid Hamid. Not to doubt their patriotism, but these guys and your kind of media are pushing Pakistan further into abyss.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Going by the comments of Pakistanis, it seems that the Pakistani Army/ISI propaganda machine is in full swing, as always blaming the deeds of their own creation on ‘RAW agents’ & the delusional and (by and large) illiterate Pakistani populace has lost the moral & mental aptitude to question them. What else can one say when as per most Pakistanis, the Taliban itself is on India’s payroll. As ridiculous & outrageous as this theory might sound to a non-Pakistani, a vast majority of Pakistanis believe it to be true simply because they want it to be true & anything otherwise would be an admittance of their own guilt.

Although, I’m absolutely certain that India had nothing to do with the attack in PoK, I actually hope that for once India does pay back Pakistan, in the same coin.

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive

Ahmed Quraishi:

In addition,

@There is no question about some form of Indian infiltration into this terrorist outfit called Pak-Taliban that is killing and butchering Pakistanis without mercy. “”
–Pakistan has no proof as pakistani govt says, so how can you say “no question”. Here is what Pakistan’s Information Minister Qamar Zaman Kaira says as reported in Dawn.

He (Kaira) said President Asif Ali Zardari’s statement that India was no more a threat for Pakistan had been reported out of context. What the president meant was that there was no imminent threat of a war, he added.

“Asked why did the government not openly say what it had told parliamentarians during an in-camera briefing that India was among the countries which were arming militants in tribal areas, he said Islamabad was not scared of New Delhi, but it could not say so without having a concrete evidence of this.”

‘We will not only raise the issue but will also take an appropriate action when a solid evidence is in hand. The government is behaving responsibly.’

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Myra, take a look at this article,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/81 25039.stm

A new perspective for many people in this blog to accept some things…

Posted by Praveen | Report as abusive

Why is it a surprise to anyone that the Taliban would spread from the NWFP to Kashmir? It’s geographically close and both areas have local populations that have been undergoing some form of radicalization (albeit for different purposes) for years. Sooner or later this was bound to happen.

And this is hardly the first attempt against the Army in Kashmir. Few months ago, the insurgents came close to cutting off the KKH. That would have really left the Army in the soup.

Posted by Keith | Report as abusive

Banned Pakistani groups ‘expand’
BBC News, Islamabad
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/81 25039.stm

-I guess, the opprotunity in 2007 was lost to reach some sort of settlement on Kashmir. Now it seems things are going back to Kargil era, if Kashmir gets more volatile it will be only a matter of time before shelling across the LoC starts.
I am very sure India is definitely upto something in Afghanistan, in response Pakistan might be taking counter measures in Kashmir. Signs of proxy war being stepped up by both sides.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Bulletfish:
@If Pakistanis want to point fingers then let them bring forth tangible proof. India did it with Kasab for the Mumbai attacks.”

—You are right. One Pakistan minister plainly says Pakistan has no proof of Indian involvement. Well then Pakistan should shut up.

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn -content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/09-p akistan-not-to-relocate-troops-from-east ern-border-szh–08

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

@3) Quit mixing religion with politics. The two have no place together. Religion is much too sacred to exist in the same domain as politics, which are often times, very perverse and dirty.
-by GW to Ahmed

GW: I agree. But I think you missed AQ’s youtube interview with Hamid Gul, where Gul says it is pefectly alright to mix religion with politics and that dissociating 2 is the Western philosophy.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Keith…

Where you from my freind? Lets see the history of your beloved country once we know where you from, unless you are a idiot sorry Indian lol hiding behind that name??

Secondly I am from AJK and we live the life to the full and as we want to. By the way KKH is not in Kashmir you fool and while I am at it this is the first incident however we the Kashmiris strongly believe its the indians that are behind it as they want to show the world that Kashmiris are terrorist sympothisers infact we are Freedom Fighting lovers and will always be till india takes out its Murderous, Rapeist, Cowrdice army out of Kashmir….

We dont care if we come aginst the whole of India to do that. They call thereselvs the biggest democracy in the world why NOT have a election in Kashmir and see how many kashmiris want to be with INDIA = NONE!!! EXCEPT for few hindus from Jammu offcourse the same ones that blocked all access to the valley.

