Comments on: Attack on the CIA in Afghanistan raises jitters in Pakistan http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/01/05/attack-on-the-cia-in-afghanistan-raises-jitters-in-pakistan/ Perspectives on Pakistan Thu, 01 Oct 2015 19:31:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: jackdanielsesq http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/01/05/attack-on-the-cia-in-afghanistan-raises-jitters-in-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-54175 Mon, 20 Oct 2014 05:44:10 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=4479#comment-54175 US Feds are morons – Bush41 boxed Saddam, Iran is nuclear, Iraq a wreck.

ME needs strongmen to keep control – not ignorant Feds, military stupidity

US Feds created 9/11 + Boston + TBTF et al + owe Americans $18Trillion

We are not capable of protecting ourselves, act like drunken sailors offshore

We now have the prince of darkness who is hellbent on wrecking America

All 535 + ICIC + Fed Bank + Wall St should be in jail, right next to Bernie

Jean-Pierre – keep that guillotine blade keen – we have much work to do

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By: pakistan http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/01/05/attack-on-the-cia-in-afghanistan-raises-jitters-in-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-27527 Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:35:50 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=4479#comment-27527 @RajeevK
Sorry, i was out of town, therefore could not read your rude comments and reply. You are certainly not a Pashtoon, otherwise you would not bring sisters in the act, just shows how much respect you have for women in your culture or are you from the race who use to burn the wife along with the husband when he died. You have a twisted mind, a very limited education and on top of that you are neither familiar with the culture and traditions of Pashtoons. I do not read perverted and ill informed views of Journalists. You have seen very little of Pashtoons or talabans as you prefer to call them, until now they have just been warming up, sooner or later the onslaught of Pashtoons is going to begin, from Swat to Waziristan and beyond, in the beginning they give the impression that they are very few, isolated insurgents and then they start the offensive. That has been their history and this is what they are going to do and then God help those who stand in their way, the foreigners, the Pakistanis, the northern alliance Tajiks, Uzbeks and Hazara ethnic groups in Afghanistan. They normally do not show mercy for the loosers. Why do’nt you read Arthur Swinson book on North-West Frontier 1839-1947, if you have the time?
PS Pashtoons do not negotiate or recocile their differences. They accept force and no people of the world in history have ever been able to demonstrate their superiority over them. In the last century the kashmiris had a small taste but in the 21st century they are to break loose of their selfimposed bunkers and I should be very eager to learn about the powerful force which is going to stop them!!! Enjoy the good dayHave a nice day.

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By: RajeevK http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/01/05/attack-on-the-cia-in-afghanistan-raises-jitters-in-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-27346 Sun, 17 Jan 2010 00:09:35 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=4479#comment-27346 Rexminor:

I was telling you politely rather than saying that do not worry about my education system since “I am not going to date your sister”. You have heard that before from someone; so nothing “jumpy” here just responded. If you cannot handle, do not throw around unnecessary stuff.

Back to topic:
@Like Mullah Omar, many other world leaders including the Americans and the Pakistanis supported this wrong guest and were directly involved in suppling the military equipment to force the Russians withdrawl from Afghanista. The UK also allowed many wrong guests in the country giving them asylums against the advice of their native Govts. and had difficulties with them.”
–Yes Mullah Omar’s one eye was lost in Russian mission. But are you expecting me to defend US or Brits for their support to Mujahideen or for that matter what matter others? No. However this does not make Talibans, represented by Mullah Omar and foreign terrorists any angels (even before 9/11). You will confuse yourself if you just see Taliban in context of anti-West insurgency. You can go back and have a look at the profile of Taliban govt and their contribution to Afghans and Afghanistan. It sounds easy to say that let them do what they want since it is their country. But one can say this only when one does not know what hell was let loose under Taliban regime.

At the beginning, Taliban mission was supported by even people like Karzai because that brought under control the blood bath after Russian withdrawal/American lack of further support. But one does not have to be a history Ph.D to know that subsequently Taliban mingled with foreign fighters and agents (ISI/PA) and got off the track who used Taliban for their global agendas and Taliban gained nothing in this game.

@I cannot share your views of separating talabans from Pashtoons, or vice a versa. It is not uncommon in any people to find good or bad among them. But why make a fuss about the Pashtoons. What business is this of foreigners to tell any other people how they have to perform.”
–I wonder why you do not share. I recommend you read Taliban and Descent into Chaos by Ahmed Rashid, journalist from Pakistan who knows the region well. Going by him, Taliban (and other fighters) should have been taken care of much before 9/11 happened. Afghanistan was a land of oppressed people with training camp of terrorists against the West and India. It was terroristan. Talibans did not have global plans but they have stupidly supported terrorists who are anti-West and supported PA/ISI against India.

