Pakistan’s Waziristan fight tougher than Kashmir ?

November 10, 2009

The Pakistani Taliban are warning the Pakistani military that it faces a fight in Waziristan tougher than Kashmir where the Indian army has struggled to quell a 20-year armed revolt.

It must be a rather bitter irony for the Pakistani army to be dealt such a warning from an umbrella militant group, several of whose members it once nurtured to fight the Indian army in Kashmir.

War by a thousand cuts, the Pakistan strategic establishment said, referring to the strategy to bleed India’s much larger army and ensure parity. So militants were given material support to take on the Indian army which was then forced to throw in more and more troops in to the conflict zone, until there were almost – and to this day remain –  anything around 400,000 to 500,000 troops in the area.  Such a large military presence by itself deepens the people’s alienation and perpetuates the insurgency.

Is it going to be the same for the Pakistani army as Pakistan Taliban spokesman  Azam Tariq told Reuters on Tuesday just as suspected militants carried out the third attack near the frontier city of Peshawar in as many days ?

Waziristan as Kashmir does seem a stretch. One, the Pakistani Taliban don’t have the cross border backing that the militants operating in Kashmir had, beginning with helping them cross over, to training, to  giving them arms and then pushing them back across the Kashmir frontier. Leave alone state support, it’s not even certain that their brothers-in-arms, the Afghan Taliban, are backing them to the hilt in what must be their toughest battle yet since they turned against the Pakistani state.

For what it’s worth an Afghan  Taliban commander on Tuesday distanced himself from the Pakistani Taliban, saying it didn’t support targeting innocent people.  The Afghan Taliban’s target were only the foreign forces in Afghanistan, Afghan Taliban commander Abdul Mannan alias Mullah Toor told Pakistan’s GEO TV.

Two, the Pakistani army has deployed about 30,000 troops in the South Waziristan operation, a drop for an army with a size of over 520,000 troops.  The Taliban will have to do much more to draw the Pakistani army deeper into their lair and in  greater numbers before it can really begin to bleed them.

Third, there doesn’t seem to be any people’s support for the Taliban,  at least not in the open and not in the sense that the Indian army faces in Kashmir.

In such circumstances, can the Pakistani Taliban really go the distance, fight a 20-year war? Perhaps they will target Pakistan’s cities and towns to weaken the state’s resolve as they have done in the run-up and aftermath of the offensive.

{Reuters picture of people fleeing south Waziristan]

Comments

If ISI was the villain as the Indians claim, why would the terrorists attack its head quarters?
-Posted by Mohammad Anjum

Might it not have something to do with ISI telling the US which villages to drone and the Army attacking the Taliban? If they were brazen enough to attack Rawalpindi, what makes you think the Taliban would think twice about attacking an office in Peshawar?

Posted by Keith | Report as abusive
 

Pakistani controllers behind Fort hood shootings, that killed 13 brave American Heros!

Fort Hood shooting suspect sent money to Pakistan, Texas congressman says
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/ dws/news/texassouthwest/stories/DN-charg es_13ent.ART.State.Edition2.4b4cdc1.html

Posted by Aamir | Report as abusive
 

I MUST have touched some nerves, definetly when I said Khalistan movement might NOT had the stomach but we Kashmiris do.

Firstly that is a FACT! When I went to the UK and toured some universties I seen a lot of young sikhs wearing the tops with Khalistan Lions. It made me laugh what Khalistan? The movement tat got buried in their holiest shrines…I dont mean no disrespect at all and I do agree that sikhs are very kind hearted and so on as I have few friends too.

I am sorry I dont belive Sikhs are different in Pakistan to India, how can they be when most of them moved from Lahore. What makes them different the one wanted to stay is Sikhs they did. As the family that got affected in Swat (Sikh family) it was locals that protected them yes at points they were harassed by the taliban fanatics but than so are the muslims.

Its NOT about religion, its about Kashmiris having their own homeland as they did before indian/pakis had theirs. So called puppet mahraja sign some paper firstly he did ot represent the majorty/ or respected their eishes he knew he was going to lose to why NOt just sign it.

