Bombs and tipping points: Pakistan and Northern Ireland

October 30, 2009

When Northern Ireland’s Omagh bomb exploded, killing 29 people, I was in England, by cruel coincidence attending the wedding of a young man who had been badly injured in another attack in the town of Enniskillen more than a decade earlier.

I had just switched my phone on after leaving the church on a glorious, sunny Saturday afternoon when my news editor called. “There’s been a bomb. It sounds bad. We’re trying to get you on a flight.”

Memories of Omagh returned this week when a massive car bomb ripped through a market in the Pakistani city of Peshawar, killing more than 100 people, many of them women and children.

Will the Taliban’s bloody assault on Pakistan’s cities deprive them of popular support and ultimately lead to their defeat?

The BBC’s Urdu service had reported earlier this month that sympathy for the Taliban in Peshawar — where many are deeply hostile to the United States — was waning due to the violence being unleashed on the border city since the Army began its assault on the militants’ South Waziristan stronghold.

Was this a sign the Islamists were overreaching themselves on their war against the Pakistani state, much as they had done in Swat?

Against that, as others have pointed out on this blog, a coherent leadership that might unite a stricken country against its attackers has yet to emerge.

In the immediate aftermath of Omagh there was a widespread fear that the Northern Ireland’s fledgling peace process would unravel in a familiar grim spiral of reprisal and counter-reprisal.

In fact, the opposite happened. Such was the revulsion at Omagh that the “Real IRA”, the breakaway faction behind the attack, was finished as a serious threat.

It can be dangerous and misleading to look for parallels between very different conflicts on opposite sides of the world. But tipping points in seemingly intractable conflicts do happen. The problem is, they are impossible to predict and often only apparent long after the event.

(Reuters photos: Peshawar; Omagh)


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Pakistan and Northern Ireland are completely different. The Northern Ireland conflicts did not involve suicide bombings.

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive

Your intentions are good but your comparison is way off….by light years in astronomical terms. The comparison is an insult to the gentle people of Ireland.

Posted by Raj | Report as abusive

It is true that the Ireland situation did not involve suicide bombings.

However, it certainly involved the indiscriminate killing of British and Irish civilians by the IRA and similar groups.

The conflict also involved some proxy bombings. This was where an innocent civilian would have their family threatened, and the innocent forced to drive a carbomb to its target and have it detonate while they were at the wheel.

And that isn’t even mentioning the snipers, pipe bombs, beatings, carbombs and murders.

The people of Ireland may be gentle. But the past of their nation is a lesson in viciousness. They have shown that terrorism is a way to secure concessions from a stronger enemy, provided one is willing to spill as much innocent blood as needed to gain those concessions.

Lessons which have been taken to heart by contemporary terrorist groups.

Posted by Anon | Report as abusive

The only similarity between Ireland and Af/Pak is terrorism. The similarity ends there. All the other conditions are vastly different between the two cases. In Pakistan it is more like Bosnia Herzegovina where centuries of animosity between Christian Serbs and their Muslim Serb cousins manifested in the form of ethnic cleansing and disintegration. Pakistan’s current experience is rooted in hundreds of years of similar history. All the hatred towards others is not a recent pheonomenon. Therefore it will take a lot more time to heal. The conditions there are only aggravating it than mitigate. Pakistan is on the verge of turning into another Yugoslavia. It the US that has helped them stay on with support. And the patience on the American side is running out. Unlike Yugoslavia, there are nukes involved. No matter how much people can say about how safe they are, it would not take much time for the desperate terrorists to take over their system. The terrorists will try to get to the nukes to get the US make the wrong move of attacking targets inside Pakistan. If that succeeds, anti-Americanism will erupt everywhere. The terrorists’ plan would be to increase chaos and confusion by targeting urban centers more and more. As the military is zeroing in on the Waziristan region, the terrorists have already sneaked out and spread across the nation to make the shocking assault on the rear. A lot of unfortunate events are about to unfold in the near future. I see no resolution. Only escalation is going to happen in this region.

