Comments on: On Taliban/AQ ties and the Afghanistan exit strategy http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/01/26/on-talibanaq-ties-and-the-afghanistan-exit-strategy/ Perspectives on Pakistan Thu, 01 Oct 2015 19:31:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: RajeevK http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/01/26/on-talibanaq-ties-and-the-afghanistan-exit-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-27518 Wed, 03 Feb 2010 00:24:37 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=4613#comment-27518 @@ Can India withstand a nuclear strike even though it would retain a second strike status”
-Umair

Umair: This is the precise reason the world knows Pakistan for—-the “irresponsible nuclear power” whose citizens take out nuclear sword so often and whose scientists mingled with terrorists and whose agencies proliferated the nuclear weapons like no body’s business. Why I do not see Indians threatening Pakistan with nuclear weapon?

Perhaps you do not know the answer to your own question: “Are you aware of the destructive nature of nuclear weapons?” It’s about time you find the answer to it. A dirty bomb is good enough and you are discussing these nukes.

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By: RajeevK http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/01/26/on-talibanaq-ties-and-the-afghanistan-exit-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-27516 Wed, 03 Feb 2010 00:04:44 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=4613#comment-27516 @@RajeevK — Nice Note mate
-Ommi:

You are welcome! Loosen up a bit. Do not wait for the suicide blasts to stop for a smile. We know terrorism for 30yrs and you for last few years only.

Begin to appreciate the satire. It too has a meaning which obviously you missed. Serious debate is with those where there is a chance. With Muhafiz no way; he is teenager with a conditioned mind and no ability to take the discussion forward. He came wrote few lines crap, got point by point response from generous Indians but Muhafiz took off without saying a word. Wonder why you did not applaud these Indians.

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By: G-W http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/01/26/on-talibanaq-ties-and-the-afghanistan-exit-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-27507 Mon, 01 Feb 2010 20:45:47 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=4613#comment-27507 @UmairPk,

Umair, you need to eat some humble pie my friend. Pakistan exists only because the dynastic banking masters allow it to be.

You really need to find your gratefulness and place upon those financiers. The IMF, the European Banks, the US. Fed and others who loan money.

All of your Army junk can be removed and scraped easily. The Financial syndicates also have limits on their patience for Pakistani excuses, duplicity and repayment.

With nearly non-existent stockpiles and starvation not far down the road, again, you should be eternally grateful to those financiers and the U.S. for allowing Pakistan to remain just living, barely. It is not implausible that Pakistan could always remain a mouse click and a signature away from descending into chaos, once the life support monies are removed.

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By: G-W http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/01/26/on-talibanaq-ties-and-the-afghanistan-exit-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-27502 Mon, 01 Feb 2010 03:50:55 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=4613#comment-27502 @kEiThZ

You hit the nail on the head. India can implode Pakistan without any real military effort. India just has to keep upgrading its military and not before long, within time, people in Pakistan will be starving and there will be civil strife as people haggle and fight over food and water, while Pak Army keeps upgrading its military with regional grade Army toys.

The Army types and their families living in those gated ghettos in Pindi and Islamabad may want to build their security fences higher, and get bullet proof glass, in those tough times, the “Have Nots” like to break-in for for food and terrorism will continue to spiral out of control.

Security in Pak will begin to deteriorate out of control, as the corrupt and weak police and Pak Army neither are trained in Urban Warfare or Urban insurgencies.

No politicians with the exception of Mr. 10% have the courage to speak out against all the Taliban, the Islamic Extremists and those that cavort with unemployed nutjob Wahhabists, Deobandi and Salafi’s. That is why Pakistan is so screwed, no politician, nor citizen groups have the guts to speak out directly and bluntly, they just all seem to “tippy toe” and play footsie, and lack political will to deal with home grown terrorism.

My prediction is that Pakistan will completely collapse within a decade as they are too busy fighting these low level wars against India in Afghanistan and Kashmir.

Pakistani Army is bleeding Pakistani’s dry and through these proxy wars, while avg Pakistani’s starve. Things are not all that far away there from running down a cliff.

With the exception of cotton t-shirts, masalas spice packages and cricket, nothing truly productive or redeeming has come from Pakistan in 60 years. It is not implausible that the Pakistani Republic will disintegrate into the major ethnic regions, as aid from other countries dwindles. Pakistan may need to change its name to “Punjabistan” Balochis and Pathans and others all want their autonomy and are tired of being oppressed.