Point is most of the countries/communities have extremists and terrorists. Mullah Omar’s Talibans have done enough to deserve this recognition that they are the extremists in Pushtoon. And extremists anywhere do not represent the true culture. Perhaps you do not know that when Taliban were thrown out of power after 9/11, common Afghan masses celebrated by men shaving off their beards, women coming out of the house and music loud. May be all this is insignificant to you and to you only the person with a gun is a Pushtoon.

@Hillary Clinton was the first american to say that there are good talabans and there are bad talabans. Mr Karzai started usung this language long before others did, since the reconciliation is the only way for peace for Afghanistan and the rest of the world.”
–Agreed, reconcilitation is the way. But what to do with those who do not agree with this reconciliation idea? May be Western forces should listen to these gentle souls and make an exit this Monday. You can draw a picture how Afghanistan will look after that. Taliban running a shadow govt will come out and start reflatenning the country, whatever is left.

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By: rexminor http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/01/05/attack-on-the-cia-in-afghanistan-raises-jitters-in-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-27344 Sat, 16 Jan 2010 21:21:28 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=4479#comment-27344 @RajeeK
Now please do’nt be jumpy! I was neither trying to intrude nor making any assumptions. I have given you my reasons for being allergic to labelling. Most not all people, educated within the anglo saxon system, consider other cultures perverted. You refer to specifics. I have no idea who the talabans were yesterday and whom do they represent today.All I know is that many like me in the world do not know who they are? All they know that they are bad, very bad. Hillary Clinton was the first american to say that there are good talabans and there are bad talabans. Mr Karzai started usung this language long before others did, since the reconciliation is the only way for peace for Afghanistan and the rest of the world.Like Mullah Omar, many other world leaders including the Americans and the Pakistanis supported this wrong guest and were directly involved in suppling the military equipment to force the Russians withdrawl from Afghanista. The UK also allowed many wrong guests in the country giving them asylums against the advice of their native Govts. and had difficulties with them.
I cannot share your views of separating talabans from Pashtoons, or vice a versa. It is not uncommon in any people to find good or bad among them. But why make afuss about the Pashtoons. What business is this of foreigners to tell any other people how they have to perform. The loya jirga or any other system of Govt. will have to be decided by the Afghan communities and not by foreign Govts. As an observer of History, I cannot believe that a Pashtoon would remain unconcerned when other Pashtoons are being killed on both sides of the border regardless of internal feudes among the various tribes. Regards,

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By: RajeevK http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/01/05/attack-on-the-cia-in-afghanistan-raises-jitters-in-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-27337 Fri, 15 Jan 2010 01:18:08 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=4479#comment-27337 Rexminor:

@I am sorry that you have a complete mis-conception of these people and their culture. It is not your fault, you are probably educated in the anglo saxon system. Those who not understand other’s culture usually termed them perverted.”

–Let us quit labeling each other as part of the argument. You write something and I respond and vice-versa. Do not judge people here. I might as well be a Pushtoon. You have no way of knowing that. Regarding education, I am product of St. Boris. Have not heard, or have you? It is a parallel system of which St.Xavier’s and St. Stephens are part of. Now ask me what is Boris. Boris is derived from Hindi/Punjabi word Bori–the sack which kids in villages take from their homes with their school bags and works as double—a seat for the whole day on the floor of the school in the village that has no funds to buy benches and as rain coat in monsoon. I think you will have a bit of idea how far off your assumptions are.

The traits of Pushtoons are quite known even to stereotypically ignorant Americans by now. But you picked up bad examples of Pushtoons to defend.

Go back to my previous post. Karzai is not a bad guy but he is not a good example for you to pick for an anti-West Pushtoon leader. Had he been, he would not be cheering for extra troops. Who knows future?

Also could you tell me why Taliban should not be called perverted, a word you got so hyper over. Perhaps you think they also represent Pushtoon culture. No they do not. These guys in collaboration with foreign fighters killed Pushtoon culture.
As Pushtoon tradition, Mullah Omar welcomed a wrong guest–OBL and his fighters and many other–all foreign to the region and least respect for the culture. This melting pot of Taliban et al killed tribal elders because Taliban was spreading its influence all over Afghanistan. To cut it short, there are unwritten rules obeyed by pushtoons and Taliban did not obey them. Perhaps you can tell me how a loya zirga can be held under Taliban rule.

I can read books for the generic stuff about Pushtoons tribes and culture. Here we are talking specifics.