Posted by Mauryan | Report as abusive

They have shown that terrorism is a way to secure concessions from a stronger enemy, provided one is willing to spill as much innocent blood as needed to gain those concessions.

– Posted by Anon

I differ with you Anon. The viciousness and brutality of pakistani terrorists does not even come remotely close to that of the Irish.

Let’s take the example of Pakistan’s use of terrorism in India as a negotiating tool and as a tool just to break India. In this process Pakistan has grown weaker, with stunted growth of economy, sectarian strife, tarnishing of its brand name, etc…but India has grown stronger and hasn’t budged one bit. And with the latest pakistani terrorist attack in India, communal harmony between Indian muslims and non-muslim Indian citizens has been strengthened. We are more optimistic than ever about communal harmony in India.

I would like to know your thoughts on this so far ineffective performance of pakistani terrorist activity against India.

I appreciate your expertise and look forward to your input. Thanks.

Posted by Raj | Report as abusive

well first of all the comparison is a bit odd…. its just like giving the situation of any blast in history and compare it to current bombings in Pakistan.

Secondly, taliban are not the only one doing all this, this is becoming more clear and clear each day. In many of the occasions of bombings in Pakistan taliban admitted that they have done this but in Peshawar case no one admits. also the culture should be kept in mind. Taliban people however brutal they are they cannot attack a market designed especially for kids and women. its a fact and ask any Pakistani he will admit that. so I would say that these speculations are a bit weak and need to be given more strength.

Posted by Farooq | Report as abusive

Religion has a lot to answer for.

Posted by Dawkins | Report as abusive

“Religion has a lot to answer for.”
– Posted by Dawkins

Very True.

Posted by Billy Dunn | Report as abusive

Terrorism is a way to gain concessions. It is not the only way, nor does it always succeed.

It is true that Pakistani terrorism has not succeeded in gaining concessions from India. But there are reasons for that.

-First, the Pakistani terrorists were not seeking concessions from India, rather they were seeking to provoke India.

-Secondly, the Pakistani government are not seeking concessions from India. Because they know that any open links to terrorist activity would cause an international backlash (not to mention a possible war with India).

Plus there are times when terrorism can fail, when a nation is willing to fight it with all strength.

Examples are shown by Lebenon and Gaza. Both occassions where a terror group struck Israel’s territory, only to provoke Israel to wrath. Another example is Sri Lanka, where overwhelming military force has succeeded in defeating the LTTE.

But in situations where the terrorist is imbedded in an occupied area, or where they seek to tear down their own government, their effectiveness is boosted many times.

Examples being the IRA in North Ireland. Or the Taliban who are now located in Western Pakistan provences. Or the maoists in Nepal.

Pakistani terrorists will never be able to defeat or break India, quite true.

But they may well defeat or break Pakistan, if they are willing to be vicious enough against their own people. That is the important issue here.

We can only hope that Pakistan’s army and people are ready for the fight. If they fall or make concessions to terror, it is bad for all concerned. India included.

Posted by Anon | Report as abusive

well i m a pakistani citizen and living in Peshawar i know what is the reality and the reality is that these pethatic tribal animals are doing all that they have always been jealous from Pakistani living in stone ages these monkeys neither they ve any life and nor they want any one else to flourish the only dangerous drug and land mafia are these tribals like AFRIDI ORAKZAI MOMAND WAZIR MEHSUD BUGTI and others People in Pakistan been blaming agencies CIA did that MOSAD did that i tell them they are our enemies offcourse but these recent terrible blast got nothing to do with them actually these are agencies with in Pakistan like BAJOUR AGENCY MOMAND AGENCY KHYBER AGENCY AND WAZIRISTAN AGENCY kidnappers killers mafia they really destroy the peace of Pakistan kidnap man from Pakistan for money even if they kill any Pakistani what would happen nothing who will go after these terrorists to bring them to justice specially in Nwfp IS completely under there ugly control they have mafia of business land mafia and the worst of them is drug mafia we poor Peshawaries just can look at sky and ask God for help and then God sends a DRONE to help us if there is any thing i appreciate USA is for these DRONES in tribal belts we neither have weapons like them nor our life style is pethatic like there living in groups of ppl ilke jackals and animals live the shelterers of terrorists Allah save Pakistan