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By: Umairpk http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/01/26/on-talibanaq-ties-and-the-afghanistan-exit-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-27496 Sun, 31 Jan 2010 17:01:14 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=4613#comment-27496 kEiThZ:

Long time no see my friend, welcome back to the blog. I have some good news. The tourist resorts are luring people back to Swat and South Waziristan has been clenaned up by Pakistan Army. Didint i tell you Pakistan Army campaigns will be successful, and yes they are. Suicide bombings have reduced much and urban cities have seen some improvement in security. No doubt the challenges are there, but still Pakistan is not falling apart as you say or think.

” Actually, that’s pretty close to reality today. Hence the new screening requirements for Pakistanis travelling to the US. Just wait for the EU and maybe even the Gulf countries to follow suit. Pakistan’s isolation is only going to get worse. If events keep going in this direction, Pakistan is on its way to becoming another North Korea.”
– So what? If US doesnt allow or Canada doent allow Pakistanis in, its not that every other country will refuse. You believe me, there will still be countries in the world who will be willing to accept Pakistani students and ready to do business with Pakistan. So much for isolation, the worlds second largest muslim nation, Pakistan has a global diplomatic presence from Ottawa to Washington to London to Canberra to Pretoria and so on. Pakistan is a member of international community and will play its role in everything from counter-terrorism, peacekeeping, climate change, nuclear disarmamnet and so on.

Pakistan coming apart is your mere fantasy, with a bloody 2009 previous year it was the remarkable resilience and perseverence of Pakistanis that is over now. And Pakistan has entered 2010 with much more positivity. Pakistan Army has bluntly rebuff calls by US and NATO to move against Quetta Shura and Haqqani group. Every single official from Gen. McChrsytal to Adm. Mullen to Secretary Gates has been rebuffed by Pakistan. So much leverage on Pakistan for the US aid, Pakistan has suffered losses worth billions od dollars and thousands of soldiers martyred. Still this is not an Iraq or Afghanistan, Pakistan will not falter and fail.
Pakistan today is one of the biggest users of CNG powered cars, it had huge potential for investments in banking and telecom sectors, it has natural resources and skilled people, it has a strategic location and can be a transit point for central asian oil and gas reserves, Pakistan has strategic ports like Gwadar and transnational Karakoram highway which links it to China. Pakistan has the potential of economic growth and most of all its a democracy today where leaders are accountable and there is rule of law. The military is strong and it has a place in Muslim world being a nuclear power.
India has its own prominence, Pakistan itself is no ordinary country and its people have potential to overcome every challenge. So my message to you is same as always, not only Pakistan will not fall apart but also Pakistan will be able to overcome every challenge in becoming a prosperous and stable country.
I am not bothered with new screening for Pakistanis travelling to US, the Americans themselves are having hard time to obtain visas for even diplomatic staff. And also ISI is strictly monitoring the activities of American diplomats in Pakistan. There is surely a trust deficit here.

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By: Mortal1 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/01/26/on-talibanaq-ties-and-the-afghanistan-exit-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-27491 Sun, 31 Jan 2010 07:07:13 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=4613#comment-27491 @Umair: “Lets talk about reality here, Indian Army has a doctrine of cold start while in response Pakistan Army follows a doctrine of offensive defense. Which means a proactive defensive which is offensive in nature”

And what exactly is that ‘doctrine’ followed by the Pak army called, whereby it supports terrorism in India, Afghanistan, Iran, west etc? Do you have a name for that ‘doctrine’?

@ “Are you aware of the destructive nature of nuclear weapons? do you know how largescale destruction can be caused? Can India withstand a nuclear strike even though it would retain a second strike status”

I haven’t been on this blog for a while but I see that you’re still thumping your ‘nuclear’ chest. I thought you might’ve learned a thing or 2 but I guess not.

@”Do you need the Pakistani government to donate a couple of Crores for the Mumbai slums and your disease ridden poverty striken backward areas?”

That’s a really funny statement or maybe you suffer from selective amnesia. Lemme help you regain your memory. Google the following: ‘Kerry Lugar bill’, ‘Friends of Pakistan’ oops I mean ‘Friends of DEMOCRATIC Pakistan’, ‘IMF funded countries’, ‘Failed State Index’. You can start with these for now.