If UN resoulution snake is buried, in Delhi I gather but not in the Kashmir valley? Anyway UN only approves occupation/agression/Injustice if it did not and was so functional we would have seen end to Palestinan sufferening, Kashmir occupation, Chechnya blood shed and dont forgot the countless graves still being found in Kosovo at the dorr step of europe. You preach human rights and democracies but dont practive one inch of it. Asd proven lock up all sepratist leaders in kashmir just allow the one that want to be delhi pupets. So go to hell with them, India can NOT buy Kashmiris hearts with money even though thats what most Indian are wishing. Because they are NOT for sale and we will let the 70,000 sacrifices just go down the drain…

Posted by Majid | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan Army, the other name of LeT

Brigitte, a Frenchman originally from France’s Caribbean department of Guadeloupe, had gone to Pakistan shortly after Sept. 11 to try to reach Afghanistan. Unable to make it, he had been sent to a Lashkar centre outside Lahore. A man named Sajid Mir became his handler.

“He quickly understood that Sajid belonged to the regular Pakistan army,” wrote Bruguiere.

During his 2-1/2 month stay at the camp, Bruguiere says, Brigitte realised the instructors were soldiers on detachment. Military supplies were dropped by army helicopters.

Brigitte said he and other foreigners were forced four times to leave the camp and move further up into the hills to avoid being caught by CIA officers.

They were believed to be checking if Pakistan had kept to a deal under which the Americans turned a blind eye to Lashkar camps in Punjab provided no foreigners were trained there.

http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCri sis/idUSLC383495

Posted by Sameer | Report as abusive
 

The tale of two missing Baloch

* Marri’s brother says no police station willing to register case of his brother’s disappearance due to intelligence agencies’ involvement
* Dr Din’s brother says court keeps on giving new dates

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp  ?page=2009\11\13\story_13-11-2009_pg7_4 8

Posted by Ramin | Report as abusive
 

‘The whole of Pakistan is anti-American’
A Britisher’s View

“The problem is that we want American dollars but we, as a country, hate Americans,” a former ambassador from the Islamic Republic of Pakistan to Washington told the McClatchy Washington Bureau in an interview

No surprise there, given Pakistan’s double face, beggar’s hand and thirst for revenge.

http://www.yournabe.com/articles/2009/11  /12/brooklyn_graphic/news/columnists/br ooklyn_graphic_newscolumnistsbotamrh1112 2009.txt

Posted by NOrman | Report as abusive
 

Soon those who are behind these cowardly actions will be made to pay dearly.

- Posted by Mohammad Anjum
===

When you peddle stories like that you should think about how much people will buy them. Credibility of pakistan army, ISI has sunk to new lows lately.

More credible explanation is ISI trained and nurtured terrorists to be used against India and Afghanistan. Now they are biting the hands that fed them.

 

Pakistan-China-N Korea: Axis of Evils!!!

A nuclear power’s act of proliferation
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con tent/article/2009/11/12/AR2009111211060. html?hpid=topnews

Posted by Randy | Report as abusive
 

A nation of free loaders …

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/83 38407.stm

Posted by Ahis | Report as abusive
 

@Our Peshawar ISI head quarters has been hit just now. If ISI was the villain as the Indians claim, why would the terrorists attack its head quarters?”
– Posted by Mohammad Anjum

–For the same reasons they targeted GHQ and Police academy.

“It is clear to us Pakistanis who is really behind these attacks.”
–Who?

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 
 

“Our Peshawar ISI head quarters has been hit just now. If ISI was the villain as the Indians claim, why would the terrorists attack its head quarters?”

:) , Don’t know where to start. :)
okay you are funny and you know that!

It happened in front of ISI building at a checkpost outside, most probably done by TTP and happend at 6:40 AM.

Do ISI personnel reach office that early Anjum? Or are they so much swamped with “work” that they sleep in offices overnight?

The smart foreign suicide bomber of smart RAW/Mossad/CIA just woke up, brushed his teeth and reached the office so that he may kill some high profile ISI officers at 6:40 AM? Won’t that be stupid on these powerful external agencies’ part?

