The missile shield and the “grand bargain” on Afghanistan and Pakistan

September 17, 2009

Back in 2008, even before Barack Obama was elected, Washington pundits were urging him to adopt a new regional approach to Afghanistan and Pakistan involving Russia, India, China, Saudi Arabia and even Iran. The basic argument was that more troops alone would not solve the problems, and that the new U.S administration needed to subsume other foreign policy goals to the interests of winning a regional consensus on stabilising Afghanistan.

It would be simplistic to suggest that the Obama administration’s decision to cancel plans to build a missile-shield in eastern Europe was motivated purely — or even primarily — by a need to seek Russian help in Afghanistan. But it certainly serves as a powerful reminder about how far that need to seek a “grand bargain” on Afghanistan may be reshaping and influencing policy decisions around the world.

“Securing Afghanistan and its region will require an international presence for many years, but only a regional diplomatic initiative that creates a consensus to place stabilizing Afghanistan ahead of other objectives could make a long-term international deployment possible,” Barnett Rubin and Ahmed Rashid argued in their much-cited 2008 policy paper titled “From Great Game to Grand Bargain”. (pdf document).

Many of those arguments reappeared in a more recent report by the Asia Society (pdf document) — formerly chaired by U.S special envoy to Afghanistan Richard Holbrooke – so they are worth studying closely.

The ideas were ambitious and far-reaching, from remapping relations between Russia and the United States, prodding India and Pakistan towards a peace deal on Kashmir, seeking help from Iran and drawing in China and Saudi Arabia.  Some of those ideas were blown off course by the financial crisis, by the row in Iran over its disputed election, and by last November’s attack on Mumbai which undermined U.S. attempts to steer India and Pakistan towards a peace deal.

And recently, they had been almost completely drowned by the media focus on military tactics and the merits of sending more troops to Afghanistan. With the U.S. decision to cancel the missile shield, one of those ideas — about seeking Russian help in Afghanistan — may have finally managed to break above the surface again.

In the case of Russia, the question was always about what price the United States was willing to pay to win Moscow’s help in Afghanistan, possibly through less ardent support for NATO aspirants Ukraine and Georgia and a review of the missile shield due to be set up in the Czech Republic and Poland.

Obama already moved to try to assuage fears in Moscow and elsewhere that the United States might be seeking a permanent military presence in Afghanistan, a long-standing concern in Russia wary of having U.S. troops in what it sees as its backyard. “Make no mistake: we do not want to keep our troops in Afghanistan. We seek no military bases there,” Obama said in his speech in Cairo in June

But it has been unclear how much further he might be willing to compromise to win Russia’s support for what has become widely known as “Obama’s war” in Afghanistan.

As discussed in this post, the Moscow Times spelled out what it saw as the price of Russian cooperation in Afghanistan in an op-ed published before Obama’s inauguration:

“Afghanistan may well define your foreign policy legacy the way Iraq defined Bush’s,” it said. “You will need all the support you can muster, including from Iran. You will also need Russia’s support. Moscow understands that the stability of its southern flank will hugely depend on what happens on the Hindu Kush mountain range in eastern Afghanistan and northwestern Pakistan. But Moscow is torn between giving support to the West and preparing for the West’s withdrawal from Afghanistan. The latter would mean cutting deals with the Taliban locally and relying on China strategically. You can help Russia make the right choice.”

Of course, there are many other reasons for, and consequences of, the U.S. decision on the missile shield, as discussed here and here.

But if anyone wants a steer on the likely direction of U.S. foreign policy, and its implications globally, it’s probably worth rereading Barnett Rubin’s “grand bargain” proposal from last year. Diplomacy is the art of the possible, and nobody expects the recommendations to be followed to the letter. But with Obama a considerably more cerebral president than his predecessor, the old “Read my Lips” slogan probably needs to be replaced with a new one: “Read the pdf.”

(You can also find regular updates on the progress in relations between India and Pakistan – one of the key themes of that report — on “Pakistan:Now or Never”, most recently in this post)

(Reuters photos: Girl in Afghanistan; Holbrooke, Obama)

67 comments

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Run ISI run!

Obama has cleared his vision, set bench marks and coming to clean Pakistan!

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/arti cle/ALeqM5iqyaFh_efr-brDq0rMLF1hkop0tgD9 AONC2O1

Posted by Ramin | Report as abusive

The US is passing through a crucial phase in Afghanistan war. Much like Russia entered in 1979 with heavy mechanized units, then shifted to hand to hand combat with Mujahideen, failing which resorted to helicopter gunships but the Mujahideen armed with stingers again had upper hand. Fatuge set in and Moscow had to withdraw.

The US might well plan an exit strategy and Geneva accord like agreement and pull out as quick as possible from Afghanistan.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Myra, your article says:

“With the U.S. decision to cancel the missile shield, one of those ideas — about seeking Russian help in Afghanistan — may have finally managed to break above the surface again.

In the case of Russia, the question was always about what price the United States was willing to pay to win Moscow’s help in Afghanistan, possibly through less ardent support for NATO aspirants Ukraine and Georgia and a review of the missile shield due to be set up in the Czech Republic and Poland.”

–>I had suggested some time ago that Russia be brought back into the picture to provide assistance and it seems as though the States is possibly going that way. China has never done anything out of the benevolence of its own heart, except genocide unarmed Buddhists in orange robes, therefore asking China for anything is out of the question, but we should certainly ask them to stop supporting Pakistan, a septic carcass and start trying to make a friendship with India instead.

This way China can quit wasting so much effort trying to “contain” India, which in the long-run is not a sustainable policy. If China wants to contribute, it can do so by giving greater co-operation by not profilerating weapons to rogue states.

Mr. Putin needs to set aside his personal differences with the west. I worked many Russian people and found them to be amiable, hardworking, friendly and a sincere people, whom, I would prefer even having as a neighbour. On the other hand, I have worked with mainland Chinese people and on the whole they don’t like India and don’t think much of the U.S. either. Given the choice between the two, you can make an unscientific and reasonable judgement in favor of the Russians. We have a common threat: Extremist Islamicist Militants, the kind that take innocent hostages and kill unarmed civilians having coffee.

Cutting deals with Taliban terrorists is like throwing in the towel and relying on China is a “dig a hole in the ground for yourself” train of thought. China will never hold its end of the bargain on any Geopolitical or strategic arrangements.

Before any deals with Taliban are made, technology should be given a full chance to change the course of strategic battle on other lands and terrains. Next generation Drones, of sizes ranging from insects to airplanes should be utilized to win Afghanistan in those areas, where the NATO and U.S. Army’s reach is limited. Leaving without completing the mission should never be an option, there is always a way.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

Reuters Blogs Tech Support/Moderator:

I’ve been having problems with posting my comments on various articles, over the last few days & I believe that other bloggers are having the same problems. Kindly look into it.