Posted by PESHAWARY | Report as abusive

Ireland V Pakistan,

I fully endorse the views expressed by Raj on this post. The Ireland and British, at least have some civility and approachability. You could make them answerable to some extent. But in case of Pakistan, all these values are totally missing and absent. A nation founded on the false premises and deciet from its very inception is difficult to cure of its malaise. The malaise continue unabeted.

The leadership in Pakistan has no shame in changing their stance even within next second, either verbally or in writing. If you do not sing their tune and lyrics, you are not acceptable. They start a vicious and malicious screech on mikes like their daily prayers world over. The various international reports on Kashmir has shown their behaviour amply.

Despite all these, the most amazing phenomenon recorded in
the history is that US is still keeping and maintaining a complete blind eye knowing it fully well. A more detailed discussion may be out of place here. But this is the real and big difference between Ireland and Pakistan. The US has been keen and sincere to resolve the Irish issue. But
they are keen to keep it alive in Pakistan, to find an ally for their multitudes of vested interests with no empathy to the regional and ethnic people. This is a very shrewd western move, difficult for the Pakistan to ken .

I am sorry if it sounds harsh but it is the ground reality that has to be addressed by the US Govt sincerely and by a positive realisation through the bitter experiences in this region since 1947, at least. Pakistan today understands only one rhetoric: “AMERICA” “AMERICA” and nothing else. I am happy at least, there is some realisation, but the implementation is lacking totally. I hear Mrs Hillary Clinton’s surprise exclaim that it is hard to believe that Pakistan does not know the where abouts of terrorists in their country. At least some sense is donning. But a lot needs to be done by America.

We are all aware in india as to how much are we suffering and subsidizing Kashmir and our Muslim population, even at the cost of all others in the country. But a few select, as President Obama very rightly observed at Cairo, that a few handful are tarnishing the image of Islam as against the larger peace loving majority. Therefore it is the duty of the larger peace loving section to openly condemn both on the street as well as in the “HOUSES”. Mere sloganising that Islam is a peace loving religion will not, perhaps be enough to convince the World body, let alone the South Asia.

I may, here remind the OIC too to start playing a positive
role, in stead of trying to inflame the pseudo passion. If
the Pakistan has not realised from their conduct so far, I am afraid the fears of world community are not wholly unfounded for suspecting Pakistan “A FAILED STATE”.

Therefore, both the Pakistan and US has to think,”Now or Never”. The time lost will never return and does not forgive anyone however mighty one may think.

Please realise, wake up, and act; don’t react. Clock is ticking fast.

Good sense prevail on all. Peace should prevail.

A well wisher in the interest of World Peace,

Dr. O. P. Sudrania

Posted by Dr. O. P. Sudrania | Report as abusive

Religion has a lot to answer for.

– Posted by Dawkins

need a correction here
some religions have a lot to answer for.

Posted by azad | Report as abusive

Unlike the Irish terror groups, the Pakistani groups undertake attacks and then blame RAW, Mossad, the CIA, etc. and the best part of this tale is that eager Pakistanis believe them because they can’t accept that Muslims would kill Muslims. With this explanation in place, pulic support for the jihadists will remain in place. To paraphrase Golda Meier, as long as Pakistanis hate India, the US, infidels, etc. More than they care for their own, there can be no peace. After all, are Pakistanis really willing to crackdown on the same guys they cheer on when those dying are Western troops or Indian civilians? The Irish always cared more about themselves than killing Brits. That’s the difference.

Posted by Keith | Report as abusive

Prof Dawkins’ comment is understandable, being an atheist.
I shall not like to digress from my real issue.

