Pakistan and Britain: On exits and entrances

September 30, 2009

With one million Britons of Pakistani origin, and as the former colonial power, Britain has a unique relationship with Pakistan. But concerns about Britain’s vulnerability to bomb attacks planned by Pakistan-based militants — British Prime Minister Gordon Brown has said that three-quarters of the most serious plots investigated by British authorities had links to al Qaeda in Pakistanhas made for a rocky relationship.

Irfan Husain, a columnist for Dawn newspaper who divides his time between Britain and Pakistan, writes that these tensions are being worsened by the problems Pakistanis have in obtaining visas to visit Britain.

“It is true that Pakistan is increasingly viewed as the epicentre of Islamic terrorism. Many plots, real and imaginary, have had their roots in the badlands of Fata (the Federally Administered Tribal Areas),” he writes. “Many young Brits of Pakistani descent have travelled to remote parts of the country to receive training in bomb-making. But the point is that these young men do not need visas to return to Bradford and Wolverhampton. Being born in Britain, they enter their country without let or hindrance.”

Among those denied entry were members of the Lahore Pipe Band hoping to take part in a world championship in Scotland, a trade delegation, a well-known columnist, and a guitarist.

It’s not entirely clear whether the visa problems are driven more by bureaucratic bungling than fear of terrorism. The Guardian newspaper says that several thousand Pakistani students hoping to start university in Britain are facing delays of three months or more for visas because of a “bureaucratic fiasco” – after a reorganisation, visa applications from Pakistan are now processed in Abu Dhabi.

Husain argues that by denying entry to the likes of writers and musicians, Britain is compounding the very problem it wants to contain - the spread of extremism. These are the kind of people who should be made welcome in the west, he says. ”Given the position they enjoy in Pakistan, they can influence many to see that the enemy is not the West, but the forces of darkness that have gained the ascendancy in our own country. By turning them down, the British government only provides ammunition to those who are convinced of the West’s inherent anti-Islam policies.”

In any case, most security analysts would argue that the main  concern is not about Pakistanis coming into Britain; it is about Britons of Pakistani origin leaving the country to attend militant training camps based in Pakistan. On this subject, Stephen Tankel has an interesting post about signs of growth in the operations of the Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) and Jaish-e-Mohammed (JeM) militant groups. Based in Pakistan’s heartland Punjab province, these groups were initially focused on fighting India over Kashmir, but are increasingly seen as a potential or direct threat to the west.

“In the past JeM and LeT were valuable to al-Qaeda because of what is called the ‘Kashmiri Escalator’. A disproportionate number of British Pakistanis are of Kashmiri decent and those interested in making contact with a militant group often can employ familial connections in Pakistan-controlled Kashmir to find their ways to Lashkar or JeM,” he writes. 

“Recruits procure training from one of the two groups, after which some of them are passed on to al-Qaeda operatives who are often in the FATA. In 2009 British security officials estimated that approximately 4,000 people were trained in this way since 9/11…”

The apparent growth of these two groups in the heart of Pakistan, he writes, give pause for thought about the U.S.-led campaign in Afghanistan. “Enormous sacrifices are being made to keep Afghanistan free from al-Qaeda and its allies. Meanwhile, next-door some of those same allies are building away in the seemingly safest of havens.”

The argument about who is responsible for British citizens seeking training in militant camps in Pakistan is a complex one – both countries tend to blame the other. And as Amil Khan wrote in this post last year, the attitude of British Pakistanis to Pakistan is far more layered than a simple question of which country should take the blame when something goes wrong.

But if one of the aims is to stop young British Pakistanis from being drawn towards hardline Islam, and at the same time offer them an alternative image of both Britain and Pakistan, why ban the bagpipers?

Comments

Myra, good article, you said:

“The argument about who is responsible for British citizens seeking training in militant camps in Pakistan is a complex one – both countries tend to blame the other. And as Amil Khan wrote in this post last year, the attitude of British Pakistanis to Pakistan is far more layered than a simple question of which country should take the blame when something goes wrong.”

–>That is a tough one. Perhaps both are responsible, but Pakistan, on a practical level, has no will, nor desire, nor the ability to do much about it, therefore, in terms of action on this topic, it will alway lie solely with the U.K.

It is extremely disheartening and troubling that some immigrants come to a country, work hard, only to have their children fall prey to extremists like the ex-lawyer Chaudhary, now donning a beard, a robe and several children who lives off of welfare, paid by UK Citizens, but also calls for an Islamic Jihad against the West.

The responsibiilty lies with the Pakistani communities, namely the parents themselves and the religious leaders. They have to do more to take a collective responsibility as British citizens, to safeguard the interests, both security and political interests of their host country, where they have survived and thrived.

The parents, especially eastern fathers need to take a more active role in their children’s development and listen to them and always build a friendly loving relationship with them. The religious leaders have duty to not preach religious venom against other religions in their places of prayer or any place for that matter and the community as a whole should actively root out and work with the Police and Intelligence MI5 to arrest those who preach hate political venom against others.

If a certain segment of the UK’s population is fear ridden, or impotent to act out to protect their host country, then they are useless to the host country and this will eventually lead to cultural resentment by remaining population and will inflame further divisions.

It is in fact and should be a patriotic duty of every Pakistani citizen there, to look after their country the UK, whether it is their mother country or their host country.

Children are often a product of what value systems their parents instill in them. It is advisable to be careful what one discusses at the dinner table with their children.

It is the moral, and patriotic duty of every Pakistani origin person there to look after their host country and do what it takes to keep it safe. There are many Pakistani trying hard to do this, but not nearly enough.

Posted by GW | Report as abusive
 

Is UK Pakistan’s backyard too?

Getting a visa is a privilege, not a right!

Posted by Ramin | Report as abusive
 

There is no point exporting Pakistan’s skill to UK. Pakistanis should fix their country first! If Pakistanis like Jehad so much, why abandon the country now?

No like Jehad now?

Posted by Ramin | Report as abusive
 

Pakistanis should have thought about their international image and future before opening millions of madrassasas.

Posted by Soman | Report as abusive
 

Banning the bagpipers, blind cricket team, trade delegation and Lahore Mayor was necessary to force Pakistan Govt to sign the extradition treaty with UK.

Pakistan had rebuffed Brown/Miliband several times when they tried to sign the extradition treaty. Both personally visited Pakistan to convince the Pakistan Govt and both were rebuffed.

As a result, UK couldn’t deport the 10 arrested students and had to keep them in jail indefinitely.

After all that pressure,Pakistan recently signed extradition treaty. So the Problem is not UK, but Pakistan Govt and specifically Pakistan Ambassador to UK, Wajid Hassan, who actively dissuaded the Govt from signing the extradition treaty.

There are 15000-20000 illegal Pakistanis in UK and UK can’t deport them without the extradition treaty. The Ambassador deliberately tried to save the illegals from deportation by scuttling the extradition treaty.

How can the UK admit more when there is no exit strategy and Pakistan Govt is not cooperating and sabotaging UK’s security!

If you have to blame, blame Pakistan Govt, the ambassador and Pakistanis!

Posted by Soman | Report as abusive
 

This is just the beginning …

A lot more is coming towards Pakistan ..

When I was in school in US 10 years back, all Pakistani students used to call themselves Indians. All Pakistani restaurants are named Asian or India-Pakistan restaurants. No body wanted to be called a Pakistani or seen with one! Guess why?

Posted by Sameer | Report as abusive
 

So let me get this clear!

Pakistanis want to leave Pakistan to Chechens, Uzbeks, Tajiks, Arabs, Talibans and Pakistanis want to go to UK?

What happened to Zinnah’s vision?

Posted by Andy | Report as abusive
 

At least UK is still hosting 1 mil Pakistanis including 30000 illegals!

US has cleaned most illegal Pakistanis and hunting the legal bad ones! I don’t think US is issuing any new visas either!

But Pakistanis can go to China or Saudi!

Posted by Ptreick | Report as abusive
 

This problem will stay for at least a generation. The sooner Pakistanis clean their country, the better!

After the Visa ban, next comes sanctions!

Hope Pakistanis won’t see that day!

Posted by Pete | Report as abusive
 

“In any case, most security analysts would argue that the main concern is not about Pakistanis coming into Britain; it is about Britons of Pakistani origin leaving the country to attend militant training camps based in Pakistan”

I have a solution this problem. Ban travel to Pakistan for citizens/residents for an indefinite period of time, until it ceases to be a terror hub. Anyone who travels to Pakistan in spite of the ban would automatically forfeit their UK citizen/resident status. This law should be adopted, not only in the UK but also in US, Canada & other countries. It might sound a radical solution but this might be the only way to curb the import of terrorism from Pakistan & protect one’s boundaries.

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive
 

Britain is paying the price for dividing up the sub-continent into Muslim and Non-Muslim countries and supporting Pakistan against Indian interests all these years. Britain almost became like a second home for Pakistanis during the 1970s. Indians were discriminated and looked at with scorn for a long time. Cold war geo-politics turned the tables on India and Pakistan was the darling of US/UK anti-Soviet coalition. Now the world has turned a full circle. Britain is paying the price for nurturing Islamic fanatics. Now they are citizens of the UK and come to Pakistan to get trained to attack British targets. You reap what you sow. They are trying everything they can now by denying every Pakistani a legal entry to their country. Unfortunately the affected ones are the moderate and reasonable Pakistanis who would like to move to UK and other Western nations so that they could live like others and be free from all religious restrictions. There is nothing surprising about UK Pakistani immigrants becoming more religious. Typically immigrants to any country stay together and become more conservative about their values and traditions. And they look up to their place of origin to inspire their children. But in the case of Pakistanis, it turned out to be the traditions of Wahabbism. Second generation Pakistanis in UK are turning out like Omar Sheikh unfortunately. Hatred leads to self destruction. Pakistan is a classic example of that. Germany under Hitler was the earlier example. The whole world had to surround it and defeat it. Now Pakistan is facing the same situation. The world is at its door to clean it up.

 

The Canadian High Commission in Islamabad is much more efficient than its British counterpart, Canada’s immigration minister was in Pakistan earlier this year and Canada is taking effective steps to reduce backlog of permanent residence applicants from Pakistan. So is the Swedish embassy in Islamabad which has processed thousands of student visa applications this year on fast track basis. Britain will loose international students from Pakistan unless this red tape in visas is curbed.

As with British citizens of Pakistani origin, they are born and educated in Britain and Pakistan cannot be responsible for their actions. What Pakistan can do is create conducive violence free atmosphere in Pakistan so that outside visitors enjoy the tourist attractions in the country rather than induldging in millitant activity.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

From what I read on the Guardian on a similar article, the visa problem is not confined to Pakistan alone. It looks like a bureaucratic mess that is the core reason. For some reason there is a huge backlog of visa processing, especially for many Asian and third world countries (read as Non-white). UK is at the brink of going broke. It can no longer support more people flooding from outside. If second generation Pakistanis love their place of origin and their religion so much, may be they should stand in the queue for citizenship of Pakistan and get in there. UK went and colonized all these countries. Now they are living with the legacy of that colonization. Islamic terrorism is gaining momentum in Europe which is much more liberal than the US. They will be the next big victim of it, starting with UK and Netherlands. These countries went against India for a long time, nurturing Pakistan. So now they have to deal with the same reality that India was dealing with. The chickens have come to roost.

 

Kp Singh,

You said:”Britain is paying the price for dividing up the sub-continent into Muslim and Non-Muslim countries and supporting Pakistan against Indian interests all these years.”

–>You hit the nail on the head. In the Past, the Colonial British rule was weakening, the empire was losing its grip and spread too thin. As a parting gift to all colonies, wherever the British went, they always, without fail, divided all territories, with the intent of always leaving them in dispute and ensuring endless wars between different peoples. This was the design of the Royal Families…if we can’t have you, then we will leave you butchering each other. There are dozens of examples of this all over the world. It is a way of artificially and relatively elevating the colonial nations power over the colonies they can’t plunder any more, by leaving them in a state of disarray, war and confusion between peoples and hence the abandoned colony would hopefully be weak, while the colonialists sell weapons to both sides and the British elite line their pockets on the blood of others.

Despite this, India made very good of colonialism and took the best the British had to offer in terms of structure, institutions and mated it well with their own spiritual and cultural advancements. Indians were the few that made well from colonialism.

Posted by GW | Report as abusive
 

Umair,

Just to let you know…there’s a big difference between clearing a backlog of applications and granting visas for those applications. The Minister is intent on clearing the backlog. I would not bet anything serious on the acceptance rate suddenly going up.

In Canada, CSIS has found several links to Pakistan in its terror investigations. And although they have taken a lot of flack for their investigations (largely because they aren’t as experienced as the FBI or MI-5 and the pecularities of our legal system), they have more than their fair say behind closed doors. And you can be sure they are being absolutely discerning when it comes to applicants from Pakistan.

The only reason Canada has fared better than the UK is that the proportion of Pakistani migrants in the South Asian community here is significantly smaller. However, virtually every issue with terrorism or human rights that have occurred in Canada, involving South Asians, has largely involved Pakistanis and to a lesser extent Indian Punjabis. You can be fairly sure that the government is fully aware of this and they will craft policies accordingly. The last thing we want in Canada, is to end up with the problems that the UK has….particularly given the fact that our legal system is far more lenient than the rest of the Western world when it comes to terrorism (or even criminality in general).

Posted by Keith | Report as abusive
 

@Keith,

Coming from an punjabi hindu immigrant family myself, I am truly grateful that my parents got immigration here. They were productive, peaceful and contributing members of society, paid their taxes and were very patriotic. In fact, my family never bothered sponsoring anybody, to come here, unless they had English, cash, education and a plan to work, as soon as they come of the plane. Despite our large family on both sides, in 35 years, we only had 2 relatives, who we felt were worthy of coming to a commonwealth country, who could assimilate, survive and thrive and become ideal naturalized citizens. We need more existing naturalized immigrants to be selective in this manner, like my parents were. My parents left India for a better way of life and found a home in their host country, but they never brought their ethnic, societal or religious problems to their host country.

People need to be reminded immigration is a privilege and it is the host country’s absolute right to be as selective as they want to be, to maintain security and integrity of their nation.

Posted by GW | Report as abusive
 

“You don’t want me to cut off your hands and feet,” the army officer says.

Video shows Pakistan army ‘abuse’
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/82 85564.stm

Who is better: ISI/Army or Taliban?

Posted by Soman | Report as abusive
 

“Britain is paying the price for dividing up the sub-continent into Muslim and Non-Muslim countries and supporting Pakistan against Indian interests all these years” – Posted by kp singh

Mr. Singh, I agree with you 100%.

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive
 

Thousands of Pakistanis face deportation from Canada

http://www.indypressny.org/nycma/voices/ 135/series/Terror_2/

Posted by Andy | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan not accepting the dead bodies of 9 Pakistani terrorists citizen, who attacked Mumbai!
http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/ Terrorists-dead-bodies-to-wait-as-Pak-tu rns-its-back/398353/

Pakistan warns UK against deportation of students, seeks apology
http://www.nowpublic.com/world/pakistan- warns-uk-against-deportation-students-se eks-apology

With this kind of attitude and cooperation from Pakistan Govt, how can any sensible Govt admit more Pakistanis!

Pakistan Govt needs to drain the swamps at home FIRST!

Posted by Sameer | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan doesn’t cooperate to extradite terrorists to Saudi.

Saudis arrest 5 Pakistanis and force Pakistan to trade terrorists!

Pak exchanges Al-Qaeda commanders for detained family with Saudi Arab
http://blog.taragana.com/n/pak-exchanges -al-qaeda-commanders-for-detained-family -with-saudi-arabia-180495/

May be US/UK/India should play the same game! Arrest Pakistanis and trade for wanted terrorists!

Posted by Soman | Report as abusive
 

UK to set up MI5 counter part in Pakistan

ISI trying to scuttle the plan

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/82862 17.stm

Posted by Robin | Report as abusive
 

Will this lead to creation of one more Pakistan, this time from British Land? Is Britain reaping the harvest from the seeds of mis governance it sowed in India by first founding Congress in 1885 and then giving birth to Muslim League? Good to learn British secularism getting something back in return from erstwhile British India Secularism… How one puts it… Britain is reaping the harvest of crop it sowed in British India along with Congress and Muslim League?

Posted by Rohit | Report as abusive
 

Keith
This may be of interest to you:
http://www.csis-scrs.gc.ca/pblctns/cdmct rch/pkstn_scrt-eng.asp
Pakistan’s Security – Today and Tomorrow

I want to ask you, how can Canada be selective in implementing immigration laws for Pakistani citizens? If someone from Pakistan qualifies under Canadian law to take up permanent residence in Canada, it is their right. Canada cannot favor one nationality and discredit the other on any basis. Its simply not the reputation of Canada, unless the CSIS has another vision for Canada similarly where the US has reached today.

Also, the only lone case where a Pakistani origin Canadian citizen was ever involved in something that CSIS was worried about is Momin Khawaja. Otherwise Pakistani community in Canada has contributed very well as enterprenuers and skilled immigrants. Do not try to equate the situation with UK, the relationship there is very different. UK is Pakistan’s fomer colonial power once ruled the region.
As as a Pakistani who himself has lived and worked abroad I am fully mindful how a single case can have implications for entire nationals of that particular country. But if Canada will discriminate against Pakistanis, then both Pakistan and Canada will loose. The only people laughing will be the ones who have a dark agenda, do i need to name them?

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Umair so gets perturbed by anything slightly hinting at anything unethical and unlawful against Pakistan and Pakistanis that it makes me wonder the source of inspiration… Law and order situation in Pakistan… eh?

Posted by Rohit | Report as abusive
 

Umair,

I am fully familiar with that document, the people who drafted it and the conference that lead to it.

On your other points…

If you qualify sure you get a visa. However, there is no way every application qualifies. And one of the ways an application can fail is if the applicant cannot prove he/she is a security threat. Now I am not suggesting that CSIS (or any other agency) screens out all Pakistanis as security threats because of their nationality. However, you can be sure that in the post 9/11 world (where many Canadians were killed as well), Ahmed Ressam (though he was not Pakistani), the Toronto 18 (some of whom were Pakistani Canadians), etc. there is significantly more scrutiny of potential applicants to this country. And there is a particular emphasis on making sure they aren’t security threats. Applicants from countries of concern (Pakistan is not the only one) or even particular regions of a country (Kashmir, Indian North-East for India for example) are well screened.

As for the dynamic being different between the UK and Pakistan and Canada and Pakistan. You’re right. But the issue of being a former colonial power is only one. The other being that they have a million Pakistani-origin residents and that the majority of their terrorism concerns originate from Pakistan. While Canada has significantly better integrate Pakistani-origin immigrants, there is significant concern among all our government agencies, particularly the security ones (and not just CSIS by the way) about the growth of terrorist sympathies in the Pakistani Canadian communities. And in specific sub-communities. We don’t have problems with Ismailis or Ahmadis in Canada who are usually quite well to do here and well integrated. However, there is a growing concern about rising fundamentalism among mainstream Pakistani immigrants (as well as mainstream Middle Eastern immigrants). From this point of view, we consider ourselves in the same boat as the UK. We are open multi-cultural societies who take in immigrants from all over the world. We’d like them to leave their baggage at home.

It has not happened in the UK. Worse is that immigrants will use an excuse like, “its acceptable because they were the former colonial power or its okay because of the war in Afghanistan and Iraq.” Can you imagine an Afghan refugee or an Indian immigrant in Pakistan blowing up something and then saying its acceptable because Pakistan is meddling in Afghanistan or Kashmir? You would deem them traitors. We’d like to get off that boat before we get into the same choppy waters that the UK is in. We are doing our best to integrate our Pakistani immigrants. And we’ve done much better than most western countries on that count. However, part of our response has been to mandate our security agencies to ensure that we don’t take in applicants who might become potential terrorist threats. This is to keep the country safe and to prevent communities like that of Pakistani Canadian from succumbing to foreign originated extremism. It’s not just terrorists. We don’t want those who will stir up hate in our communities either.

Posted by Keith | Report as abusive
 

Umair,

Have a look at the link you posted and the various scenarios at the end. That gives you an idea of where we think Pakistan is heading. You’ll find scenario one to be extremely unlikely. And scenario three is the likely one but there is a very, very high risk of the worst case scenario (two) coming true. This is why we are concerned about Pakistan. And that dialog by the way included Pakistanis like General Masood (who is one of the most open and honest gentleman I have ever met) and Dr. Siddiqa. You will not that the nuanced scenario was put forward by General Masood, who also suggested that Pakistani support for anti-India activities was a mistake that had come back to bite Pakistan in its rear, and was harming its long term prospects.

Posted by Keith | Report as abusive
 

* correction:

meant to say that an application can fail if the applicant cannot prove that he/she will not be a security threat.

Posted by Keith | Report as abusive
 

Pak Blogger says:

“But if Canada will discriminate against Pakistanis, then both Pakistan and Canada will loose.”

“I want to ask you, how can Canada be selective in implementing immigration laws for Pakistani citizens? If someone from Pakistan qualifies under Canadian law to take up permanent residence in Canada, it is their right.”

–>You are wrong. The CSIS securities’ job is to look at ALL global events and trends, regarding terrorism. Even recently, there was Pakistani linked terrorism in Canada, known as the “Toronto 18″. There are also many Pakistani linked terrorists, like the recent Zazi, who was caught. The security establishment communicates with Interpol to be kept upto date from where terrorists are coming from. All these global Pakistani linked terrorists, how can Canada ignore what is happening? The Immigration service of any country has a duty to observe and act on all security trends to protect Canadians.

For many years, Canada was known as a terrorist’s sanctuary, not any more.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/st ory/CTVNews

/20090610/tor18_link_090610?hub=World

If the bulk of global terrorism is coming from Pak linked terror groups, are you saying that Canada should ignore that? What planet are you living on? For a lack of detailed information on an individual, on the basis of security and terror prevention, Canada has a right and a duty to protect its citizens and evaluate where an individual has lived, where they were born, where they worked their connections, and decide on an individual basis, if they are potential security risks.

Don’t you think Canadians would want people who are from a country that is constantly linked with terrorism? Many terrorist individuals who have immigrated to other countries, have squeeky clean records, yet managed to get through and cause carnage in their host countries.

What is unfair, is that so many countries have to put up with Pakistani linked AND Pakistani terrorism and try to protect their citizens from this and STILL get labelled as UNFAIR? This is not a “Dark Agenda”. It is the duty of each country to protect its citizens from terrorism.

If you feel this is all still unfair, as you drive by on the way to work and see the Pak Military and ISI HQ, those guys have been fueling terrorism for the last 20 years and the world is fed up and trying to protect itself. Those Pak agencies are to blame for the security blowback from other countries, that otherwise good, educated and well-meaning Pakistani’s have to deal with.

Take responsibility, the blame lies with Pak State agencies itself. Don’t think that after years of supporting the Taliban, helping AQ and training terrorists that there is not consequences. The result is every country wanting to deny Pakistanis VISAs, you can blame your army and ISI for that, as we have the duty and right to protect our own.

Posted by GW | Report as abusive
 

“But if Canada will discriminate against Pakistanis, then both Pakistan and Canada will loose. The only people laughing will be the ones who have a dark agenda, do i need to name them?” – Posted by Umair

Just like for everything else, instead of blaming your immigration problems on the host countries & the “dark agenda” of the Indians, why don’t you guys look in the mirror & take some responsibility?
Is it because of the “dark agenda” of the Indians & the racism of the west, that almost every terror attack in the west (successful or foiled) has been proven to have a Pakistani link?
Is that also the reason why Pakistan has become a global terror hub & #1 exporter of terror in the world?
If you do find the need to blame someone, it should be your immoral generals, who have radicalized your country & projected it as the terror capital of the world.

“Do not try to equate the situation with UK, the relationship there is very different. UK is Pakistan’s fomer colonial power once ruled the region”

This is a ridiculous statement. So just because UK once ruled Pakistan, Pakistani terror in the UK is justified? UK ruled more than half the world at some point or the other. Do you see people from the origin of those countries, plotting terror in the UK?
And why should the situation in UK not be looked at by Canada or US? In fact, I bet you that the lawmakers in the US, Canada, Australia etc are looking at the Pakistani problem in the UK & saying “Hell, we don’t want this mess in our country, so let’s prevent it while we can”.

I agree that there are many qualified & legitimately good Pakistanis who deserve better but instead of squarely blaming others, please do some introspection & tell your generals to clean up the mess in your country so that it is perceived differently, than it currently is.

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive
 

Rohit,
As regards my source of inspiration for Pakistan, i will be surprised if you are an Indian and do not feel passionate about it. And the law and order in Pakistan is absolutely fine, this is a huge and resilient country.

Mortal: chill out, i meant the dark agenda belongs to terrorists not India and Keith got my point.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Mortal: chill out, i meant the dark agenda belongs to terrorists not India and Keith got my point.
- Posted by Umair

Sure you did, buddy. I believe you :) !

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive
 

@Umair: “And the law and order in Pakistan is absolutely fine, this is a huge and resilient country”

The other day, I took a yellow cab from near by office bldg in midtown manhattan to go to a meeting in downtown. From the ID card of the cab driver laminated on the back panel, I figured out that he was Pakistani. I asked him where from Pakistan did he come & he said he was from Faisalabad. We started talking in Punjabi, amongst other things about how things were in Pakistan as he mentioned that he had recently visited Pakistan. I asked him about the law & order situation in Pakistan. Looking at me through the rear view mirror, he said that there was a saying in Pakistan for anyone involved in any legal matters “Vakeel ki karna hai, Judge hi kar lo” (translation: Why hire a lawyer, when you can hire a judge).

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive
 

@ Umair

Again perturbed? I was wondering the uncompromisable source of inspiration for justice, righteousness… Law and order situation in Pakistan and what it has been doing in world by creating fertile ground for LeT, JeM, Al Quaeda, Talibani, JuD etc, and also for it’s minorities?

Posted by Rohit | Report as abusive
 

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