By the way I hope all Indian sheard the firecrackers and celebration the Indian Occupied Kashmir when Pkaistan won the Cricket World CUP… ha ha Maybe that shows who they like r dislike…

India has always been aginst Pakistan, whenever n wherever they get opportunity to harm Pakistan. They will do it without hesitation and the Pak army is busy dealing with Taliban perfect opportunty for the cunning indians to harm pakistan n why wouldnt they because they are our enemy NO1.

They proved that when thgey helped the benglis in 70′s and there leader went on record to say “today we have sinked the idea of Pakistan in the bay of bengal”.

Anyway this is the best time for the Indians to be sincere and straightforward. If we dont deal with this Taliban mess (which i admit was created by the pakis but also the CIA and even they admit that). Or else I am sure that single pasli indian commandoes lol are no match for these ruthless killers…. as they proved it in Bombay 10 kids hijacked so called emerging superpower!!! IS IT?!

Posted by ali | Report as abusive

@Kashmiris love Pakistan and despise India. That is why you have never had a problem in Azad Kashmir ……
- Posted by Aamir Ali

Aamir:
Say this to a Kashmiri from Azad Kashmir (bka POK) in a neutral territory and you’ll be no more. How long can you live on the opium of religion? Ultimately you got to quit all these shenanigans and do something worthwhile for the development of POK and give political rights to people from FANA. And BTW, China loves you for gifting them a piece of Kashmir, the Shaksgam valley. Given this, I wonder which sane kashmiri will love you.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Even though the media has not highlighted the situation in Pakistan administered regions of J&K, the lack of freedom in the region is major concern.
http://thetrajectory.com/blogs/?p=630

@Ahmed Quaraishg, Deal with Kashmir and other Pakistani’s

If RAW, CIA or Mosaid are behind Taliban or other Pak’s home grown terrorism, why is there no proof and if there was, why not give it to Zardari and Gilani to give to Manmohan Singh in an official dossier?

You know why not there no proof, because India does not have a hand, pure and simple. Pakistan’s own ISI, Army and its politicians are knee deep in the brown stuff and keep blaming INdia for Islamic Militant terrorism, that is home grown.

THe public opinion of the world is against Pakistan. If it has evidence, give it to Obama and Manmohan Singh, please, do not keep indulging in fairy tale conspiracies and furthr lies as it makes you intelligence appear even weaker and makes your state agencies appear to be useless at best.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

Some of the comments here are remarkable. Pakistanis are so used to the ISI meddling inside and outside Pakistan that they could not conceive a situation where somebody else would not do the same.

Apparently the paranoia is overwhelming the ability to reason for some. What logic is there in the US and NATO spending blood and treasure in Afghanistan, yet seeking to destabilize a larger, more strategic and nuclear armed state next door? And even if beyond all logic, this was their aim, then why of all places would they target Muzzafrabad? That’s hardly a location that would matter to the stability of Pakistan as a state.

Posted by Keith | Report as abusive

Keith
Couple of points here,
1.You seem to suggest that Pakistanis are paranoid and suffer from an obsession with India. Incorrect, study the troubled relationship between the two nations since independence and the subsequent events. Genuine threat perceptions exist.

2.Pakistan ISI was trained by the CIA to conduct covert warfare in 80s against Soviets, since it is something familiar it becomes very evident when a covert war is being carried out against Pakistan.

3.True, US and NATO are paying heavy price in Afghanistan both with loss of men and monetary contributions in tough economic times. So is Pakistan Army on this side of the border. Though the intentions/strategies of coalition maybe genuine, some tactics cause instability in Pakistan. Take the drone attacks for example, similar other issues are actually pushing Pakistan against the wall.

4.The notion that Muzzafarabad would not be place of importance to destabilize Pakistan. Well again i beg to differ, knowing Pakistani Kashmir will be vulnerable can Pakistan ever devote more military resources to NWFP? Attacking Pakistani Kashmir is literally stretching Pakistan Army to maximum. I have been to Muzzafarabad and upto Garhi Dupatta near LoC, that was years back and it was heavily militarised.

5. Lastly, your Canadian Forces are mostly stationed in the South of Afgh i.e Kandhar. Can you please tell me if it is all too necessary for India to maintain a consulate in Kandahar? in such a volatile part of that country. Maybe some ‘agents’ work under diplomatic cover to supply millitants. Indian embassy website link below shows a tab ‘consulates’ clearly mentioned is one in Kandahar:
http://meakabul.nic.in/
Argument from Pakistan is that Baitullah Mehsud group of Taliban get their ammo from Afghan side of the border. Somewhere there is a spply of weapons and funding which needs to be squeezed.

Coming back to actual topic, now that Kashmir attack is blamed on Taliban, I dont see PA will quickly take on LeT head on. Atleast LeT guys seem to be under some sort of control compared to Taliban. In NWFP PA is propping Lashkars against Taliban, why not create rifts among Taliban and LeT rather than going after both and letting them unite.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

@By the way I hope all Indian sheard the firecrackers and celebration the Indian Occupied Kashmir when Pkaistan won the Cricket World CUP… ha ha Maybe that shows who they like r dislike…
-Ali

-I heard the firecrackers very clear, but not loud enough. You know the reason, a majority of Kashmiris remained silent inside their homes.

@They call thereselvs the biggest democracy in the world why NOT have a election in Kashmir and see how many kashmiris want to be with INDIA = NONE!!!

-You are out of touch with the news. There always were elections in Kashmir. If you paid attention to the progress towards elections for state and center govt, you will not say what you said. Separatists are allowed to contest elections but they have been too scared to contest for obvious reasons–the defeat but they label that as boycott. Well this year’s Loksabha elctions, separatist leader Mr. Sajjad Lone was brave enough to try his luck from Baramulla, but lost his bid. BTW, the voter turn out in Baramulla was 40%, which was comparable to Mumbai’s 43%.

@Secondly I am from AK and we live the life to the full and as we want to.
-Really!!! You must have surprised Kashmiris who really live in AK, not Lahore. Who is AK’s PM? and where is he from tells the story. The oath of office for the president, prime minister of AK, ….. or the Azad Kashmir Council also incorporates the following statement: “I will remain loyal to the country and the cause of accession of the state of Jammu & Kashmir to Pakistan.”. If not, they cannot fight election, unlike in Kashmir sepratist/pro-Pak pro leaders are free to contest.

What do you say to this Human right watch report:

http://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/r eports/pakistan0906webwcover_0.pdf

“individuals and political parties who do not support Kashmir’s accession to Pakistan are barred from participating in the political process, standing for election, taking a job with any government institution, or accessing educational institutions. At least 60 proindependence candidates who belonged to the JKLF, the APNA, and smaller political parties were barred from participating in the July 2006 Azad Kashmir legislative assembly elections. Overall, HRW noted that the election process was flawed and “greeted with widespread charges of poll rigging by opposition political parties and independent analysts.”

“The Northern Areas are directly administered by the Pakistani government under the Legal Framework Order of 1994; the region is not included in the Pakistani constitution and has no constitution of its own, meaning there is no fundamental guarantee of civil rights, democratic representation, or the separation of powers.”

Azad Kashmir was divided into Northern Areas (FANA) where mostly Shia Muslims live and AK where Sunni muslims live. Is it just a coincidence that FANA does not have political rights versus Sunnis who have some rubber stamp in the form of AK constitution?

“”"Pakistan says they are our friends and India is our enemy. I agree India is our enemy, but with friends like these, who needs enemies?”"”"
—Mir Afzal Suleri, Muzaffarabad resident quoted by HRW.org

For the sake of discussion, let us talk specifics than the same old rhetoric.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Ali,

Where I am from, my ethnicity, and the colour of my skin are none of your business. Are you that racist and bigoted that you cannot judge and respond to my comments on their merits alone?

To the moderators of the forum…I strongly suggest blocking comments that ask other posters about their ethnicity. This is exactly what leads to useless back and forth slagging matches. If an individual cannot make a point or challenge another questioner without resorting epithets about the other’s ethnicity then it’s likely that they have anything useful to say at all. In this case, the other poster even went so far as to use personal insults. I would think that is an obvious violation of the rules for any forum.