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By: rexminor http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/01/05/attack-on-the-cia-in-afghanistan-raises-jitters-in-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-27317 Wed, 13 Jan 2010 03:04:20 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=4479#comment-27317 @RajeevK
I am sorry, the afghans do not have a national army. The Pashtoons are exempted from the conscription, the army you see has non-Pashtoonn conscripts and Pashtoons who volunteered to make some bucks. The Pashtoons are not loyal to anyone except their own tribal elders, the foreigners call them war lords.
The Pashtoons have nothing to do with the world problems. Mark my words, the americans and other foreign forces would be chased out of the country like rats and would receive at least the same treatment which the Russions and others before them received. For the Pashtoons any one not speaking their dialect is a foreigner. They have no-go areas like a curfew in a country. It is not possible for a popalzai(Karzai tribe) to walk into the ghilzai or barrackzai territory without permission from the tribal chiefs. Even the West realized this feature of the Afghan life and started calling Mr Karzai as the mayor of Kabul. I am sorry that you have a complete mis-conception of these people and their culture. It is not your fault, you are probably educated in the anglo saxon system. The Pashtoon culture has not changed in centuries, and it is not going to change, unless ofcourse one day they are going to break loose and spread across their borders, together with the turkish, middle eastern and central asian armies. In my opinion it is a bit early. This development is very likely in the middle of the century.
Those who not understand other’s culture usually termed them perverted. The anglo saxons have throughout in their history have regarded all other cultures of the world being perverted including that of the Indians, the Africans, the Australian aboriginies,the American indians and not to forget the cultures of the Europeans. They have left marks every where and are not ashamed to revisit some for the second time. Perhaps if you have the time to read Arthur Swinson’s book on North West Frontier 1839-1947. Gen. Maccrystal is probably reading that book too and following the strategy which his forefathers tried before.
In a pashtoon family, the brothers argue among themselves and even fight with each other, they argue with cousins and even kill each other, but against a foreigner sooner or later they are one and will confront them as a tribe, no longer as a family. People can label them as they like, good talabans and bad talabans, radicals, insurgents, you name it. This is nothing but a simple nonsense and a diversion. Why do’nt you visit the Pashtoons and speak with them in their language, they are a unique original specimen of the human specie, not corrupted in history. One does not have to like them nor accept their way of life. Have a nice day and take care.

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By: RajeevK http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/01/05/attack-on-the-cia-in-afghanistan-raises-jitters-in-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-27310 Tue, 12 Jan 2010 17:56:42 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=4479#comment-27310 Rexminor:

@ He is definitely going to make a break with the Americans and the Nato military.”
–Karzai has no other way than supporting the West to stay in Afghanistan at least until ANA can take tackle the Taliban radicals who will be itching to control Kabul after the West makes an exit. Right now is a bad time for them to withdraw. West is more careful about civilian casualties–Afghanistan in particular. They are going to stay here for a long time.

@But my prognosis still stands, the Pashtoon loyalty to their tribes is absolute and I can very well understand his disappointment with the new US administration. He is definitely going to make a break with the Americans and the Nato military. No one in his position can agree to the killings of Pashtoons on both sides of the border. Apart from taking cash( it is not considered a weakness but strength) if he shows any weakness against the military of US and Nato, he is likely to loose his supporters in Afghanistan. We shall know in coming months!!”
— Loyalty and revenge are well known traits of Pushtoon tribes. But the anti-West insurgency should not be attributed to the whole Pushtoon community. The reason being the Pushtoon insurgency is run by radical category of Pushtoons, such as Mullah Omar’s Taliban. Some Pushtoons in Taliban are helpless, who are forcibly recruited—not so much for hatred against the West. Afghanistan has already seen the Mullah Omar Pushtoon rule during Taliban regime, a time when Loya Zirga had no value since elders, whose word is final in Pushtoon tribes, had no say and those who tried were killed in hundreds. In Pushtoon tradition, the word of elders carries more weight than that of a Mullah, but Taliban reversed that hierarchy, placing perverted Mullah ideology on the top—-killing Pushtoon culture.

Also, Pushtoon warlords have been fighting since USSR times and before US entry after 9/11; so this thing has been going on there even before West arrived. Now all this Pushtoon insurgency is not originating from the Pushtoon tradition; it is terrorism catalyzed by foreign terrorists using Pushtoon suicide bombers. So the radical Pushtoon groups do not represent Pushtoon tradition. Afghans are more receptive to the West than Pakistanis. Oil or no oil war, the bad guys do exist and are a problem but force alone is not going to work here. West is more careful about civilian deaths in Afghanistan.