Coming to Keith’s observation, I did have some chance to see and observe the IRA activities during my stay in Scotland. I agree with him but there are some other diferences too. I did not go in length to save digresion and needless comparison between two totally diferent and dissimilar problems. You can not or should not start a comparison between one domestic cat and one wild cat. Either compare a pair of domestic cats or a pair of wild cats. That may make some better sense, as I put it simplistically.

Other problem is that India is a unique country, where the
majority is taken in account (I mean the votes, not the people) during election vote counts. For the rest of time,
the majority (this time I mean the people, not the number) not only remain marginalised, it is communal to talk of, but it is secular if you talk of an individual name of a minority section. Can you give me a name of another nation similar on this account? I can not think of. Yet nobody in this nation seems to be happy – neither the minority, nor the majority.

What a paradoxical social phenomenon?

Dr. O. P. Sudrania

Posted by Dr. O. P. Sudrania | Report as abusive

I have been reading all the comments posted. Some of them with good points but some bias.Before we really assume or conclude the reason, I think the reality on the ground is worth thinking about.

To some extent we can compare Pakistan and Ireland where killing of innocent civilians especially women and children are involved but other than that it is a completely different story.

The history tells us Afghanistan and adjacent (tribal ares) ares of Pakistan were never under the rule of any Government, they were governed by loose alliances of different tribes but not outside rulers.

When United States left Afghanistan after the Soviet war these ares were in ciaos like situation, submerged by war between different groups has ravaged the entire Afghanistan. Pakistan has been effected since 1979 when the Soviets first entered the area to reach and capture warm waters of Arabian sea. I do not need to remind everybody what happened during that period in Pakistan and for any doubts, just read history.After Afghanistan, Pakistan was the second effected country in this regional conflict.

During soviet and after their defeat Pakistan has no other option to get involve in Afghanistan with more than 5 millions Afghan migrants on its soil.

It is just recently accepted by US politicians that they also bear the responsibility for current situation in Afghanistan. After 9 11 when US finally realized that Afghanistan should have been dealt with but it was already too late the damage was already in place and now the only question is how to curtail the situation. When US tried to control Afghanistan with its ongoing war in Iraq. It was not easy to bring Afghanistan back to peace.

After all the efforts by NATO and US the peace seems to be a distance target. They were lucky to found an valuable partner in the shape of India because of its geographical positions and situation in that area. It is all open how many times the US and NATO intelligence officials visited India. The strategy came out of those meetings is to bring the war in Pakistan. With the help of Indian and some other intelligence agencies the best strategy is to create war in Pakistan.

By doing this the intention is to divert the Pakistan’s attention to its own problems, So ISI Pakistan’s intelligence agency will not concentrate in Afghanistan.

In Pakistan buying alliance from some of the tribes is not difficult.So now there are two groups of Taliban, one who is not waging war but fighting with NATO forces in Afghanistan and 2nd who is sponsored by Western and Indian intelligence waging war in Pakistan. It is posted by different people that that RAW, CIA or some of the other western intelligence agencies has nothing to do. It is rubbish to say they are not involved, they are very much involve in Afghanistan, only what India is doing in Baluchistan and tribal areas of Pakistan with its 8 consulate offices in Afghanistan. Do we need to assume they are there for ordinary Afghanistan people no way, every one knows why are they here.

Now the government is Afghanistan which is hostile to Pakistan. It was easy to get RAW, CIA, and KHAD on the same board, the purpose is to destabilize Pakistan. Some of my friend who posted their comments here may agree with me, but this is reality.

The international politics’s is a great chess game that is way beyond ordinary person to understand. US is on one hand helping Pakistan by providing financial assistance but at the same time providing support to some of the hostile groups in the Pakistan. According to my information there are hundreds of millions are poured into this area to create problems. It is very interesting US is trying to show good face here in Pakistan but everyone knows history. Although US with the help of other intelligence agencies is able to change the mood of ordinary person in Pakistan that Taliban’s are bad but at what cost.

