Comments on: Talk of Waziristan offensive picks up in Pakistan http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/10/02/talk-of-waziristan-offensive-picks-up-in-pakistan/ Perspectives on Pakistan Thu, 01 Oct 2015 19:31:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: Mansoor Siddiqui http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/10/02/talk-of-waziristan-offensive-picks-up-in-pakistan/comment-page-2/#comment-24077 Tue, 13 Oct 2009 15:52:01 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=3722#comment-24077 Myra,I missed an important part of your question – about the impact of Waziristan operation on Afghanistan.Well, even the imminency of this operation alone is having a salutary effect on Pak-Afghan-NATO alliance.This operation will be a major disruption for the Pakistani Taliban in their role as a conduit of support for the Afghan Taliban. This will also foster deeper trust among the Allies. This operation will also prove that Pakistan is not only thinking of its own national interest but also that of its friendly neighbour, Afghanistan. A major success in Waziristan will decimate the taliban numbers and they will learn to their detriment that a determined modern military force will eventually prevail against their ill founded insurgency.

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By: Mansoor Siddiqui http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/10/02/talk-of-waziristan-offensive-picks-up-in-pakistan/comment-page-2/#comment-24039 Tue, 13 Oct 2009 04:15:20 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=3722#comment-24039 Myra,Let me respond to your question about the likely conduct of the operation in Waziristan by the Pakistani Army.1. Taliban Strategy. This operation is not against a dug-in army or a linear defence. Taliban will be staging ambushes on the advancing troops while bringing them on to a system of strong points defence. Their aim is to inflict as much damage as possible on the troops and then break the cordon and dissolve into the surrounding sanctuaries. As long as they escape in good numbers they can claim victory. The consequences for Pakistan of this will be serious, though not disastrous.2.Pakistan Army Strategy. Scenario A. Going in without substantial help from Lashkars.Pakistani Artillery, supported by the Air Force are going to unleash murderous bombardment and shelling on the strong points inficting heavy casualties. Then the Infantry operating as the vanguard, supported by tanks (wherever possible) and gunship helicopters is going to swiftly overrun the strong points(6 to 8). Cleansing of secondary objectives will be taken up by a composite force of Frontier Corps and whatever Lashkar that they could muster (7,000-10,000). This operation will result in a higher number of casualties but chances of this succeeding are good.Scenario B. Going in with a big Lashkar (15,000-20,000).The pulverising phase will be the same as Scenario A. but the Army will only go for the bigger pockets (4 to 5)and have the reserve troops alongwith the Lashkars for doing a thorough mopping up and enforcing a mobile cordon around the Taliban. This scenario will enable the army to capture a lot of Taliban. Chances of success: good to excellent with fewer casualties.Most important aspect is the participation of the National Lashkar.Use of drones will be crucial to take out the leadership.Operation will probably be over in a week.

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By: GW http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/10/02/talk-of-waziristan-offensive-picks-up-in-pakistan/comment-page-2/#comment-23602 Tue, 06 Oct 2009 16:33:25 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=3722#comment-23602 Shafkat, you said:”I pray for this once beautiful country with its beautiful people which has sold its soul to the devil..”–>You may be right, but avg Pakistani’s choose to keep on seeing India as some sort of green horned devil, hellbent on destroying Pakistan. This absolutely false, incorrect and total propaganda thrust on Pakistani’s so that the Army can get their political support to justify their military budgets, existence and business model.The people of Pakistan have been lied to by the masters of Pakistan, the Army and ISI and to some extent the Saudi’s who are fueling Wahhabism.We have a saying in Hinduism, when you see evil in other people, it is actually evil that you are project onto others, which is originating from your own mind and own heart.The only way to cut the chain from the devil, is people need to start thinking more positively and quit this blind hatred against India, Kaffirs, Israel and non-muslims alike. All peoples are human beings FIRST, before they are christians, muslims or hindus.The actual devil is within all of us, when we devalue human life, constantly or have been told to devalue other humans who are not as good as us, because they practice a different belief, we become the hands of the devil, when we devalue the human life of other peoples, nations and cultures. With respect to Pakistan, avg Pakistani’s some of them willfully choose to be hands of the devil, perhaps without knowing it, and a misplaced sense of nationality and misplaced sense of religious mission.When you project negativity towards others, like the militants and some Pakistani’s do, they will always suffer at the hands of their own doing and always fall on their own knife and never end this vicious cycle of hatred that keeps one drunk on venom and unwilling to accept blame for oneself and responsibility, that is the true evil.Pakistan as a culture, has to break free from the mental shackles of the daily propaganda, that is keeping them from seeing the truth. Until they choose to break that cycle, the collective thoughts and actions of Pakistani citizens will determine their future and the kind of life that they are going to have.

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By: GW http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/10/02/talk-of-waziristan-offensive-picks-up-in-pakistan/comment-page-2/#comment-23601 Tue, 06 Oct 2009 16:20:28 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=3722#comment-23601 Keith you said:”Claiming credit for securing their own country is a bit like a parent who wants a reward for raising their own child. It’s something you have to do, not something that’s optional that you deserve a reward for.Yet, the moment you start talking to any Pak official about the groups that really bother us in Afghanistan, they either a) change the subject or b) launch into long polemics about how its a complicated situation and the terrain is difficult, and Pakistan’s interest have to be preserved, blah blah blah. “–>Thank you first of all for giving sobering doses of reality on these blogs, you always have a direct and clear, rationale for all of your statements and arguements.Next, you hear certain bloggers saying how many soldiers they have sacrificed, well that is good that they are finally challenging militantism, or at least appearing to, time will tell. My respects to the soldiers and their families, but this Fungus and Mold of militantism was enabled and allowed to grow by the Pakistan Army and ISI itself, as they sat by idly and complacently, even hoping to weaponize the Jihadi’s for the own means in Afghan and against India, the same Fungus and Mold has started challenging the Pak Army itself.If Pakistani’s are upset about their soldiers dying, they should be, but their anger should be directed at the Pak Army and ISI establishment itself.Pak Army’s love affair with Islamist Militantism must come to a conclusive end. The world also expects it to finish and destroy all strategic proxy army assets and their training camps, supported, morally or otherwise by the State of Pakistan to wage Jihad on India over the lame Kashmir excuse. I find it hard to believe that Pakistan wastes away more than half its GDP, just to save Indian Kashmiri’s. It is to line the pockets of the Punjabi Army and propagate their business model to keep their own employability and profile high, to suit their political propaganda requirements. Kashmir will fix itself, once Pakistan stops fueling terrorism on India. In the mean time, Obama should cut the U.S. Military loose onto Pakistan and let them go strong arm Pakistan, as necessary to get the job done, in a conclusive manner.These Islamist people are uneducated idle vacant miscreants, drunk on needing a mission in life. Pakistan is in dire need of education, capitalism and democracy to civilize its population, while the U.S. will civilize the Pak military.In the mean time, the U.S. troop surge is slated at around 40,000 troops. It should be much more, it should be around 200,000 troops, Afghanistan.

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By: Shafkat http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/10/02/talk-of-waziristan-offensive-picks-up-in-pakistan/comment-page-2/#comment-23588 Tue, 06 Oct 2009 06:40:18 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=3722#comment-23588 Pak-is-tan … Can someone tell me the meaning of the name ??Someone tells me it means .. The Land Of The PURE ??Is this true ??I pray for this once beautiful country with its beautiful people which has sold its soul to the devil..Shafkat

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By: Keith http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/10/02/talk-of-waziristan-offensive-picks-up-in-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-23541 Mon, 05 Oct 2009 21:05:35 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=3722#comment-23541 2) Keith, others – do you have a sense of how any operation in Waziristan will impact Afghanistan?Also interested in anything you pick up on which groups were involved in that attack in Nuristan.Myra- Posted by Myra MacDonaldExcellent question Myra. In my view, not much. Which is why I can’t ever understand why Pakistanis want credit for such operations. Ops in places like Waziristan and Swat are largely so that the Pakistanis can save themselves. That’s in the interest of the west, to be sure. We don’t want to have to deal with another failed state. However, it does very little to help us in Afghanistan. We’ve been very clear that the only actions we consider to be truly helpful from our perspective is the PA going after those groups that are wreaking havoc in Afghanistan. That means groups like Haqqani. Till they do that, I doubt anybody is really going to count them as a reliable ally regardless of however many soldiers they lose fighting anti-Pakistani insurgent groups.Claiming credit for securing their own country is a bit like a parent who wants a reward for raising their own child. It’s something you have to do, not something that’s optional that you deserve a reward for.Yet, the moment you start talking to any Pak official about the groups that really bother us in Afghanistan, they either a) change the subject or b) launch into long polemics about how its a complicated situation and the terrain is difficult, and Pakistan’s interest have to be preserved, blah blah blah. I can’t buy any of this. If that was the case, does that mean that if Haqqani turned on them the Pakistanis would not be able to neutralize a threat to their own country? So they are either lying to us or they have a monster without a leash that they’re hoping will only keep nipping at the neighbours and not them. Either way, that’s not a desirable position to be in, for those that want to stabilize Afghanistan and want a return to stability in Pakistan.As for your second question… sorry nothing at this time.

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By: never forget mumbai http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/10/02/talk-of-waziristan-offensive-picks-up-in-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-23533 Mon, 05 Oct 2009 16:25:00 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=3722#comment-23533 Anyone who thinks building a wall is the answer should read the article by Praveen Swami -Posted by Myra MacDonaldBy this article, I assume you were telling me that there are alternate routes to Jihad via Gulf. Great surprise :). Frankly, most of the local problems (Indian origin) can be solved by more intelligence on the ground – keeping tabs on SIMI members, profiling for at risk groups, and surveillance on people who travel to Gulf regularly. Unfortunately all this targets minorities disproportionately and we should recognize that this is a short term solution. In the longer run, we need justice, equality before the law and a sense of security for our minorities.I on the other hand remain haunted by nightmares that another Mumbai 26/11 will recur unless we secure our borders with Pak – land and sea. Pakistan lacks either the ability or intention or both to tackle the Terrorists that use Pak as their base (I do not use the word militant on purpose). And I want no part of the blow back if the US Afghanistan misadventure goes South. Who do you think is next on the jihadi hit list up there with US and Israel? India. And unfortunately, we cannot change our geographic location or neighbors :(All I want is to lead my life peacefully – and to the extent that a good security barrier helps us – please lets get it as a starting point.

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By: rajeev http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/10/02/talk-of-waziristan-offensive-picks-up-in-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-23532 Mon, 05 Oct 2009 15:59:40 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=3722#comment-23532 @Do not assume that the US is the only power that can bail us out. We have China as our trusted allies.”–Mohammed Anjum–Means you will not even think (yes think in theory even) of becoming self-reliant. After China, who next?@Pakistan is easy to blame because no one wants to be our friends at this time.”–Why not?@The Americans could have easily taken out OBL and finished the Taliban off in 2001. But they allowed them to escape first and then have been pretending to be chasing them, while conveniently blaming Pakistan.”–No ISI has (had) the best intelligence as far as A-Q and Talibans are concerned. you took thousand of terrorist in what is known as “operation evil escape” by the West and “operation great escape” by pak generals.@ As far Afghan Taliban, it is up to the Americans to deal with them.”–No. Pak created Afgh Taliban in 1994 and they must finish them off, if they are allies.@If they go to the Russians and others, it is simply more clowns joining he circus.–more clowns? you mean in addition to Pakistan?@We are not doomed as you wish. We have the Chinese support and you westerners must really be worried about China emerging as the next super power.”–always think of dependence. the unrealistic dreams. you can afford to have them–neither your govt nor the leaders have that luxury.@And Pakistan will work with them (CHINA) to build a new world in which the Western power brokers and their side-kicks like India will be pushed to the fringe.— Oh the dreams again. When was the last time you BUILT A THING. Reality is staring in the face right now. new world order! Indian on the fringe—-Mohammed, it is time to wake up now! Because realities are based on some actions.@We are only counting the number of days for your defeated forces to leave from here. As far keeping Pakistan united and rebuilding it, trust me, we will do it.”–After US/NATO-exit you bring out OBL, Mullah Omar and install them back and the terrorist empire will be back in action. That is the rebuilding you are talking here.IN nutshell, 62 yrs and you cannot even in theory dream that Pakistan will quit terrorism and become a normal nation. Oh Qaide-Azam Jinnah! what Pakistan have you given to the world? Are you rolling in the grave?

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By: rajeev http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/10/02/talk-of-waziristan-offensive-picks-up-in-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-23529 Mon, 05 Oct 2009 13:28:34 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=3722#comment-23529 @Rajeev,I have posted a map before, but it doesn’t work well in a small photo. And re the PA photo, next time I write about Siachen I’ll balance it out with a photo of me with an Indian rifle.-MyraMyra: I am so looking forward to your photograph with rifle :-)Thanks for your involvement in the discussion.Regards,Rajeev

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By: rajeev http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2009/10/02/talk-of-waziristan-offensive-picks-up-in-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-23528 Mon, 05 Oct 2009 13:22:15 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=3722#comment-23528 Myra:@On your comments on the electorate not voting for Hindutva, and on Praveen Togadia no longer being a well-known name, I don’t think that comes across in the outside world.–But what do you know about Togadia, please tell that here. By not doing so you are endorsing the lack of knowledge of the “outside world”.Why don’t you tell the readers what you said long time ago that BJP with Kashmir backchannel on its resume was in favor of peace with Pakistan (direct contrast to its common image) and is not simple to say it is rightwing—some thing along these lines you said, if you recall. That was in response to my statement on congress vs BJP during elections. Am I right? That would be media helping the issues. Otherwise this discussion is making perception stuff even murkier than it actually is.

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