Uzayr: So you believe the above. This is another way of saying f### off. Any way, OBL admits he did.

@The Taliban are often angry Afghans whose family members were killed in “precise” air strikes.
–Could you tell us about those Talibans running wild in Afghanistan under the blessings of Pakistan/Saudis/UAE. Taliban govt doing the same barbaric acts approved by ISI. OBL entered the scene later and that internationalised the regional problem. Then all those shared facilities in E. pakistan for training terrorists for Kashmir and other places. There was no precision strike until 1997 when Taliban was occupying 2/3rd of Afghnistan. Why is it that you are trying to show readers a twisted version?

Nobody comes out of the womb with Kleshnikov sure. I can agree on that much only and nothing else and will not paint a killer as a victim. Regional boss after 1989 has been ISI and they ruined it and now they perhaps are ruing it.

Geez…Myra, Myra, Myra…please do not be so naive. Our rulers are blood thirsty incompetents…lying, murdering thieves…I’d think after 25 years you’d finally realize that.

The Taliban poses absolutely no threat to the United States or anyone else outside of the Afg-Pak-Iran. The Taliban is funded and influenced by Saudi Wahabi extremism. After the Soviet occupation, a vacuum of power existed…the Saudis took this opportunity to create one of the most oppressive regimes in modern history.

Was Bin Laden Saudi or Afghan? Did the Taliban attack us or the Saudis? Did the Taliban not offer to hand over Bin Laden after 9/11 if we offered proof? The Taliban are often angry Afghans whose family members were killed in “precise” air strikes.

Saudi is to blame. Not Afghanistan. Not Iraq. Not Iran. SAUDI. And who holds hands with Saudi? Bush. Who bows to Saudi? Obama.
The United States will not leave Afghanistan nor will it leave Iraq (not a real withdrawal). The US is simply increasing its empire while US citizens suffer without health care.

This war is pointless. The puppet elections are pointless. The US/allies will get what they want: power, control, and the Trans-Afghanistan pipeline.

Yes you are right about Pak and Afghanistan Taliban not much different.
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buddha:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world  /us/US-tells-Pak-not-to-use-aid-for-con frontation-against-India/articleshow/515 3988.cms

Quote”"On Thursday night, the US Senate voted 68-29 on measures which aim at ensuring that U.S military resources provided to Pakistan are not squandered or diverted to adversely affect the ”balance of power in the region,” an oblique reference to New Delhi’s long standing gripe that Pakistan ends up using U.S military aid to wage war against India.

“”"This provision simply ensures that the American peoples’ tax dollars are being used for their intended purpose,” Senator Bob Corker, Republican from Tennessee and co-author of the measure along with Democrat Robert Menendez of New Jersey, said. “That fight (against terrorism) is important to our own national security, and we have to ensure that our support for it is not being squandered or diverted,” Menendez added. Neither mentioned India directly.

“Lawmakers were helped in this regard by reported acknowledgement by Pakistan’s former dictator Pervez Musharraf that he had diverted US aid to Pakistan to bulk up against India. ……

“”Pakistan’s subsequent whining about the conditions in the Kerry-Lugar Bill has in fact begun to now anger Congress. Earlier this week, Virginia Congressman Frank Wolf was reported to have snapped at visiting Pakistan Senator Syed Zafar Ali Shah when he complained about conditions being attached to US aid to Pakistan.

”I KNOW WHY ARE YOU HERE… IF YOU DON’T LIKE THE BILL DON’T TAKE THE MONEY,” an angry Wolf was quoted by a Pakistan journalist as having told Shah.

“Senator John Kerry, co-author of the Kerry-Lugar bill conveyed pretty much the same message more politely during his recent visit to Islamabad, saying PAKISTAN WAS NOT OBLIGED TO TAKE ACCEPT THE MONEY IF IT DID NOT LIKE THE CONDITIONS.

“But inasmuch as the legislation demands scrutiny, there is also enough wiggle room for the administration to conduct policy on its terms.

“For instance, in the matter of end-use restrictions, while the bill enjoins the Secretary of Defence to “establish and carry out a programme to provide for the registration and end-use monitoring of defence articles and defence services transferred to Afghanistan and Pakistan,” it also allows him to “exempt a defence article or defence service from the registration and end-use monitoring requirements if he deems it in the US interest to do so.”

You have a point here. Charlie Wilson’s doctrine was like any (american) football coach shouting ‘we need to win at any cost’. Taliban took birth as a result. We can not change history but can learn lessons from same and steer future accordingly. The US donations are huge amounts and PA is building a solid conventional weapons system. The monies as intended should go to welfare, building democracy and education blunting the effect of madarassas. Easily with american monies the PA is creating an army that will be viewed with fear by neighbors like Iran, Afghanistan and central asian countries,all neighbors of Pak. Why should Iran, from this angle, remain complacent and compromise its own security when it is surrounded by sunni militaries armed to the teeth. The blame should be placed at the doorstep of donors, for unregulated ( read irresponsible) shovel feeding of an unstable nation, especially with the prospects of falling into the hands of militants. Its already too late. Auditors from IMF/UN should monitor the utilization of funds, just like the elections are monitored these days, and strings should be attached all the way to every dollar given.

Buddha

We seem to be in agreement over your terrorist/my asset foolishness that Pakistan seems thrive on and which is now coming back to bite the hand that fed it.

However, I don’t buy into this Afghan Taliban as different from the Pak Taliban. They are both Taliban, with the same agenda – an Islamic state according to their version. There are Afghans and Pakistanis in the Taliban but they are limbs of the same body. Differentiating between them as strategic assets and enemy as is being done now by the Pak establishment is paving the way for even more trouble in future.

Your synopsis on the birth of Taliban is on target. I would just like to add that though the Pak Army was in fact the command center of the Jihad, it was done with the full support and knowledge of the Americans. The US aim was predominantly to cut the Soviets to size. Pakistan, on the other hand, was in it to increase its control and influence over Afghanistan and being paid by the US to do it. You scratch my back I scratch yours.

To-day the US is hunting and being hunted by the same Taliban. There is a lesson here for Pakistan – ‘you next.’ What is astonishing is that they don’t seem to fully appreciate it even now.

The turbulence in Afghanistan started with the overthrow of Shah Zahir by his brother who was later overthrown by the two fighting factions of the Marxists known as Khalq and Parcham. There was a succession of leaders like Taraki and Kamal. Eventually, the Parchams with the help of the soviets staged a coup and placed Najibullah, the head of the secret service, Khad, as the dictator.

When the mujahideen started their insurgency against the soviet protege, they asked for the help of the soviet, which they provided.

The civil war in Afghanistan became more “interesting” when foreign mujahideen, mostly arabs, came in to fight the jihad. But when the americans decided to support the mujhaideen, Paks accepted as a godsend. IT IS A BALD FACED LIE WHEN PAKS PRETEND TO BE INNOCENT VICTIMS.

The war was NOT imposed on Paks, they took it as a hungry man takes to halwa offered on a platter. Far from being a reluctant partner, they insisted that all US aid to the mujahideen be channelled through them and they, in fact, became the command center of the jihad against the soviets and not a mere facilitating party.

Paks not only picked up the bag, they owned it and ran with it. Paks created a special force, called taleban, from the afghan refugees in Pakistan and supported them in all kinds of manner to ensure their victory against other warlords in Afghanistan.

If the Paks had not supported the taleban and left war lords to sort out their problems by themselves, Russians, Iranians and Indians would not have supported the Northern Alliance and Afghanistan would perhaps have saved itself the catastrophe that has befallen it.

The people of whole region is suffering because of the megalomaniac dreams of the pak army. What is the role of the supposedly innocent “moderate” paks in the civilian population and media….they were either smug partners or looked other way as long as the jihadi gun was on the people of neighbouring countries.

In summary, there are no innocent paks- military or civvies.

I see you are shifting the gears with this article–using expression like “This Sunni-Shi’ite faultline” and “Such is the power of the Sunni Islamist movement”.

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Dara:
@I sees very little evidence that the LeT is on any priority list of the army or the Pakistani administration ….This is a mistake of going back to the good/bad terrorist/freedom fighter syndrome. Eventually the same monster will surface with drastic consequences to attack its sponsors as history repeats itself. That is the hallmark of terrorist organisations – they have no compunction on being ruthless on their own benefactors once they gain enough power. An asset turns to a migraine overnight.”
- Posted by Dara

Dara: People in Pakistan are believed to have changed their views and are against “certain” terrorists. But this still is “certain terrorists” not all.

Pakistan establishment is not there yet. Pakistan leaders/generals do so far are unwilling to raise their voice against Afghanistan Taliban. S. Waziristan is tough battle but it still is against Pakistan taliban and is the result of Afghanistan Taliban which Pakistan created. But Pakistan so far has been unwilling to have any anti-Afgh-Taliban policy. Same on the other side of the border, Pakistan might have noticed some Punjabi terrorists collaborating with Pak-Taliban in suicide bombings in pak, but Pak is still not ready to believe that LeT/JeM type Org carry the potential to turn against the state. All these terror organizations are not contained in some water tight compartments, they all talk to each other and from West POV, they have links with Al-Qaida.

Until people and the powers do not realize all terrorist/militants unacceptable, terrorism will stay.
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can anyone tell me how the weapons get into the hands of terrorists. All I hear is open markets etc, freely available and the loot of the US/NATO ammunition.