It is unfortunate Alqaeda was in Afghanistan, but Pakistan had nothing to do with it. Pakistan was trying to make sure that they have peaceful neighbor in their backyard in case of War with India, so they don’t need to worry about that border. It is unfortunate the Taliban’s there took advantage of Pakistan’s hospitality and allied with bad people.

Now Afghanistan is mess because of so many powers are trying to have their influence in the region. Pakistan because of its ethnicity like in Afghanistan and long history of involvement during Soviet era is in best position to influence. It is true any power with its agenda and stake cannot completely control Afghanistan unless they deal with Pakistan. The question is how and why and to answer this question I leave it to you.

Posted by casper | Report as abusive

Well when you’ve got a previously convicted super-criminal in power in Pakistan there’s not going to be much hope for keeping the country united..
US pressure on the corrupt leader of Pakistan to fix America’s problem in Afghanistan is going to turn the whole region into a war zone.
You watch it’s happening right now.

Posted by brian | Report as abusive

Ireland vs Pakistan comparisons are good for academic interests and have no other use.

Thanks for your insights. And there was nothing in there. It was just unsophisticated addition to already going-on anti-RAW/CIA/Mossad chatter which some good Pakistanis media is trying to tackle. This good Pakistani media is telling people like you and many other gullible Pakistanis to start looking at things differently and to Pakistan elites to start taking blame rather than accusing others and stop seeing enemy lurking behind the door. But this media obviously is fighting a losing battle. The clarity with which people like you see India/US/NATO alliance in bringing war into Pakistan makes me think as if you were a fly on the wall in that meeting if at all it happened in India or were standing outside the room with ear pasted against the door. Fly on the wall obviously you were not, but where does this leave you in your strong belief of foreign forces tearing apart Pakistan?

@It is rubbish to say they (RAW, CIA) are not involved, they are very much involve in Afghanistan, only what India is doing in Baluchistan and tribal areas of Pakistan with its 8 consulate offices in Afghanistan.”
–But isn’t it rubbish to say that they are involved, especially when you do not even know that India has 4 consulates not 8 in Afghanistan—Herat, Jalalabad, Mazare-Sharif, Kabul but you are much better than those who say 20-40 consulates.

@Do we need to assume they are there for ordinary Afghanistan people no way, every one knows why are they here.”
-I can tell you about India. India is doing non-military work and has spent over 1 billion dollars in Afghanistan at the risk of your friends Taliban retaliation. Relationship between two countries will be much stronger if they are for mutual benefits (rather than altruism). India and Afghanistan both benefit for Indian presence in Afghanistan. I ask you this: what did Afghans and Afghanistan gained when Pakistan was in Afghanistan? The gains were in negative.

@ Although US with the help of other intelligence agencies is able to change the mood of ordinary person in Pakistan that Taliban’s are bad but at what cost.”
–Oh, so you think Taliban is good. That’s a gem. If US et al are really involved then they are not doing job because you still think Taliban are good—even after they blow Pakistani men/women/security and take blame for it. But you without any basis will blame India and US and others to break Pakistan.

@It is unfortunate Alqaeda was in Afghanistan, but Pakistan had nothing to do with it. Pakistan was trying to make sure that they have peaceful neighbor in their backyard in case of War with India, so they don’t need to worry about that border.”
–pakistan had everything to do with A-Q. Isn’t it rubbish to say that ISI did not have anything to do with OBL Inc. when ISI was running Taliban operations and Taliban was the host for Al-qaida. How come ISI stayed clean of Al-Qaida links is something that one has to wonder.

You are saying it so clearly that Pakistan was using Afghanistan for its own purpose against India. Was Pakistan making Afgh peaceful? No, only Pakistanis were peaceful and thought the rest of the world including neighbors are also peaceful.