Please find out and share with other about who exactly died in that blast. Most likely some under-paid policemen or low-profile civilians whose lives are of no value in the Land of the Pure. To me it seems that only ISI can gain (by posing as victim) by such a “non-lethal” blast.

Posted by Seth | Report as abusive
 

i saw the interview with musharraf on cnn.
paks army and isi claims a strategic depth by having partnership with all the terror outfits in afpak.

watch from minute 17.00 part of the interview. ISI has control over all terrorist organizations: Musharraf

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/podcast s/fareedzakaria/site/2009/11/08/gps.podc ast.11.08.cnn

 

Our Peshawar ISI head quarters has been hit just now. If ISI was the villain as the Indians claim, why would the terrorists attack its head quarters?
- Posted by Mohammad Anjum

Why does it surprise you? Do you think terrorists are battery powered pre-programmed robots that can only go north or east?

Why is it troubling you so much now? You didn’t show much concern when ISI trained Haqqanis or LeT are doing same in Afganistan or India!!!

ISI has been investing in these terrorists for last 30 years to do exactly what they are doing now! Which part is unexpected?

Posted by Sammy | Report as abusive
 

“Our Peshawar ISI head quarters has been hit just now. If ISI was the villain as the Indians claim, why would the terrorists attack its head quarters? It is clear to us Pakistanis who is really behind these attacks. The plan is to create enough chaos inside Pakistan and cause confusion. And then the plan would be to use that confusion to convince the US and its allies in going after our nukes. But beware! Pakistan will not tolerate this kind of clever activities. Soon those who are behind these cowardly actions will be made to pay dearly.
- Posted by Mohammad Anjum ”

–>First of all Anjum, let me say the loss of Pakistani life was regretful and horrible, those innocent people were taken by cowards.

The terrorists are it seems, attacking any government agency that they can, it seems some of them are getting desperate.

Please be careful to point fingers to outside sources, as often it happens, you Pakistani’s do this and proof of Pakistan’s own terrorists are always the culprit, ie MUMBAI and others. These Taliban types take pride on these sort of attacks and they might get more offended if you blame outside sources.

It seems that home grown militants have declared suicide Jihad on Pakistan.

Who ever did those cowardly attacks on civilian soft targets, should be punished. I will hedge that it was done by the homegrown Taliban for retribution against State agencies for the latest offensives. Time will show that.

Anjum, it is time that you revisited your own emotional state and ask yourself, who would really do this, in light of the recent offensives. Let’s leave it at that.

These types of cowardly attacks have all been claimed by Mehsud in recent history.

Posted by GW | Report as abusive
 

@Anjum,

If you are worried about Pakistan’s security. Kindly send Gen. Abbas and Gen. Kiyani a letter and and ask them to re-allocate Kashmiri soldier assets to the cities, to make them safer for the citizens. Your army is risking Pakistani lives by leaving cities weak and its citizens exposed. The ARmy has a duty to beef up security, train the police and army in Urban Counter INsurgency warfare.

That is a minimums step that your precious army can do for its citizens, if it cares for them. I doubt the Pak Army sincerely cares about your security, they still are keeping hundreds of thousands of soldiers pointed at India, while the Taliban takes free shots in your cities and go unchallenged.

Times are dangerous Anjum, please conduct yourself carefully.

If you don’t know who is doing the terrorist attacks, perhaps you should seek out Hakimullah Mehsud and ask him. I am sure, he will stake claim at these attacks.

Posted by GW | Report as abusive
 

Sammy you said:

“ISI has been investing in these terrorists for last 30 years to do exactly what they are doing now! Which part is unexpected?”

–>It is funny how bad Karma comes back to those who propagate it. Perhaps Hindus have figured out a thing or two in 6,000 years of existence.

I still cannot believe Paks indulge in conspiracy stories, while their country falls apart.

India has to do nothing, Pakistani’s are doing it to themselves and not willing to leverag their government for real action.

If India had any hand in thing here, Pak and India would have gone to war a long time ago, Pak ARmy and ISI know that, Mr. Anjum. You should take their inaction against India, as a silent que that India is not involved.

