Comments on: The missile shield and the “grand bargain” on Afghanistan and Pakistan http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/09/17/the-missile-shield-and-the-grand-bargain-on-afghanistan-and-pakistan/ Perspectives on Pakistan Thu, 01 Oct 2015 19:31:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: Global Watcher http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/09/17/the-missile-shield-and-the-grand-bargain-on-afghanistan-and-pakistan/comment-page-2/#comment-23085 Thu, 24 Sep 2009 15:38:41 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=3618#comment-23085 Rohit, you said:

“India should allow US/Israel/Russia to build and operate bases from India so peace loving world can be ready for a third world war possibility from rogue nations like Pakistan, Iran, leaders with nations not recognized by UN like SWAT Valley of Taliban, FATA of AlQuaeda, PoK of LeT, N Korea, Bangladesh etc. I hope world leaders read my suggestion and act accordingly. Are you listening Mr Putin, Mr Obama, Mr Peres. Would you fulfill your duty as leaders of today’s world?
– Posted by Rohit ”

–>Rohit, you are completely right. Misuse of the good religion of Islam by Pak Army for political reasons and to justify attrocities was responsible for genocides against Hindus during partition, proxy wars against India and Genocide of 3 million Bengalis.

Hypothetically, if Pakistan ever got Indian Kashmir, the Pak Army would surely continue its slaughterous genocide against millions of more hindus there, to ethnically cleanse it for muslims only. Hindus were extreminated there like cockroaches. They won’t stop there, they will continue on a rampage for all of northern India, that was Gen. Niazi, the 1971 Pak generals’s plan all along, to Genocide dozens of Millions, of Hindus to make room for muslims. Pakistan has no plan for real lasting peace with anybody.

It is not just for that reason, but for 911, Mumbai and the GLobal terrorism in all civilized western nations that Israel, Russia, U.S. and India must form a solid security pact and a unified military response plan to police and school rogue nations in proper behavior.

With regards to WWIII, I hope that never arrives. It will surely start with Pakistan. Pakistan will start WWIII and attempt to take India by surprise. Many military experts and analysts have forcasted that Pak establishment may have plans to do that at some point, given their past military history and subsequent failures. They started all past 3 wars, are still unrepentant for them, yet have the gall to want to even the score with India.

Many think a nuclear Iran is a threat to the world, perhaps it is, especially to Israel, the much bigger threat to the security of the world is Pakistan, because its establishment from the top down, cannot be trusted, as it has shown time and time against to be liars, double dealers, and following their own agenda to continually weaponize gainst India, using International Aid, Military Aid and IMF funds, while the average Pakistani starves.

On that basis, Pakistan should be put in the same category as North Korea.

The superpowers have to put their differences aside and do the right thing with regards to North Korea, Pakistan and Iran.

India is busy putting probes into the moon and Pakistan is busy wasting their energy strategizing more terrorism against India and how to fool the western powers.

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By: Rohit http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/09/17/the-missile-shield-and-the-grand-bargain-on-afghanistan-and-pakistan/comment-page-2/#comment-23079 Thu, 24 Sep 2009 13:37:51 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=3618#comment-23079 Sammer

Pakistan is going after wrong terrorists: US

Don’t you find it amusing. Now we have right terrorist and wrong terrorist.

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By: Rohit http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/09/17/the-missile-shield-and-the-grand-bargain-on-afghanistan-and-pakistan/comment-page-2/#comment-23077 Thu, 24 Sep 2009 13:32:40 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=3618#comment-23077 India should allow US/Israel/Russia to build and operate bases from India so peace loving world can be ready for a third world war possibility from rogue nations like Pakistan, Iran, leaders with nations not recognized by UN like SWAT Valley of Taliban, FATA of AlQuaeda, PoK of LeT, N Korea, Bangladesh etc. I hope world leaders read my suggestion and act accordingly. Are you listening Mr Putin, Mr Obama, Mr Peres. Would you fulfill your duty as leaders of today’s world?