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive

Umair says:

“The US might well plan an exit strategy and Geneva accord like agreement and pull out as quick as possible from Afghanistan.”

–>That statement is a pure piece of work, having almost comical value. Why are Paks so afraid of U.S. smashing Taliban? Why are Paks so opposed to democracy in Afganistan, its almost as though you people want to keep Afghanistan down, in the stone ages, or medieval times, or even dark ages. For some reason chaos in Afghanistan seems to suit your needs.

The United States can leave Afghanistan tomorrow, either terrorism In Pakistan must be completely elinimated(hand over Mullah Omar OBL and destroy proxy armies and/or completely denuclearize.

Despite the lackluster show on terrorism, for the benefit of the US to extort more money, Pakistan with its 7th largest Army in the world has not provided the willingness to handover Mullah Omar and OBL and Zawahiri.

If a guy like Hamid Gul claims to know his whereabouts, I am sure your state agencies do as well.

In fact, the Russians should come back to Afghanistan and build Military bases along the Durand line, since you keep claiming that they helped create this mess in the 80′s, it is only appropriate that TWO superpowers set up shop in Afghanistan, next to Pakistani border and a heavy military presence next to Durand Line to finish Af-Pak for good.

Once they finish Afghanistan, next stop should be Pakistan. If Afghanistan cannot be fixed, the next logical step is to setup shop in Pakistan and purge Pakistan for Pak Army, since they are unwilling to do it. This is cheaper than giving Pakistan money since all of it goes unaccounted for and is used to make weapons against India.

It may be cheaper just to pay the Russians to setup shop there.

The United States is there to police Pakistan, because it does not TRUST Pakistan. It is as simple as that.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

“Eleven years after India tested nuclear bombs in the deserts of Pokhran, embarrassing details about the test fizzling out have exploded into
a full blown controversy with top nuclear scientists on Thursday demanding that the government institute an inquiry to determine whether the test failed. Former nuclear czars said they were ashamed that information had been hidden.”

Indian government should ask Pakistan for help.

Posted by babag | Report as abusive

The US has made many mistakes and our neighborhood is on the brink of a collapse as a result. They will make many more mistakes, which they call as strategies. None of them have worked and they keep replacing one mistake with another. Their policies on Pakistan is an example. Musharraf openly claims that he siphoned off billions of dollars in aid towards buying arms against India. Now they got close to 4.5 billion dollars to arm themselves to their teeth. I do not know the Americans really want. They know very well Pakistan is the real culprit and the breeding ground for global Islamic terrorism. They keep telling Iran and North Korea not to have nukes, while they turned a blind eye to Pakistan’s stealthy development of nuke technology. They knew it all along, but chose to ignore it. This double standard in their principle has begun to hurt them. They need to have a consistent and steady policy that supports only democratic nations, goes after corrupt and rogue nations like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan etc. These are the real villains. Both Saudi Arabia and Pakistan must be cut to size in order to make any head way towards stability and a working government in Afghanistan. But the US is keeping these two countries as its allies and is wasting its energy fighting their shadows. Missile shields cannot prevent terrorism from growing.

Whether we like it or not — the key to peace in Afghanistan is Pakistan. Pakistan is a 170 million strong nuclear armed nation that is one of the 5 important countries in the Muslim world (others being Saudi, Turkey, Egypt, Indonesia) – and the Muslim world will be in ascendancy like China and India sooner or later – it imperative that we forge good relations with the major actors in the Muslim world.

We will have to respects Afghanistan as Pakistan’s region of influence. Likewise Obama’s overtures to Russia are hopefully a very positive development where we’re recognizing the ground realities that we cannot win in Afghanistan without making it a win-win for actors that hold sway: Primarily Pakistan and Iran and to a lesser degree Russia and China.

Posted by AfPakProject | Report as abusive

@ Babag
“Indian government should ask Pakistan for help”

Well, at least the Indian program was not stolen, they developed it ingeniously. But the sad case of Pakistan is that the program is haunted by the thief AQ Khan. Asking Pakistan for help (impossible though) would amount to proliferation, inviting persecution like sanctions from the world. India is not that foolish and stupid, not the same can be said about Pakistan

“Eleven years after India tested nuclear bombs in the deserts of Pokhran, embarrassing details about the test fizzling out have exploded into a full blown controversy with top nuclear scientists on thursday demanding that the government institute an inquiry to determine whether the test failed.”

Based on your quote, India has the common sense to institute an inquiry, but the same cannot be said about Pakistan where most of the world’s terrorists roam, and it still not only harbors the evil thief, nuclear proliferator, AQ Khan but also treats him as a father of Pakistan’s nuclear program. Commenting on Indians in this regards shows your hypocrisy.

Posted by Wooferswitch | Report as abusive

“Whether we like it or not — the key to peace in Afghanistan is Pakistan. Pakistan is a 170 million strong nuclear armed nation that is one of the 5 important countries in the Muslim world (others being Saudi, Turkey, Egypt, Indonesia) – and the Muslim world will be in ascendancy like China and India sooner or later – it imperative that we forge good relations with the major actors in the Muslim world.

We will have to respects Afghanistan as Pakistan’s region of influence. Likewise Obama’s overtures to Russia are hopefully a very positive development where we’re recognizing the ground realities that we cannot win in Afghanistan without making it a win-win for actors that hold sway: Primarily Pakistan and Iran and to a lesser degree Russia and China.”

–>How can we the world, or the U.S. trust Pakistan, after its leaders lie, lie, lie, lie and lie more. Case in point, U.S. aid money to fight terrorism, keeps on going to Pak Nuclear Factories or future attacks on India.

We are simply tired of being lied to. We are tired of inaccountability. Peace is a two way street, other countries, like Pakistan, Egypt have to do their part with peace too, and start adopting secular institutions and protecting minorities and recognizing their rights as equal human beings. I know dozens of Christians that have left Egypt, grievingly, because of how they were being persecuted and constantly harassed by the muslim brothers there.

It is also the major actors in the muslim world, that have to make peaceful overtures to the non-muslim world. I cannot even tell you the damage that is done to the muslim world’s reputation, as terror plots are continually foiled. The non-muslim world wants the moderate muslims to reject expansionist violent Islamic Jihadis, with sledgehammer force and single them out, we are tired of inaction, complacency and fear of them.

It always falls on the shoulders of Democracies to clean up the extremist Militant rubbish from other countries.

-spain train bxmbings
-Indian Mumbai 26-11
-911
-london tube bxmbings
-pak terrorism within Pak
-arrests in Germany
-18 terrorists in canada
-the list goes on and on

These are NOT christians, hindus, or buddhists, commiting these heinous crimes, these perpetrators, call themselves muslims, although after the fact, many moderates like to distance themselves and say that real muslims would not do those things, the fact of the matter is, is that moderates must do so much more and inaction is unacceptable.