Posted by GW | Report as abusive
 

Our Peshawar ISI head quarters has been hit just now. If ISI was the villain as the Indians claim, why would the terrorists attack its head quarters?
- Posted by Mohammad Anjum

It is the ISI bombing it’s own empty building to ask for more US aid and sympathy. I am sure ISI will use this event to ward off forceful US officials. Gen. Jones was supposed to arrive at Islamabad with the new Pak to-do list.

Why would a half-brained terrorist bomb an empty building. Those 10-20 people dead are all poor civilians on road or sleeping on footpath. How many ISI officials are dead?

ISI is going a new everyday!

Posted by Robin | Report as abusive
 

It is definitely a new low for ISI!

ISI is bombing it’s own empty building and killing poor Pakistanis to get more US aid and sympathy!

Posted by Robin | Report as abusive
 

State of Denial!

http://video.nytimes.com/video/2009/11/1 1/world/1247465633296/tuning-out-the-tal iban.html?ref=world
- Posted by Ramin

Wow. Thanks for that. Now we can see where guys like Umair and Mohammad Anjum get their views. Too bad they don’t listen to guys like Nadeem Paracha instead of the cowardly musicians.

Ironically, the Taliban would kill off those musicians even if they were speaking out against the US in a heartbeat if they got the chance. Or it would take away their livelihood by banning music.

Maybe Pakistanis will come to their senses some day and speak out against these extremists who are destroying their country. Inshallah.

Posted by Keith | Report as abusive
 

@soman,it would too simple to believe fareed zakari(not zakaria) as pronounced by him and musharaf, both of whom are of indian origin and are on the payroll of cnn.they are foreign to your culture and do not normally mean what they say.isi is no different than cia, m5 etc.they all have their stregnths and weaknesses.
- Posted by rex minor

Another tin-foil wearer. So Musharraf’s view does not count because he was Indian born and maybe got a stipend for an interview? wow. How racist are you?

As for Fareed Zakaria (we spell his name the way he spells it), he remains one of the most respected journalists in the world. If anything, he’s way too sensitive when interviewing South Asian guests. He never asked Musharraf any tough follow up questions despite some obvious fumbling by Musharraf.

I’ll take Fareed Zakaria’s apparent bias over ignorant racism anytime.

Posted by Keith | Report as abusive
 

@ Anjum: “Our Peshawar ISI head quarters has been hit just now. If ISI was the villain as the Indians claim, why would the terrorists attack its head quarters?”

How about this for a theory: The ISI probably staged the whole thing in order victimize itself & gain the support of the US & west?
You probably raised your eyebrows & shook your head after reading that. Well, now you know how the rest of us feel when you & others drop in your tin foil hat conspiracy theories.

@ GW: “Sikhs in Pakistan and India are a culturally and politically a different breed, despite the food language and religion”

GW, there are hardly any sikhs left in Pakistan. According to the US Dept of State, Pakistan’s sikh population was app. 20,000. Most of those sikhs lived in the NWFP. They speak Pashto & consider themselves Pashtun. Besides that, there are a few very small sikh communities living in Punjab in places where the shrines are located. With what’s happened in the NWFP in the last couple of years, I would assume that quite a few of the sikhs living there would’ve migrated to India, Afghanistan or other countries.

@Ramin: “State of Denial!
http://video.nytimes.com/video/2009/11/1 1/world/1247465633296/tuning-out-the-tal iban.html?ref=world

Thanks for the video link. Explains why the young educated Pakistanis are also living in denial.

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive
 

Mr. Robin you wrote: “ISI is bombing it’s own empty building and killing poor Pakistanis to get more US aid and sympathy!”

ISI acts on the interests of Pakistan. It has the most patriotic Pakistanis in service. Without the ISI, we could not have kept India and other enemies of Pakistan in check. Just like your RAW acts in the interests of India, the ISI works in the interests of Pakistan.