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By: RajeevK http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/01/05/attack-on-the-cia-in-afghanistan-raises-jitters-in-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-27291 Sun, 10 Jan 2010 23:25:27 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=4479#comment-27291 @No one must doubt the capability of Pakistan Air Force to shoot down US drones, besides the newly inducted squadron of F-16s in 2009 Pakistan has acquired AEW&C from Sweden along with Mid-air refueling tankers from Ukraine. This is in addition to the JF-17 jets of Chinese origin.”
–Umairpk

Umair: what are your thoughts on Farhat Taj’s article that drones are useful for killing militants and do not cause collateral damage and do not kill civilians.

http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/0 1/09/pakistan-in-defence-of-drones/

so what you and most on “this side of Indus River” say is a myth. Your suggestion above is counterproductive for pakistan and favors militants.

Thanks for the info about Pak jets and other stuff but Pak jets is waht gives the civilians in FATA the nightmares since they kill the civilians more that drones do acc to Farhat Taj.

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By: rexminor http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/01/05/attack-on-the-cia-in-afghanistan-raises-jitters-in-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-27282 Sat, 09 Jan 2010 16:53:13 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=4479#comment-27282 @Rajeevk
I am sorry if I got all mixed up. Many thanks for the detailed background of Mr Karzai. I thought some one with the name karzai did work as a consultant for the oil coy in the US where Dick Cheney was a deputy chairman. But this is of no importance, he is from the Pashtoon family, close to the former rulers,was accepted by the northern Alliance and the US outfit of George W and Khalizad etc. But my prognosis still stands, the Pashtoon loyalty to their tribes is absolute and I can very well understand his disappointment with the new US administration. He is definitely going to make a break with the Americans and the Nato military. No one in his position can agree to the killings of Pashtoons on both sides of the border. Apart from taking cash( it is not considered a weakness but strength) if he shows any weakness against the military of US and Nato, he is likely to loose his supporters in Afghanistan. We shall know in coming months!! Again many thanks for correcting me. The comments of the Realgame are also valid and this would be a real source of income for the country to improve Afghan’s living standard. It breaks my heart when I see young Afghans stranded on the shores of the English channel hoping to get into the UK for work, since the British propaganda tells them in Kabul that the British Govt. loves them and want to improve their livelihood.

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By: RajeevK http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/01/05/attack-on-the-cia-in-afghanistan-raises-jitters-in-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-27273 Fri, 08 Jan 2010 20:49:45 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=4479#comment-27273 Rexminor:

In my knowledge, Hamid Karzai was 16yr old in 1973 until when Zahir Shah was in power. When Zahir Shah was away to Europe (1973), Muhammad Daoud staged a coup and Afghanistan became a republic under Daoud’s presidency. Zahir Shah remained outside Afghanistan and only after Taliban was ousted and US started WOT did he come for a visit during Karzai govt ceremony in 2002. Yes, Karzai’s dad was in politics in 60s and was killed by Taliban.

@ He later went to the US and worked in the oil comcern, directly under Dick Cheney, prior to George W becoming the President of the US.”
–It will be hard to find anything credible that says he really went to US and really worked under Cheney. At max are the highly controversial reports that he and US Amabassador to Afghanistan (Zalmay Khalilzad) were consultants for Unocal. I am not sure why that would be a problem if at all that was true—does that make him a bad guy. That way Karzai even supported Taliban in the beginning since they brought bloodshed under control but he turned anti-Taliban after Taliban’s the oppressive regime showed its true colors.

My image of Hamid Karzai him is different—no idea what he is up to now. I know that pre-9/11, he had the balls to face Taliban on his own by living in Afghanistan-Pakistan. His brothers went to US but not him. He was NOT helped by the USA or other Westerners when he was asking for support to target Taliban. Not many in Bush admn trusted Karzai and American stooges do not borrow money and he did. All these events do not support that there were any long term plans for Karzai to be the President of Afghanistan.

@ I would suggest that we take note of Therealgame comments about the American plans for laying the oil pipeline through Afghanistan to Baluchistan.
We are so much influenced by the propaganda of the west that we almost forgot about this aspect of the US objective.”
—It will be naïve not to buy this argument. However, linking Karzai-Unocal-WOT is bit of a stretch. In any case, it seems more of a Republican plan than American plan since America had enough reason to get into Afghanistan after USS Cole (A-Q attack that killed 17 sailors killed and many more injured); OBL was in Afghanistan at that time. Also Taliban blew up Buddha statues—the UN cultural heritage around that time. Do not forget Clinton coming to India for 5days around 2000 after Indian plane got hijacked to Kandahar—ISI hand. Taliban was asked to handover OBL and others to US. Either all these instances were not good enough for America getting into Afghanistan or may be democrats did not want war. But even in the short time Bush was in power before 9/11, he was doing nothing that suggested he had plans to target Taliban/A-Q (and Afghanistan). But Iraq war does go in favor of OIL war.

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