Comments on: In Afghanistan: fighting over the terms of a settlement http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/01/31/in-afghanistan-fighting-over-the-terms-of-a-settlement/ Perspectives on Pakistan Thu, 01 Oct 2015 19:31:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: G-W http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/01/31/in-afghanistan-fighting-over-the-terms-of-a-settlement/comment-page-1/#comment-27553 Sat, 06 Feb 2010 16:36:56 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=4625#comment-27553 @Umair,

Umair, you do not understand western European mentality. You keep thumping your chest about Pak Army sacrifices, well to the western mindset, that this is just a part of the progress to achieving the goal. You have no reason speaking out here about sacrifices until militancy is gone from the region, then feel free to gloat about sacrifices and such. In the mean time, feel free to turn in Talibans, keep your eyes and ears open to those bearded guys who call themselves muslims, they rove the streets of Pindi and Islamabad, you never which one, and when may try to harm your countrymen. This is the creation of your army forefathers. Please be more productive and invite all forms destruction backwardness, like the Afghan Taliban, TET, JUD and all Kashmiri militants.

The world will not rest until ALL of Pakistan is rid of anti-civilization and anti-human elements, that includes all strategic depth toys your army guys you have as unofficial limbs of the army, trying night and day to wreak havoc on Afghans and Indians.

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By: G-W http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/01/31/in-afghanistan-fighting-over-the-terms-of-a-settlement/comment-page-1/#comment-27531 Thu, 04 Feb 2010 03:38:23 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=4625#comment-27531 @Rajeev, Keithz, Umair,

Guys, it seems that the Pak Army would consider the losses thus far, within acceptable parameters. They are willing to eat up some biscuit to maintain strategic depth whereever they can, just to keep up appearances until they can help create circumstances for the loss of the Afghan mission. That is my opinion on it. Umair calls those sacrifices and I am sure that most Army people there do to, but in fact, with regards to war planners, and the long term planners there, they are willing to accept a margin of losses to keep political appearances up to keep getting money from the U.S.

On the point by Rajeev and Keith, from other posts, yes the Pakistani’s remain thankless, as the drones keep hunting and killing those who murder Pakistani People, women, and children.

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By: RajeevK http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/01/31/in-afghanistan-fighting-over-the-terms-of-a-settlement/comment-page-1/#comment-27530 Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:23:58 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=4625#comment-27530 @Then thump there chests of giving Pakistan $1.5 bn and at the same time bombing with drones and expect Pakistan to be a friend that is not going to happen”
-Umairpk

Umair: @droning: If you are this unhappy with US for droning Pakistan, you must be mighty pissed off with your own Army for letting this happen since they are the ones who have allowed the launch of the drones from Pakistan. Are you unhappy with PA?

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By: RajeevK http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/01/31/in-afghanistan-fighting-over-the-terms-of-a-settlement/comment-page-1/#comment-27529 Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:23:12 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=4625#comment-27529 @Then thump there chests of giving Pakistan $1.5 bn and at the same time bombing with drones and expect Pakistan to be a friend that is not going to happen”
-Umairpk

Umair: I did not address the droning part. If you are this unhappy with US for droning Pakistan, you must be mighty pissed off with your own Army for letting this happen since they are the ones who have allowed the launch of the drones from Pakistan. Are you unhappy with PA?

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By: RajeevK http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/01/31/in-afghanistan-fighting-over-the-terms-of-a-settlement/comment-page-1/#comment-27528 Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:11:55 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=4625#comment-27528 Umair:
@I would reiterate that If US or Canada or NATO cannot acknowledge Pakistan’s sacrifices. Then thump there chests of giving Pakistan $1.5 bn and at the same time bombing with drones and expect Pakistan to be a friend that is not going to happen.”
Posted by Umairpk

Umair: I think you have not grasped the situation yet. US does not care how many of your soldiers are dead (they got their own killed in Iraq without reason). What they want is get the job done. The job was to defeat Taliban. Pakistan’s job throughout has been to help Taliban survive. Now US/NATO are going back without getting Afghanistan rid off Taliban. The reason is Pakistan’s duplicity. Do not expect US/NATO express gratitude for Pakistan’s duplicity that allowed Taliban to survive. I can only imagine how frequently the F words is being used for Pakistan in private by these politicians from the West.

STILL, for the record Hilary Clinton in person has admitted US’s fault in the past (Pakistan never did), thanked Pakistan for all the sacrifices for the current war (I disagree with her since pakistan does not consider this as Pakistan’s war) and this has been acknowledged by your leaders. Check the news.

It is well known that US pours money in Pakistan and Pakistanis remain thankless. After the current experience, I can only hope US learned something. I will wait and watch.

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By: loloosvk http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/01/31/in-afghanistan-fighting-over-the-terms-of-a-settlement/comment-page-1/#comment-27526 Wed, 03 Feb 2010 16:35:30 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=4625#comment-27526 ——————————————————

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By: DaraIndia http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/01/31/in-afghanistan-fighting-over-the-terms-of-a-settlement/comment-page-1/#comment-27525 Wed, 03 Feb 2010 13:52:46 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=4625#comment-27525 Keith,

I was quite surprised by your comment on the conspiracy theory being spouted by Indians and Pakistanis here. What is it that has got your back up?

You seem to have summarised the situation quite nicely, but the fact is your final “As for Afghanistan, whatever has to happen will” sounds as if you are almost resigned to a negative outcome.

I think what people have conveniently forgotten now is that when this started, in the name of safeguarding US security, 80% of the US was solidly behind Bush. There was much flag waving and a lot of talk like ‘Afghanistan is toast’ and “these colours don’t run”; because they believed that superior fire power and bombardment would bring the Taliban to their knees and they would be finished. There were enough warnings about Pakistan’s role too and yet no one bothered to think things out to their logicl conclusion. There was simply not enough planning or any Plan B or C.

The few sane voices, like Powell who said they are in it for the long haul and that it would take years to sort out the mess, were gradually eased out. Now when the going got tough, there is no resolve left, its all about ‘get the boys back’ from the same 80% who were hysterically waving those flags.

One must ask now, so how long and how often does the world have to suffer the consequences of this kind of fickle mindedness. And no I’m no American baiter. But I, like millions other living in this part of the world, have to suffer the consequences of American adventurism – and not for the first time. Does anyone see that? I wonder….

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By: Umairpk http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/01/31/in-afghanistan-fighting-over-the-terms-of-a-settlement/comment-page-1/#comment-27524 Wed, 03 Feb 2010 09:25:58 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=4625#comment-27524 Rajeev wrote:
“So things are rosy in Swat and South Waziristan but Pehawar is a war zone! whome are you kidding here? Just make up your mind if it is touristy season or war zone.”

-Being in Rawalpindi/Islamabad I try to get input from the media, from the TV, I keep talking to friends and colleagues who belong to Bannu, Peshawar and Darra Adam Khel and Frontier regions etc and just FYI my place of birth is also Peshawar thoug I am not pushtun. My sources of keeping upto date with the latest situation is not just one. And yes I get conflicting news sometimes. A colleague of mine hails from bannu he told me things are quite at his hometown. Then during the weekend a girls school was bombed in Bannu. Again in Bajaur and it is same situation, just recently there was BBC news saying that the millitant stronghold of Damdola was captured by Pakistan Army. So a lot of things taking place, then again in the cities like Islamabad or Rawalpindi things remain normal but there is occasional attack here and there but lately things are looking much normal. It is a stalemate, the state of Pakistan (Army, Air Force, ISI, paramilitary, Police etc) are overstretched and have a major task to protect huge civil and military installations and ensure public security. Millitants on the other hand have to simply pull off suicide and simple attacks and it is very difficult to stop such attacks despite all efforts.
Despite everything, it is very clear for what is going on in Pakistan the country has to be very resilient to come back from the brink everytime. So i am still positive, with the withdrawal of foreign forces from Afghanistan, with Pakistan and Saudi Arabia playing a mediation role and a negotiated settlement taking place things will improve.
Regarding the point I made to Keith, I would reiterate that If US or Canada or NATO cannot acknowledge Pakistan’s sacrifices. Then thump there chests of giving Pakistan $1.5 bn and at the same time bombing with drones and expect Pakistan to be a friend that is not going to happen. Pakistan lost more than $35 bn in economic losses due to war and suffered almost 2500 military and many thousands of civilian fatalities. No one can repay and account for those losses. And those insincere ones who claim to be Pakistan’s friends, in their presence Pakistan dont need any enemies.

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By: DaraIndia http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/01/31/in-afghanistan-fighting-over-the-terms-of-a-settlement/comment-page-1/#comment-27523 Wed, 03 Feb 2010 06:37:53 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=4625#comment-27523 Keith,

I accept what you say, we are on the same page. My stand is that the priority should only be Afghanistan and stability, not on my terms or yours or anyone else. That is what I think happened in London, every one was and is looking at it from their own short term benefit. That is the key problem. They are looking at a common approach to different goals – not a sensible approach.

Like it was over the climate change issue – its all me and mine to solve a global problem. There is no collective focus and unless there is, there will be only tokenism and rhetoric. History will repeat itself a few years down the line with worse consequences.

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By: DaraIndia http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/01/31/in-afghanistan-fighting-over-the-terms-of-a-settlement/comment-page-1/#comment-27522 Wed, 03 Feb 2010 06:24:35 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=4625#comment-27522 Myra,

I am going by the impression I get from all the Pakistani bloggers here, almost without exception. Also many analysts say the same thing – Pakistan is biding its time till the Americans leave so that they can regain control of affairs in Afghanistan. I also think that it is the true picture. Naturally the Pakistani establishment will not tout this line openly.

Thanks for the Raja Mohan link, I read it in the Indian Express yesterday. Though I agree generally with his analysis, I think there is some wishful thinking on his part, specially when it comes to the trust deficit, he seems to gloss over it.

Just one example: “Five, India must also make a special effort to address Pakistan’s fears — irrational as they might seem in Delhi — that it is meddling on its western frontiers.”

He gives suggestions without how to go about doing so. What exactly can India do to belie fears that are irrational? Has anyone, other than the State of Pakistan, accused India of fomenting trouble in that area? As far as I know that idea has been scoffed at by most. Obviously I don’t expect Pakistan enthusiasts to accept that line. But how should India go about doing what he says? I also see no mention of what Pakistan is not doing and needs to, to assuage Indian sentiments over Pakistan’s supreme indifference to being a terror factory and nursery. No, it is not enough to say Pakistan is also a victim! It is sadly, reaping what it has sown, India on the other hand is suffering because of its foolish strategy of conducting a proxy war through Islamic fundamentalists.

I also have no doubt that everyone (India, the West and even Pakistan) wants a stable Afghanistan. My point is that they are not doing anything constructive about it. All they are playing at is how to best extricate themselves from a mess they have created while some are playing the waiting game biding their time. My point is, all this has happened before, it didn’t work. Why will it be any different this time?

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