We are inclusive, friendly, giving societies that recognize all religions and all peoples because we choose to do so. If serious dialogue is the goal, then those “5 important” countries must work harder to adopt core values and institutions (womens rights, equal rights, civil rights, rule of law) that are aligned with the Democratic countries, otherwise we are way beyond speaking different languages, we are in different centuries. The wahhabi and salafi extremist machine must be stopped and is a fungus on an otherwise moderate muslim world.

Religion and politics must have no place together, otherwise dialogue and and relations are always 1.0001 steps forward and 1 step back. It will take hundreds of years, at this rate to align with each other.

All religions can co-exist peacefully. We are hindu, but we kept a muslim family and their 3 children with us and had no religious problems, because we respected each other as equals. We recognized the importance of each other’s customs, even though, they may appear peculiar and strange to each other.

This is NOT a religious difference that we have, it is one of human core values. The 5 important nations should strive harder and do more, to reform their institutions and thereby core values and the culture itself, while still maintaining religious values. Both are possible, if you have the heart and courage to be dynamic, rather than static.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

Indian government should ask Pakistan for help.
- Posted by babag

And what exactly will Pakistan help India with?
Teaching it how to steal nuclear technology blueprints or teaching it how to proliferate them to rogue nations & terror outfits?

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive

The United States should never cut a deal with the Taliban. In this culture, that is tantamount to losing. Whoever crushes his opponent, wins. The appearance of power and honor are everything in the Afghan warrior mindset. The United States must appear to do this, while at the same time enabling Afghans to begin to rule themselves justly.

The politicians can talk all they want, strategize, send troops, but nothing will change without education. Afghans have gone through decades with no decent education where they are taught to critically think. They do not ask questions, nor are they encouraged to ask questions…at any level.

The coalition is trying to win the hearts and minds, but it will not last past this generation without revamping the entire Afghan educational system. This means sending in an education force, not just diplomats and water sanitation engineers.

Indian government should ask Pakistan for help.

- Posted by babag

It’s better to attempt on our own and fail rather than steal and claim success.

Posted by Sunny | Report as abusive

ISI is not the name of a person, its not a monolith. Its a dynamic organization, people with agendas to discredit Pakistan use it as a beating tool. The truth is the IS of the Zia era was the problem, initially it served its purpose when Zia filled it up with Mullahs, and helped defeat the USSR in Afghanistan, but later the Mullah filled ISI became a problem for everyone including Pakistan as they continued to coddle many a militant group including the Taliban. Today Zias legacy has been severely overturned first by the anti mullah Musharraf and now the present day protege of Musharraf, the professional General Kayani.

ISI is not the same anymore, its ranks are filled with more moderate elements.

But what I really wanted to post here was, the entire region and especially Pakistan and Afghanistan would be best served if the US took its large footprint off the region and instead took a hidden role behind the scenes in encouraging, guiding and helping both Pakistan and Afghanistan fight terrorism and face its myriad problems.

The biggest problem arises when people see an arrogant, crusading US invading Afghanistan, the foot print shoul dbe very nimble and light, instead trust your allies to do the job, Pakistan has done an excellent job in Swat, Dir, Bajaur, DI Khan, Mardan, Malakand, etc to methodically cleanse out the criminal element and if the US stayed in the background, it would help a lot more.

Pakistan needs financial support as well as military help, it is surrounded by a large enemy state India which looks for every opoortunity to harm Pakistan, the US can push India to guarantee its non interference in East Pakistan, so that more troops can be freed up. US troops are not needed in Afghanistan, instead Islamic troops from Muslim nations should take up the role…again, the US should maintain a reserved posture.

Posted by Nadeem Shah | Report as abusive

“The US might well plan an exit strategy and Geneva accord like agreement and pull out as quick as possible from Afghanistan” – Posted by Umair

What exactly do you Pakistanis want? On one hand you guys are always complaining & ranting about the US abandoning Afghanistan after the Russian war & cite the very same reason for all your problems and on the other hand, you want the US to do the same thing again? Do you have any idea about the kind of chaos which will consume Pakistan if the US leaves the region? If anything, you guys should be hoping & praying that the US doesn’t leave Af/Pak until terrorism is completely wiped out. The fact that you guys don’t want the US to succeed confirms that you actually want to save terrorism.

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive

KP Singh :
“Both Saudi Arabia and Pakistan must be cut to size in order to make any head way towards stability and a working government in Afghanistan.”

-Pakistan is nuclear power, Saudi Arabian intelligence chief visited Pakistan missile sites back in 2003 and word is there is interest by Saudi Arabia to purchase nuclear capable Pakistani missiles. Saudis themselves have latest F-15 and F-22 fighters and are armed with latest American weaponry, both countries are more than capable of keeping their territorial integrity intact.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

The US might well plan an exit strategy and Geneva accord like agreement and pull out as quick as possible from Afghanistan.
- Posted by Umair

Yeah right! And US should consider making you the President of Afghanistan! You always make me laugh.

Posted by Andy | Report as abusive

We will have to respects Afghanistan as Pakistan’s region of influence.
- Posted by AfPakProject

Do you have your own country under your influence? Your army can’t even enter Wazaristan or FATA! Are you living on US aid or IMF loan?

When you had the opportunity to help Afghanistan in 80s, 90s, you created Taliban and hosted AQ. What’s the goal this time?

Posted by Peter | Report as abusive

ISI is not the name of a person, its not a monolith. Its a dynamic organization, ..
- Posted by Nadeem Shah

There are more terrorists on ISI’s payroll that officers! It’s called a terrorist organization anywhere in the world.

When Clinton bombed UBL’s tent in Afghanistan, UBL just slipped away on tip-off from ISI, 9 ISI officers closing the tent died from Cruise missile hit.

Bush had to pause bombing Afghanistan (Tora Bora Mountanis) for 2 days, so that ISI could airlift all officers. Airlifting continued for 2 days and planes were full of Talibans and ISI agents.

Posted by Patrick | Report as abusive

Pakistan is nuclear power, Saudi Arabian intelligence chief visited Pakistan missile sites back in 2003 and word is there is interest by Saudi Arabia to purchase nuclear capable Pakistani missiles.
- Posted by Umair

Thank you! You just confirmed what I have been reading from int’l news media. I also read that Saudis funded 5-10 billions for your nukes with the condition that they can borrow 5-10 nukes if Iran acquires nukes!

You also confirm that ISI/army are bigger proliferators than AQ Khan!

Posted by Pater | Report as abusive

Umair Wrote:

“Pakistan is nuclear power, Saudi Arabian intelligence chief visited Pakistan missile sites back in 2003 and word is there is interest by Saudi Arabia to purchase nuclear capable Pakistani missiles. Saudis themselves have latest F-15 and F-22 fighters and are armed with latest American weaponry, both countries are more than capable of keeping their territorial integrity intact.”