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By: kEiThZ http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/01/26/on-talibanaq-ties-and-the-afghanistan-exit-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-27490 Sun, 31 Jan 2010 04:01:33 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=4613#comment-27490 an India withstand a nuclear strike even though it would retain a second strike status. So you dont need to feel sorry for Pakistan, you better help yourselves as Indians. In any future military confrontation with India, Pakistan is more than capable to not only defend itself but also mount a beffiting response.- Umair

Obviously, GW was talking about the past…the pre-nuclear era. And he’s right. If India really, really wanted to destroy Pakistan today, they could simply start supporting the militants already active in Pakistan. It wouldn’t take much. And those nuclear weapons would be useless. Remember the payback Pakistan got for supporting Punjabi militants in India? It didn’t take the ISI long to cry “uncle” in the 80s. Today, it’d be far, far easier for RAW to break Pakistan.

You should be grateful that all those conspiracy theories about RAW running all over Pakistan are not true. If they were, you’d be in real trouble.

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By: kEiThZ http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/01/26/on-talibanaq-ties-and-the-afghanistan-exit-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-27489 Sun, 31 Jan 2010 03:50:46 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=4613#comment-27489 Muhafiz,

Go to Afghanistan. Stand at the top of a building and yell out, “I am Pakistani.” and see how the locals react.

Pakistanis and Afghanis are only friends in the minds of Pakistanis. Heck, when the Pashtoons inside Pakistan barely have any love for Pakistan, what makes you think the rest of them on the other side think that highly of your country?

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By: kEiThZ http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/01/26/on-talibanaq-ties-and-the-afghanistan-exit-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-27488 Sun, 31 Jan 2010 03:48:31 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=4613#comment-27488 Umair,

Undoubtedly India will have a tougher time in Afghanistan if and when NATO pulls out. But I wouldn’t be so confident or cocky about Pakistan’s future.

The aid Pakistan is surviving on is only coming because NATO is next door and Pakistan’s stability is in the strategic interest of the mission in Afghanistan. If the West leaves Afghanistan, you can bet nobody is going to care how many people starve in Pakistan or how many bombings there are in Karachi or Is’bad or Lahore. When the last American soldier leaves Afghanistan, so will the last CNN cameraman and that will be the last the world will hear about Pakistan, except for the odd news item of a terrorist or terror threat linked to Pakistan. That’s reality. Actually, that’s pretty close to reality today. Hence the new screening requirements for Pakistanis travelling to the US. Just wait for the EU and maybe even the Gulf countries to follow suit. Pakistan’s isolation is only going to get worse. If events keep going in this direction, Pakistan is on its way to becoming another North Korea.

If I were you, I’d be worried about the future of my country, instead of constantly worrying about how big your stick is compared to your neighbours. The world will engage India because they have to. Pakistan will fade into insignificance because Pakistanis have chosen that path. Nobody is going to be bothered with a country now known internationally more for exporting terror than anything else. Seriously, ask the common man on the street anywhere outside your country what Pakistan is known for and you’ll get a surprising answer. Hint: it won’t be nuclear weapons. And the answer will be the same in Muslim countries too.

When the Americans leave, there will be a few options. Most likely they won’t leave in 2011 in so much as they’ll draw down. They’ll leave a few thousand special forces and the Predators in place to keep whacking Al Qaeda. Drone attacks will continue in Pakistan. And so on. Or if they really leave, the US will decide that it’s had enough of Pakistan’s duplicity and cut off all aid. Despite your bravado and national pride, I am sure you know that this would be absolutely disastrous for a country that does not have a self-sustaining economy. Or maybe the Americans will keep making token aid payments as long as you hand over the odd AQ senior official. That’s the best case scenario. Either way that’s a bleak picture for Pakistan.

And that’s all about the Americans. Everyone else? As soon as the mission in Afghanistan is done, they’ll be home and Pakistan will be a distant irritant/memory. Trading with India will be their priority. Even for the Chinese, increasingly, they’d rather trade with India than worry about being dragged into some petty rivalry over a patch of Himalayan rocks (that’s really what the conflict looks like to the Chinese). They might keep Pakistan afloat. But there’s no way they’ll bankroll Pakistan to the extent the Americans did. This is why I am always amazed that Pakistanis will praise the Chinese yet complain incessantly about the Americans who have given more in a few years than the Chinese would in a lifetime.

As for the Indo-Pak contest, it’ll slowly peter out as Pakistan descends into chaos on its own. India doesn’t have to do anything militarily to Pakistan. Nor do they really need Afghanistan either. Pakistan is tearing itself apart on its own. You can blame India for your troubles in Balochistan and stick your head in the sand. But if and when the Indians are out of Afghanistan, that excuse will be exposed for what it is. And the abuse that the Balochis have taken is unlikely to dampen their distaste for the Pakistani federation. The same goes for the Pashtuns and increasingly the Sindhis and Kashmiris too. Pakistan is coming apart at the seams. It does not need Indian involvement to do that. And the best part of it is, that every Pakistani (like you) will keep blaming India right until the day Pakistan comes apart because you just can’t accept that your country’s own flawed policies have brought you to where you are today. Your delusions are no better than those Indians who blame Pakistan for each and every terror attack (and ignore all domestic issues).

And that’s what makes me upset. It is frustrating to watch a country tear itself apart. No group of people has done more to damage Pakistan than the Pakistanis of today. That’ll become patently evident when all the supports covering up Pakistani intransigence and incompetence are removed as international aid dries up.

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By: G-W http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/01/26/on-talibanaq-ties-and-the-afghanistan-exit-strategy/comment-page-1/#comment-27486 Sat, 30 Jan 2010 18:38:08 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=4613#comment-27486 My dear Pakistani cousin, you suffer from a lack of comprehension, like your bretheren and countrymen. If you listen to what I said, I said “IN THE PAST”, that meaning before you guys even got nukes, India, if it chose to, it could have easily defeated Pakistan as India had overwhelming superiority, in every aspect of its military. Today, right now, India has no desire to invade your country and nukes are not even in the equation, if Pakistan were to use even one and that being pro-actively, rogue, or otherwise, Pakistan would not last a day longer, so enough said on the nuclear rhetoric, that is a dead conversation. The point I am trying to make is, is that all the 60 years, you Paks have wasted your energy bleeding us, but actually to hurt another means to actually murder a part of yourself. You Paks lack any sort of human forsight or wisdom of Karmic retribution, it is beyond your simian puny cerebral cortex.

Russia, China, the U.S. has reached space as well, as they also have hungry people, it just shows that some can walk, talk and chew gum at the same time, while Pakistani Army bleeds the potential of its own people to suit is own selfish business interests and begs for cash and internationalizes all of its shortcomings and follies. Yes, India has a lot of poor people, it is a multi-factorial problem, but there is also a huge psychological human barrier that some of them must overcome, anything is possible to achieve, if the human heart believes and one’s aspirations are true and honest to serve oneself and one’s brother in a productive way, God will not deny them progress.

The only way that Pakistan would break the backbone of India, BTW, is if it foolishly in a nightmare scenario, of some kind, pre-emptively launched a crippling, unprovoked nuclear attack, in an attempt to blindside India. I do not know any God, Allah, Rama, Jehovah or otherwise that would from his heavenly wisdom and heart, would condone or be happy and the death of millions of his children, so please stop the foolish nuclear rhetoric, it is cretinous, just accept the fact, India has been a better neighbour to Pakistan than Pakistan has been to India and move on.

Yes you do have a strong and army, be proud of it, so be it, but your Army is not apolitical and too religiously biased to be an effective and truly neutral protector of its citizens. Your Army can’t decide if it wants to embrace the warped aspirations of the past or forge a new future in a modern, intelligent world.

As for Indian politicians, yes the corruption there is horrible, it is an affliction in the subcontinent, your all weather friend China executes corrupt officials, BTW and has ZERO democracy, BTW, in case you did not know, Russia has rampant Mafia. Do you have any criticisms of China, or only praises for the human rights abuses from the Uigher Muslims to Buddhists and appalling record on the environment, everything from poisoned children’s toys and food to poisonous construction materials in the homes of Americans? China is being very careful as well, with all the ethnicities there, China has the potential for disintegration as well, if it does not democratize and treat all religions and cultures equally, yes, I do think they should treat muslims better there, I do not think I will hear you advocating for the treatment of the dwindling and subverted Hindus in Pakistan.

India is far from perfect, but we acknowledge that, but never let our shortcomings stop us from looking to the future with hopes and dreams of improving.

You Pakistani’s are busy fighting with one another over religious politics and in-fighting, that is why you will one day fail and are failing, you Pakistani’s are mostly incapable of reforming.

All that we see is that you think if you keep doing the same thing over and over again, making the same mistake over and over again, that you think, you might have a different outcome. Its like banging your head against a wall, hoping something different will happen.

We Indians DO NOT hate you Pakistani’s, hate takes too much energy, we pity you.

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