If you believe in the idea that the ISI blew its own offices up in order to win sympathy, then you must be able to believe the idea that the Mossad and the CIA staged the 9/11 attacks through their Arab agents staying at Germany. That might have helped the US return to this region. War on terrorism is actually a war for Central Asian Oil pipe line. Someone asked why the US is still sympathetic to Pakistan. That is because Pakistan is sitting directly in the path of that oil pipe line. That is why it confined its attacks to Afghanistan. Israel is definitely concerned about our nukes. That is another reason why the US is sitting in Afghanistan, creating the chaos inside Pakistan. At some point they will use the excuse of extremism to take our nukes out. ISI building attack was staged to show that our nuclear installations are not safe either. They are trying to weaken our military by engaging it in wars with our own brethren. Divide and rule has been the policy of the Westerners for a long time. So they are trying to cut inroads into our nation by destabilizing the region, setting up camp in Afghanistan and now they are rattling Pakistan. We know what’s going on. We trusted them and they are stabbing us on our backs. The US had no issues with the Taliban before. They have no issues with them even now. So we are wondering why they have to have such an army presence and an occupation of Afghanistan with a corrupt puppet in charge. If they wanted Bin Laden, they would have taken him out long ago. But they are beating around the bush for some reason for the past 8 years. Look at what happened to Pakistan in the meantime. Mossad is all over it, along with CIA. They are using the RAW agent Mehsud by supplying arms from the Indian consulates inside Afghanistan. No one wants to hear our words. Our PM did give the dossier to Mr. Singh. But people only want to hear what they want to hear.

We are in a difficult time. We know that. But we will emerge victors. We will clear all the RAW/Mossad/CIA agents from our region. We will hold our ground until the Americans tire and leave. Then we will recover. That must send shivers down the spines of some people.

 

@@soman,it would too simple to believe fareed zakari(not zakaria) as pronounced by him and musharaf, both of whom are of indian origin and are on the payroll of cnn.they are foreign to your culture and do not normally mean what they say…..”
- Posted by rex minor

–A comment here on F.Zakaria. His mother is an employee in Taj Hotel that terrorists attacked. She was not there when this happened or something like that. His brothers apts/condos are near the action site. He spent sometime on GPS on this. That’s how I know. He is not an outsider here and is perhaps more insider than many of Indian commenters abroad since he has expertise to backup. Somehow I hate this word “Payroll”. He is an employee of CNN–so natural. No idea about Mushy/payroll stuff.

Posted by rajeev | Report as abusive
 

dear mohd anjum, pakistan is keeping its peoples and country integrated by pointing fingures on india for what ever happened in pakistan. otherwise pakistan could have broken. because pakistan is the muslim country of different ethinic people. now they can come out of the present crises only if they create war like situation with india. your ISI is working in that end. that is the reason mumbai was attaked. now they are already trying to portray in your minds that india is backing taliban. every one knows who created taliban and at whose behest and for what purpose. why this cannot be the reason for the isi to bomb its empty buildings

Posted by venkat | Report as abusive
 

Anjum, if we are to believe that half a dozen foreign intelligence agencies are somehow co-ordinating the downfall of Pakistan (because that will make it safer for the pipeline they want?) then it’s entirely acceptable to think that the ISI blew up its own building. Conspiracy theories flow both ways. How else do you explain an attack at 0640 when nobody was at work?

Posted by Keith | Report as abusive
 

It’s the world against Pakistan I say!

And we’ll start by blowing up empty office buildings, very early in the morning to minimize casualties. ‘Cause we’re civilized terrorists!

Posted by Keith | Report as abusive
 

- Posted by Mohammad Anjum

What you are saying is nothing new! Since thousands of years, dictators/army always justify serious external threat to grab and hold on to power.

Is India invading Nepal, Sri lanka, Burma, Bangladesh everyday? India didn’t even cross the border in to Bangladesh when India knew all ULFA/ISI training camps across the border in Bangladesh. India didn’t even cross the border in Kargil war. In 1971 war, after winning the war, India returned all newly occupied Kashmir lands to Pakistan.