Bunch of lies again. You need to ask yourself some questions.

Why do Saudis need Nuclear Missiles, If you don’t know, Saudis signed Nuclear Non Proliferation treaty in 1988, And declared that they have no intention to tip their 36 CSS-2/DF-3A missiles which they got from china in 1986.

And Saudis buying Nuclear Missiles from Pakistan is a Joke, They can go to China and pick any missile they want, same shop where Pakistan gets its missiles, beside North Korea indeed (In exchange of Nuclear Blueprints).

Your claim that Saudis have F-22 is WRONG, export sale of the F-22 Raptor is barred by American federal law. Japanese wanted that plane too, but they will probably get F-35 instead.

I don’t know about Saudi arabia because as long as American army Bases are there and oil Wells are not dry nobody will touch them, but Pakistan still begs for Weapons and Aid to survive, If you don’t believe me, just turn any Pakistani news channel and see how Pakistani leaders ask for economic and military aid.

Posted by singh | Report as abusive

It is way past time for the United States to stop spilling the blood of its sons in SW Asia.

“Afghanistan” is an imaginary natural-resource-poor “country” that is in reality regionally fractured. Likewise, “Iraq” is a regionally fractured but natural-resource-rich “country”.

“Afghanistan” is a “country” with no natural resources and no centralized identity.

“Iraq” is a “country” whose fractured regions can’t exploit their natural resources because of the lack of a centralized identity.

And then there is “Pakistan”. It’s “identity” is tied to India’s post-World War II “birth”.

“Pakistan” is a “country” that is imaginary as well—except that it has nuclear weapons and nuclear technology exports that somehow from time to time bring it into focus. And it is the “home away from home” of Osama bin Laden (a Saudi) and Ayman al Zawahiri (an Egyptian)—two mass murderers who shouldn’t even still be walking around—given the war technology of the United States.

Perhaps Russia can help America find and “extradite” OBL and AalZ to the United States for trial and eventual execution.

After said “extradition” takes place, the very different regions within “Afghanistan”, “Pakistan” and “Iraq” may over time find their way toward coexistence in the medieval culture that has defined their various tribes for centuries.

Posted by OKJackGroup | Report as abusive

Another Pakistani link to a suspected terror plot in New York.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32916251/ns/ us_news-security

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive

Umair: “Pakistan is nuclear power, Saudi Arabian intelligence chief visited Pakistan missile sites back in 2003 and word is there is interest by Saudi Arabia to purchase nuclear capable Pakistani missiles. Saudis themselves have latest F-15 and F-22 fighters and are armed with latest American weaponry, both countries are more than capable of keeping their territorial integrity intact.”

The way to cripple Pakistan is easy, especially for a nation like the US. You are thinking about India when you are thumping your chest as above. The US brought South Africa to its knees and Apartheid was finally removed from the face of the earth. It is letting Pakistan breathe only because of its own geo-political needs at present. It could have bombed Pakistan back to medieval times had it chosen to. Your nukes would have made no dent on their capability to do so. The only mistake it made was falling for the lies by your wily leaders. I guess it is learning its lessons. It could have settled Afghanistan had it not strayed off its course towards Iraq and wasted its energy there. It could have nailed Bin Laden had it not allowed Pakistan to house and protect all the Taliban and Al Qaeda elements. It could have let Pakistan bleed to death by denying foreign aid that it has been receiving now. Once the economy collapses, a nation simply cannot survive. It begins to spin out of control, especially a nation like yours. And the US could have used that as a main excuse to move in with its allies and take out your nukes. Do not assume that a power like the US cannot do that. When it walked into Iraq against UN objections, every country simply stayed on the side lines and watched. And in the case of Pakistan, everything it tried to justify in Iraq is there – WMDs, Islamic terrorism, and it was under a dictator at that time. Your broken down F16s and rusting North Korean missiles would be no match to the American fire power. So stop thumping your chest and realize where your country could have been if things had gone in a different way. Consider yourself lucky and try to come out of the close minded closet you people seem to be stuck into. India does not even figure in any of this analysis. It has enough crisis at home. It is about to face the Maoist insurgency face to face. If your country is not sincere in its efforts to wipe out terrorism and is only buying time by pretending to do so, trust me, the US will do something that will be long lasting. And it might be along what I have suggested.

I also read that Saudis funded 5-10 billions for your nukes with the condition that they can borrow 5-10 nukes if Iran acquires nukes!
- Posted by Pater

Saudis paid Pakistan 5-10 billions, which Pakistanis used to buy nukes from N Korea and China! Saudis are part-owners in Pakistani nukes. Saudi Arabian intelligence chief was making audits of his investment!

Posted by Sam | Report as abusive

Pakistan’s Khan unravels!

And so do the ISI/Army/Politicians!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/wo rld/asia/article6839044.ece

Posted by Andy | Report as abusive

And so do China, N. Korea, Libya, Iran, Netherland!

Posted by Andy | Report as abusive

Mr singh I dont know about thumping chest, but india was put to its place by the chinese in 1962, the way your media hyping it all up you will be put on your arse by the red army. 1965 you tried your luck by attacking pakistan in the darkness of night and i dont think took over pakistan. Blow is BBC correspondent intrviewing PAF piolets in 1965.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2ueJJKJg qE

1971 benggalis won the election should have been given power, injustice did happen and you got your chance as true enemy and helped them and bangladesh was born. Now kargil it was simply pressure by americans to pull back not exactly full millatry victory is it. Now pakistan is fighting agiainst taliban as true pakistan enemy now indian and afghan inteligence giving full support to taliban. How else can they be so well managed but i do believe both countries for their mutual intrest need to resolve the major outstanding issue of kashmir.

The rest will be all taken care of for the sake of people of india and pakistan……

Posted by ali | Report as abusive

ISI and Zardari fight spills in to the street.

ISI raids US security firm, seizes employees and arrests employees while Zardari is on US tour!

http://www.thenews.com.pk/print1.asp?id= 199436

Posted by Samer | Report as abusive

Disappointed by Chinese and Saudi aid commitments, Zardari wants India in FoDP.

Friends (FoDP) should give Pakistan 100 billion!
http://www.britainnews.net/story/544804

India should give Kashmir and investments!
http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-n ewspaper-daily-english-online/Politics/1 9-Sep-2009/Zardari-wants-India-in-FoDP

Posted by Peter | Report as abusive

Disappointed by Chinese and Saudi aid commitments, Zardari wants India in FoDP.
- Posted by Peter

This guy has a habit of making India friendly statements out side Pakistan when he needs 100 billions and quickly renounce any such statement on return to Pakistan. This is the third time in his 1 yr in power.

Posted by Robin | Report as abusive

Disappointed by Chinese and Saudi aid commitments, Zardari wants India in FoDP.
- Posted by Peter

India should never bite this bait.
1. Let US and others clean this mess. If India joins, it’ll be easy for Talibans to blame India for everything and make the FODP /US actions more complicated.
2. Looking at recent PCB behavior in ICC world cup meetings, India should learn lessons. It is India’s fault that no cricket team wants to visit Pakistan.
3. Indian aid money is not for terrorists or liars. Pakistan should first prosecute/jail (NOT house arrest) all terrorists and destroy their infrastructures before we can trust them.

This Zardatri statement has no real significance. He also asked for Kashmir and billlions from India in the same paragraph. The real truth is ISI controls everything in Pakistan and Zardari has no power outside his palace.

Posted by Robin | Report as abusive

Disappointed by Chinese and Saudi aid commitments, Zardari wants India in FoDP.
- Posted by Peter

Nice try dude! After several failures, another attempt to drag India and Kashmir to the Fak-Pa mess!

Posted by Patrick | Report as abusive

Pakistan army/ISI train a commando to become a terrorist, Musharraf rewards the commando and then a drone kills the commando!

http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_deta il.asp?Id=24626

Posted by Sammy | Report as abusive

Ohh .. so the Chinese bought the nuke secrets from Khan! I was thinking the other way!

And China wants to be super power with stolen secrets! Somebody give some advice to Chinese!

Posted by Nora | Report as abusive

“Nice try dude! After several failures, another attempt to drag India and Kashmir to the Fak-Pa mess”
You really believe Pakistani people would allow India to be part of FODP. It’s all politics dude. Zardari can say things but final decision is not up to him. It depends on people. The people do not like India. And do not go by the Poll No’s (18%); that Pakistani consider India a threat. All that means is that 82% Pakistani are not intimidated by India. We also know India would not negotiate with Pakistan. But Pakistani leaders keep on saying that we want to talk to India. But on the other hand India might talk and Pakistan might too. It’s a win win situation for Pakistan.

Posted by babag | Report as abusive

AQ Khan is a non-state actor.
World’s Problem, Not Pakistan’s alone! Pakistan needs drone technology and billions in aid to deal with non-state actors.
–State of Pakistan

Posted by State of Pakistan | Report as abusive

Run ISI run .. keep running!

CIA coming .. in large numbers!

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/ world/la-fg-afghan-intel20-2009sep20,0,1 183243.story

Posted by Ramin | Report as abusive

Trial of a criminal .. for crimes against humanity!

Justice delivered .. better late than never!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/wo rld/asia/article6839044.ece

Posted by Nicole | Report as abusive

“Mr singh I dont know about thumping chest, but india was put to its place by the chinese in 1962, the way your media hyping it all up you will be put on your arse by the red army. 1965 you tried your luck by attacking pakistan in the darkness of night and i dont think took over pakistan” – Posted by ali

It seems that since you have nothing to chest thump about your own country anymore, you’ve decided to thump on the the chests of the chinese. Yes, India did suffer defeat at the hands of the chinese in 1962 but a big reason for it was that it was grossly under-prepared as it was back-stabbed by China. If there ever will be another Indo-China war, you can be rest assured that India will be well prepared this time. Although, I believe that the likely-hood of such a war is extremely low since they are both mature & responsible nations who understand that they can gain more from each other by being friends than adversaries. Another reason is that they’re both focused on their rapidly growing economies, unlike Pakistan whose primary occupation & source of income these days is ‘terrorism’.
As far as Indo-Pak wars are concerned, it has been acknowledged by quite a few Pakistani intellectuals, politicians & high ranking Retd military officers that in all the wars fought between India & Pakistan, Pakistan was the aggressor & not India but if you still need something to hate India for, then it’s up to you.

Here’s an article for you & other Pakistanis on the blog about 1965 & Kargil wars from Hussain Haqqani, the current Pakistani ambassador to the US. Enjoy!

http://www.husainhaqqani.com/reflections  /OpEds/When%20Image%20is%20Truth%20and% 20Truth%20is%20Image.html

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive

Ali:
@1965 you tried your luck by attacking pakistan in the darkness of night and i dont think took over pakistan.
–What a joke. I think the comments of Ex-Pak Air Marshal Nur Khan, who led PAF in 1965 war against India, should clear your head. He says: “The 1965 war was based on a lie in which Ayub Khan and his generals misled the nation that India rather than Pakistan had provoked the war and that “we were the victims of Indian aggression”, “Since the 1965 war was based on a big lie and was presented to the nation a great victory, the Army came to believe its own fiction and has used since, Ayub as its role model and therefore has continued to fight unwanted wars — the 1971 war and the Kargil fiasco in 1999, he said.
http://www.pakistaniaviationforum.com/in dex.php?
showtopic=378&mode=linear

Update yourself. The GHQ ordered the destruction of the 1965 war diaries, and all the Foreign Office record pertaining to the East Pakistan crisis (1970-71) was also destroyed.

Also, another ex-Pak Air Marshal Asghar Khan has similar views:
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn -content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/colu mnists/16-ardeshir-cowasjee-wise-words-f rom-an-old-warrior-hs-04

The reasons for the lies by you are nicely explained by 2 Pak scholars. Make use of the report.
Report by Pakistani Scholars about history being taught in Pakistan schools: “The Subtle Subversion: The State of Curricula and Textbooks in Pakistan.”
http://www.sdpi.org/whats_new/reporton/S tate%20of%20Curr&TextBooks.pdf

1962 China-India has nothing to do with Pakistan, except that the Chinese prompted you in 1965 war and the foolish Ayub fell for it and faced humiliation Paki Paton tanks went all the way to graveyard.

@1971 benggalis won the election should have been given power, injustice did happen”
–What a brevity!–Injustice happened”. Could you elaborate and tell the Reuters what the injustice was–who knows what you think? It was 2 million butchered and raped by Pakistani Army.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

AQ Khan has more to tell! This is the first installment to blackmail ISI for better food, freedom and services.

He is not stupid to spit out all secrets at once. Then he has no value and may be on death row like Zulfikar Bhutto. The only reason Khan is alive is cuz he has secrets stashed with foreign friends, who will leak all to media if ISI hurts Khan.

So we’ll know the full scope after his death!

Posted by Nora | Report as abusive

History of Pak’s serious nuke Proliferators:
1. Z. Bhutto: Dead (Hanged by military)
2. Zia-ul Haq: Dead (mysterious plane crash)
3. B Bhutto: Dead (murdered)
4. N Sharif: Alive (Back in Pakistan after 8 yrs in exile)
5. Musharraf: Exile in UK (for now)
6. AQ Khan: Under house arrest since last 8 yrs

Posted by Ramin | Report as abusive

Pakistan scares India: Narayanan
http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_deta il.asp?Id=24639

Happy eid!

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

Pakistan scares India: Narayanan
Happy eid!
- Posted by Umair

Similar to cancer scaring humanity. That doesn’t make cancer great.Isn’t it?

Posted by Sunny | Report as abusive

Umair:

I hope you did not take that what “Pakistan scares India: Narayanan” as a complement. Obama gets scared too!

On separate note and to continue with your earlier comments, 1979-89 was Charlie Wilson’s Afghanistan war—who brought together the unexpected players— Egypt, Israel, Pakistan as allies of the US against Soviets. Zia did not want it to be made public dealing with Jews. This one is Obama’s war. Obama is doing the same bringing in unexpected players like Russia (though not that unexpected).

I do not see your wishes that US leave happening anytime soon nor it is advisable. They are going to train the Afghan soldiers this time to defend any unwanted foreign powers that may be drooling over Afghnaistan.
What do you think will happen to the Af-Pak region, if US leave soon?

Happy eid!

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Umair,

Did you read the article you put up? Or did you just post the link because you like the title?

If you read it, then bravo for starting to get past your bias and put up honest analysis.

If you put it up cause of the title, then boy do you have egg on your face cause that article makes Pakistan look like an unreliable bargaining partner.

Posted by Keith | Report as abusive

“What do you think will happen to the Af-Pak region, if US leave soon?”

Pakistan will help Afghanistan in negotiations with Talibans and eventually Indian consulates “terror centres” will be shut down.

Posted by babag | Report as abusive

Rajeev
This sure is Obama’s war, it is very difficult and unfortunate that Obama have to own this war. The challenge there is massive no doubt about it. Read the article below by veteran journalist Eric S. Margolis:

The Vietnam Syndrome in Afghanistan
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArtic leNew.asp?xfile=/data/opinion/2009/Septe mber/opinion_September104.xml&section=op inion
21 SEPT 2009 KHALEEJ TIMES
” Shades of Vietnam-style ‘mission creep.’ America’s NATO allies have seen the writing on the wall in Kabul and are trying to disengage their troop contingents without infuriating Washington.”

-Rajeev, the US is loosing support, Russia is resorting to brinkmanship and the US cannot expect Russia to be a staunch ally on Afghanistan. Obama is trying level best to secure whatever logistical and political support is possible from Russia over Afghanistan. I think the US is ignoring the Pashtuns in Afghanistan. Remember controlling the cities in Afghanistan means nothing, most of the country is rural. The minorities like Uzbek, Tajik, Hazara collaborate with the US, while the Pashtuns are at war against the American might, Gen. Stanley McChrystal in a recent 66 page report argues without another 40,000 troops US will loose the war in Afghanistan. British commander has already categorically stated that the Afghan war is not winnable, it is just controllable.

“I do not see your wishes that US leave happening anytime soon nor it is advisable. They are going to train the Afghan soldiers this time to defend any unwanted foreign powers that may be drooling over Afghnaistan.
What do you think will happen to the Af-Pak region, if US leave soon?”

-I will quote the answer to your above question from Eric Margolis’s article above:
“Any student of Imperialism 101 knows that after invading a resource-rich or strategic nation you immediately put a local stooge in power, use disaffected minorities to run the government (divide and conquer), and build a native mercenary army. Such troops, commanded by white officers, were called “sepoys” in the British Indian Army and “askaris” in British ?East Africa.

America’s attempts to build an Afghan sepoy army of 250,000 have failed miserably. The 80,000 men raised to date are 95 per cent illiterate and only on the job for money to feed their families. They have no loyalty to the corrupt Western-installed government in Kabul. CIA’s 74,000 “contractors” (read mercenaries) in Afghanistan are ?more reliable.

But the biggest problem in Afghanistan, as always, is tribalism. Many of the US-raised Afghan army troops are minority Tajiks, Uzbeks, and Hazara who used to collaborate with the Soviets. They are scorned by the majority Pashtun tribes as enemies and traitors. These US-paid troops also know they will face death when the US and its western allies eventually ?quit Afghanistan.”

Now Rajeev your last question:
“What do you think will happen to the Af-Pak region, if US leave soon?”

-I would rather rephrase and answer your question differently. US needs a regional approach, bringing in muslim countries from Pakistan to Saudi Arabia to Turkey. US needs inputs and political capital from these muslim nations rather than more troops and fire power from european allies. Unless we get to the root of the problem in Afghanistan there will be no solution. The US must give a timetable of withdrawal, reconcile the Taliban and bring them into mainstream. Now where does Pakistan stand, well in my opinion Pakistan is the wild card to stabilize Afghanistan. The world now is a global village, Indo-Pak relations affect the situation in Afghanistan too. Only a better India-Pak relationship along with a regional approach will work in Afghanistan. The situation is complex but all we need to do is to get back to basics. Understand the Afghan and muslim culture, forge better relations, help end the conflict. Leave it to muslim nations, sent in UN peacekeepers, US minimize its presence, Pakistan be taken onboard and the situation can be turned around in Afghanistan.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

It is not entirely accurate to say that US is abandoning the star wars program. In fact, the US is heavily funding the Israeli “Arrow” program to build a missile shield against potential threats from Iran. Not only that, there is a growing US-India-Israel axis collaborating on such a effort. This US-Israel-India axis represents a strategic threat to not only Iran but also Pakistan if India succeeds in building a missile shield. Any success by India will force Pakistan to respond with either a missile shield of its own or to considerably enlarge missile its deployment to overwhelm Indian defenses.

So as I had mentioned earlier, reality is beginning to dawn. The telescope is turning towards Pakistan. Soon drones will be zeroing in on Pakistani targets to destroy Al Qaeda and Taliban hideouts. The US has openly agreed that these two organizations are not in Afghanistan, but Pakistan. I am hoping that they knock out LeT and JUD leaders as well in the bargain. The mighty Pakistani military will be holding the torch for the American drones to hit the targets.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32952295/ns/ world_news-south_and_central_asia/

India should request the US to help clean up the terrorist elements inside Pakistan. The US would not want these elements to slip into India and hurt its business interests.

U.S. says Pakistan, Iran helping Taliban

Remarks from Gen. Stanley A. McChrystal, the U.S. commander in Afghanistan, are the first in months on the sensitive issue.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/ world/la-fg-afghan-spies22-2009sep22,0,3 144734.story

Posted by ANdy | Report as abusive

The U.S. military commander in Afghanistan says he has evidence that factions of Pakistani and Iranian spy services are supporting insurgent groups that carry out attacks on coalition troops.

McChrystal went on to single out Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence agency as well as the Quds Force of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard as contributing to the external forces working to undermine U.S. interests and destabilize the government in Kabul.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/ world/la-fg-afghan-spies22-2009sep22,0,3 144734.story

Posted by Andy | Report as abusive

US eyes more drone hits on terror havens in Pakistan

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/arti cle/ALeqM5iqyaFh_efr-brDq0rMLF1hkop0tgD9 ARVHGO0

Posted by ANdy | Report as abusive

Guys,
Could we (world) expect a peace from such a state… lol now its India and Afghanistan who created Taliban… hmmm why is pakistan still alive, if so !!!!

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn -content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/13+i ndia+afghanistan+supporting+militants+in +pakistan-za-03

Posted by raagzy | Report as abusive

@Myra,

Andy said

“US eyes more drone hits on terror havens in Pakistan

The U.S. military commander in Afghanistan says he has evidence that factions of Pakistani and Iranian spy services are supporting insurgent groups that carry out attacks on coalition troops.

McChrystal went on to single out Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence agency as well as the Quds Force of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard as contributing to the external forces working to undermine U.S. interests and destabilize the government in Kabul.

- Posted by ANdy ”

–>It seems that the U.S. is being lied to and played like a fiddle by Pak State Agencies again, and again and again… I personally predicted this months and weeks ago on numerous posts. How can dialogue be possible with a neighbor that keeps lying through its teeth Myra? Pakistan is incapable of being sincere on following through with peace. Pakistan only intends to use “peace” as a means to siphon more cash and AID to build its weapons complex.

Sure Pakistan wants “peace” and it will use peace to keep upgrading its nukes and fueling jihadi’s to cross the LOC into India and foment agitation in Kashmir.

General McChrystal also exposes the Iranian government trying to undermine the U.S. mission.

It is absolutely critical that the U.S. and allies greatly increase the troop levels in Afghanistan and now is the time to bring Russia into the picture, since they helped create this mess, they should commit troops to rectify it and the European missile shield should be taken away from Easter Block countries and pointed towards Iran and other terrorist rogue nations.

Starting relations again with Pakistan of any kind are not in the interest of India as India has nothing to gain and Pakistan repeatedly uses the guise of “peace” talks as a means to stall and inflict more damage on the U.S. mission and India.

The U.S. should start to single out and possible even drone the so-called “lower-level” Pak State Agency operatives who operate in the shadows and are subverting the Af-Pak mission. As in any situation, the so-called lower levels are always blamed and even sacrificed, when in fact the trail always leads to the top.

Myra, mark my words. While you suggest reconciliation and friendship on all levels, to wash away the angst of the past between India and Pakistan, I will be right again and again and Pakistan will continually disappoint, come short and never hold its end of the bargain. Every kind or peaceful overture act by India will be reciprocated with more Mumbai’s and no good deed goes unpunished.

As long as the Pak Army has the grip on Pakistan and the civilian population, peace and reconciliation with Pakistan will never be possible, not in a million years.

The citizens of Pakistan themselves, must remove the Army from power, through democratic means, or their own will. The Pak Army is not serving the citizens of Pakistan, but its own selfish interests. The U.S. has continually failed to realize this and keeps getting lied to in return and U.S. soldiers keep dying.

It is time for a huge Military strategy shift from Afghanistan towards Pakistan and physically corner Pakistan’s Rogue State Agencies and those who give them orders.

State of Pakistan is and will always be complicit with terrorism, in its current form and structure.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

Umair:
@Unless we get to the root of the problem in Afghanistan there will be no solution.
—true.

@ I would rather rephrase and answer your question differently. US needs a regional approach, bringing in muslim countries from Pakistan to Saudi Arabia to Turkey. US needs inputs and political capital from these muslim nations rather than more troops and fire power from european allies.
– “regional approach” –YES. muslim countries?—NO. same mistake as imposing American democracy in Afghanistan.
Turkey: not even a Muslim nation; it is a secular democracy like India. Pakistan: yet to settle down on a political system—democracy/dictatorship cycle. Saudis: No one’s role model, if you check with regional experts—they are good when one needs money in exchange of wahhabism, so alien to Afghnistan. Also, Iran and Turkey both are in a different group than Saudis/Pakistan—supporting Northern Alliance. The need is to listen to the scholars/experts of the region —those who know the culture of Afghanistan and the local leaders of Afgh/warlords. All the neighboring countries of Afghanistan need to sit down over this. Also will be involved countries like India who have been and have been rebuilding Afghanistan.

Muslim card played by Zia in 1979-89 anti-Soviet campaign is the reason for today’s problems in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Zia forbade support to any Afghan nationalist groups and gave support only to those fighting in the name of Allah only. Since these Mujahideens could be switched on by the call of Jihad, they were brught under “Taliban” label (B Bhuuto time)which for short-term was good to control the civil war; but in long-term has been a disaster for everyone after alliance with terrorists. The sponsors of the Taliban and benefiters were Muslim nations Pakistan/Saudis/UAE.

@The US must give a timetable of withdrawal, reconcile the Taliban and bring them into mainstream.”
–Time is not ripe for giving a timetable. Who are Taliban? The staunch supporters of Mullah Omar tribe are not fit for rehabilitation and they need to be blown away like Budha statues. Then there are Pashtuns who need money or are forced by Taliban—they need to be turned into Lashkars (danger though). How to decide good and bad guys is always a problem.

@Now where does Pakistan stand, well in my opinion Pakistan is the wild card to stabilize Afghanistan.”
–If history is the proof, Pakistan has destabilized Afghanistan. I am talking about ISI-Taliban/Taliban hosting A-Q times and terrorist camps running and ISI having gala time. Pakistani paranoia of India at that time was the reason for promoting Taliban as foreign policy tools, and the paranoia has not gone away, so why would Pakistan quit the old strategies is unknown.

@“Leave it to muslim nations, sent in UN peacekeepers, US minimize its presence, Pakistan be taken onboard and the situation can be turned around in Afghanistan.”
–Leaving to Muslim nations is a bad idea, as I said. Country’s survival is at stake, not Islam’s. Scholars/analysts who know Afghanistan culture are needed—Muslim or not. US stays, UN peacekeepers come in to engage the Afghans, get the big guys and process continues. US/Brits with help from Russia—all 3 with experience in the region will be helpful. Afghans people are to be taken in confidence and that will come with visible rebuilding and other strategies–rebuilding the country, schools etc—something for the common man is the way to go. Pakistan is onboard since 9/11.
@ America’s attempts to build an Afghan sepoy army of 250,000 have failed miserably…..95 per cent illiterate and only on the job for money to feed their families. They have no loyalty to the corrupt Western-installed government in Kabul.”
–This is not over yet. It is asking too much/too early in that region. US had no option–except to install a govt or else a dictator—people are not in the picture in either case—it takes time—Pakistan knows it. Corruption is omnipresent and does not bring down a country. Elections failure is no surprise, the efforts will continue and one must expect that most will fail and some succeed; Karzai’s history and the choices he made over last 30yrs tell that he is not a puppet; it takes time there cannot be a perfect system in place; he is not someone who lived in the West and implanted here. He has lived among people at the worst times and is good for reconciliation, which he did with Northern Alliance before 9/11 to get several pashtun groups/Northern Alliance together working against barbaric Anti-taliban—all collapsed after NA chief Ahmed Mahsoud was assassinated by Taliban/A-Q. Karzai was given the choice to represent Taliban abroad—essentially be a puppet– by ISI/Taliban during the peak of Taliban, which he ridiculed since Taliban at that time was synonym with Al-qaida not a genuine Pashtun version.

Despite all the regional, tribal culture, a national level govt is needed—whatever form. Representation if all is needed. The Jirga culture and local committees can continue where they could be, Times have changed and so will Afghanistan has to.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

kp singh said:

“So as I had mentioned earlier, reality is beginning to dawn. The telescope is turning towards Pakistan. Soon drones will be zeroing in on Pakistani targets to destroy Al Qaeda and Taliban hideouts. The US has openly agreed that these two organizations are not in Afghanistan, but Pakistan. I am hoping that they knock out LeT and JUD leaders as well in the bargain. The mighty Pakistani military will be holding the torch for the American drones to hit the targets.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32952295/ns/ world_news-south_and_central_asia/

India should request the US to help clean up the terrorist elements inside Pakistan. The US would not want these elements to slip into India and hurt its business interests.
- Posted by kp singh :

–>The civilized world hopes that the U.S smashes every inch of ground in Pakistan that houses terrorism and soil that is used for Proxy Army terrorism against India.

Let not one inch of Pak Soil be unscathed, scorched or undroned, where it be militants, their trainers, supporters and nurturers.

Posted by G Lobal Wa tcher | Report as abusive

“Leave it to muslim nations, sent in UN peacekeepers, US minimize its presence, Pakistan be taken onboard and the situation can be turned around in Afghanistan.”

–>The entire civilized world is doomed, if we leave things to anybody other than democratic nations. Pakistan is the reason that Afghanistan has stayed so behind the Taliban, who the U.S. is fighting right now.

Posted by Globa L Watcher | Report as abusive

Pak blogger:

“Unless we get to the root of the problem in Afghanistan there will be no solution. ”

–>The root of the problem is a repressive, expansionist Sunni Wahhabi and the double dealing lying Pak Punjabi Mafia. These two things mixed with tribal life, creates the problems we have today. But one has to remember, tribalism was always there.

The Saudi masters give money to build madrassas in pakistan and all over Europe, you Punjabi’s give training, support and weapons to build proxy armies like Taliban and Kashmir proxy armies.

Pak’s can’t keep blaming the war on communism for militantism, that war only lasted 8 years. Pakistan state agencies kept on weaponizing Jihadi armies for almost 21 years after the Soviets left, so that soviet/communism/america excuse is a hollow and useless one, and it does not wash any more.

The rest of the democratic societies want to live in peace, co-operate and pursue happiness in the manner that suites them the best in a manner that is non-religiously motivated, as this creates the greatest human harmony and peace amongst people of different races and religions.

The basic things that ALL societies enjoy today, farming methods, access to medicine and vaccines, cars, airplanes, computers and engineering and science that improve everyday life..all of these things in every country have been conceived by democratic, secular and plural societies.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive

Remarks of President Barack Obama – As Prepared for Delivery “Responsibility for our
Common Future” Address to the United Nations General Assembly
President Barack Obama
New York, NY
September 23, 2009

http://www.unausa.org/Document.Doc?id=47 1

“In Afghanistan and Pakistan, we – and many nations here – are helping those governments develop the capacity to take the lead in this effort, while working to
advance opportunity and security for their people.”
“We will stand by our friends on the front
lines, as we and many nations will do in pledging support for the Pakistani people
tomorrow.”

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive

India should allow US/Israel/Russia to build and operate bases from India so peace loving world can be ready for a third world war possibility from rogue nations like Pakistan, Iran, leaders with nations not recognized by UN like SWAT Valley of Taliban, FATA of AlQuaeda, PoK of LeT, N Korea, Bangladesh etc. I hope world leaders read my suggestion and act accordingly. Are you listening Mr Putin, Mr Obama, Mr Peres. Would you fulfill your duty as leaders of today’s world?

Posted by Rohit | Report as abusive

Sammer

Pakistan is going after wrong terrorists: US

Don’t you find it amusing. Now we have right terrorist and wrong terrorist.

Posted by Rohit | Report as abusive

Rohit, you said:

“India should allow US/Israel/Russia to build and operate bases from India so peace loving world can be ready for a third world war possibility from rogue nations like Pakistan, Iran, leaders with nations not recognized by UN like SWAT Valley of Taliban, FATA of AlQuaeda, PoK of LeT, N Korea, Bangladesh etc. I hope world leaders read my suggestion and act accordingly. Are you listening Mr Putin, Mr Obama, Mr Peres. Would you fulfill your duty as leaders of today’s world?
- Posted by Rohit ”

–>Rohit, you are completely right. Misuse of the good religion of Islam by Pak Army for political reasons and to justify attrocities was responsible for genocides against Hindus during partition, proxy wars against India and Genocide of 3 million Bengalis.

Hypothetically, if Pakistan ever got Indian Kashmir, the Pak Army would surely continue its slaughterous genocide against millions of more hindus there, to ethnically cleanse it for muslims only. Hindus were extreminated there like cockroaches. They won’t stop there, they will continue on a rampage for all of northern India, that was Gen. Niazi, the 1971 Pak generals’s plan all along, to Genocide dozens of Millions, of Hindus to make room for muslims. Pakistan has no plan for real lasting peace with anybody.

It is not just for that reason, but for 911, Mumbai and the GLobal terrorism in all civilized western nations that Israel, Russia, U.S. and India must form a solid security pact and a unified military response plan to police and school rogue nations in proper behavior.

With regards to WWIII, I hope that never arrives. It will surely start with Pakistan. Pakistan will start WWIII and attempt to take India by surprise. Many military experts and analysts have forcasted that Pak establishment may have plans to do that at some point, given their past military history and subsequent failures. They started all past 3 wars, are still unrepentant for them, yet have the gall to want to even the score with India.

Many think a nuclear Iran is a threat to the world, perhaps it is, especially to Israel, the much bigger threat to the security of the world is Pakistan, because its establishment from the top down, cannot be trusted, as it has shown time and time against to be liars, double dealers, and following their own agenda to continually weaponize gainst India, using International Aid, Military Aid and IMF funds, while the average Pakistani starves.

On that basis, Pakistan should be put in the same category as North Korea.

The superpowers have to put their differences aside and do the right thing with regards to North Korea, Pakistan and Iran.

India is busy putting probes into the moon and Pakistan is busy wasting their energy strategizing more terrorism against India and how to fool the western powers.

Posted by Global Watcher | Report as abusive