Lashkar-e-Taiba founder says sees room for Pakistan-India talks

February 18, 2010

singhgilaniThe idea of holding talks to resolve the many competing interests across Afghanistan, Pakistan and India – which has most recently focused on whether the Afghan Taliban can be brought to the negotiating table – appears to be catching on.

Now Hafiz Saeed, the founder of the banned Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba militant group blamed for the Nov. 2008 attacks on Mumbai, says in an interview with Al Jazeera that he sees room for Pakistan to hold talks with India over disputed Kashmir.

“”We’ve never said ‘no’ to a dialogue. To say that we don’t believe in dialogue is propaganda,” he said in a rare interview. “We’ve always talked about a dialogue but the problem is it should be productive and obtain results. India has never been sincere in talks and only holds talks when it is in her interests.  If she wants to restore confidence in the talks, she must accept Kashmir as a core dispute.”

Saeed, who runs the Jamaat-ud-Dawa humanitarian wing of the Laskhar-e-Taiba, has been accused by India of masterminding the attacks on Mumbai — an accusation he denies. He is also seen as close to the Pakistan Army, so for him to come out now and talk about talks carries some resonance.

The foreign secretaries of India and Pakistan are due to hold talks on Feb. 25 to try to end the diplomatic freeze which followed the Mumbai attacks. Although no quick progress is expected, especially after last weekend’s bombing in the Indian city of Pune, it’s hard to escape the impression that the long stalemate  over Afghanistan, Pakistan and India is lifting.

In any case, it’s very unusual to see a top Afghan Taliban commander arrested in Pakistan in the same week that one of the leaders of the Pakistan-based fight against Indian rule in Kashmir gives an interview about talks.   Coincidence or otherwise, there seems to be an acceleration in regional diplomacy.

(File photo of Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and Pakistani Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani)

68 comments

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I admire your optimism Myra.

Would the West talk to Osama?

Posted by DaraIndia | Report as abusive

Sorry, my previous comment is irrelevant. Sounds as if the point is about talking to Saeed, which is not what the article is about.

Posted by DaraIndia | Report as abusive

Dara,

Yes indeed. The point is about Hafiz Saeed’s view of talks between India and Pakistan. But can you think of a time before when Saeed said he would not rule out dialogue? I’m looking, but if you can find something tell me.

Posted by Myra.MacDonald | Report as abusive

@ But can you think of a time before when Saeed said he would not rule out dialogue? I’m looking, but if you can find something tell me.
-Myra

Myra: With all due respect to your expertise, you are dangerously naive. Looking for such statements from terrorists, who have used gun as pen to show their intent, is plain academic exercise and worse sticking head in the sand.

Let me know if this is enough for you:

Saeed is LeT chief and LeT has the agenda much more than Kashmir. Do terrorists ever say they do not believe in dialogue? How many times India-Pak have talked about dialogue. Did you ever hear even indirectly that LeT or specifically this particular terrorist Saeed was interested in that course. To me that is sufficient evidence that he did not believe in dialogue.

“Jihad, Hafiz Saeed said during the All Pakistan Ulema Convention held on July 17, 2003, at Lahore, is the only way Pakistan can move towards dignity and prosperity.” Notice “ONLY WAY”. Is this not an evidence?

http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/ india/states/jandk/terrorist_outfits/las hkar_e_toiba.htm

“Objectives/Ideology

“The LeT’s professed ideology goes beyond merely challenging India’s sovereignty over the State of Jammu and Kashmir. The Lashkar’s ‘agenda’, as outlined in a pamphlet titled Why are we waging jihad includes the restoration of Islamic rule over all parts of India. Further, the outfit seeks to bring about a union of all Muslim majority regions in countries that surround Pakistan. Towards that end, it is active in J&K, Chechnya and other parts of Central Asia.

“Hafiz Saeed, a scholar of Islam, has said that the purpose of Jihad is to carry out a sustained struggle for the dominance of Islam in the entire world and to eliminate the evil forces and the ignorant. He considers India, Israel and US to be his prime enemies and has threatened to launch Fidayeen (suicide squad) attacks on American interests too.”

“The LeT has consistently advocated the use of force and vowed that it would plant the ‘flag of Islam’ in Washington, Tel Aviv and New Delhi.

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive

Talks are the only option whether LeT believes in it or not. There is no way that India or Pakistan can solve the Kashmir issue by using force or intimidation.

http://indiafirsthand.com/?p=1500#more-1 500

Posted by IndiaFirstHand | Report as abusive

Well I haven’t really been a keen follower of the utterances of Saeed so I don’t know of any such instance. But, for those who have been following his speeches, has he ever said before that talking to India is a waste of time or that Paksitan should not have a dialogue with India. If he has then what he says here is pertinent.

However, from an Indian standpoint Saeed’s opinion on talks will be certainly not be taken as the voice of reason. And with good reason too.

Hafiz Saeed may deny Indian allegations of his masterminding 26/11. The fact remains that his No.2 Lakhvi is languishing in a Pakistani prison on the very same charges. He was kept in the dark by his most trusted aide? I doubt if the JUD or LeT is that democratic. He should be the main accused, yet Pakistan simply cannot take the risk of touching him or going after him seriously. Too many skeletons. They will trickle out by and by though.

Posted by DaraIndia | Report as abusive

Myra, new topic,

“Pakistan appears to be taking on Afghan Taliban, will it follow through wholly and reign in Kashmiri Militants as well?

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive

Simple answer NO, why should they open multiple fronts if India is NOT sincere in peace. Than let the kashmiris decide what they want and the outcome of kashmiris decision should be acceptable to all parties india pakistan as well as the international community.

If India is sincere why not move you your army back so Pakistan can carry on hunting these killers down one by one slowly but surely. But instead India always adds to the Pakistan problems why shoudnt they after all, isnt that, what the real enemy does?

Its proven fact India does not want to peaceful Pakistan, which is in the intrest of India too if it was peacefull. If Pakistan can not take care of these groups can India? I dont think so, wise thinking on the indian side would be to be more sincere diplomatically. Resolve the core issues Kashmir, Water and so on and as bigger neighour its India duty. Hope good people on both sides have their say and after all wars dont solve anything at the end it is on the table agreements are made.

I just wish the indians thinking changes, as a oridinary citizen of Kashmir. I do not see sincerety on the insians side and thats the cause of all problems.

Posted by Magic786 | Report as abusive

Magic786:

@ Than let the kashmiris decide what they want and the outcome of kashmiris decision should be acceptable to all parties india pakistan as well as the international community.”
–Perhaps you can tell us when were the Kashmiris allowed to think for themselves? You can also tell us when were Kashmiris–Indian or in POK–asked to gift the huge land mass of Kashmir to China.

Also, you need to read about the constitution of Azad kashmir that conflicts with the self-determination of Kashmiris–so often demanded by Pakistani politicians and public. Forget about India, Pakistan has lied to Kashmiris.

Azad Kashmir was meant as a model for independent Kashmir or if Kashmir decide to live in Pakistan. What a model. Read this Dawn article where the author calls Azad Kashmir “a living hell”. This article is from Dawn.

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn -content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/edit orial/16-azad-kashmir-today-hs-05

Also, do not miss the photograph where Kashmiris are shown pelleting stones in so-called Azad Kashmir. May be you need to know the status of Kashmiris in Pakistan also. But you care about Kashmiris in India only.

This is one of the rare instances that media has talked about Kashmiris in Pakistan.

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive

Myra:

@Although no quick progress is expected, especially after last weekend’s bombing in the Indian city of Pune, …….”

Myra: Lack of progress is not going to be due to Pune blast. Kuldeep Nayar writes in Dawn “New Delhi said rightly within an hour of the (Pune) blast that it would not display a knee-jerk reaction and did not cancel the talks. The important lesson to learn from the Pune blast is to continue talking, whether the meeting of the foreign secretaries is a success or not.”

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn -content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/colu mnists/16-kuldip-nayar-politics-of-terro rism-hs-01
________________________________________ ________

Dara:

@But, for those who have been following his speeches, has he ever said before that talking to India is a waste of time or that Paksitan should not have a dialogue with India.”
–No idea if he said No to talks specifically but there is no point looking for that even if he said NO. How much we trust the word of terrorists.

But what do you make of ““Jihad, Hafiz Saeed said during the All Pakistan Ulema Convention held on July 17, 2003, at Lahore, is the only way Pakistan can move towards dignity and prosperity.” Pretty much sums up he is for violence ONLY. Pl. check SATP link in my post to Myra for the context.

Also, “Last October, addressing a gathering in Lahore to honor LeT mujahideen slain in Kashnir, Saeed called the dialogue a fraud and alleged that India was putting pressure on Musharraf through the U.S., to restrict the activities of his group. [10]”
Check ref#10. I did not.

http://www.jamestown.org/single/?no_cach e=1&tx_ttnewstt_news=314

What do you and Myra say?

But I have to add here that confusion about who rules Pakistan has increased with Zardari, Gilani, Kayani and now Saeed’s addition. While President Zardari is Snubbed, Terrorist Saeed is promoted. Citizens call Zardari 10% but when asked about Saeed they keep mum. What a country!

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive

Dara:

But what do you make of ““Jihad, Hafiz Saeed said during the All Pakistan Ulema Convention held on July 17, 2003, at Lahore, is the only way Pakistan can move towards dignity and prosperity.”