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By: Umair http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/09/17/the-missile-shield-and-the-grand-bargain-on-afghanistan-and-pakistan/comment-page-2/#comment-23066 Wed, 23 Sep 2009 16:57:15 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=3618#comment-23066 Remarks of President Barack Obama – As Prepared for Delivery “Responsibility for our
Common Future” Address to the United Nations General Assembly
President Barack Obama
New York, NY
September 23, 2009

http://www.unausa.org/Document.Doc?id=47 1

“In Afghanistan and Pakistan, we – and many nations here – are helping those governments develop the capacity to take the lead in this effort, while working to
advance opportunity and security for their people.”
“We will stand by our friends on the front
lines, as we and many nations will do in pledging support for the Pakistani people
tomorrow.”

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By: Global Watcher http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/09/17/the-missile-shield-and-the-grand-bargain-on-afghanistan-and-pakistan/comment-page-2/#comment-23063 Wed, 23 Sep 2009 14:32:05 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=3618#comment-23063 Pak blogger:

“Unless we get to the root of the problem in Afghanistan there will be no solution. ”

–>The root of the problem is a repressive, expansionist Sunni Wahhabi and the double dealing lying Pak Punjabi Mafia. These two things mixed with tribal life, creates the problems we have today. But one has to remember, tribalism was always there.

The Saudi masters give money to build madrassas in pakistan and all over Europe, you Punjabi’s give training, support and weapons to build proxy armies like Taliban and Kashmir proxy armies.

Pak’s can’t keep blaming the war on communism for militantism, that war only lasted 8 years. Pakistan state agencies kept on weaponizing Jihadi armies for almost 21 years after the Soviets left, so that soviet/communism/america excuse is a hollow and useless one, and it does not wash any more.

The rest of the democratic societies want to live in peace, co-operate and pursue happiness in the manner that suites them the best in a manner that is non-religiously motivated, as this creates the greatest human harmony and peace amongst people of different races and religions.

The basic things that ALL societies enjoy today, farming methods, access to medicine and vaccines, cars, airplanes, computers and engineering and science that improve everyday life..all of these things in every country have been conceived by democratic, secular and plural societies.

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By: Globa L Watcher http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/09/17/the-missile-shield-and-the-grand-bargain-on-afghanistan-and-pakistan/comment-page-2/#comment-23056 Wed, 23 Sep 2009 03:33:38 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=3618#comment-23056 “Leave it to muslim nations, sent in UN peacekeepers, US minimize its presence, Pakistan be taken onboard and the situation can be turned around in Afghanistan.”

–>The entire civilized world is doomed, if we leave things to anybody other than democratic nations. Pakistan is the reason that Afghanistan has stayed so behind the Taliban, who the U.S. is fighting right now.

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By: G Lobal Wa tcher http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/09/17/the-missile-shield-and-the-grand-bargain-on-afghanistan-and-pakistan/comment-page-2/#comment-23055 Wed, 23 Sep 2009 03:28:38 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=3618#comment-23055 kp singh said:

“So as I had mentioned earlier, reality is beginning to dawn. The telescope is turning towards Pakistan. Soon drones will be zeroing in on Pakistani targets to destroy Al Qaeda and Taliban hideouts. The US has openly agreed that these two organizations are not in Afghanistan, but Pakistan. I am hoping that they knock out LeT and JUD leaders as well in the bargain. The mighty Pakistani military will be holding the torch for the American drones to hit the targets.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32952295/ns/ world_news-south_and_central_asia/

India should request the US to help clean up the terrorist elements inside Pakistan. The US would not want these elements to slip into India and hurt its business interests.
– Posted by kp singh :

–>The civilized world hopes that the U.S smashes every inch of ground in Pakistan that houses terrorism and soil that is used for Proxy Army terrorism against India.

Let not one inch of Pak Soil be unscathed, scorched or undroned, where it be militants, their trainers, supporters and nurturers.

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By: rajeev http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/09/17/the-missile-shield-and-the-grand-bargain-on-afghanistan-and-pakistan/comment-page-2/#comment-23049 Tue, 22 Sep 2009 23:54:14 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=3618#comment-23049 Umair:
@Unless we get to the root of the problem in Afghanistan there will be no solution.
—true.

@ I would rather rephrase and answer your question differently. US needs a regional approach, bringing in muslim countries from Pakistan to Saudi Arabia to Turkey. US needs inputs and political capital from these muslim nations rather than more troops and fire power from european allies.
— “regional approach” –YES. muslim countries?—NO. same mistake as imposing American democracy in Afghanistan.
Turkey: not even a Muslim nation; it is a secular democracy like India. Pakistan: yet to settle down on a political system—democracy/dictatorship cycle. Saudis: No one’s role model, if you check with regional experts—they are good when one needs money in exchange of wahhabism, so alien to Afghnistan. Also, Iran and Turkey both are in a different group than Saudis/Pakistan—supporting Northern Alliance. The need is to listen to the scholars/experts of the region —those who know the culture of Afghanistan and the local leaders of Afgh/warlords. All the neighboring countries of Afghanistan need to sit down over this. Also will be involved countries like India who have been and have been rebuilding Afghanistan.

Muslim card played by Zia in 1979-89 anti-Soviet campaign is the reason for today’s problems in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Zia forbade support to any Afghan nationalist groups and gave support only to those fighting in the name of Allah only. Since these Mujahideens could be switched on by the call of Jihad, they were brught under “Taliban” label (B Bhuuto time)which for short-term was good to control the civil war; but in long-term has been a disaster for everyone after alliance with terrorists. The sponsors of the Taliban and benefiters were Muslim nations Pakistan/Saudis/UAE.

@The US must give a timetable of withdrawal, reconcile the Taliban and bring them into mainstream.”
–Time is not ripe for giving a timetable. Who are Taliban? The staunch supporters of Mullah Omar tribe are not fit for rehabilitation and they need to be blown away like Budha statues. Then there are Pashtuns who need money or are forced by Taliban—they need to be turned into Lashkars (danger though). How to decide good and bad guys is always a problem.

@Now where does Pakistan stand, well in my opinion Pakistan is the wild card to stabilize Afghanistan.”
–If history is the proof, Pakistan has destabilized Afghanistan. I am talking about ISI-Taliban/Taliban hosting A-Q times and terrorist camps running and ISI having gala time. Pakistani paranoia of India at that time was the reason for promoting Taliban as foreign policy tools, and the paranoia has not gone away, so why would Pakistan quit the old strategies is unknown.

@“Leave it to muslim nations, sent in UN peacekeepers, US minimize its presence, Pakistan be taken onboard and the situation can be turned around in Afghanistan.”
–Leaving to Muslim nations is a bad idea, as I said. Country’s survival is at stake, not Islam’s. Scholars/analysts who know Afghanistan culture are needed—Muslim or not. US stays, UN peacekeepers come in to engage the Afghans, get the big guys and process continues. US/Brits with help from Russia—all 3 with experience in the region will be helpful. Afghans people are to be taken in confidence and that will come with visible rebuilding and other strategies–rebuilding the country, schools etc—something for the common man is the way to go. Pakistan is onboard since 9/11.
@ America’s attempts to build an Afghan sepoy army of 250,000 have failed miserably…..95 per cent illiterate and only on the job for money to feed their families. They have no loyalty to the corrupt Western-installed government in Kabul.”
–This is not over yet. It is asking too much/too early in that region. US had no option–except to install a govt or else a dictator—people are not in the picture in either case—it takes time—Pakistan knows it. Corruption is omnipresent and does not bring down a country. Elections failure is no surprise, the efforts will continue and one must expect that most will fail and some succeed; Karzai’s history and the choices he made over last 30yrs tell that he is not a puppet; it takes time there cannot be a perfect system in place; he is not someone who lived in the West and implanted here. He has lived among people at the worst times and is good for reconciliation, which he did with Northern Alliance before 9/11 to get several pashtun groups/Northern Alliance together working against barbaric Anti-taliban—all collapsed after NA chief Ahmed Mahsoud was assassinated by Taliban/A-Q. Karzai was given the choice to represent Taliban abroad—essentially be a puppet– by ISI/Taliban during the peak of Taliban, which he ridiculed since Taliban at that time was synonym with Al-qaida not a genuine Pashtun version.