Back to Ali…..

I am fully aware of where the KKH lies. And yes insurgents did attack the highway. They managed to set up a nice little checkpoint outside Chakdara. They were also controlling the Shang La-Besham road and almost the entire Shang La Pass at one point. If I recall correctly it took nearly a whole brigade during Op Mountain Viper to get all that back. I can guarantee you commanders in the Northern Areas were probably more than a tad worried that their main (actually more like only) line of communication was about to be (and actually was for a few days) cut-off.

The rest of your post I won’t respond to. It’s regular anti-India drivel and Pakistani rah-rah with little of value or substance on the topic at hand…not really worth anybody’s time discussing.

Posted by Keith | Report as abusive

Ali,

I hope this link can clear things up for you:

http://www.dawn.com/2008/05/22/top2.htm

Posted by Keith | Report as abusive

Myra:

This is an entertaining article “Pakistan army and ISI in CIA’s firing line” in Pakistan Tribune

http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.ph p?id=213075

To me it is a great work work of fiction about CIA/RAW/Mossad trio all out to destroy Pakistan.

In fact there was a commentary on it.
http://www.captainsjournal.com/2009/03/3 0/pakistani-obsession-with-india/

“Pakistani Obsession with India”
BY Herschel Smith

I hope you let it through for the sake of objectivity. My Pakistani friends will love it. I of course could not stop laughing.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Myra

Sending the link again:
The article is from March-a bit old, but still relevent about pakistan’s paranoia of CIA/Mossad/RAW.

http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.php  ?id=213075

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

After reading some delusional comments from Pakistanis it’s hard to decide whether to laugh or to cry. When the US left Afghanistan after Soviet war, Pak complained that the US left them stranded. Now, when the US is back in Afghanistan, Pak complains that they are meddling in the country’s affairs. Pakistanis conveniently forget the billions of dollars and weapons they received from the US; then and now.

Posted by Nikhil | Report as abusive

My Indian friends are picking itsy-bitsy information that suits their arguments. Pak Tribune may be writing fancy conspiracy filled articles. This does not mean that we all read them for breakfast and start acting based on what the articles there say. I am sure India or other countries have similar magazines too. We have excellent writers and a free press. We can think for ourselves, thank you. We are in a crisis. It does not matter what the cause is. It needs to be addressed right now. And it is an intense time. When facing situations of this kind, we cannot discount any and every possibility. India’s nefarious schemes can never be downplayed, especially by us the Pakistanis. Your hands are not clean to claim any moral high grounds. You supported Mukti Bahini and helped dismember our country. You have indulged in backing the militants in Sri Lanka until they turned against you and assassinated your leader. Likewise, the Taliban has turned against us. So if you could act against your own creation, so could we. This does not mean that we will disappear into dust. Every nation and community has resorted to “my enemy’s enemy is my friend” philosophy. So it is not naive on our part to look at Indian covert support to the Taliban at a time like this. Right now, the Taliban is against us, though they were created by Pakistan. And India has historic record of using our enemies against us. We are being cautious and we will believe our sources more than anyone else’. So why can’t you people look at it from our stand point and understand it? I can bet it will be no different for you if you faced what we are facing – we have a super power pressing against us, while an internal enemy needs to be obliterated. Didn’t your military fight the Khalistani militants? You even had to destroy their Golden Temple to eliminate them. So do not have one rule for you and another rule for others. We will bite the bullet and tough it out this time. And we will come out stronger. And do not sit pretty. You can face the same thing in your own backyard. Pakistan need not have anything to do with it. So do not celebrate.

Not only India is the largest country in South Asia, in fact in all spheres of life, its role in South Asia, should be overwhelming, considering its size, history & geography.

In 1979, when Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan, the Indian Prime Minister Charan Singh congratulated Leonid Brezhnev. Later on when GWB was planning to attack Afghanistan, the Indian Prime Minister Vajpaye begged him to allow Indian Troops to be included in the picknic.

For 30 Years since the invasion of the Soviet Union and the ensuing civil war in Afghanistan, Indians were sitting on the sideline enjoying the bloodbath, while Pakistan had to cope with the humanitarian crisis of 3 Million Afghan Refugees, not to mention a raging war on its western border. Now that a few fire crackers have fallen in the Indian backyard, suddenly the are feeling the heat and have turned their cannons on Pakistan. This is typically Indian style.

In short India has miserably failed South Asia in providing leadership. What to talk of Leadership, its relations with Nepal, Bhutan, Sri Lanka, Maldives, Bangladesh have always been strained.

Due to its insecurities and other constraints, Pakistan’s handling of its Afghanistan affairs, may have been deficient in many ways. However the entire blame of the current regional situation does not rests with Pakistan alone. The US has come forward and accepted their part of the failing.
Will India, the emerging super power, step up to own its share ?

Posted by nko | Report as abusive

@Due to its insecurities and other constraints, Pakistan’s handling of its Afghanistan affairs, may have been deficient in many ways. However the entire blame of the current regional situation does not rests with Pakistan alone. The US has come forward and accepted their part of the failing.
Will India, the emerging super power, step up to own its share ?
- Posted by nko

–NKO, your analysis is really screwed up. why would India step up to take credit or discredit for CIA/ISI missions of breeding terrorists in Afghanistan. US did, isn;t it time Pakistan step up to say they created Taliban?
Coiuld ypu please step why Kayani et al did not say NO to TTPs offer to help Pakistan (Muslim bros) with men and ammunition against India (kaafir Hindu). It is video recorded statemnt of deputy amir of TTP. Kayani kept Mum till today untill US armtwisted Pak to act.

Buddies you had no idea what terroism is, ask India who has faced pakistan-sppnsored terrorism for unending 20yrs in Kashmir and rest of India and 15yrs in Indian Punjab by supporting Khalistan losers.

Corrrect ur records “Golden Temple was not destroyed”. Troops had to enter much like what Musharraf did in Lal Masjid islamabad. Mushy uses Indian incident to save his ass.

Pakistan is getting the taste of its medicine. Indians know all this except that ur are getting overdose of it. I hope Pakistan learns and clear up fassadis (LeT etc clan) from punjab killing Indians/Kashmiris all over India.

I hope this goes through Myra’s filter.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

@NKO, Anjum

I almost for a second thought you guys were intelligent, well read Pakistani’s and then you two had to destroy that perfect image in my mind by saying something otherworldly and distateful that India is supporting the Taliban. This is absolute rubbish.

What Muslim do you know, would side with, seek help from, make a deal with Hindus to inflict damage upon Pakistani’s muslims’s. These Taliban pride themselves on being pure of thought, action and conscience, for Pakistan just to write off their own creation and blame India is pure and absolute ludricous. What is even more funny is that you people have no evidence, it is just a fairly tale in your mind, if the Pak Army has evidence of Indian state involvement with the Taliban, please submit a detailed dossier for all the world to scrutinize and see, those in India, should be held responsible, if there is such evidence, until that happens, please keep your mouth shut,

in the words of Abraham Lincoln, the most revered U.S. President, he had some words of wisdom:

“It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt and confirm it as such”

I urge just some of my loving Pakistani blood cousins next door to think before they speak and make baseless claims without a shred of evidence or proof.

Lies are easily, believed the truth is hard to face.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

@Rajeev
I have said “Kashmiris love Pakistan and despise India” to Kashmiris and they have agreed with me. Sorry dude but the only reason the Indian flag flies in Kashmir is because of 500K Indian occupation force.

Indians should not get too excited over a few blasts in Azad Kashmir. We are aware these are just Taliban diversion tactics.

Taliban buying Pakistani children for suicide bombers
http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jul  /02/taliban-buying-children-to-serve-as -suicide-bomber/?feat=home_top5_shared

There are 10,000 Chinese workers engaged in 120 projects in Pakistan today
http://www.forbes.com/2009/07/02/ruba-ch ina-pakistan-trade-sidebar.html

Pakistanis keep thinking about Kashmir and India. Who is going to think about Pakistanis and their future?

Posted by Robin | Report as abusive

@ Aamir Ali,

Did you institute a poll and get the views of Kashmiris?

Why don’t you in fact create an exclusive poll site for Kashmiris where in only Kashmiris (POK and India Kashmir) vote? Make it foolproof though. Let it be an eyeopener for everyone in world.

Posted by Rohit | Report as abusive

@I have said “Kashmiris love Pakistan and despise India” to Kashmiris and they have agreed with me.

–Aamir Ali; What was the sample size!!! Also could you please explain the following
“Sajjad Gani Lone, a Kashmiri Indian separatist, stood as an candidate in Baramulla in 2009 Indian general election, becoming the first separatist leader to stand in a general election in Jammu and Kashmir in 20 years. He was defeated by the National Conference candidate Sharifuddin Shariq.” How do you tie this up with your statement “Sorry dude but the only reason the Indian flag flies in Kashmir is because of 500K Indian occupation force.” BTW the turn out in Baramullah was 40% much like Mumabai’s 43%.

You did not answer my “And BTW, China loves Pakistan for Pak gifting them a piece of Kashmir, the Shaksgam valley. Given this, I wonder which sane kashmiri will love you.” Why would a Kashmiri trust Pakistan, because you have a history of selling their motherland to China without their permission? Valid question, right.

Empty statements are useless, so if you could talk specifics that will be much appreciated.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Mr. Rohit: “Why don’t you in fact create an exclusive poll site for Kashmiris where in only Kashmiris (POK and India Kashmir) vote? Make it foolproof though. Let it be an eyeopener for everyone in world.”

Surely. How about the plebiscite that your country is supposed to help conduct as per the 1948 UN ceasefire resolutions? Run a free and fair poll now in occupied Kashmir and you will not like the results. And it will be an eye opener for you.

Mr. Rajeev: ““Sajjad Gani Lone, a Kashmiri Indian separatist, stood as an candidate in Baramulla in 2009 Indian general election, becoming the first separatist leader to stand in a general election in Jammu and Kashmir in 20 years. He was defeated by the National Conference candidate Sharifuddin Shariq.” How do you tie this up with your statement “Sorry dude but the only reason the Indian flag flies in Kashmir is because of 500K Indian occupation force.” BTW the turn out in Baramullah was 40% much like Mumabai’s 43%.”

Elections in Indian occupied Kashmir are famous as “rigged elections.” In fact this is what triggered the indigenous uprising in 1989. I can only accept an election there under neutral observers. Who knows who the voters were, especially when 500000 Indian military personnel were standing there with their guns pointing at the common people?

I’d suggest a better election there – Hold the plebiscite that was promised in 1948. And we will accept whatever the verdict is – independent Kashmir or joining Pakistan. Let the Kashmiris decide that. For me, as a Pakistani, even an independent Kashmir will do because it will settle the score on what India did to East Pakistan. We both lose an arm each and we are even. Until this settlement, Pakistan is not going to let go off the grip. We may be busy with another battle in our home. But this does not mean that we will give up our pursuit of fair justice that we have been waiting for the past 6 decades.

@Elections in Indian occupied Kashmir are famous as “rigged elections.”
- Posted by Mohammed Anjum

–I don’t think even the loser leader complained that the elections were rigged and for that matter anyone else in the world doubted these elections.

@I can only accept an election there under neutral observers. Who knows who the voters were, especially when 500000 Indian military personnel were standing there with their guns pointing at the common people? ”
–Describe the scene how the above could have been made sure by Indian troops. Were they standing at their shoulder or did they shut everyone who wants tp vote for this separatist inside. Considering looking a woman leads to one month HARTAL, this fiction, if it eer was a reality, tyhe valley would have been shut by now. So India can live without pleasing one person–that is “you” for the fairness of the elections.

You are like those guys: If I win, everything is alright, if I lose it is unfair—-reminds me of little kids.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Elections in India have been rigged in the past, and are rigged today. Remove the 500K occupation army, and hold elections under international observers, then we can get some credible results.

Anyways Indians got very excited over a one-off attack in Azad Kashmir.