Also, “Last October, addressing a gathering in Lahore to honor LeT mujahideen slain in Kashnir, Saeed called the dialogue a fraud and alleged that India was putting pressure on Musharraf through the U.S., to restrict the activities of his group. [10]“

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive

Rajeev,

Quite frankly, I really do not have any great expectations nor do I think what he says is so relevant.He has always preached violence and Islamisation of the world, India being just the starters.

His thoughts on dialogue carry no weight with me, after his past record. That Myra thinks that they do, is her opinion and her right.

Posted by DaraIndia | Report as abusive

–Perhaps you can tell us when were the Kashmiris allowed to think for themselves?

Exactly when you have whole of Kashmir filled with your rapest army what do you expect democracy and free thinking to flourish in Kashmir? Not even allowed to have peacefull protest against the illegal occupation by the indian forces.

Its is Kashmiris whos land it is, its Kashmiris who are suffering from both sides but more so from your cowardice, murderous and rapest army and dummy abdullahs.

The simple answer is indians are scared they know that all kashmiris especilay Muslims will never ever vote to be part the india. After all its the indian coward soldiers, who raped their kashmiri sisters, mothers, and murdered their brothers and fathers its hardly a heart winning exercise which has been carried out for last 30 odd years.

Rajeeve the line that was drawn was based on religion muslims majorty will form Pakistan and hindu majority form hindustan. Simply even on that context Kashmir is part of Pakistan.

As someone whos family orginates from Azad Kashmir let me tell you that we have freedom think what we want, practice what we want and also the standard of life in AK is better than Pakistan and lot more so compare to Indian Occupied Kashmir.

Since india is mother of all democracies my foot, how about a peblicte which is passed by UN to let the Kashmiris decide what they want.

Before I get an idiot suggesting that this should alos take place in ALL of kashmir including Azad (free) Kashmir and also the Indian Occupied too and let kashmiris decide. BUt thats simply a tall order to ask the worlds biggest democracy ha…

India will never win even ONE Kashmiri heart till you are not sincere from the heart to resolve this to the eishes of the kasmiris. There will be plenty more hafiz saeeds born n so on. A peacefull SA is simply a dream till india carries on occupying my beautifull land.

Thats the reality Rajeeve by pointing how Pakistan treats kashmiris simply does not mean two wrongs make it right. Sincerely speaking you are telling me kashmiris hate india simply because they are non muslims etc its the cations of your armed forces which have filled every kashmiris heart with hatered for indians.

Posted by Magic786 | Report as abusive

@Magic786:

Cut the crap and answer me about the article where Dawn editor writes POK (Azad Huh!) as living hell. May be you can tell us when were Kashmiris were consulted for waging terrorism in India and kashmir. May be you can tell us when were Kashmiris consulted in handing over large land mass of Kashmir to China. May be you can tell us if religion is the basis then may be you will like to have Indian Muslims in Pakistan. They are nearly the population of Pakistan. So then you can call them Muhajirs and insult them. same thing for Kashmir, first you will pick religion as the deciding factor, then the terrorists you are supporting will pick Sunnis over Shia. Check JeM and its alliances and what it does and enlighten yourself.

regarding Indian Army rah rah, Kashmiris were doing just fine until Pakistan decided that terrorism is the solution to the issue and as if that was not enough Kargil was waged.

All my questions remained unaddressed and these too will remain so.

what do you say ALI?

You are not for kashmiris, you are anti-India.

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive

First thanks for forwarding the link, and at least we have free media where the people are allowed to speak their mind and allowed to write what he/she wants and actually I like Dawn but I will read it later.

But were the Kashmiris consulted when you send your murderous army to destroy and kill young kashmiris in staged killing and label them as terrorists. You know exactly what your army is good at killing inncoent kashmiris, raping the women folk i wonder if you are aware of the rape just recently happened and due to that there were mass protests in the valley. Even the local adminstation denied all charges and then changed their mind.

Rajeeve there was no such thing as terrorism as its only been added to oxford dictionary I think after 9/11 prior to that even OBL was a freedom fighter in the eyes of the West, so it depends how you look at the situation.

But I understand your position as hardcore hindu I dont expect you to have one word sympthy for the kashmiris. After all in your eyes they are not humans are they, so you can do what you like ha. You telling me that indians are saints my foot, the fact you tried your best to win Kashmir, as a land but never tried to win even one kashmiris heart. Thats a fact I know hard pill tp swallow right.

Even though Pakistan is not exactly paradise and far from it but still if Kashmris had choice they would rather be with Pakis than idiots!
All you have gained is hatered for the indians even thoses that have nothing to do with it e.g. the civilians never mind your coward armed forces.

I dont have to answer any of your questions as you already know the facts or will only believe what you want to.

If I am not for kashmris… are u? Never heard you utter a word against the laws you have to opress kashmiris, where you can detain and murder anyone without anyone moving a eye lid. You khatris know too well what you have done another story if you want to bury your head in tatti and not look at the facts that Kashmir deserve the right to self determination as back by the UN. Remember!!

How about bit of peblicite? Isnt that what democracies is all about but than rajeev that wount suit india will it? even u know that idiots have not done anything to even win ONE kashmiri heart. But might have bribed few to run you dummy administration in Sringare.

Have a glass of water before you reply…

Posted by Magic786 | Report as abusive

@First thanks for forwarding the link, and at least we have free media where the people are allowed to speak their mind and allowed to write what he/she wants and actually I like Dawn but I will read it later.”
–Magic786

Ali: Go spare some time and read Dawn article. Either the Dawn author is wrong or you.

@ut I understand your position as hardcore hindu I dont expect you to have one word sympthy for the kashmiris. After all in your eyes they are not humans are they, so you can do what you like ha.”
–Hardcore Hindu? How do you know? Assumptions or brainwashing by Pakistan schools curriculum?. It all tells more about you than about me.

Kashmiris are suffering because bigots like you are not ready to say that they are stuck between Indian Army and Pakistani terrorists (not approved by Kashmiris).

@Rajeeve there was no such thing as terrorism as its only been added to oxford dictionary I think after 9/11 prior to that even OBL was a freedom fighter in the eyes of the West, so it depends how you look at the situation.”
–India is not in the West and I am not talking about OBL. I am talking about terrorists like Kasab. So Kasab is a freedomfighter, then so are TTP Mehsuds who also want their rule in the place they live. You seriously need help on how to use the information as far as the terrorist definition is concerned. you applaud LeT and Kasab types that killed 40 Muslims (forget remainig 120victims in Mumbai). So Muslims killed Muslims. You are a Shia and they will be after you once the the religion issue is solved. There is no end to all this. Do not feel so safe.

@ You khatris know too well what you have done another story if you want to bury your head in tatti and not look at the facts that Kashmir deserve the right to self determination as back by the UN. Remember!!”
–ALI: Talk like this to your family members if that is the culture there. Stupid trying to pose as Magic786.

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive

@That Myra thinks that they do, is her opinion and her right.
Posted by DaraIndia”

Dara: agreed. But I was trying to interpret the meaning of Mr. Saeed’s statements.

In the end it hardly matters if he said No to dialogue and is ready now. Point is does India want to talk. What he said in the past carries not much weight—terrorist or not–if the person is changing for real.

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive

Magic,

You are obviously an expert on the situation in Kashmir and the plebiscite and its history. So, could you please educate us by quoting the complete text of the UN resolution on holding of the plebsicite. Also, if you do know, could you please also tell us the terms and conditions under which the commission, I am sure you know which one, that decided on the demarcation of India and Pakistan decided on the borders between the two countries?

I see the most common word in your vocabulary is ‘rapest’. I think you should check it out. Thank you.

ps. I don’t expect you to answer the questions.

Posted by DaraIndia | Report as abusive

They should start teaching the full text of the applicable UNSCRs in Pakistani schools so that Pakistanis finally understand what is required for a plebiscite in Kashmir.

These calls for a plebiscite by India (while completely ignoring Pakisan’s obligations under the same UNSCR) are getting ridiculous. Are Pakistanis really that brainwashed or is it just a case of a very selective memory? Magic please go read the full text of UNSCR 47 available here:

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/kas hun47.htm

You will note para 1 under section A that states:

. The Government of Pakistan should undertake to use its best endeavours:

(a) To secure the withdrawal from the State of Jammu and Kashmir of tribesmen and Pakistani nationals not normally resident therein who have entered the State for the purposes of fighting, and to prevent any intrusion into the State of such elements and any furnishing of material aid to those fighting in the State;

(b) To make known to all concerned that the measures indicated in this and the following paragraphs provide full freedom to all subjects of the State, regardless of creed, caste, or party, to express their views and to vote on the question of the accession of the State, and that therefore they should co-operate in the maintenance of peace and order.

Please direct us to where we can find evidence that Pakistan has met its obligations under this UNSCR. You will note that the withdrawal of Pakistani nationals was considered a pre-requisite for any plebiscite. This means that Pakistan should be withdrawing all tribal forces, Pakistani military and para-military personnel. And all Pakistani citizens. This means there should not be any Sindhi, Pashtuns or Punjabis in Kashmir. That was a UN pre-requisite. What’s Pakistan’s plan for compliance? Surely, if they care about the Kashmiris and want that plebiscite they would have complied with their part of UNSCR 47. They’ve had nearly 52 years.

At least most Pakistanis I’ve met in an official capacity don’t parrot that line. I suspect they know that the UNSCR calls for a full Pakistani withdrawal from Kashmir before they have to host a plebiscite.