@ It is unfortunate the Taliban’s there took advantage of Pakistan’s hospitality and allied with bad people.”
–Oh, just like that? So Pakistan was a host in a foreign nation-Afghanistan and Taliban which is from Afgh is your guest? —which logic you have been using? This is the reason Pakistan is out of that place now. In any case, it was Saudi money and Pak/Saudis/UAE support to Taliban that ran that terrorist govt. and everything moved with ISI permission at that time. Terrorist camps were shared by host of terrorist organizations including some which Pakistan was training against India. It took 2 nights airlifting to get all the ISI/Pak guys out from Afghanistan before USA started its anti-Taliban mission post-9/11. But Pakistani picked the terrorists too and have been hiding them somewhere, as Hillary Clinton directly stated.

So far you have been putting blame on Taliban (when it is convenient), USA, India, NATO and have been showing Pakistan as a victim. Now do one thing and ask what Pakistan’s role was in turning this region into hell? That’s where the reason of this instability lies.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

Casper: “In Pakistan buying alliance from some of the tribes is not difficult.So now there are two groups of Taliban, one who is not waging war but fighting with NATO forces in Afghanistan and 2nd who is sponsored by Western and Indian intelligence waging war in Pakistan.”

Those are some pretty heavy allegations. Would you care to list your sources so it can be determined that your claims are accurate? Somehow I doubt it.

By the way, even assuming that Taliban in Pakistan ARE sponsored by the CIA/Indian intelligence, wouldn’t that be all the more reason for the Pakistani Army to fight them? Based on your allegations your country’s army are doing the people of Pakistan a great service–fighting foreign-backed terrorists.

Posted by Eric | Report as abusive

Well Rajeev, I appreciate your input. You have changed the topic completely. You have the right to say what ever you feel. You talked about all those meetings in India have nothing to do with Afghanistan or Pakistan. I understand you are passionate Indian who believe that nothing planned in these meetings. I respect that but reality is far from what you believe. I don’t need to be there what happened in these meetings, there are different ways to find which I won’t go into detail.

2nd you said there are only 4 consulates offices just one example is Kandahar that you forgot to mention and there are 13 so called “Information Centers“. But each fake “Consulate” has “RAW DESK“, and each “Information center” has “Sub-sections” and “Desks”. In addition the Indian companies that are working in Afghanistan allow the Indian RAW agencies open access to the facilities and the offices. Just Kandhar is very much involve what is happening in Baluchistan Pakistan.You may need to update your information it is too old and may need to update from your foreign office.

3rd you talked about India is there just for trade benefits, just tell me what kind of industry is in Afghanistan. It is a part of game reaching to central Asian states, Afghanistan for their resources and specially creating problems for Pakistan that is the goal. There are more than 10000 Indian soldiers in Afghanistan even it is accepted by Indian government. Do you think they are there to protect just 4 Indian consulates or couple of Indian company offices?. You also talked about what Afghanistan got from Pakistan?,

It is their freedom from Soviet union and there is no greater blessing than freedom and please don’t tell me that nothing happened in Pakistan during Soviet period and how much they sacrificed.

By the way do you even know who these Talibans are? they are Afghan’s and the children of 5 million people who migrated to Pakistan. I have never said Taliban are good. They were different when they first entered into Afghanistan, but with the passage of time they got corrupted and alligned with A-Q.

Yes ISI may be in touch with some of the Taliban groups but ISI was never involved With A-Q activities. Some groups may be involve there but Pakistan’s intention was never to get involve with A-Q and for what so US, India and NATO forces can come to Afghanistan. This assertion is just rubbish.

Pakistan just wanted a peaceful neighbor in its back yard is case of any conflict. what do Pakistan get if Afghanistan is in ciaos. America, India and other countries in its back yard.

I don’t need to remind you how many problems India have with its neighbors starting from Pakistan, China, Sirilanka , Burma, Maldives and Nepal because of the current Government there. So please don’t tell us that Pakistan is the problem.

bye the way may I ask were you a pilot of one of the flights that took so called all the ISI agents from do you even know how far is Kabul from Lundikotal.I guess not.