It is sad that ISI/Army just need to put RAW/CIA color ot TTP, Mehsuds to gain support of Pakistanis and justify appropriating 3/4th of Pakistan’s national budget. Mehsuds/TTP were not CIA/RAW agents when ISI/army were signing shady peace deals with them? Even two months back, TTP announced in press that it will fight along side army and against India if Pakistan goes to war with INdia. What does that tell you?

It is really sad that army/politicians have to lie to their people to get support! But these lying-cycle will never stop and each lie will do a bigger damage to Pakistan!

Posted by Sammy | Report as abusive
 

Dear Anjum,
The LeT, JuD camps in Punjab are also CIA/RAW creation. Can ISI/army clean up these camps and bring Hafiz Saeed in to justice. I am sure LeT, JuD are supported by CIA/RAW.

Posted by Robin | Report as abusive
 

ISI acts on the interests of Pakistan…the ISI works in the interests of Pakistan.
-Posted by Mohammad Anjum

So if it’s in the interests of Pakistan to blow up an ISI building and sacrifice 20 Pakistanis, to get the US be more sympathetic, apply less pressure, and give more aid, would the ISI do it?

After all, like you said they have to work for Pakistan’s interests first. Seems to me, Pakistan’s getting a lot of mileage from this attack. Hence, this attack is serving Pakistan’s interests. So then, do you agree that since the attack is serving Pakistan’s interests and the ISI works for Pakistan’s interests, that it’s possible the ISI did it?

Posted by Keith | Report as abusive
 

I’d recommend the following link to everyone, which is very rational and open minded. Pakistanis like Anjum should read this and change their mindset.

http://blog.dawn.com/2009/11/14/the-conv enient-curtain-of-myth/comment-page-1/#c omment-32733

 

Mr. Keith you write: “Conspiracy theories flow both ways. How else do you explain an attack at 0640 when nobody was at work?”

May be you should ask your friends at the CIA.

Most activities of the intelligence agencies are clandestine and one can only guess what could have been done by them. So they look like conspiracy theories.
CIA has the historic reputation of helping stage military coups, running secret wars, torture cells, making deals with drug lords to smuggle arms, assassinate people etc for American interests. They can even mislead their leaders into waging wars. George Bush sent his troops into Iraq based on CIA reports about WMDs.

All I am saying, and I have been saying all along is that ISI is no Red Cross. And so is the case with the CIA, Mossad, RAW, KGB or any other secret service across the globe. They have their own agenda and plans of operations which are not visible sometimes even to their own governments. I can only talk from Pakistan’s stand point. I know what spy agencies do. The current events in Pakistan look more like the CIA/RAW/Mossad collaboration. The TTP does look like being controlled by these agencies. And it is for a purpose.

 

Pakistan pointing their finger at someone else for their own shortcomings? What a surprise?

Maybe other nations would take Pakistan more serious if it didn’t go around the world with a begging cup asking for money all the time.

Posted by Salas | Report as abusive
 

CIA, Mossad, RAW, KGB
-posted by Mohammad Anjum

The list keeps growing. Now we add agencies that don’t even exist anymore. KGB? Really?

Posted by Keith | Report as abusive
 

Mr. Keith you write: “The list keeps growing. Now we add agencies that don’t even exist anymore. KGB? Really?”

Well, I was only mentioning the erstwhile KGB. We all know that it does not exist anymore. But when it existed, it was the CIA’s twin on the other side. KGB was dreaded everywhere. But somehow CIA was not, though both were equally sinister. And it was the CIA that trained the ISI during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. So do not blame the ISI. Blame the CIA for all ills.

 

Mohammad Anjum said (numbering mine):
“[...]
(1) If you believe in the idea that the ISI blew its own offices up in order to win sympathy, then you must be able to believe the idea that the Mossad and the CIA staged the 9/11 attacks through their Arab agents staying at Germany. That might have helped the US return to this region. War on terrorism is actually a war for Central Asian Oil pipe line.
(2) Someone asked why the US is still sympathetic to Pakistan. That is because Pakistan is sitting directly in the path of that oil pipe line. That is why it confined its attacks to Afghanistan.
(3) Israel is definitely concerned about our nukes. That is another reason why the US is sitting in Afghanistan, creating the chaos inside Pakistan. At some point they will use the excuse of extremism to take our nukes out. ISI building attack was staged to show that our nuclear installations are not safe either.
(4) They are trying to weaken our military by engaging it in wars with our own brethren.
[...]
(5) If they wanted Bin Laden, they would have taken him out long ago. But they are beating around the bush for some reason for the past 8 years.
[...]”