Posted by kEiThZ | Report as abusive

Magic786,

Your derisive, bigoted, & offensive rhetoric reveals your hollow & abhorrent persona. There’s no need for you to inflict the effects of the anti-India & anti-Hindu virus injected into you at birth, on the civilized participants of this blog, I’m sure there are many Pakistani sites where you can vent out your frustration. Insulting others & their religion might make you feel like a man but out here you look nothing more than a babbling, obnoxious & repugnant moron. A civilized fact-based debate on Kashmir is always welcome but you seem incapable of that. People like you give good Pakistanis a bad rep, so for their sake, just go back to your hole & stay there.

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive

@keithz,

Thanks for posting UNSCR 47, many times now, but Pakistani’s choose to stay as an ignorant and shallow peoples.

International laws, morality and telling the truth to non-muslims, is a minor obstacle to achieving the long term goals of the genocidal Deobandi and Jihadists , both in Uniform and without uniform, state or non-state actors, to me they are all one in the same anyway, when it comes to India and hindus.

One day the world will pick a side, and it won’t be with Pakistan. Pakistani’s much choose the side of reason, fairness, reason, truth and abandon religiously charged reasoning as a basis to deal with every problem with India, the west and the world.

As far as I am concerned, 99% of Pakistan is illiterate, Madrassa education, is brainwashing, not education. Rickshaw drivers in India even know good English and many of them never attended any schools.

Keithz, my friend, Pakistani’s don’t care damn about their responsibility to Kashmir, they are just itching to genocide more hindus there, once the PA comes and sets up shop, that is the long term plan, Hindu liquidation, by any means.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive

It seems like I have touched few RAW nerves across the border ooops… Take a chill pill maybe you dont have them across the LOC.

“These calls for a plebiscite by India (while completely ignoring Pakisan’s obligations under the same UNSCR) are getting ridiculous”

Grow up Keiths, when I said have peblicte you can go back and read the comment again, I said ALL of Kashmir. So which part dont you understand? ALL!

Maybe because I didnt get brainwashed at one of those hardcore hindu schools just like Rajeeve and many more. So my opnion is different to yours instead of having bit of guts and accepting that we are all entitled to our opnions and thoughts.

Firstly let me tell NO Pakistani is allowed to buy land in Azad Kashmir but as a Kashmiri I am allowed to do this anywhere in Pakistan. To keep the Azad Kashmir not filled with Pakistanis etc however on the flip side of the coin I think you have flooded Jammu with plenty of your hardcore hindu brothers to chnage the status quo.

“Keithz, my friend, Pakistani’s don’t care damn about their responsibility to Kashmir, they are just itching to genocide more hindus there”

If we wanted to do that you know how many years did the Muslims ruled you, surly we had enough time to SMASH every single bajrang bali temple and so on. But the fact is some Muslim rulers were cruel maybe did some damage and some were good. If you generally look at India you will also see what the muslims also brought to india. Simply look at some of the buildings so many e.g. taj mahal which actsing as catalyst to drive your tourism industry so on.

The fact is – If you hardcore hindu leaders 1947 were willing to share power with muslims we wouldnt have had Pakistan, by not re-assuring the muslims of the intrests Jinnah decided theses khatris are very double sworded. The once can not even say we will guarntee your intrests, never mind puting into practice. Thats the real thing and none of u want to beleive…

“Hardcore Hindu? How do you know? Assumptions or brainwashing by Pakistan schools curriculum?. It all tells more about you than about me.”

If 99% Pakistan was illetarte then where did curicilum come from? Not assumptions simply reading your comments for some time, looks like your are anti-kashmriis anti-muslim and most of all anti-pakistan most of all do not have the courage to accept that we are all entitled to different opnions. so I think you need to grow up and accept the reality. Which is Indian armed forces are only good at “raping” kashmiri womens, mothers, daughters what a fruitful excercise to win the hearts of kashmiris!!!

Bravo!!!

Posted by Magic786 | Report as abusive

“This means there should not be any Sindhi, Pashtuns or Punjabis in Kashmir. That was a UN pre-requisite. What’s Pakistan’s plan for compliance? Surely, if they care about the Kashmiris and want that plebiscite they would have complied with their part of UNSCR 47. They’ve had nearly 52 years.”

Fully acknowledged…. now for the idiots part, whats there rresposibilty?…. to increase the No of occupying forces agianst the wishes of kashmiri people.

Surley you are keeping your side of the story and also let me tell you there are no sindhis, punjabis and so on living there. I live there so I know unlike some of you sitting in Madras and so on never been to kashmir. But been brainwashed with your comic like new channels e.g. star plus.

As a kashmiri I am not for the pakis nor indians all we want is both out india/pakistan once for all. Leave us alone we have managed our affairs before you both even became independent and we know how to live side by side with the hindus/sikhs and so on…

We can talk of whos fault it is so on…but the fact is the more you ignore the real issue which is kashmiris have a problem living under idiots occupation. Till that does not end there will plenty more hafiz saeeds so on…. anyway i belive in inncoent untill proven guilty. Not to say i condone anyone or group or country killing inncoent people anywhere. But you pursumed saeed is my hero or so on… To us the hero are the Maqbool Bhatts who died in indian cutody and till this day he lives in out every kashmiris heart.

Reagrds to english speaking rickshaw drivers my frined go to you tube type on – english speaking beggars karachi – you will see kids even the kids on the street know better english than your rickshaw drivers so what. Infact good for you but he is still a rickshaw driver!

Posted by Magic786 | Report as abusive

Innocent Sikhs being swallowed and liquidation in Pakistan, for refusing to convert to Islam:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/02/pakist an-taliban-behead-3-sikhs-for-refusing-t o-convert-to-islam.html

For those Pakistani’s who claim subjugation of Sikhs in India, please take note, Indians do not behead.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive

I think more to do with money than converstions as i read it in BBC site but as idiots one has to find a site which is ridicules. How can one force someone to belive in something else, even if they do it by lip srvice since it is not from heart its not a true converstion. Anyway we dont need more muslims in numbers etc.

Before the fellow sikhs were beheaded by these cowrds it was the Pakistani security personlls that have been beheaded but guess that is something you do not want to highlight. So to them it is irrelavent what one belives in. As terrorists have no relligion they have an agenda to make money.

All they wanted was ransom and was not paid and they did this cowrdly action. So STOP paining it as it was Mr Gillani who ordered it etc and get a grip. By the way what difference does it make how you kill someone…
Behead him, put a bullet through his chest, simply burn erm or as idiots do it simply burn the fulll areas e.g. gujrat the end result is same.

Bottom line its the Muslims Pakistani that were beheaded by these cowrds before they even turned on sikhs..

“Indians do not behead.” They have better methods or should I say modern ways to achieve the same objectives.. for expample showing Jesus drinking beer guess idiots felt since so called modern Europenas were defaming the Holfy Muslim prophet and they did not wanted to be left behind so what picked on Jesus.

Posted by Magic786 | Report as abusive

Magic786:

@ If we wanted to do that you know how many years did the Muslims ruled you, surly we had enough time to SMASH every single bajrang bali temple and so on.”
— “WE”!!! How are you so sure that Hindu blood is not running through your veins! Find your pedigree and how you came about to be called as Muslim, especially in Kashmir. But then may be you would not like to know the terrible fact.

@ Fully acknowledged”
—Such feeble agreement to Pakistan’s role in Kashmir; such discomfort that Pakistan, like India, is also part of the problem. But you are yelling at roof top against India and saying ““Death to India” but lose your tongue against Pakistan. If you are a man enough say “death to Pakistan”. If your reason is Indian atrocities against Kashmiris, same is true for Pakistan against Kashmiris in POK.

@If 99% Pakistan was illetarte then where did curicilum come from?”
- No one said illiterate. Distorted history, hate aginst Hinduism, hate against India has been taught to you in Pakistan’s schools. This is well documented and is based on the research by Pakistan’s scholars. Read the report link which tells how students like you are sytemetically brainwashed. BTW, did you read Dawn article yet?

http://www.sdpi.org/whats_new/reporton/S tate%20of%20Curr&TextBooks.pdf

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive

Magic786:

@ Not assumptions simply reading your comments for some time, looks like your are anti-kashmriis anti-muslim and most of all anti-pakistan.”
–Clearly you are not closely following my comments. From all the categories you mentioned, I am against none. But I am against Pakistani terrorists and their silent and vocal supporters like you (not against normal peaceful people) from Pakistan who are out to kill innocent Indians (Hindus+Muslims+Christians+Sikhs+..) under the façade of “Kashmiri freedom fighters”. I am against their supporters, examplified by you.

@ As a kashmiri I am not for the pakis nor indians all we want is both out india/pakistan once for all. Leave us alone we have managed our affairs before you both even became independent and we know how to live side by side with the hindus/sikhs and so on….”
–Really but you are anti-India. You have to convince us you are anti-Pak!!! May be religion comes in your way. Indepdeent Kashmir? That brings me back to my question in my earlier post asking you to have a look at the constitution of so-called Azad Kashmir which conflicts with the self-determination or independence which Kashmiris seek and you pretend to do so. Then, I wonder why you are not cursing Pakistan which has not allowed this from happening even in theory.

A leader with an opinion to fight for independent Kashmir is ineligible to participate in the political process in Azad Kashmir. “Kashmir banega Pakistan”, if you remember. It is pre-condition for POK leader. Self-determination is not allowed for Kashmiris in Pakistan which throws your “we are all entitled to different opinions” and want “independent Kashmir” to trash. But confused as you are like tiny robot yelling anti-India and “rapist.

At other times you say that based on religion, Kashmir has to go with Pakistan. Which one are you really for?

As A Kashmiri from Pakistan (let me assume), what are your opinions that Pakistan gave away huge Kashmir land for free to China?—may be they asked you, did they?

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive

Magic786:

let me ask you this:

1. Why you talk trash?
2. Tell me anything positive in India. Pakistan has some like free press (India also has that), a good number of scholars who although are trying their best are not powerful enough, some moderate Mullahs criticizing Taliban and getting killed, women better than men in expressing their anger against Taliban rule.

@So to them it is irrelavent what one belives in. As terrorists have no relligion they have an agenda to make money.”
–Why Taliban are terrorists for you and not freedom fighters, seeking to have Muslim rule of their chice in the place they live, why Pakthuns and Baloch who take up guns are not freedom fighters. after all Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan was a real Afghan unlike Pakistani Punjabi terrorists (like LeT and JeM whom you label freedom fighters) and was non-violent who fought gracefully against Pakistan’s rule. People like you pay lip service and money comes from US and Saudis and other aids and that makes these LeT and JeM as contract killers. Why Mehsuds are terrorists according to you is very unclear.

No trash talk.

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive

It seems like I have touched few RAW nerves across the border ooops… Take a chill pill maybe you dont have them across the LOC.

“These calls for a plebiscite by India (while completely ignoring Pakisan’s obligations under the same UNSCR) are getting ridiculous”

Grow up Keiths, when I said have peblicte you can go back and read the comment again, I said ALL of Kashmir. So which part dont you understand? ALL!
—–
And you will note that UNSCR 47 requires a full withdrawal of all Pakistani nationals before a plebiscite can be administered across ALL of Kashmir.
==========

Maybe because I didnt get brainwashed at one of those hardcore hindu schools just like Rajeeve and many more. So my opnion is different to yours instead of having bit of guts and accepting that we are all entitled to our opnions and thoughts.
—–
I amd not Indian and didn’t go to a “hardcore hindu school” but how bright of you to make bigoted assumptions about anybody who challenges your viewpoints. That speaks volumes about the type of person you are.
=========

Firstly let me tell NO Pakistani is allowed to buy land in Azad Kashmir but as a Kashmiri I am allowed to do this anywhere in Pakistan. To keep the Azad Kashmir not filled with Pakistanis etc however on the flip side of the coin I think you have flooded Jammu with plenty of your hardcore hindu brothers to chnage the status quo.
—-
That no Pakistani is allowed to buy land in AK is irrelevant and inconsequential to the matter at hand. For all intents and purposes, AK has become a Pakistani province in direct contravention of the letter and spirit of various UNSC resolutions on the matter. It is administered by Pakistan. It is filled with resident Pakistani nationals. And is entirely dependent on the Pakistani state, a relationship created by Pakistan. How then can Pakistanis demand that India meet its obligations when Pakistan clearly has not and has no intention of ever meeting these obligations?
====================

Fully acknowledged…. now for the idiots part, whats there rresposibilty?…. to increase the No of occupying forces agianst the wishes of kashmiri people.
Surley you are keeping your side of the story and also let me tell you there are no sindhis, punjabis and so on living there. I live there so I know unlike some of you sitting in Madras and so on never been to kashmir. But been brainwashed with your comic like new channels e.g. star plus.
—–
Nice double standard you got going there. So India should completely withdraw and Pakistan should not have to? That’s certainly not how the UNSC saw it. They mandated that Pakistan withdraw BEFORE India administered a UN monitored plebiscite. You can’t cherry-pick which parts of international law you want to follow. It’s either all or nothing.
=====
As a kashmiri I am not for the pakis nor indians all we want is both out india/pakistan once for all. Leave us alone we have managed our affairs before you both even became independent and we know how to live side by side with the hindus/sikhs and so on…
—-
And I will tell you right now, as somebody who does not live in the region or has any personal interest in this conflict, that nobody cares about the Kashmiris. Not the Indians and not the Pakistanis. After all, if the Pakistanis really cared they would have followed the instructions in UNSCR 47, they would not have split off the Northern Areas, and they would not have bought China’s assistance by trading away parts of Kashmir like trading cards.

What has, however, hurt your cause, is that Kashmiris have become far more anti-Indian, which really betrays your ambition. Had the world seen an equal emphasis struggle against Pakistan’s occupation of Kashmir, you might have had more sympathy. The reality is that, your struggle today is viewed largely as Pakistani mischief both inside and outside India. If you really cared about an independent Kashmir, you’d be fighting for all of it, not just the part that’s in India.

And yes that really is what it looks like from outside the region. After all, can you explain why terror attacks in J&K seem to ebb and flow with the trend of Indo-Pakistani relations? If the freedom struggle was entirely indigenous, would we not see a sustained campaign that was independent of the frequency of chai meetings between Indian and Pakistani politicians?
==========

We can talk of whos fault it is so on…but the fact is the more you ignore the real issue which is kashmiris have a problem living under idiots occupation. Till that does not end there will plenty more hafiz saeeds so on…. anyway i belive in inncoent untill proven guilty. Not to say i condone anyone or group or country killing inncoent people anywhere. But you pursumed saeed is my hero or so on… To us the hero are the Maqbool Bhatts who died in indian cutody and till this day he lives in out every kashmiris heart.
——
Keep up the violence and it’ll only beget more. In case you haven’t noticed these days, in the post-9/11, post-Balkans world, the world has no apetite or sympathy for violent, ethnic nationalist insurgencies. Every terror attack elsewhere in India, against civilians simply delegitimizes the Kashmiri cause and makes it look more and more like a front for Pakistani malfeasance. Had Kashmiris stuck to an insurgency within Kashmir against the Indian Army, there might have been some sympathy for your case. Deploying Pakistani bred terrorists against innocent civilians and western tourists pretty much guarantees that nobody will view your cause as anything more than an excuse for terrorism.

Posted by kEiThZ | Report as abusive

Mark my words. Nothing will kill support for the Kashmiri cause then Kashmiri groups associating themselves with the global jihad.

The average Westerner does not really care about Kashmir. But guess which side he’s going to sympathize with when Kashmiri terrorists start killing his friends and family or blowing things up in his backyard. After the arrest of Headly, we now know that LeT is going global, so this is an entirely plausible scenario.

If it does come to pass, you can bet that virtually every Kashmiri pro-independence will be written off as trouble-makers or terrorists. Far better for Kashmiris to turn away from violence and dissociate themselves from the jihadis before the world decides to write them off.

Posted by kEiThZ | Report as abusive

@ Till that does not end there will plenty more hafiz saeeds so on…. anyway i belive in inncoent untill proven guilty. Not to say i condone anyone or group or country killing inncoent people anywhere. But you pursumed saeed is my hero or so on…”
–Magic786

Magic786:

You are not only a bigot but lier too!

After Mumbai terror act you said “Death to India, long live LeT……”.

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive

Magic786:
liar, I mean.

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive

@Magic786, Keithz

Bottom line guys, Kashmir agitation and anti-India elements are a thinly veiled political lightening rod to radicalize Kashmiri’s into fighting with India.

This is the problem with Pakistani establishment, they are a bunch of thugs and liars and use terrorism to achieve their objectives. They have hijacked Islam and they have hijacked and Kashmir to fight with non-muslims in India.

If it wasn’t Kashmir, it would be Gujarat or some other “life and blood” struggle against non-muslims.

I do want to have good relations with Pakistani’s here, but it seems, that your Army, and the people at large, hate non muslims so much, that they are willing to warp history, distort the truth and fuel enmity, blame and hate at any cost, to bring their life purpose and meaning as Pakistani’s, as muslims and as human beings.

If Kashmiri’s want freedom, let them protest and start a a separatistism, jihad and successionism against Pakistan, who is occupying them. India Kashmir is a part of India, always will be and will never change.

The mystical muslim Ummah is just a political excuse to pick a fight with India over Kashmir. If there was no Kashmir, Pakistan would have created another Kashmir.

Pakistan and Pakistani’s are determined on the whole to keep India as an enemy. India was already dismembered once and most Pakistani’s keep forgetting that not too many generations ago, their forefathers were Hindus and were converted by the sword, beheaded and killed.

I am 100% sure that genetic profile mapping would show most Pakistani’s to be Hindus, biologically speaking. In fact Benazir Bhutto’s grandmother was a hindu!

We are family at the end of the day, but Pakistani’s view Hindus as animals and subhumans. Hindus and Indians do no view Pakistani’s in that manner, we do view you as troublesome and hateful and not willing to be honest, nor trustworthy.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive

Myra:

It is interesting to note that in what capacity Hafiz Saeed wants to have talks with India. Is he not a chief of a humanitarian organization JuD that builds schools and other purposes inside Pakistan? what does that has to with Kashmir?

In his interview to Al-Jazzera, Saeed says India always imposed wars on Pakistan and Pakistan never did so. Interestingly Pakistan’s former generals and air-chiefs disagree with this joker over who imposed wars on whom (google ex-air chief Asghar Ali Khan article).

Then he says:
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/the-ta masha-will-go-on/576345/

“We are not against composite dialogues. I ask Chidambaram to first come to Lahore before going to Islamabad and hold talks with me. I will tell him a solid solution to the problems between India and Pakistan,” said Saeed. “There is only one solution to all the problems–liberate Indian-held Kashmir. Otherwise the option of ‘jehad’ (holy war) is open for us,” Saeed said.

—As if Jehad is not happening already.

“He also warned India that the liberation of the erstwhile state of Hyderabad was also on the JuD’s agenda.”

—This is one of the reasons kashmiris should be careful in whom they support. All these demands are further reasons that will not motivate India in meaningful talks. That’s the drawback with contract killers as opposed to real indigenous freedom fighters. If everyday blowing up bodies could not solve world’s problems, this kindergarten Jehad will do nothing.

I am happy to see some Kashmiris, especially in India who can see this and still can say they would like to be with India because of their kids who have better opportunities in many fields than in Pakistan. It is not easy to say so in the thick of things.

Then there are others who fail to see that Hafiz Saeed and his goons are Pakistani citizens, nothing to do with kashmir and are political toys of Pakistan, used in the name of religion to take revenge against 1971.

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive

I don’t think it’s Hafiz Saeed himself who wants talks. He just said he’s supportive of these talks.

Myra,

In your long career, have you ever come across work that analyzes and captures how much of the insurgency in J&K is locally based and how much public support there is among Kashmiris for this insurgency? It would make for some fascinating reading.

I’d also be interested in knowing if the trends in violence is solely related to political events (India-Pakistan dialogue) or are there other factors (for example, socio-economic performance of Kashmiris over the years).

I am not convinced that the insurgency is entirely a locally driven one. But nor am I convinced that Kashmiris are all too happy to live within the Indian union. I am curious to see if any of these sentiments have been captured with statistics.

Posted by kEiThZ | Report as abusive

@I don’t think it’s Hafiz Saeed himself who wants talks. He just said he’s supportive of these talks.”
Posted by kEiThZ

“…..I ask Chidambaram to first come to Lahore before going to Islamabad and hold talks with me.”
Says Hafiz saeed

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive

http://www.rand.org/commentary/2001/09/0 1/JIR.html

More intrinsically, the nature of the Kashmir conflict has been transformed from what was originally a secular, locally- based struggle (conducted via the Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front – JKLF) to one that is now largely carried out by foreign militants and rationalised in pan-Islamic religious terms.

With the exception of HM, all of the main organisations currently active in Kashmir are non-indigenous, composed mostly of Punjabi mercenaries from Pakistan. Indicative of this were the 1,102 foreign insurgents killed in Kashmir between 1998 and the end of January 2001 – 63% more than those slain in the eight years from 1990 to 1997. Most of those who come to fight define their objectives in both local and global terms, with the rhetorical enemy specified as any state perceived to be anti-Islamic.

Islamabad’s backing for these groups revolves around the perennial conflict with India – a militarily, economically and demographically superior state viewed as posing a fundamental threat to Pakistan’s long-term viability and integrity.

Sponsoring militancy in Kashmir is regarded as a relatively cheap and effective way of offsetting existing power symmetries (essentially through the philosophy of a ‘war of a thousand cuts’) while simultaneously creating a bulwark of instability along the country’s vulnerable southern flank. Both are considered vital to ensuring that Pakistan has sufficient strategic depth to undertake a protracted conventional war on the sub-continent, should this ever become necessary.

Risks for Pakistan

While Islamabad may view involvement in Kashmir as a viable way of provoking unrest in India, the policy carries definite risks. In fact, it is no longer apparent that the army or ISI exercise complete control over the proxies they have helped to create, some of which are now openly talking about fomenting a fundamentalist revolution in Pakistan itself.

Should the insurgency in Kashmir end, there is a perceptible risk that groups such as al Badr, LeT and JeM will re-direct their energies and attention to the pursuit of this very objective. Indeed this may now be the main reason why Islamabad continues to infiltrate militants across the disputed line of control: to keep them busy and, therefore, out of Pakistan.

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive

http://www.rand.org/pubs/testimonies/200 9/RAND_CT320.pdf

Antecedents and Implications of the November 2008 Lashkare-
Taiba (LeT) Attack Upon Several Targets in the Indian Mega-City of Mumbai

C. CHRISTINE FAIR

Testimony presented before the House Homeland Security Committee, Subcommittee on Transportation Security and Infrastructure Protection on
March 11, 2009

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive

“WE”!!! How are you so sure that Hindu blood is not running through your veins!” IS – I can assure you it is NOT now, even if it was. But I guess since there are no family trees and so on or any records so unable to give a confirmative answer and apologies for that. However maybe you can enlighten me on this one.

Posted by Magic786 | Report as abusive

“If you are a man enough say “death to Pakistan”. If your reason is Indian atrocities against Kashmiris, same is true for Pakistan against Kashmiris in POK.”

So now you are spoon feeding me, to say what you want ooh.. put it this way its not the Pakistani soldiers that are raping our women folks, murdering our young men, infact we only welcome the pakistani soldiers since they are on the LOC to make sure more kashmir is not occupied by your coward army. We fully welcome them with open hearts however when india fulfills its part of the comitment the pak forces will auto be brought back.

To highlight the point Pakistan is occupying how about get the indians out meet your part and then what options will pakistan have. Maybe thats the only way to find out their true intentions too. By exposing that maybe you can pursuade me that they are as much occupying forces as is indians.

But indians know too well they will never meet the condiction set out they know too well, after occupying the kashmir valley muredring over 70,000 kashmiris, not even single kashmiri will approve india. So why would india want to put itself in that situation?

“If it does come to pass, you can bet that virtually every Kashmiri pro-independence will be written off as trouble-makers or terrorists. Far better for Kashmiris to turn away from violence and dissociate themselves from the jihadis before the world decides to write them off.”

Keiths… nowdays almost any conflict where a muslims are involved they are already labeled terrorists e.g. checnya, gaza, kashmir so on. We dont realy care what you westerners think as you guys are the one that set double standards and occupied lands that did not even belong to you and now want to teach us what oeace is. Go to hell all i care mate!

Posted by Magic786 | Report as abusive

“And yes that really is what it looks like from outside the region. After all, can you explain why terror attacks in J&K seem to ebb and flow with the trend of Indo-Pakistani relations?”

Simply giving a chance for the talks between the two countries to work offcourse. The last thing we kashmris want is to disrupt the talks between the two neighours as we have enough other players who will try to commit a terrorist act to give india excuse to come off the talking table.

All we want is India to be sincere and to acknowledge that kashmiris do not want to live under their OCCUPATIONS…NEVER!!! How hard is that to understand and if you have any dought simply travel to the valley and speak to the people and witness what is going on.. and what the locals want there and only then you might get convinced.

Hope common sense prevails and the metting on Thu between the two neighours goes well and as kashmiri we only wish the two get on wiht each other.

Since we know India is not going to move and carry on with its oetty excuses neither does Pakistan is any hurry tomove. The only real people whi are sufering are the kashmiris on both side of the LOC another fact who is sufferin gmore and we all know that!

Why not just make the LOC irrelavent and have joint security overall commitment from both countries. It would be perfect for us to be able to see the families, relatives who have been divided for so long. Also indian and pakistani can start to enjoy the beauty of the valley but that is a simple kashmiris wishfull thinking!

Posted by Magic786 | Report as abusive

@ Keith:

“Have you ever come across work that analyzes and captures how much of the insurgency in J&K is locally based and how much public support there is among Kashmiris for this insurgency? It would make for some fascinating reading.”

I presume you have read Curfewed Nights by Basharat Peer?

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?u rl=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywo rds=curfewed+nights+basharat+peer&x=9&y= 22

My sense is that the Kashmir revolt has been both internally and externally driven. I’ve not seen anything that actually quantifies how much each factor plays a role.

Posted by Myra.MacDonald | Report as abusive

Rajeeve…

“I am happy to see some Kashmiris, especially in India who can see this and still can say they would like to be with India because of their kids who have better opportunities in many fields than in Pakistan.”

Exactly you are only happy with the kashmiris that either you have bought out like the dummy abdulas or the once do not utter a word aginst the brutalties of your coward forces.

We label them as traitors!! Not our heroes!

Anyone who speaks against the Occupation is a terrorist in your eyes. That tells me how biased, hollow minded, and anti kashmiri you are. It reminds of Mr Bush “either you with us or aginst us” only different he was a presdent of worlds most powerful country and you are…. but than maybe i ll offend you!

Not that I care, especially when in your eyes Kashmir is all rosy under the indian occupation. Just be a bit more mature and manly and accept the fact that your indian forces have commited crimes which have been exposed by various human rights groups. They are not exactly saints are they lets admit the fact first.

I have never heard not even one idiot ever even admiting that indian army has commited crimes aginst the poeple of kashmir. Why NOT?!!

Let me assure you what happens in Azad Kashmir is nothing compared to IOK and thats also a fact. For someone like Keith who seems to have an intrest why not actully go an see for yourself visit the occupied valley and than also visit the Azad part. After all seeing is believing than getting brainwashed by idiots.

Rajeeve but I do agree there might be better opportunites for our kids. Sincerely would you even look that far when your house is burned, trespassed, girls getting raped by your forces and than they make excuses they drowned including your dummy adminstration.

Any comments?

Posted by Magic786 | Report as abusive

Myra and Keith:

@Have you ever come across work that analyzes and captures how much of the insurgency in J&K is locally based “
–Based upon the number of groups, it is not hard to say that most of the insurgency is Pakistan based (mostly Punjab) and only some is indigenous at this point.

As this RAND article says:
“More intrinsically, the nature of the Kashmir conflict has been transformed from what was originally a secular, locally- based struggle (conducted via the Jammu Kashmir Liberation Front – JKLF) to one that is now largely carried out by foreign militants and rationalised in pan-Islamic religious terms.

“With the exception of HM, all of the main organisations currently active in Kashmir are non-indigenous, composed mostly of Punjabi mercenaries from Pakistan.”

—–Those groups or leaders which were not consistent with Pakistan’s political aims were neutered.

@and how much public support there is among Kashmiris for this insurgency? It would make for some fascinating reading”
–This one is hard to answer.

Separately, I have asked earlier whether there is any information on Azad Kashmir? There was one Dawn article recently that called Azad Kashmir a living hell and UN human rights groups saying the same in different words.

Reuter blogger Sheikh Mushtaq has not posted anything on Azad Kashmir in Pakistan and is stuck to Indian Kashmir. Perhaps he has not been to Azad Kashmir. Is it accessibility problem or is it an issue of media behaving that India is the only left to address UNSCR.

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive

Magic786:

@However maybe you can enlighten me on this one.”
–Enlightenment is an experience and I cannot feed you. My point was that you be more tolerant to non-Islam religions or even to atheists since you have no idea what hell your Kaafir ancestors lived (I hope it was peaceful conversion). But you are sitting at roof top yelling “WE Muslims did not ………”. Having said that, you still need to respect the religion ((or lack their of) of your ancestors, at least, if nothing else. Non-Muslim factor in your blood is going to stay for million generations. There is a solution, just accept that there is nothing wrog with Hinduism or any-“ism”.

This takes me to ask you for 3rd time about the SDPI link on how hate material is part of Pakistan school curriculum. The fact is there so I need no clarification but it is agood idea to exchange information. May be you are one of those few students who remained untouched by hate.

@Keiths… nowdays almost any conflict where a muslims are involved they are already labeled terrorists e.g. checnya, gaza, kashmir so on. We dont realy care what you westerners think as you guys are the one that set double standards and occupied lands that did not even belong to you and now want to teach us what oeace is.”
—- talking about double standards, how about the fact that Baluchistan was occupied by Pakistan without any basis. India has the accession document and mass support of Kashmiris if you look at them showing middle finger to Pakistan’s operation Gibralatar in 1965. Explain to us why Baloch shoud be labeled as terrorists by Pakistan and also those for Baltistan. Same for Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan who hated Pakistan more than he did Brits for asking Pakhthunistan via non-violence and was thrown for 15yrs in prison. How one can explain the double standards of Pakistan. It is not that few terrorists get up. There is mass support in most cases.

@ So now you are spoon feeding me, to say what you want ooh.. put it this way its not the Pakistani soldiers that are raping our women folks, murdering our young men, infact we only welcome the pakistani soldiers since they are on the LOC to make sure more kashmir is not occupied by your coward army.”
—This is not called spoon feeding. I am challenging you why I should not label you one with double standards. I hear what you say about Indian Army. “rapist” and all that. You are saying as if the Indian soldier goes on duty for 10hrs and rapes 20 women a day. Have you looked into your terrorist brothers faking as Indian soldiers and doing the stuff? Pakistan Army raped their own in E. Pakistan. But I hear a lot of praise in your voice for these “rapist” Pakistani soldiers. What’s up? Double standards?

The you say:
@ infact we only welcome the pakistani soldiers since they are on the LOC to make sure more kashmir is not occupied by your coward army.”
– Are you stable or not? Earleir you said you are not for India and Pakistan. Now I hear the opposite. Get a grip man. I wont make stories or give you Indian link. Let me give you material to tickle you grey matter. Here is ex-Pak Air Marshal Asghar Khan who says:
“The fact is that in the last 60 years of our existence, India has not started hostilities against Pakistan unless provoked to do so, or until we created conditions, as we did in 1971 in East Pakistan, for India to interfere militarily….”

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn -content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/colu mnists/16-ardeshir-cowasjee-wise-words-f rom-an-old-warrior-hs-04

BTW, this is not opinion. This is a fact.

you will find much more on this right from horse’s mouth—the Pakistani generals. It is hard to get used to facts with heavy appetizer of lies fed to you.

Pakistan Army is screwing you 24/7 and you do not even know. All you say is rape…rape by India. It will be wrong if I say that such incidents do not happen but all this is overblown. If some Indians have not been to Sringar, you also have not been to Shopian.

Pakistan gave Kashmir to China and tomorrow will sell you too if they need. I do not hear a word. Double standards?
As if this was not enough you say: “Since we know India is not going to move and carry on with its oetty excuses neither does Pakistan is any hurry tomove.”
——What a thing to say as a Kashmiri! I do not see India’s hurry. They got nothing to gain. They have majority of Kashmir already and people in the valley, whether they hate or love India, have little motivation to live in Pakistan with even Muslims now getting killed in this mayhem.

Stuck with smaller issues, people like you lose track of the main goal and can be easily side-tracked as Pakistan is doing. Pakistan is trying to take revenge for 1971 and they failed in Punjab, failed in 1965 in Kashmir (Operation Gibraltar) and already are a model for how to fail as a country. You want to be with them and worse you think they are fighting for you. Yeah sure!!!

@Anyone who speaks against the Occupation is a terrorist in your eyes. That tells me how biased, hollow minded, and anti kashmiri you are. It reminds of Mr Bush “either you with us or aginst us” only different he was a presdent of worlds most powerful country and you are…. but than maybe i ll offend you!

–NO, not everyone. This begs the question who are the freedom fighters. Expamin to me the case of TTP Mehsuds asking for radical Islamic rule in SWAT, the place they live and Pakistan is bombing them by planes.

Back to Kashmir: If the guys are Kashmiris, I am ready to call them insurgents (not freedom fighters yet) since UN has a mechanism existing for political solution. If you are Kashmiri, get off your ass than asking Punjabis and I will call you an insurgent not terrorist. Any other one like Pakistani Punjabi or any foreign group, who is non-Kashmiri or takes support from Pakistan, kills innocent people anywhere is a terrorist, not a freedom fighter for me. Then may be you got explain Baluchistan, Batistan, Bacha Khan’s Pakhthunistan, E.pakistanis demand for a separate nation and were instead raped and killed in millions (you clapping for PA). Freedom is not cheap and Pakistan will not support freedom —-Azad Kashmir constitution is evidence. But what would you know since you do not even know that Kashmiris asking for free Kashmir are not supported by Pakistan. Only those groups from Pakistan are supported, clearly Pakistan wants take control over this terrorism.

@ Rajeeve but I do agree there might be better opportunites for our kids. Sincerely would you even look that far when your house is burned, trespassed, girls getting raped by your forces and than they make excuses they drowned including your dummy adminstration.”
–I have seen some Kashmiris giving this reason. Perhaps they are the ones who did not vote for separatist in the election. Even the separatist leader who lost election could not say that this was not a fair election. Not this time. 20 yrs ago yes.

How about a word on the rubber stamp Azad Kashmir govt?
Read about the insurgency in Kashmir and see how very carefully the groups which sought independence were not given support by Pakistan and its Punjabi killers were let loose to spoil the struggle and this mess.

Look I am not Kashmiri, all I can give is free advice. Sometimes it comes from across LoC from non-Muslims, take it: DROP YOUR DOUBLE STANDARDS!

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive

ALI:

Addition:

If you are Kashmiri, get off your ass than asking Punjabis and I will call you an insurgent not terrorist—-AS LONG AS YOU DO NOT KILL INNOCENTS OR SUPPORT ANYONE DOING THAT. GO FOR THE MORE POWERFUL ONES–THE ARMY. Take oath to not hurt unarmed. Perhaps you have not been taught lessons in Indian freedom struggle and focused on Mohammed Bin Qasim.

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive

Somewhat related article if you like to read. articlhttp://rupeenews.com/2010/02/23/in dia-a-threat-to-itself-and-to-neighbors/ e:

Posted by babag | Report as abusive

Babag:

@Somewhat related article if you like to read”

—It is hard not to breath for full 10minutes–such is the stinking articles from Moin Ansari with his paisa value ideology.

It is not easy to build credibility and this man has zero.
Do you have a credible source.

Please do point out when Indians or I post some propaganda articles. Hardly helps anyone. If I were you I will not post such articles. This guy is not only propaganda specialist but cheap too if you notice his articles.

It is your call.

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive

Babag:

Moin Ansari’s hypothesis:

“To every action there is bound to be a reaction and the nearly 15 percent segment of Indian population i.e. Muslims, humiliated and left at the bottom of social heap, has responded in kind to seek retribution. Despite widely held perception of the secular ethos of the Indian democracy, Muslims are mired in mass poverty, lack of education and is mostly excluded from the pale of a Shining India; becoming victim of a rising wave of Hindutva driven extremism.”

–So he justifies the violence. Great job!!!

Anyways I thought you might be interested in a more credible source, if you do not know already, Pervez Hoodbhoy.

This is what PH says on Moin Ansari’s crap:

“But, although Muslims form 12% of India’s population, I met only a few Muslim scientists in leading Indian research institutes and universities. Discrimination
against Muslims does not appear to be the dominant cause. A professor at Jamia told me that an overwhelming number of Muslim students were inclined towards seeking easier (and more lucrative) professions in spite of special incentives offered to them at his university. In general, Muslims in India appear more modern and secular than in Pakistan.”

Click for more:
http://www.countercurrents.org/ipk-hoodh oy190205.htm

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive

Magic786,

Quit speaking for Indian Kashmiris because you don’t represent them. At the end of the day, you’re just a Pakistani living in Pakistan occupied Kashmir, so stop talking as if you have a moral right to speak for all Kashmiris because you don’t. Also, cut the facade of acting as a neutral kashmiri who’s neither for India & nor for Pakistan because you’re anything but neutral. Just like other Pakistanis, you have been injected with a steady dose of anti-India virus since birth & you gladly swallow the fallacious propaganda which is constantly spoon-fed by your military establishment. Nobody is denying that there might have been some unwarranted isolated acts committed by some Indian soldiers in Kashmir but the numbers are nowhere near the grossly exaggerated nonsensical claims made by your military establishment, which so-called Kashmiris like you happily buy without any substantiation, whatsoever.

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive

“Quit speaking for Indian Kashmiris because you don’t represent them”

Indian kashmiris?! Never heard that its either indian, pakistani or kashmiri no such thing as indian kashmiri or pakistani kashmiri… just an idiots wishfull thinking which you are entitled to by all means after all dreaming is not a sin is it?

“you have been injected with a steady dose of anti-India virus since birth & you gladly swallow the fallacious propaganda which is constantly spoon-fed by your military establishment”

Totally wrong agian! If I was born in Azad Kashmir and educated in London where did the PA get a chance to inject me with this anti india dose must a mosaad like operation for the ISI to do that without even me knowing.

You want to know whi is more anti india or anti pakistan simply switch the star plus and watch them or your general media and the hatered they spread via the news or via the movies and so on. Also watch the Pak media news and one min be neutral and tell me with hand on your heart who is more infected? You will know for yourself and I have been back to my homeland and dont see anything on walla or on general that portrays india as such a monstor which you lot think we make out.

I dont hate hindus or anyother religion up to you believe what you want end of the day you are going in your grave and I am in mine.

I couldnt stop laughing when rajeeve informed me that Benazer grand daughter was a hindu? lol even though her mother was iranian or persian? even though I believe the blood line for this part is similar.

The sooner you understand that Kashmri is for kashmiris the better and hope it doesnt fall on deaf ears for sake of India.

Posted by Magic786 | Report as abusive

@Magic786,

If you need a family tree, just look outside your street, the peoples faces and look at many Indians, we don’t look that different.

What is really funny about some Pakistani’s is that they are willfully so blind to assert that they are Arabic in their roots than Hindu. I think it is more likely that Pakistani’s are descended from space aliens than having most of their genetic makeup from Arabs or other Muslim invaders of the subcontinent.

So…my friend Magic, you are hindu, biologically speaking, live with it.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive

“Please do point out when Indians or I post some propaganda articles.”
To name a few: Rajveevk, G-W, Mortal etc. You might not have posted any articles, to me you are just indian propagandists Who portraying official indian point of view. No insult intended.

Moin Ansari or Pervez Hoodbhoy, they both have different views and both have plenty of following. As far as Magic is concerned, he certainly has his views and every right to express them like you have.

Posted by babag | Report as abusive

“So…my friend Magic, you are hindu, biologically speaking, live with it.”

Firstly I am NOT your friend or anyones who condones the killing of innocent Kashmiris especially by your brave army who kills armless young men in the valley, rape women who only crime is they ventured out to get some water or to their schools.

I have never said I am an Arab yes I look like a south asian. I can say indians look like us or vise versa beside the point. But my ancesstors could have been bhudists or even athiests and so on.

But the fact is NEVER did hindu bloods flowed in my vains neither will it ever! Be assurred and I am proud to be a KASHMIRI MUSLIM! Just as much you i hope so proud to be hindu idiot!

“If you need a family tree, just look outside your street, the peoples faces and look at many Indians, we don’t look that different.”

They look white or europeans actually… Kashmiris are more fair beside their religion unlike your madras idiots blacked out like tinted Hummer lol.

Have you heard the saying “treasures get burried and rubbish gets burned”. Indications why Christian / Jews and Muslims or the people of book get buried and the worshippers of stone, monkeys, cows, snakes and so on will burn whenthey die and fater. I arrest my case!!!

Posted by Magic786 | Report as abusive

Magic786: “I am proud to be a KASHMIRI MUSLIM! Just as much you i hope so proud to be hindu idiot!”

Kashmiri Muslim vs Hindu Idiot.

Please clarify which part of you is the idiot equivalent of your Hindu counterpart – the Kashmiri or the Muslim.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive

Magic786,

@ “Indian kashmiris?! Never heard that its either indian, pakistani or kashmiri no such thing as indian kashmiri or pakistani kashmiri… just an idiots wishfull thinking”

Although, you don’t seem to have the intellectual aptitude to unbderstand this, lemme make an attempt anyways. There certainly are Indian Kashmiris & Pakistani Kashmiris just as there are Indian Punjabis & Pakistani Punjabis and Indian Sindhis & Pakistani Sindhis. Kashmir is not an independent nation & so, people living in J & K are Indian Kashmiris & the ones living in PoK are Pakistani. The passport of an Indian Kashmiri says ‘Republic of India’ & not ‘Kashmir’.

@ “Totally wrong agian! If I was born in Azad Kashmir and educated in London where did the PA get a chance to inject me with this anti india dose”

Your comments & the language used therein, clearly underlines the kind of ‘education’ you’ve received (or lack, thereof). Anyways, I’ve been going to the UK long enough to come across Mirpurias like you, living in the ghettos of Bradford & Birmingham and living off Government benefits, while despising the very country they live in. Several British studies have concluded that 2nd & 3rd generation Pakistanis living there are more radicalized & out of touch with reality than the new arrivals. You may have lived in the UK but you are no better than your madrasah bred brother living a Pakistani village. In fact, in many ways you are worse because unlike him, you had a chance to better yourself but flushed it down the drain.

@ “I couldnt stop laughing when rajeeve informed me that Benazer grand daughter was a hindu? lol even though her mother was iranian or persian?”

Forget Benezir, the father of Pakistan & the man you call Qaid-e-Azam, Jinnah had Hindu blood in his veins. His grandfather was Poonja Gokuldas Meghji,a Hindu Bhatia Rajput from Paneli village in Gondal state in Kathiawar. Jinnah’s ancestors were Hindu Rajput who converted to Islam, sometime in the mid 1800s.

@ “Kashmiris are more fair beside their religion unlike your madras idiots blacked out like tinted Hummer lol”

The software of the computer, you’re currently using, was most likely written by a blacked out Indian Madrasi. Your comment indicates your shallow bigoted thinking & your infantile IQ. These dark Madras idiots that you talk about constitute a major part of the workforce of the silicon valley & throughout the western world they are highly respected doctors, engineers & scientists. What is the contribution of Pakistanis like you? Driving cabs & selling sheesh kabab on the streets?
Anyone with a little bit of brains would rather be a dark Madrasi than a fair Pakistani. Go ask you brothers who pose as Indians in order to gain some respect & to get away from the shame of being called a Pakistani.

PS: I can’t waste anymore time on a deranged juvenile delinquent like yourself, so don’t bother responding. Adios!

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive

@Magic786

—–”I have never said I am an Arab yes I look like a south asian. I can say indians look like us or vise versa beside the point. But my ancesstors could have been bhudists or even athiests and so on.

But the fact is NEVER did hindu bloods flowed in my vains neither will it ever! Be assurred and I am proud to be a KASHMIRI MUSLIM! Just as much you i hope so proud to be hindu idiot!”

If you are born in South Asia and look like south Asian you have Hindu blood in you. Hindus are living in this part of the world centuries before Muhammad was even born. Hindu philosphy date back to 1500 BC. And Buddism was started by Sidharth Gautam buddh, also a Hindu. There were no athiests, before this science age everybody had a god, no matter what you call him/her/it.

“They look white or europeans actually… Kashmiris are more fair beside their religion unlike your madras idiots blacked out like tinted Hummer lol.”

Kashmiri pandits are fair and they look like “Europeans” but they are Hindus. Punjabis have fair complexion as well. What do you say about Bangladeshis ? they are not fair so they don;t belong to Islam ? wait a minute they wanted and get a separate nation so they dont make good muslims ;-) while you failed :-(

Point is, religion is above color of your skin, and categorizing all Hindus as Madrasi is plain stupidity. Madras has a lot of Muslim population and they look like Madrasi hindus.

——-”Have you heard the saying “treasures get burried and rubbish gets burned”. Indications why Christian / Jews and Muslims or the people of book get buried and the worshippers of stone, monkeys, cows, snakes and so on will burn whenthey die and fater. I arrest my case!!!”

Human dead body is always rubbish no matter what religion it belong to, so it has to burn. If you don’t agree give me a single good reason to keep this “Treasure” and if like some other pakistanis here, you have animosity towards logic, next time keep your dead grand parents in your closet with pack of Moth balls.

Considering that earth has limited land, you will soon seen Muslims getting buried in “Standing” Position, and it will look like they are lining up for their turn to be called in heaven or hell, depending upon who supported Idiots of India or Ghazis of Pakistan over Kashmir. And I am sure according to you 170 Million Muslims of India will go to hell because they chose to live with stupid Hindus.

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive

“There certainly are Indian Kashmiris & Pakistani Kashmiris just as there are Indian Punjabis & Pakistani Punjabis and Indian Sindhis & Pakistani Sindhis.”

Ok on that logic fair enough but I think thats more to do with defining which side of Kashmir a kashmiris is living. So kashmiri living under inidan Ocupation would say I live IOK and Kashmris living inAzad kashmir would say living in Azad Kashmir.

“Ifyou are born in South Asia and look like south Asian you have Hindu blood in you. Hindus are living in this part of the world centuries before Muhammad was even born”

Firstly welcome back to work punjabi, surely you are another one the pay roll of indian goverment and been called up to do bit of over time. Since there is myself and as I ma sure you are aware the useuall idiots who for sure must be on the payroll to forwards indian government line. Fair enough as patriotic idiots dont expect anything less.

Firstly what is hindu? I am a hindu! Shocked arnt you!
Hindu is simply word that was used by the Arabs sailors to descibe this part of the world. So yes talking in geographical terms i am a hindu,talking in religious terms I am Muslim and by my ethnic identity i am a Kashmiri.

“And I am sure according to you 170 Million Muslims of India will go to hell because they chose to live with stupid Hindus.”

Not at all… let me also mak ethis clear I dont have anything agianst Hindus, Buddas, Sikhs and so on. I belive in live and let live simple as that. Anyway who am I to judge you are anyother muslim or non-muslim as I will have to answer for my actions and surely so will you according to my beliefs. I respect what you believe or want to.

“orget Benezir, the father of Pakistan & the man you call Qaid-e-Azam, Jinnah had Hindu blood in his veins.”

Forgett Benazir ok since you got it wrong so forget it. I l accept that however if our Quaid had hindu blood so what? That should have made him more sympathetic to hindu brothers but they left him with no choice. As you are aware he was part of congress and all he wanted Muslim intrest safeguarded knowing that after centuries of Muslim rule. Hindus wwould want to get one back and put themuslimon the back seat and the progress of indian muslims in india is indication of that. That another story… why did not your gandhi g assured Jinnah of muslims intrests. Must have had some sinsters plans and the great hindustan dreams went with it…

Posted by Magic786 | Report as abusive

@Magic786,

Trust me Magic, prove it to yourself that you don’t have Hindu blood.

Go and get a genetic profiling done, they are not that expensive. You can get it done in any major India, Pakistani or U.S. or western city. It will show that you DO IN FACT have HINDU genes. Unless you are blonde and blue eyed…you are HINDU, genetically.

Please share the good news with the news media and all of the masjid, when you go there. The whole point of this exercise is to show that we are biological family. Islam, does not change your genetic material and origins.

You are more genetically related to Hindus than you are to Arabs, regardless of the book you read. That is a fact.

Personally, I am not a big religious zealot or fanatic, but I am not atheist either, I treat all people I meet the same way, whether their name is Mike, Mohammed, Eli, Rajeev, or whatever. I don’t care damn how they prepare their food or what they worship or how they worship, those things do not define you as a human being….the things that define you as a human being is how you think, act and behave and what is in your heart. Choice of Religion or some sort of identity does not make you better than anybody.

Oh…by the way, ….muslims do actually do rock worship..don’t forget about the Kabha Stone during Hajj. I think it is ok that muslims choose to revere the Kabha stone as important, I do would not criticize how you worship and neither should you.

Personally I don’t think the great prophet, peace be with him, would condone Pakistani’s talking against their hindu brothers in such a derogatory fashion.

Please reform your behavior, it is racist, supremecist and hate charged and has no place in this world.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive

@Magic786

—”Firstly what is hindu? I am a hindu! Shocked arnt you!
Hindu is simply word that was used by the Arabs sailors to descibe this part of the world. So yes talking in geographical terms i am a hindu,talking in religious terms I am Muslim and by my ethnic identity i am a Kashmiri.”

Knowing that you are a Hindu does not shocks me or anybody here, you must be shocked by this new revelation that you have biologically you have Hindu Blood, let me shock you more, “Hinduism” is a religion practiced by a billion people wordwide and Arabs called the people of this region Hindus because EVERYBODY practiced same religion.

—–”Firstly welcome back to work punjabi, surely you are another one the pay roll of indian goverment and been called up to do bit of over time”

Nobody here gets paid for writing on reuters (Excluding Myra and Sanjeev). We have regular day jobs and only comment because we have interests in India. We speak about Pakistan becauase terrorist attacks are generated from land of “Pure”, we don’t care what religion you follow in Pakistan or if you have systematically killed Minorities including hindus, unlike pakistan, India do not claim to be a representative for all the Hindus in the world. At end of the day religion is just a name for faith in god. If you want to call your god with a different name go ahead do it. We don’t mind if you want to see you god in Monkey, Cows or Idols, or even if you don’t want to see your god anywhere at all.

But the version of Islam you practice in Pakistan has a superiority complex and hate for people who name their god differently. You say Hindus are idiots because they worship idols, how do you see Muslims throwing Stones at a imaginary Satan ?

If you can see EVIL in a stone pillar whats wrong in seeing GOOD in a stone statue ??

——”let me also mak ethis clear I dont have anything agianst Hindus, Buddas, Sikhs and so on. I belive in live and let live simple as that. Anyway who am I to judge you are anyother muslim or non-muslim as I will have to answer for my actions and surely so will you according to my beliefs. I respect what you believe or want to.”

Your action speaks otherwise, you have addressed Hindus as “Stupid”, “Idiots”, “Worshippers of Cows and Monkeys” and Latest is “Madrasi”, you also said Hindus are “rubbish” because they burn the dead bodies. You did not give the reason how Muslims should be considered “treasure”

Your try to suddenly Pretend to be a goodboy is miserable. Stick to your point that you hate non-muslims.

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive

Moin Ansari or Pervez Hoodbhoy, they both have different views and both have plenty of following. As far as Magic is concerned, he certainly has his views and every right to express them like you have.
Posted by babag

Babag: I know Moin Ansari or Pervez Hoodbhoy’s views already; so no point saying they have different. What are your views is important? Do you buy Moin or Pervez?

@“Please do point out when Indians or I post some propaganda articles.”
To name a few: Rajveevk, G-W, Mortal etc. You might not have posted any articles, to me you are just indian propagandists Who portraying official indian point of view. No insult intended.”

——Sir, I asked you tell us the crappy link we sent you that you think is trash. I am not asking you to just name whenever you fancy to name a person just because you think so.

Also, many are not Indian view, but global view about Pakistan.

_____________

Magic786:

This is getting no where, as expected. I do not know why.

Why you have not been able to explain your double standards (Read my posts please)? If you do not have a point, feel free to be quiet.

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive

Magic786/ALI:

“I couldnt stop laughing when rajeeve informed me that Benazer grand daughter was a hindu? lol”

–Crap. I never said that. Do not engage with too many people if you cannot do that.

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive

“Magic786/ALI:

“I couldnt stop laughing when rajeeve informed me that Benazer grand daughter was a hindu? lol”

–Crap. I never said that. Do not engage with too many people if you cannot do that.”

–>

http://www.indiatime.com/2007/12/28/top- 10-little-known-facts-about-benazir-bhut to/

7. Benazir’s grandmother was a Hindu. Grandpa Shahnawaz had married Lakhi Bai, a Hindu beauty who converted to Islam (and became Khursheed Begum) before marriage, but the rest of Lakhi Bai’s family remain Hindu to date and live peacefully in India.

–>The word was grandmother MAGIC786ALI, not grand daughter and that was I who noted that.

Please pass on the fact that Hindu Blood was ruling Pakistan at one time, that being Benazir Bhutto, grand daughter of a hindu.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive

Rajeev,

At times I am convinced you cannot ever make peace with a people so evil, so disingenous, so pychologically deranged and backwards, that is my opinion.

There is an creed in Pakistan, evil to the bone that knows only lying, death, genocide, theft, political propaganda, corruption and retrograde ness…that being standing still or moving backwards and on top of all that they have perverted Islam for their own Geopolitical gains against India.

It is a pity that the Sufi’s, Ahmadiyas or Shiites are not in Power in Pakistan. I would rather have Iran as a neighbour than Pakistan. Although I don’t care for the Islamic revolution, the Iranians are a well-thought out and wise people who are refined and have some gentleness about them.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive

GW:

Turkey is clear case of a liberal Muslim nation and on the right track. I was talking to my Indian friend from India, married to an Iranian living in USA that leaving Ahmedinaj….joker and the Islamic revolution out, Iran has lots of positives, many contributions to boast off, a number of scholars, women have higher place than anywhere else in the Muslim world, Iranians are modern people and doing well abroad. While they are stuck with crackpot Ahmedinajad, they are making efforts–a 12 mile human chain by Mousavi-supporters is no small example of their effort when one considers the system in place.

Pakistan is a lost case. It had a great chance since it started from scratch, which can be positive in many ways. Look at Turkey and look at Pakistan. can it be any worse than this? There is always room below and the top. So I won’t make a bet. But Pakistan lost its way very soon after 1947–62rs are gone but nation still talks which political system to have!!! Astonishing that educated middle class is the one that is the culprit and hungry for the fodder of PA/ISI and cannot see that PA is the single reason that has landed Pakistan in trouble. They simply do not know where they belong—-should they turn towards Arabs or towards Indian subcontinent. Pakistani Army/ISO has made the nation slave to its own crooked policies. Confusion about the system has created vacuum that is taken up very efficiently by Islamic radicals—TTP is one of them.

It is a simple case of national identity crisis. Pakistanis know there is a problem but everyone has his/her own diagnosis. Those with the right one are shouting in vain. Allah Malik!

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive