Comments on: Escaping history in India and Pakistan http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/07/20/escaping-history-in-india-and-pakistan/ Perspectives on Pakistan Thu, 01 Oct 2015 19:31:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: PAUL http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/07/20/escaping-history-in-india-and-pakistan/comment-page-2/#comment-22006 Tue, 08 Sep 2009 19:59:36 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=3198#comment-22006 Hei ,

God is one ..We splited in to many.. see people who belives Hindus living good life with huge money and same in christians, Muslims and others are all living better (poverty too dominating in all religions)… Then Who is god?

Finally We the Intelligent Humans are Idiots..fighting and killing the innocent people with the name of GOD…

THEN WHO IS SEPARATING US THINK AND FIND OUT AND ROOT OUT THEM…..

India or china or USA or… people need peace and loving atmosphere don’t spoiled that in the name of Land and GOD.

Without people awareness Nothing will happen.
LOVE BRING THE PROSPERITY…

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By: Paul http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/07/20/escaping-history-in-india-and-pakistan/comment-page-2/#comment-22004 Tue, 08 Sep 2009 19:38:05 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=3198#comment-22004 Hei to all,

Let you people know that we in india have a peaceful life with all religions (With More freedom than in pakistan) Do not Dream that we all separated inside india …You know if some one want to do any miscreants against any minority religion it will not succeed further in india becouse here people will not allow that type of nonsense (Some political strength will do peace less situation (Temporary)that is in some area’s ok).

SO My opinion is you pakistan also come forward for peace and make your country better living place. Forgot our past you have gone out from our land y this fight and envoy lets stop and hands together throw out the polititions who want to fight and make things worst..

Y this fight for land ethr our country citizens dont have proper facilities to live.

Goverment should concentrate for people growth not in border growth.

Love All ….

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By: narendra upadhyay http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/07/20/escaping-history-in-india-and-pakistan/comment-page-2/#comment-21314 Sat, 22 Aug 2009 17:49:19 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=3198#comment-21314 pakistani people from the heart are obviosly envious of india and also are envious because they are even in the times os modernisation follow old radical rules and love bloody terrorists.

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By: Keith http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/07/20/escaping-history-in-india-and-pakistan/comment-page-2/#comment-20961 Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:27:31 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=3198#comment-20961 The wolf ate the lamb and said that they have become inseparable. You must be living in some dream land. Your Shiv Sena, VHP and BJP are volunteer organizations like the red cross. Tell the joke to someone else. Muslims have been attacked in Bombay, Gujerat, Ayodhya and Kashmir, not only by your goons, but also by uniformed soldiers.

– Posted by mohammad Anjum

The attacks on Christians, Shias, Sikhs, Hindus, Jews, etc. and the rapid decline in minorities as a percentage of the population in Pakistan says just as much if not more about the state of inter-sectarian relations in Pakistan. Say what you will about India, but at least they have far more minorities living there than in Pakistan. Moreover, Pakistan’s claim as the refuge for muslims in South Asia is getting thinner by the day as India’s muslim population continues to grow and looks set to surpass that of Pakistan. One can hardly to claim any serious oppression if their population continues to grow.

Just remember, “People who live in glass houses should not throw stones.”

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By: Keith http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/07/20/escaping-history-in-india-and-pakistan/comment-page-2/#comment-20960 Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:11:41 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=3198#comment-20960 Myra,

I have been meaning to comment for weeks on this absolutely excellent article. I just finished reading “India and Pakistan: Friends, Rivals or Enemies?” by Duncan McLeod. It provides a good realist/neo-realist perspective on the historical narrative of South Asia, the relations between Hindus and Muslims, the impact of European involvement on that balance and the eventual split into India and Pakistan. As a person of South Asian descent, it was an eye-opener. It left me with both hope and despair. And it left me wondering, just like you, if these countries can escape their history.

I do not see the Franco-German model as absolutely applicable. France and Germany were like cousins quarreling. India and Pakistan is more analogous to a sibling rivalry where both are experiencing roid rage. And the real danger here is that as both countries try to bolster their nationalism by emphasizing their differences rather than their commonalities, the threat of cataclysmic conflict grows.

The rhetoric and lack of understanding can be both ridiculous and frustrating. Indians for example, often have huge difficulties in understanding the psychological trauma that the separation of Bangladesh imposed on Pakistan. Much of today’s paranoia in Pakistan has come from this episode. Pakistanis on the other hand fail to understand India’s equal concerns about the symbolic value of Kashmir. Indians see their growth in military power as inevitable for any rising economic power. But Pakistanis look at the growing tiger in their neighbour’s yard and worry. The only way they think they can prevent the tiger from turning towards them is to keep it busy in its own backyard.

Meanwhile, Pakistanis will prattle on endlessly about the lack of Muslim rights, the failure of democracy, etc. in India. But quite often they fail to acknowledge the fact that most Indian muslims today have a standard of living well above the average Pakistani, with significantly more freedoms and rights than granted by the various oppressive Pakistani regimes to their own citizens over the years. Pakistanis can’t seem to accept that the majority of Indian muslims, while they may cheer for Pakistan during a cricket match, have no real desire to live under a Pakistani banner. And while Indians would do well, not to play down or minimize some of their failures at protecting minority rights (particularly by their more hard-line compatriots), Pakistanis would do well to learn from the Indian experience. For all its failings, India remains remarkably peaceful and cohesive given its diversity. The same cannot be said for Pakistan, increasingly riven with inter-ethnic and inter-sectarian violence that challenge the very foundations of the state. It has always struck me as unfortunate and a lost opportunity that the Pakistanis have not learned more from the Indians. Consider for example, how the well the division of Punjab in India would be applicable for its Pakistani counterpart as a move to even out the distributation of political, provide better regional and ethnic representation, etc.

Looking forward, can they overcome their history? At this point, after years of looking at Pakistan for a living, I truly believe the ball is in Islamabad’s court. India has moved on. Only the Pakistanis can decide if they want peace or if they prefer the penury that comes from diverting significant resources towards maintaining a state of belligerence with their neighbour. I’d like to hope that someday India and Pakistan would be like the EU and that borders would not matter. And I truly believe that the biggest beneficiaries of such a peace would be the Pakistanis, not as conventionally assumed the economically rising Indians. Consider the horrendous state of Pakistan today and its young population. Continued belligerence means that there will be less and less resources for the development of the country, creating the real possibility that this generation will be left worse off than their parents. Maintaining this hostile relationship has also meant that the Pakistani have had to accept relationships they would not normally prefer (becoming a client state of the US) and giving up self-reliance (client state of the IMF) as they focus meagre resources on maintaining military parity witht their neighbour (too bad they don’t compete on life expectancy, infant mortality, literacy, etc.). I firmly believe that when Pakistanis come to understand and accept the alternate reality and destiny that awaits them if they give up their belligerent relationship with India, that peace will reign supreme on the subcontinent. I am hopeful that a new generation of Pakistani decision makers who are confident and not driven by the post-1972 paranoia is starting to emerge that is capable of grasping this view and moving Pakistan-India relastions into the 21st century. They may not be in the majority yet, but they’ll get there over time. There might be peace in my lifetime yet!

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By: rajeev http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/07/20/escaping-history-in-india-and-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-20501 Mon, 27 Jul 2009 05:06:12 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=3198#comment-20501 mohammad Anjum:

Krishna’s message might sound dramatic but not untrue. your hee….hee…is no answer to his comment. It is not hunky dory in India, but if you care to watch and follow Indian Muslim’s view (their blogs), you will resrve your hee..hee for some other event. First off Pakistan is not a role model of Indian Muslims if you need to hear it bluntly. It is not me it is what the Indian Muslims say. From my personal experince living in a pluralistic society and having friends of all religions, I have no complaints with Muslims or with others and nor do they have. It does not even occur to me what religion my friend has. It is hard to understand that people living in pluralistic society find natural way to co-exist. Now you belong to islamic Republic of pakistan and that society is entirely different. This is not to blame a common Muslim in Pakistan but the fact of the mattter is that minorities in pakistan are lawfully oppressed. It is no doubt that given these scenarios an Indian is in better position to comment on communal harmony in India than a guy like you who is not exposed to the reality of it.
@Shiv Sena, VHP and BJP: Your missed many more! but what is the point? I am not a fan or follower of these org/party but BJP is a political party that has the record of ruling India as competently as any other govt. BJP started the kashmir peace process with Musharaf and the procrss was continued later by Congress. Do you get it or not? Shiv Sena, VHP et al have national agenda that has no bearing across the border. This is in diect contarst to Pakistan agenda (ARMY/ISI) of killing innocents in India in the fake name of morally supporting Kashmir freedom.
@Kashmir peace: Pakistan Army/ISI disturbed the peace in Kashmir through LeT,JeM, HuM. ISI trained LeT fought Kargil war along with regulars. In Kashmir, LeT wears Indian Army uniform and commits crime which many times are attributed to the Indian Army.

–When is pakistan going to apologize for the genocide of Million Pakistani Hindus/Muslims in the them E.Pakistan? when are you Pakistani bloggers going to talk about it.
Pakistan needs to take care of what is on the plate than putting more on the plate. Also huffing and puffing does not make you any braver or smarter. Any one can do that and Indians have all the right reasons to do so. Do what you have not been trained to do so far which is to take chill pill and focus inside pakistan.

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By: mohammad Anjum http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/07/20/escaping-history-in-india-and-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-20481 Sun, 26 Jul 2009 18:51:48 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=3198#comment-20481 Mr. Krishna: “I think that, people of any religion are welcome in India and are safe. Nobody holds anyone else in gun point in India. People of different religions live peacefully in close quarters, contribute and thrive. For example, the rice that you buy from a shop in India could have been cultivated by a Hindu farmer, taken by a Christian middle man and finally sold in a Muslim’s Shop.”

Hee, Hee, Hee…

The wolf ate the lamb and said that they have become inseparable. You must be living in some dream land. Your Shiv Sena, VHP and BJP are volunteer organizations like the red cross. Tell the joke to someone else. Muslims have been attacked in Bombay, Gujerat, Ayodhya and Kashmir, not only by your goons, but also by uniformed soldiers. A lie told a thousand times begins to sound like truth. Looks like you guys are repeating this lie over and over again. Go to Kashmir and tell me how “peace” is being maintained. Explain why Kashmiris are protesting daily against your army occupation.

People of different religions are ducking under the table in order to survive. Christian missionaries have been killed and churches burnt by your peace loving citizens. There is enough on the newspapers on that. Go read them.

“This is something India’s neighbors find difficult to understand and simply cannot do themselves. Indians call it Secularism.”

Yeah, we know exactly what you mean by your “secularism.”
So long as minorities live on the fringes with their mouths shut, “peace” definitely prevails. Tell that to those Sikhs who died at the hands of Hindu mobs in 1984.

Self-glorification is a part of propaganda and brain washing methods. While you guys accuse Pakistan of the same, please go have a look in the mirror.

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By: Krishna http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/07/20/escaping-history-in-india-and-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-20310 Wed, 22 Jul 2009 17:59:56 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=3198#comment-20310 I don’t think it is the same as the Franco-German relations before WWII. They fought an open war. Two colonial powers in Europe. Win or fail situation. Here in India and Pakistan, its a disputed territory, Kashmir. As far as economy is concerned, Pakistan milks the American cow for money and aid. This is contrary to the Indian model which, is trying to stand up on its own in all fields and has been successful.

As far as swallowing the enmity and moving forward, not going to happen as the lives of so many people on both sides have been scarred.

(Read other user’s comments). I think that, people of any religion are welcome in India and are safe. Nobody holds anyone else in gun point in India. People of different religions live peacefully in close quarters, contribute and thrive. For example, the rice that you buy from a shop in India could have been cultivated by a Hindu farmer, taken by a Christian middle man and finally sold in a Muslim’s Shop.

This is something India’s neighbors find difficult to understand and simply cannot do themselves. Indians call it Secularism. Finally, this secular nature of India make them look real bad because other nations have not grown up enough to accept people of different faith.

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By: Patrick http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/07/20/escaping-history-in-india-and-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-20303 Wed, 22 Jul 2009 16:36:27 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=3198#comment-20303 Pakistan’s ‘mock war’ on Taliban

But Mr Afridi, the ANP secretary in charge of FATA affairs, said the military was being dishonest about its operation there.

“These are mere mock operations in order to convince NATO and the US that Pakistan is serious (about fighting) extremists and that Pakistan is not the mother of extremism,” he told The Australian.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/sto ry/0,25197,25821004-2703,00.html

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By: Raj http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/07/20/escaping-history-in-india-and-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-20302 Wed, 22 Jul 2009 16:24:27 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=3198#comment-20302 Rajeev,
In the past when ever I posted these things, Myra McDonald or whoever at Reuters wouldn’t post them. Some times make me wonder if the idea of this blog is to bring peace or prolong conflict.

I don’t know how many Indians know …students are required to take Islamiat and Pakistan studies at technical and medical colleges!! The SDPI report outlines what is taught in Pakistan Studies.

Here is a link to the curriculum of Rawalpindi Medical College :

http://www.rmc.edu.pk/pros_collegesessio n.htm

If some one has any link on Hinduism studies or “India studies” taught at Engineering or Medical colleges in India, please feel free to post them.

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