Despite all the regional, tribal culture, a national level govt is needed—whatever form. Representation if all is needed. The Jirga culture and local committees can continue where they could be, Times have changed and so will Afghanistan has to.

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By: Sammer http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/09/17/the-missile-shield-and-the-grand-bargain-on-afghanistan-and-pakistan/comment-page-2/#comment-23042 Tue, 22 Sep 2009 16:39:19 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=3618#comment-23042 Pakistan is going after wrong terrorists: US

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Pak-is-goi ng-after-wrong-terrorists-says-US/H1-Art icle1-456422.aspx

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By: Global Watcher http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/09/17/the-missile-shield-and-the-grand-bargain-on-afghanistan-and-pakistan/comment-page-2/#comment-23035 Tue, 22 Sep 2009 15:06:25 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=3618#comment-23035 @Myra,

Andy said

“US eyes more drone hits on terror havens in Pakistan

The U.S. military commander in Afghanistan says he has evidence that factions of Pakistani and Iranian spy services are supporting insurgent groups that carry out attacks on coalition troops.

McChrystal went on to single out Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence agency as well as the Quds Force of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard as contributing to the external forces working to undermine U.S. interests and destabilize the government in Kabul.

– Posted by ANdy ”

–>It seems that the U.S. is being lied to and played like a fiddle by Pak State Agencies again, and again and again… I personally predicted this months and weeks ago on numerous posts. How can dialogue be possible with a neighbor that keeps lying through its teeth Myra? Pakistan is incapable of being sincere on following through with peace. Pakistan only intends to use “peace” as a means to siphon more cash and AID to build its weapons complex.

Sure Pakistan wants “peace” and it will use peace to keep upgrading its nukes and fueling jihadi’s to cross the LOC into India and foment agitation in Kashmir.

General McChrystal also exposes the Iranian government trying to undermine the U.S. mission.

It is absolutely critical that the U.S. and allies greatly increase the troop levels in Afghanistan and now is the time to bring Russia into the picture, since they helped create this mess, they should commit troops to rectify it and the European missile shield should be taken away from Easter Block countries and pointed towards Iran and other terrorist rogue nations.

Starting relations again with Pakistan of any kind are not in the interest of India as India has nothing to gain and Pakistan repeatedly uses the guise of “peace” talks as a means to stall and inflict more damage on the U.S. mission and India.

The U.S. should start to single out and possible even drone the so-called “lower-level” Pak State Agency operatives who operate in the shadows and are subverting the Af-Pak mission. As in any situation, the so-called lower levels are always blamed and even sacrificed, when in fact the trail always leads to the top.

Myra, mark my words. While you suggest reconciliation and friendship on all levels, to wash away the angst of the past between India and Pakistan, I will be right again and again and Pakistan will continually disappoint, come short and never hold its end of the bargain. Every kind or peaceful overture act by India will be reciprocated with more Mumbai’s and no good deed goes unpunished.

As long as the Pak Army has the grip on Pakistan and the civilian population, peace and reconciliation with Pakistan will never be possible, not in a million years.

The citizens of Pakistan themselves, must remove the Army from power, through democratic means, or their own will. The Pak Army is not serving the citizens of Pakistan, but its own selfish interests. The U.S. has continually failed to realize this and keeps getting lied to in return and U.S. soldiers keep dying.

It is time for a huge Military strategy shift from Afghanistan towards Pakistan and physically corner Pakistan’s Rogue State Agencies and those who give them orders.

State of Pakistan is and will always be complicit with terrorism, in its current form and structure.

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