Arguing from a position of pure logic, the man has some points. None of us really knows what machinations governments and secret service agencies are up to, so one person’s conspiracy theory is as good as another’s.

While I cannot really comment on how true these are, I must say Mohammad Anjum has taken the time to articulate them quite well. It beats some of the incoherent rants I’ve read here on occasion.

If anyone has read George Friedman’s “The Next Hundred Years (A Forecast for the 21st Century)”, it is an extremely unsentimental analysis of what countries will likely do over the coming century. Many statements that would normally be dismissed as conspiracy theories have been backed up by detailed reasoning.

I guess all I can say is, I certainly hope all this is not true. Even if they are, Pakistanis can make things easier for themselves by being cooperative with other countries instead of adopting a war mindset. More powerful countries may then be incentivised to trade with Pakistan rather than manipulate them into giving up their resources, don’t you think?

Regards,
Ganesh

Posted by Ganesh Prasad | Report as abusive
 

Ganesh. What recks Anjum’s thesis is the inconvenient truth that those undertaking the attacks are Pakistanis. While I don’t accept his argument, let’s say it was true and outsiders were running this mess, does that give the Pakistanis an excuse not to fight the militants (guys like Anjum want peace deals with the Talibs)? What does it say about Pakistan that its citizens are so easily bought off? And what does it say about the ISI which so easily lost control of these groups? If its true that outsiders can meddle so easily, what does it say about the state of Pakistan’s unity and cohesion? I’d be seriously worried about imminent collapse, if Anjum’s thesis is correct. Thankfully, I don’t think he’s right.

Posted by Keith | Report as abusive
 

@Anjum,

CIA/RAW/Mosaid were not involved in the suicide attack on your building at 0640.

That early in the morning, there is almost no one there. If CIA or some other agency was going to do it, they would have gone for maximum body count and waiting until the building was full.

All this suggests that the ISI may have did this to themselves, just to play the victims or throw a smokescreen and divert scrutiny unto themselves.

Does my conspiracy sound ludicrous to any Pak bloggers here? Well, during Mumbai, many bloggers like Ali, Umair and some others strongly suggested that India did Mumbai to themselves.

It seems victimhood is a one way street. When the States or India suffers a 911 or a Mumbai, it is always the CIA, MOSSAID or RAW that supposedly commits these acts to “malign Pakistan or muslims”, but when Pakistan gets a terror attack, why can’t we, as Indians or westerners say that the ISI did it to Pakistani’s? Perhaps even rogue elements of the ISI? That seems much more plausible than the CIA doing it. The CIA/USA is giving billions USD to Pakistan to stablize it and on the other end trying to hurt the ISI?

Give me a break dear Pak friends and quit being dismissive about the Taliban Militant cancer tearing through your country, while you sit impotently, idle with fear and stew in static complacency to maintain the status quo.

Posted by GW | Report as abusive
 

We are in a difficult time. We know that. But we will emerge victors. We will clear all the RAW/Mossad/CIA agents from our region. We will hold our ground until the Americans tire and leave. Then we will recover. That must send shivers down the spines of some people.
-Posted by Mohammad Anjum

You are in difficult times and you will remain in difficult times. China is not going to come running to your rescue.

Where is your proof of RAW/Mossad/CIA agents in your region?

You are holding no ground because every week ther are fresh attacks from the Taliban you created (AND THAT IS A FACT).

How are you going to recover? Is Uncle Saudi going to open his wallet to give you aid?

Pakistan is already on a lifeline of IMF and US aid.

Everything you type is baseless and a pathetic attempt to appear tough in the face of your own problems.

Posted by bulletfish | Report as abusive
 

@keith,
let us try to obtain the list of people who are on cia payroll? If you cannot wait the time when the info will no longer be classified ,it can be obtained at any time from the retired cia agents. There are quite a few to give you this info. Or perhaps just listen carefully to the presenters and the personalities they interview and you would be able to rwealise the people who are willingly or unwillingly on the payroll of CIA. Instead of calling people racists that you do not know or talaban the terrorists (even hillary clinton says that there are good talabans and there are bad talabans) why do’nt you stop the use of obscene language which George W introduced in the world and get a clearer and more civilised view of the world which is far away from your cold and very much isolated land. You do not always have to think loudly and write without any deliberation. Your sentence “we spell his name the way he spells it” explains everything. Have a nice day.

Posted by rex minor | Report as abusive
 

Rex Minor,

It’s not Dubya language to call a spade a spade. If someone wants to use language that hints at their racial superiority or suggests that the value of my opinion should be based on my race, religion, nationality, I will call them out for the racism they are exhibiting. Do you think I should value what you say based on where you are from, your skin colour or which religious building you pray in?

Anyway, do feel free to defend them if that’s your thing.

Posted by Keith | Report as abusive
 

keith,
It is important for me to know the background of the people,if at all it is possible, simply to understand them. This is in no way intended to evaluate their statements. For me chromosols do give a certain indication but this will not prejudice my opinion of the person. Every one of us has a different upbringing, culture, family traditions etc. etc.And I am sure if you were to know my background you would not look at the hints to label me. In fact I already see you as a straight forward guy who because of his background appears to be very jumpy in reaching a conclusion. I wish that we exchange views on the subject and learn during the process but not throw labels at each other. Thank you.

Posted by rex minor | Report as abusive
 

(1) The numbers thrown around by Pakistanis of 500,000 Indian troops in Kashmir are very misleading. Kashmir borders both Pakistan and China with borders disputed. Most of the Army is deployed to defend the borders, not fight the Jehadis. As the Kargil War in 1999 illustrated, even these 500K soldiers are not enough to prevent a war.

(2) The modus operandi of the Indian Army in Kashmir is very different from the Pakistani Army. The Indian Army goes out of the way to minimize civilian casualties. Gunbattles with the Jehadis often last multiple days, as the Army tries to wear them out. Often these leads to officer casualties. The Indian Army does not use armor, artillery or air-power in Kashmir. OTOH, the Pakistani Forces have used F-16s, artillery, and helicopter gunships to fight their own people. There are numerous stories of massive civilian casualties in these attacks. Often the relatives of suspected Taleban sympathizers are murdered and their houses blown up to send a message. As a result there have been hundreds of thousands of civilians who fled the battle-zone (known as Internally Displaced People).
See this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GErBdwhj Z4

Unfortunately these gross human rights violations by the Pakistani Army are not talked about by the Pakistani or the Western Press because it is supposedly for a good cause. The same group would not spare any opportunity to malign the Indian Armed Forces while not shedding any tears for the Kashmiri Pundits who have been ethnically cleansed from their own homes.

Posted by Victor | Report as abusive
 

In fact I already see you as a straight forward guy who because of his background appears to be very jumpy in reaching a conclusion.
- Posted by rex minor

I am generally a nice guy. But I don’t suffer racists very easily.

I see no need to bring my background into this. That you say it is relevant is worrisome. How would you evaluate my comment is I was white? And what you think of my comments if I was black? Would your opinion be different if I was Hindu or if I was Muslim?

If you want to understand me, read my comments. They are straightforward enough. Where I am from, the colour of my skin or which god I pray to is not relevant on an internet forum. I am not out to date your sister. We are merely discussing politics here.

Posted by Keith | Report as abusive
 

Really great blog and here lot of information about our country, thanks for information.

 

Post Your Comment

We welcome comments that advance the story through relevant opinion, anecdotes, links and data. If you see a comment that you believe is irrelevant or inappropriate, you can flag it to our editors by using the report abuse links. Views expressed in the comments do not represent those of Reuters. For more information on our comment policy, see http://blogs.reuters.com/fulldisclosure/2010/09/27/toward-a-more-thoughtful-conversation-on-stories/
  •