Yes Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and UAE did provide support to Taliban, so don’t you think they are also involve in this conflict. That is what I tried to explain earlier, It is Taliban them selves to be blames because of their act and Pakistan don’t have much influence there. It was never their intention to support A-Q but just like I said there are many groups of Taliban involve. It will be silly to say that Pakistan helped Taliban just to have problems in its boundaries.

Regarding Hilary Clinton, she said Pakistan may have knowledge of some the people, but did she said Pakistan provided support to attack any western countries.Now even new statement came from Hilary that US is responsible to push A-Q into Pakistan. Yes Pakistan may have knowledge but not with the intention of providing support so these elements can attack Western countries but just like I said earlier their intention is to make sure they have influence in their back yard Just watch sooner or later there will be power vac um in Afghanistan and those will help during this period.

Now the main question arises what do Pakistan get from so called this hell in its back yard. To my knowledge

1-Thousands of lives lost including women, children and government officials
2-economy in ruin
4-lack of security
5- highest rate of bombing than any where in the world
6-social problems
and So on

That is what Pakistan got from Taliban and Afghanistan.
and to believe that only ordinary Taliban and Afghan’s have this ability to destabilize Pakistan, ya then you live in dreams.

Again international politics to understand is way beyond the reach of people like us. Yes there are problems but the reality is no one angel.

Posted by casper hughes | Report as abusive


You said 8 consulates and I said 4, the correct # is 5 including Kandhar, as you found out and I confirmed. But I was closer.

I do not gave to be a pilot to know the truth or know the distance (it is easy from google any way), but just be aware of the information from correct sources. And I am talking based on reliable sources–Ahmed Rashid–Pakistani journalist who knows the region like the back of his hand. He mentions in his book “Descent into Chaos” and I trust his sources. Hey, the airlifting was called “operation evil lift” by Americans when they learned what happened and by Pakistani generals “operation great escape”. Read up. Also read another one of his on Taliban to help you get back into little real world. I do not believe in cock and bull stories nor in excuses. Reasons yes.

@Yes Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and UAE did provide support to Taliban, so don’t you think they are also involve in this conflict>”
–Then why do I never hear you say even once that a Pakistani also messed it up upfront like Hillary is doing about US. Is pakistan sitting only to take credit like throwing soviets out. You are quick to point at other 2 friends Saudis and UAE and nothing on Pakistan!

@It will be silly to say that Pakistan helped Taliban just to have problems in its boundaries.”
–No. But Pakistanis were myopic and they still are. If they know the fallouts they will not do but they do not believe in monster you create biting back. It is clear to me, but not to you yet that pakistan has not changed. You will have to wait bit long before they spell it out for you that they still have not changed.

Who does not say it is not complex. US admits faults what is the problem with Pakistan.

India and Afghanistan is between the two of them and India is sitting with consent of the leaders—Abdullah or Karzai are both OK with India.

@Indian military. Indians need ITBP for the protection of its workers in Afghanistan from Taliban and ISI (reference to Kabul embassy bombing). So nothing surprising there. Chinese are in Africa with consent and Indians are in Afghanistan with consent not unwanted guests like Pakistan who created Taliban which decapitated people in soccer stadiums and which you will perhaps call law and order and peace to Afghans by a good govt.
@RAW desk in Afghanistan: Yes sure and I will be unhappy and rest all spy agencies will be shocked if RAW was absent in Afghanistan. Relevant question is what RAW is doing. Is it scheming to destroy someone or for intelligence information? ISI is in India without desk and RAW will be in Pakistan and that’s what human intelligence if for. As long as they do not blow innocents that is fair game.

Ever wondered why all Afghans hate Pakistan. Think about it.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive

To add,

@Again international politics to understand is way beyond the reach of people like us. Yes there are problems but the reality is no one angel.
– Posted by casper hughes

-True, everyone has blood on their hands but the degree varies. The difference is much like a pickpocket and a serial killer. There has to be a basket of positives.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive