New report accuses Pakistan’s ISI of backing Afghan insurgents

June 13, 2010

us soldiersAccording to a new report published by the London School of Economics, Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) agency not only funds and trains Taliban fighters in Afghanistan but is officially represented on the movement’s leadership council, giving it significant influence over operations.

The ISI has long been accused of backing the Taliban – an accusation Pakistan denies, saying this would make no sense when it is already fighting a bloody campaign against Islamist militants at home. But the report is worth reading for its wealth of detail on the perceptions held by Taliban commanders interviewed in the field. You can see the Reuters story on the report here and the full document (pdf) here.

The report, based on interviews with Taliban commanders, former senior Taliban ministers and Western and Afghan security officials, says research strongly suggested support for the Taliban was the “official policy” of the ISI. ”Pakistan appears to be playing a double-game of astonishing magnitude,” it says.  Interviews with Taliban commanders ”suggest that Pakistan continues to give extensive support to the insurgency in terms of funding, munitions and supplies.”

“These accounts were corroborated by former Taliban ministers, a Western analyst and a senior U.N. official based in Kabul, who said the Taliban largely depend on funding from the ISI and groups in Gulf countries,” the report, which was dismissed by Pakistani officials as spurious and unfounded, says.

Almost all of the Taliban commanders interviewed in the report believed the ISI was represented on the Quetta Shura, the Taliban’s supreme leadership council which Washington says is based in Pakistan. “Interviews strongly suggest that the ISI has representatives on the (Quetta) Shura, either as participants or observers, and the agency is thus involved at the highest level of the movement.”

“Pakistan’s apparent involvement in a double-game of this scale could have major geopolitical implications and could even provoke US counter-measures. However, the powerful role of the ISI, and parts of the Pakistani military, suggests that progress against the Afghan insurgency, or towards political engagement, requires their support. The only sure way to secure such cooperation is to address the fundamental causes of Pakistan’s insecurity, especially its latent and enduring conflict with India,” it says.

As discussed many times on this blog, most recently here, Pakistan is unlikely to act decisively against the Afghan Taliban without reassurances of a scaling back of India’s presence in Afghanistan.  It may have some ability to convince Afghan Taliban leaders to join peace talks by leaning on those who are based in Pakistan, or whose families live there, as and when it judges the timing is right.

But this influence does not extend to full control over the Taliban – as the book by Abdul Salam Zaeef, the Taliban’s last ambassador to Islamabad, testifies, there is little love lost between the movement and Pakistan.  The report itself quoted a political analyst in Kandahar as saying that, ‘The Taliban is obliged to accept Pakistan’s demands – it needs their support, but is not their puppet.”

I caught up with the report’s author, Matt Waldman, in London, for a brief chat to find out what other views he had picked up from his interviews with Taliban commanders in the field.

He said some, but not all, the commanders he spoke to said the ISI support was given so as to undermine Indian influence in Afghanistan. But on the whole they appeared to be relatively unaware of the big geopolitical issues that are believed to drive Pakistan’s alleged support for the Taliban. There had been no mention, for example, of some of the accusations that Pakistan levels against India, of using its presence in Afghanistan to fund separatists in the Pakistani province of Baluchistan, or of working through Afghan intelligence to support the Pakistani Taliban – allegations New Delhi denies.

Rather, the commanders were focused on driving out foreign forces from Afghanistan, restoring sharia law and obtaining justice and security.  They did not  talk about the Taliban regaining power, or about fighting for them to have the right to run particular ministries; nor indeed about the position they might seek for their leader Mullah Muhammad Omar.  ”They didn’t talk about the Taliban regaining the reins of government,” he said.

Nor was there any sign of al Qaeda being a significant influence. None expressed any affection for al Qaeda and some acknowledged its role in the Taliban’s downfall in 2001. The United States said it decided to overthrow the Taliban in 2001 after their government had refused to hand over to Washington Osama bin Laden and other al Qaeda leaders blamed for the Sept. 11 attacks. 

Waldman said those he spoke to wanted peace, but not at any cost. While he detected some reluctance to see an immediate withdrawal of all foreign forces — which could precipitate a civil war — the massive presence of troops was a major problem.  Some analysts say any withdrawal of foreign troops could lead to renewed fighting between non-Pashtuns once grouped in the former Northern Alliance and the Pashtun-dominated Taliban. Waldman however said that, “I never found any sort of hostility towards other ethnic groups.”

The commanders he spoke to wanted clean and honest government and the separation of men and women, including at work. They were happy to see girls’ education, but only up to a certain age. They were also well aware of factors running in their favour, including the unpopularity of the government and divisions in the international community about the Afghan war. “Although they are tired and war-weary, they feel a level of confidence in the eventual outcome,” he said.

He also noted that many of the factors driving the insurgency were domestic – including a sense that the government in Kabul was abusing its power through “predatory and exclusionary policies”  and a perception of aggression by foreign forces against the people of Afghanistan.  This suggested that taking the ISI out of the equation would not be enough to end the insurgency – although the report also said that any peace talks with the Afghan government would not succeed  without ISI support. “If you took the ISI out, it might make it possible to end the insurgency. But it does not end the insurgency.”

Comments

ISI is a sinister organization that has changed from being an intelligence agency to a cartel like system that runs its own affairs. Anyone who does not side with it in Pakistan will find themselves in the line of fire. Mullah Baradar can vouch for that.

I see nothing new in this. We knew all along that Taliban is a wing of the Pakistani military establishment with ISI providing all the cover and support. ISI controlled Afghanistan through the Taliban. When the US attacked Afghanistan, the Taliban took the brunt of the attacks and ISI stayed behind, helped the Taliban find safe havens inside Pakistan and has been advising them and other terror groups how to wait out the Americans.

ISI’s main mission is to devise plans to thwart India everywhere. And it has become an obsession within its ranks. American presence in the neighborhood has slowed down its pace a little.

Through these discoveries (of confirmed links between the ISI and the terror groups), I hope the Americans and their allies do something about it. They might have to confront the ISI instead of the Taliban and bring them into submission. Pakistan has too many non-state actors – LeT, Taliban, JuD, ISI, Pak Military etc. They resemble their cricket team sometimes – unite against India or fight for supremacy amongst themselves. To save the world and bring peace to Afghanistan, it would be a good thing to consider taking on these organizations by turning them against each other.
The good old colonial technique of divide and rule is the only way to keep these elements from united and causing destruction to the region and the world in general.

Pakistan is rapidly enriching uranium at the same time, in order to prepare for the next blackmail – selling the material and technology if cornered. I hope the Americans act on this as quickly as possible. Iran is getting there very quickly, due to help from you know who.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

Please allow me to voice my objection…
I STRONGLY object this report to be called “NEW”

Posted by Seekeroftruth | Report as abusive
 

^^^ lol. Seriously WHO DIDN’T SEE THIS COMING?? We are playing in a snake pit aka Pakistan. We call them friends when IT IS OBVIOUS even through out obscure ‘mainstream media’ who out real enemy is. Pakistan needs a time out

Posted by john87 | Report as abusive
 

Though I just heard from Maj. Gen Athar Abbas DG ISPR spokesman of Pakistan Army on CNN terming the report as false and total rubbish based on fabricated lies. Apparently it is not based on any credible source.

Pakistan is fighting a war and lost many soldiers and officers, ISI has taken direct hits. It is the first line of defense for Pakistan, as for:

“Pakistan’s apparent involvement in a double-game of this scale could have major geopolitical implications and could even provoke US counter-measures. ”

If Pakistan is playing any game, certainly the geopolitical implications would have been taken into account by the strategic planners. We have had super powers playing games in our neighbourhood for last three decades, when you are forced to deal with fire you have to learn to play with fire. If the super powers are annoyed with Pakistan playing double game, they must get the hell out of our turf and quit playing games themselves too. First the Soviets invade Afghanistan and west uses ISI to back anti-soviet forces. Then the US and NATO enter Afghanistan and enlist ISI support to fight Taliban. What is ISI supposed to do? it is an intelligence agnecy which works for Pakistan’s interests, and most of the times its mentor has been the CIA.

Can someone tell me if CIA was not involved in Iran contra affair? funding Nicaraguan insurgents, overthrowing unfriendly regimes in South America, recruiting European political leaders etc. ?

Didn’t Mossad forge passports of western nations, breached the laws of UAE and commit murder in Dubai of an Hamas official? How did Israel acquire nuclear capability?
Intelligence agencies are meant to be this way, and in the world of spying sometimes you have to do things which are not supposed to be done.

Having stated all above, and knowing the profile of DG ISI Lt. Gen Ahmed Shuja Pasha still I would still say the report is RUBBISH.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/01/world/ asia/01pstan.html
In August, General Pasha accompanied General Kayani to a secret, highly unusual meeting between top Pakistani military leaders and American commanders, including the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Adm. Mike Mullen, on the aircraft carrier Abraham Lincoln.”
“It will give a good signal to the Americans,” said a retired general, Talat Masood. “He is rated a really good officer by international standards.”

—Pakistan does not need to deny or present any explanation. There is a war in Afghanistan, everyone is working for their own interest and there is nothing wrong with it.

Posted by Umairpk | Report as abusive
 

http://www.amazon.com/BCCI-ISI-Saga-Entr apment-Continues/dp/0973368764/ref=sr_1_ 2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1220560701&sr=1-2

ENTRAPMENT is the illegal and unsavory practice of luring someone into committing a crime, and then prosecuting him for it. Sometimes the entrapped person, organization, or state has no intention or knowledge of the committed crime.
“Frame-ups” in drug “conspiracies” are routine in the United States: there are literally thousands of drug-related conspiracy cases in the United States in which innocent people are implicated and punished.
At the highest level, the classic example of entrapment, before Operation 9/11 to frame Osama bin Laden and company, was operation “C-Chase” in 1988, the purpose of which was to frame the Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI) headed by Agha Hasan Abedi of Pakistan and force its closure. Operation 9/11 is more complex because during this operation, Pakistan’s military intelligence agency (ISI) was entrapped while playing a role in facilitating 9/11.

-Not sure of the authenticity of the book, but if there is any credibility, it is becoming evident that ISI is being framed and I do not know how Pakistan Military and Intelligence services will deal with the fallout and whether successfully navigate out of the mess. This malicious report is just one in a series of attempts to frame Pakistan as a rogue nation.

Posted by Umairpk | Report as abusive
 

For starters, Bank of Commerce and Credit, International (B.C.C.I.) was accused of having become a funnel for a variety of illegal operations, including laundering drug money, supporting the Iran-Contra operation and backing Afghan Mujahedeen fighters.

also,
Has Pakistan Tamed its Spies?
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0  ,8599,233902,00.html

Posted by Umairpk | Report as abusive
 

@ KPsingh01
Is ISI is sinister than CIA or Mossad or KGB. If so then this should be recorded in the Guiness Book? By the way the Mossad man who was involved in issuing false German passport has been arrested in Poland. All the State Intelligence Units in the world are legalised criminal outfits and therefore I would not take the “London School of Economics” very seriously. Perhaps the London School of Economics revise their text books on Economics for their students instead of indulging in the intelligence. Your concerns about the nuclear material is uncalled for! Let us also be realistic, the people working for CIA, Mossad, ISI and other intelligence units are the integral part of the communities in their respective countries. How many Amrerican or Indian families you know of whose members were not associated with the military setups. Let us not split hairs. Pakistan military, ISI and for that matter so called Talibans are not separable from the main stream and believe me this pattern is no different than in the USA or India. Let us try to upgrade our commentry culture and not be influenced by green journalists who simply write SINISTER stories. A good day.
Rex Minor

Posted by pakistan | Report as abusive
 

@Rex Minor,

Your ignorance is showing. The London School of Economics is one of the world’s premiere social sciences institute. They are an independent academic body.

The rest of your claptrap is just diversionary talk. Don’t want to talk about Pakistan, so you bring up the CIA, Mossad, India, blah blah blah.

Posted by kEiThZ | Report as abusive
 

@Umair,

Your general can say what he wants. And obviously you’ll believe because it’s clear you don’t have enough intelligence to read the report and cast your own informed opinion.

The LSE is a reputed academic institution. They specialize in the social sciences. And their independence is widely respected.

They were one of the first institutions to accurately catalog the Iraq War. Would you consider that reporting to be lies to? Or is it only lies when they tell the truth about Pakistan.

Read the report. It’s balanced and well substantiated.

Posted by kEiThZ | Report as abusive
 

“From BCCI to ISI”

There’s reason it only got 3 stars on one of the most generous book markets.

The ISI was not entrapped. It’s hogwash that the US pushed the ISI to work with the Taliban. During the Soviet era, the US pushed ISI to work with the Mujahideen not the Taliban. How quickly we forget the distinction.

The Taliban was a different, ISI led entity, that was not supported by the US. And prior to 9/11 if I recall correctly, the US had been warning Pakistan not to cooperate with the Taliban because of their coddling of AQ. That tension was already high after the USS Cole bombing.

So don’t start with your revisionist crap trying to label this as entrapment. Pakistan made its choices. It’ll pay for them in short order.

As for playing geopolitical games. I think Pakistanis forget about the hand that feeds them. It’s highly unlikely the Americans are going to forgive or forget if they lose this war because of Pakistan.

Even nuclear blackmail won’t work this time. If it ever gets to that stage, Pakistan will be put in the same block at North Korea. Pakistani nationals will be unwelcome the world over, even in the Gulf. And the Americans will simply strike an even deeper relationship with India. Forget selling the Indians F-16s or F-18s, the yanks might just offer them the Joint Strike Fighter.

As for the Chinese coming to the rescue, I doubt it. They don’t have the resources to bail out Pakistan. And at the end of the day, if they have to pick one pariah state to babysit, it’ll be North Korea, not Pakistan. And the last thing they want is an India-US axis forming in their backyard. They’ll do everything to apply pressure on Pakistan to back off, so that India and the US don’t get too cozy.

I really think Pakistanis haven’t thought things through beyond the next 2-3 years. They might get the West out of Afghanistan. The cost will be international isolation, increased instability at home, and even more international support for India (including a shift from Pakistan’s allies like the US and China). Pakistanis better hope that their generals are some of the best chess players in the world. They are risking the entire nation in this gamble to get the West out of Afghanistan.

Posted by kEiThZ | Report as abusive
 

Myra,

Your objectivity and professional integrity is cast in doubt by the following excerpt (at the end of my post)

Firstly, your language all but justifies Pakistan’s perfidious role with the Taliban. Secondly, there is no evidence to suggest that Pakistan’s demands on Afghanistan are limited to “reassurances” on India “scaling back” in Afghanistan.

If anything, Pakistan is seeking a total elimination of India’s role in Afghanistan, which is overwhelmingly development oriented and helps needy Afghans with educational, health care and basic infrastructure facilities.

Secondly, you summarily judge what Pakistan’s influence with the Taliban is limited to, without any evidence to back up your determination that Pakistan only has “some ability” to convince Taliban leaders.

You are a step away from being an ISI/Pakistan apologist.

—-
The Quote:
>>>
As discussed many times on this blog, most recently here, Pakistan is unlikely to act decisively against the Afghan Taliban without reassurances of a scaling back of India’s presence in Afghanistan. It may have some ability to convince Afghan Taliban leaders to join peace talks by leaning on those who are based in Pakistan, or whose families live there, as and when it judges the timing is right
<<<

Posted by SilverSw0rd | Report as abusive
 

You are a step away from being an ISI/Pakistan apologist.

Posted by SilverSw0rd
===

I’m surprised this got posted..Does Reuters allow free speech? Probably I’m going to get blocked with this post, in the past whenever I pointed out anything like above I’ll get blocked..

Myra is not step away from being an ISI apologist..she has always been ahead…of PA, ISI coming up with justifications and explanations…kinda ISPR spokesperson..

Ok I have to sign up new after a few days..

Posted by Seekeroftruth | Report as abusive
 

Umair,

Do you have any thoughts of your own or are your opinions all determined by whichever talking head the Pakistan Army sends out to speak on camera?

Did it ever occur to you that the Pakistan Army would obviously deny the veracity of the report? Or is the report automatically lying because the DGISPR says so?

If Abbas came out and said the Earth was flat tomorrow, you’d probably be here trying to convince use the Earth was flat. That’s how much of a Pak Army drone/robot/shill you are.

Posted by kEiThZ | Report as abusive
 

Well, I read the report and this is quite damning. I was thinking Iran would be somewhere in there as well.

Billions of USD taxpayer financial aid, billions of IMF bailouts, and what is some of this being used for?….it appears to kill allies’s soldiers in Afghanistan….make more nukes….create terrororism and subvert the NATO mission in Afghanistan to ensure its utter failure and also probably more terrorist training camps in Kashmir. U.S. taxpayer dollars are being use to create terrorism against Indians…..It appears the financial source of terrorism is misused U.S. Aid and the terrorists are from Pakistan.

Once the double dealing and backstabbing is coupled with another terrorist attack on US soil, an attack of Pakistani origin, the anger in the U.S. will be uncontainable.

@keithz,

you know the excuses are running out, the next excuse will be….”India forced our hand to create the Taliban”…or some other bogus idiotic comment about strategic depth or nonsense of regional interests.

Now, Umair has put his dancing shoes on again…talking about Mossaid, Iran Contra, CIA, entrapment, India, blame anything else to divert and avoid facing the truth and the shame of its country and agencies,

Pakistani’s have been caught with their pants down again an their hands are in the wrong places as well……

@Umair,..

You said: “—Pakistan does not need to deny or present any explanation. There is a war in Afghanistan, everyone is working for their own interest and there is nothing wrong with it.”

–>This comment just shows how indifferent some Pakistani’s are to the death of NATO soldiers, whose families are the U.S. taxpayers, who have given billions of aid to Pakistan and its Army.

The anger in the American ranks will prompt a whole barrage of options regarding Pakistan from denuclearization to disarming to even unilateral strikes against Rogue agencies.

If ISI is aiding and abetting the Taliban to kill U.S. and NATO soldiers, legally speaking, is not justification or reason enough to declare Pakistan a rogue nation?

I don’t see how the report is false, given the credibility of the source and the credibility of Pakistani Agencies. If Pakistani’ agencies are involved in the death of NATO soldiers, this will demand a reprimand of an active kind.

Once the numb, slow and thick U.S. taxpayer public get wind of this, it will become a political fireball.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

Umair,

By quoting the spokes-person of the PA or digging up an obsolete/irrelevant article from 2002 & a conspiratorial book of an author, who seems to have an agenda against the west, won’t hide the realities of today or justify the duplicitous & slimy game being played by your army/ISI. You guys don’t realize it now but you’ll be paying a pretty steep price for this game.

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

Anyway, this is old news now. A lot of this has been known for a while in the places where it matters. The US and the rest of the West has already started planning a long term strategy for Pakistan. It’s only news, now that it’s out in public.

Pakistanis are foolish if they think the US and the West have no clue about their double-dealing. It’s just that the US is incredibly patient and feels that through dialogue Pakistanis can be made to understand. But there’s a limit to that patience.

And you can bet that there’s a whole bunch of think tanks around the world now mapping out what it’ll take to get out of Afghanistan and contain Pakistan.

Posted by kEiThZ | Report as abusive
 

No free run for PA/ISI/Taliban in Afghanistan:

U.S. Identifies Vast Riches of Minerals in Afghanistan

The United States has discovered nearly $1 trillion in untapped mineral deposits in Afghanistan, far beyond any previously known reserves and enough to fundamentally alter the Afghan economy and perhaps the Afghan war itself, according to senior American government officials.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/world/ asia/14minerals.html?hp

Posted by Seth09 | Report as abusive
 

The most stunning finding in the report is how Americans are being robbed and duped.

The following are excerpts from the document.

READ THIS FIRST:

Since 2001 America has provided Pakistan with $11.6 billion in security-related assistance and $6 billion in economic aid. It is due to provide at least $7.5 billion dollars of aid over the next five years. (page 22)

THEN READ THIS:

1. We get 10,000 Pakistani rupees ($120) per month for each Talib. This money comes from Pakistan, first to the [shadow] provincial governor, then to the district commander, then to the group commander. It is from the Pakistan government – but maybe other countries too, are paying from behind the curtain.’62 One southern commander reported that groups were paid bonuses for successful attacks against coalition forces, usually of $2,000-3,000, which he believed were derived from ISI sources (page 15)

2. For sure the ISI were paying a lot of money: groups of 20-30 people got 2-3 million Pakistani rupees [$24,000-$36,000] each year.’68 Some Afghan and western security officials believe that the ISI is also covering the living costs of the families of Taliban fighters who live in Pakistan (page 15)

3. The district commander described how arms and ammunition would sometimes arrive in his
area by trucks, and sometimes by horses, donkeys or camels, which was ‘from the Pakistani military’. He said that they were paid salaries: fighters receive around 9-10,000 Pakistani rupees ($110-120) a month and he, as a commander, receives 15-20,000 Pakistani rupees($170-220) a month (page 20)

Posted by Seekeroftruth | Report as abusive
 

Obama has two and a half years left in this term. We do not know if he will make through the second term or not.

In the case of Af-Pak, Obama has done the right thing so far. If he had been President when 9/11 happened, things would have been settled by now. Unfortunately, that is not the case.

In the remaining time of his tenure as President, I do not know how much Obama will intensify his efforts into Pakistan itself.

If a regime change happens in the US and Republicans come back to the White House, things will shift again. ISI and Pak military have a much closer understanding with the Republicans. There is a book titled, “Nuclear Deception” which narrates in detail about how the State Department, the CIA and the Republicans in general helped Pakistan build its nuclear bomb technology, just in order to get their objectives in the region accomplished. The State Dept tipped off Pakistani agents in the US who were shopping around for Maraging Steel. Anyway, all that is old story.

If Obama’s term ends in the White House, the ISI might survive again. Time is running out. Kandahar operations are going to be slowed down. Pakistan has survived by duplicity and double dealing all along. They might just drag this war further along, taking a gamble on who the next President would be in the US. I will not be surprised if Pakistan will be involved in any assassination attempts on Obama. Only after his arrival have things gotten worse for Pakistan. Obama’s initiatives are becoming too uncomfortable for Pakistan and they might work through their Republican and neo-con lobby in the US to thwart him.

Things are getting too desperate for Pakistan. Anything is possible now.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

UmairPk: “At the highest level, the classic example of entrapment, before Operation 9/11 to frame Osama bin Laden and company, was operation “C-Chase” in 1988, the purpose of which was to frame the Bank of Credit and Commerce International (BCCI) headed by Agha Hasan Abedi of Pakistan and force its closure. Operation 9/11 is more complex because during this operation, Pakistan’s military intelligence agency (ISI) was entrapped while playing a role in facilitating 9/11. ”

BCCI was heavily involved in the transactions related to Pakistan’s nuclear weapon development. Pakistan received billions of dollars during the war against the Soviets and most of the funding did not reach the end users. It got syphoned off by the ISI/Pak Military establishment to fund the KRL. BCCI was the institution that engaged in all kinds of shady transactions to erase all paper trails. One of the reasons why BCCI was quashed after the Afghan war was the US was behind it. My reference is a big book titled, “Nuclear Deception”. The US went along with everything until the Soviets withdrew from Afghanistan. After that they could not hide the facts for too long regarding their own complicity to Pakistan’s nuclear weapons program.

ISI is not made up of angels. There is nothing to frame around it. It is an evil organization that has begun to resemble some of the criminal drug cartels that control everything. ISI needs to be destroyed if any solution to the Afghan crisis has to be found.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

@ KP Singh

I don’t agree with the notion that if the Republicans come to power in 2012, they’ll simply turn a blind eye towards Pakistan’s duplicity & side with the Pak army’s agenda in the region. I understand that in the past, republican administrations have been much more favorable to the Pak army than the democrats have, but things have changed since those days & I don’t think that will be the in the future. One of the primary reasons I say so is because in the past, the American people simply didn’t care about what was going on in the region or with Pakistan because it did not affect them (or at least they thought so). But things have changed since 9/11 & public awareness towards the region & Pakistan’s slimy ways has been growing, causing a growing resentment against Pakistan (especially in the last few years). More & more americans have started to realize that Pakistan’s double-dealing is costing american lives in Afghanistan & threatening american lives at home. So, hypothetically speaking, if the Republicans win the white house in 2012, I very much doubt that they’ll just change direction & get back to their pre-9/11 policies vis-a-vis Pakistan because the watchfullness of & pressure from the american people simply won’t allow them to do so.

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

Mortal1,

I sincerely hope I am wrong. However, based on past history, most problems in Af-Pak region, the growth of ISI and militancy, mixed in with radicalism etc have direct correlation for Republican governments. Even after 2001, the neo-cons did not show much interest in the region and focused on Iraq instead. Their initial reaction was to calm the American public and feed on their sentiments. After that they simply threw money into Musharraf’s lap and did not care much about what was happening in the region. Musharraf took that money and spent most of it on buying equipment and setting up defenses against India. The rest got syphoned off to sustain the Taliban. It was Obama administration that realized that it is not just Afghanistan, but Pakistan formed a major part of the operation.

There is still a lot of sympathy for Pakistan in the Republican side, from the cold war days. The same residue is present in UK and other cold war allies. You can see that in the articles these people write here. Pakistan is still getting by due to those old alliances.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

Here is an example of how PA has been relying on lies.

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn -content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/prov inces/16-no+pakistan+victory+in+orakzai+ despite+hue+and+cry-hs-02

Militants are fully intact. Those who were killed probably are innocent civilians who dress just like the militants (it is the other way around actually) or those who did not align with the Pak military. The rest are left there for “strategic depth.” I think they are going to drown in that depth themselves.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

Anyway, I wouldn’t worry too much about this. I’ve a heard much of this on the inside, years ago.

Pakistanis are deluding themselves if they think they can get away with it, without anybody finding out.

They are just lucky that the US has a remarkable amount of patience. That’s the Americans for you. The Americans keep believing that dialogue will bring around the Pakistanis.

But there is a limit to their patience. And once they pull out of Afghanistan, their patience will be exhausted. There’s a shift in the US stance towards Pakistan, that’s coming and if you look closely for it, is already underway.

The Pakistanis are and will shoot themselves in the foot with this tactic. Their actions will precipitate a shift in US-Pakistani relations. The US, in part because of Pakistani-based terrorism, will see common cause with India. The Chinese might like to use Pakistan as a wedge against India. But they already have one pariah state to babysit (DPRK). I doubt they want two. Especially now that Pakistan based Islamist terrorists are showing up in Western China. You can be sure that if AQ starts showing more sympathy for the Uighurs, Chinese sympathy for Pakistan will decline substantially.

The Pakistani grand strategy is penny wise and pound foolish. It’s as simple as that. They’ll gain Afghanistan and lose the rest of their friends in the process.

Posted by kEiThZ | Report as abusive
 

I agree with Mortal. The Republicans are starting to take a much harder line about Pakistan.

I would consider the Bush administration an anomaly. Bush was a simple-minded neo-con. Unfortunately, he could not cope with the extremely complex situation he faced (and in part created). He had a genuine desire to continue what Clinton started, with regards to opnening up to India. With the rise of the Indian community in the US, both parties are working hard to court them. And opening up to India has been part of that effort by both the Clinton and Bush II.

What blew his plan out of the water, was 9/11. The slow shift towards India, had to stop as the US needed Pakistani co-operation in the war on terror. What compound Bush’s problems was running off to Iraq. This increased reliance on Pakistan exponentially.

However, attitudes are changing in the US. It became most obvious post-Mumbai. Republicans are starting to see the India-Pakistan relationship in similar terms to the Israel-Arab relationship, a democracy, surrounded by hostile aggressive neighbours that use terrorism liberally. Combine that with the growing terror threats emanating from Pakistan against the US and the rest of the West, and we are starting to see that Pakistan’s friends in the US are getting fewer and fewer in between. Even Pakistani Americans are finding it harder and harder to defend the actions of the Pakistan Army and government.

Posted by kEiThZ | Report as abusive
 

@ KPSingh: “After that they simply threw money into Musharraf’s lap and did not care much about what was happening in the region. Musharraf took that money and spent most of it on buying equipment and setting up defenses against India”

I agree that post 9/11, Mushsrraf/PA took complete advantage of Bush’s obsession with Saddam Hussein & that of the neocon’s with Iraq/oil & cheated the US tax payer for a long time. But the exposure of their double-game started towards the end of the Bush presidency itself and many republican officials had started to adopt a much stricter tone with Pakistan. The exposure of Pakistan’s duplicitous nature is another reason, why any US President, democrat or republican, will be quite wary while dealing with them in the future. Also, as Keith pointed out, US-India relations quite blossomed during the Bush era & that’s another proof of the abandonment of cold war era policies by the republicans. So, I very much doubt that any future republican president will change course & go back to their old policies.

@ Kethz: “The Pakistani grand strategy is penny wise and pound foolish. It’s as simple as that. They’ll gain Afghanistan and lose the rest of their friends in the process”

And god forbid, if there’s another terror attack in the US/West with links to Pakistan, they will be toast.

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

@KEihz
I am slowly getting the impression that you and many of your compatriots on this forum are living in the cooku land; according to the BBC which is not an independent body and reflects the foreign policy of the United Kingdom, states that the balance of power in the world is shifting. And you guys are all getting exited about ISI activities and the fear you have from Pakistan territory. If you believe that any of the academic institutions in the West including the London School of Economics are independent, then one should forgive you for your innocence.Right now Mr Obama is trying to assist BP plug the hole to save the disaster the country is likely to face and thefore begging almost on a daily basis the BP to pay compensations to the American citizens. OPakistan Govt. and the military in my view is harmless for India or Afghanistasn. Your concern should be with the so called Talibans who,sooner than later are going to spead across the Pakistan heartland without having any regard for the borders which were created by the Brits. Neither the nuclear armed Pakistan or India would be able to resist their intrusion. I am surprised to note that you guys from the other side have set writings which are simply posting on this forum regardless of the subject. Yes, my comments were made to
to allow you to have a rational review of the article. But you guys appear to give the impression that you genuinely consider that the USA credibility in the world is still in place. I am sorry, those who relied on the USA have all been declared insolvent.
Rex Minor

Posted by pakistan | Report as abusive
 

I am sorry, those who relied on the USA have all been declared insolvent.
Rex Minor
Posted by pakistan
=====

Please clarify. You are eating out of the hands of Americans, Canadians and Europeans…Beggary…throw away….
Are you claiming you are getting food from somebody else?

Posted by Seekeroftruth | Report as abusive
 

@Truth Seeker
I am neither an Indian nor a Pakistani citizen, but here is the reply.
The USA along with the major European Countries are living on borrowed money. Perhaps you tell me who are the creditors? I can give you two names, namely the Chinese and the Saudis!!!
I happen to live in the largest European economy and am a tax payer. The Govt. is preparing the legislation to introduce austerity measures to cut down the borrowing over the next decade and beyond. They definitely do not plan to cut down the aid which is provided to India. The USA accounting people normaly include the payments to Pakistan for logistic services in the aid amount. The bulk of the aid is the military hardware for Pakistan defence including the supersonic fighter aircrafts- to fight the so called Talibans? A good day.
Rex Minor
PS Sorry, I would not feel sorry for the American Tax Payer, who have been living for donkey years beyond their means. It is the oil smelling money which is keeping them alive. Their spread of the military in foreign countries is to explore for the oil and mineral reserves. Now they have got a hole in their backyard oozing daily thousands tons of oil for the coast.

Posted by pakistan | Report as abusive
 

KeithZ: “The slow shift towards India, had to stop as the US needed Pakistani co-operation in the war on terror. What compound Bush’s problems was running off to Iraq. This increased reliance on Pakistan exponentially.”

It is not so much I am looking for the US to shift its alliance with India. The best thing would be to fix the problem in Af-Pak and go home. In the future, the US should try not to treat the rest of the world as its fiefdom where Prime Ministers and Presidents of other countries show up at Washington to report to the American President.

Let us not forget history here. When exigencies happen, all alliances, allegiences and treaties disappear into thin air. In 1978, Carter Administration was going great guns against Pakistan. Zia was criticized for his coup and the death sentence on Bhutto. Pakistan was facing a pariah status. Suddenly the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan changed everything. All principles were off. Within a year or two, Pakistan became the most important ally for the US in its fight against the Soviets. Radical Islam was not a problem. Running Pakistan under military dictatorship was not a problem. Bhutto’s memory was buried in his grave. The US helped thwart any attempt to curtail Pakistan from making its Islamic bomb. The Reagan administration lied to the Congress about Pakistan’s nuclear build up in order to get the war funding allocation to be approved. State department and the CIA worked round the clock to help the White House carry out its mission by burying all evidence, helping the Pakistanis from being caught in Europe and the US. Just one exigency caused all principles to fly in the air.

Where is the gurantee that another episode like this will not happen? All it would take is for China to make one wrong move. And do not assume anything about the Chinese. They are the most unpredictable people around. They are facing one of the worst labor crisis in their history. Civil war is going in in Kyrguzthan. Connect the dots. If China takes one step to distract its people, that will offset all balance. The US will need to make its move correspondingly. Based on past history, Pakistan will exploit that situation to its advantage.

I am watching the events with interest. If the ISI is being cornered, expect something to happen in the region. I think the Americans know this and might be feeling nervous about it. It is the ISI that has dragged this war despite Kayani doing his belly dance for the Americans. As of today, this war is the longest faced by the US in its entire history.

When the ISI realized that the US might twist the Taliban’s arm, it arrested Mullah Baradar and kept him off from anyone approaching for sometime. And it was acclaimed as a great strategic move by many admirers who write in Reuters.

I’d like Indo-American relationship to build on its own merits, independent of US-Pakistan affairs. India is not looking for a relationship where it simply replaces Pakistan as the next ally. That kind of a relationship is temporary and we have seen Pakistan go down the drain. India does not want to “depend” on US support for its survival and growth. It has strived for independence as much as possible, while building a better understanding and relationship with the US. I’d like to make the clear.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 
 

@OPakistan Govt. and the military in my view is harmless for India or Afghanistasn.”
—RexMinor

This is coming from a guy who said:
“I am soory, I am not aware of the LeT activities, perhaps the CIA,CNN expert or the ex Pakistan military chief could throw light on the group activities”

RexMinor: Puhleeze!!

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive
 

Some people are plain prejudiced. Most of you are on the anti-taliban band wagon, but then all of a sudden believe in the report supposedly based on interviews with the Talibans? You can load this forum with reports and news from all over the world. When are you going to fundamentals yourself?

. Indian military is suppressing the Kashmir folks and denying them the basic human rights to which all the citizens of the world are entitled. This has created resistance and now they are commiting criminal acts in the heartland of India.
. Pakistan military is equally involved,at the behest of foreign forces, in causing destruction and deaths among the civilians, old and children. This has created resistance from the Pashtoons who would revenge and are now conducting attacks in the heartland of Pakistan.
. The USA has invaded Afghanistan and along with their allies have caused destrucion and deaths of innocent civilians including old people and children. This must have consequences, to use the borrowed phrase of the lady, in creating the resistance from mainly the Passhtoons(give them a name of your choice) and this is unlikely to stop until the foreigners have left.
Now the three Govts affected can sit back and continue their malitary campaigns, hoping to exaust the enemy,but history tells us that the resistance is going to increase and with the passage of time a train of suicide commandos with moire lethal equipment would be the real consequence.
This is the current scenario. My humble opinion is that in the interest of world peace, war is not an option. Remember the old Greek who said war destroys more than it provide gains. Millions of people, whose leaders looked for the alternative solutions for resolving such issues are lying buried in the sub-comtinent. This choice has always been there but has never worked.
We have the examples in Europe, people of this continent willed and choose the path of peace and for sixty years we have seen peace, not because of the downfall of Soviet Union nor due the grand defence by the Allied troops, but very simply due to the will power of the people. The american citizens have a long way to go for peace, for in peace they see their existence in question.
Rex Minor

Posted by pakistan | Report as abusive
 

KP,

You (like many Indians) fail to comprehend the shift that was under way in US policy towards South Asia pre-9/11. A lot of that has to do with the growing influence of the Indian-American community in the West. Their success, combined with with their strong compatibility with Western values (moderation, family values, etc.) has given them a strong voice.

Combine that with the end of the Cold War, and a growing recognition (even in the US) that the World is moving to an era of multi-polar dynamics and the US understands that it needs a new approach in the 21st century to ensure its own national interests.

From the Indian perspective, I can understand the prickliness. Anybody that’s been a friend of Pakistan or the US is automatically written off in Indian eyes for the next half century.

However, the US isn’t looking to colonize India. They (and the rest of the West) recognize great economic and security interests in India and are looking for a genuine partnership.

Likewise, nobody is looking to colonize Pakistan either. If Pakistan could guarantee tomorrow that not a single terror plot would emanate from her soil to the West (or in such a form that it doesn’t harm Western interests or citizens in India) then the rest of the world might leave Pakistan alone.

The Pakistanis can’t do that. And there in lies the rub. And that’s why the US has to maintain a relationship with Pakistan.

You cite various historical grievances. Fair enough. But would any other country have acted differently from the US. At the end of the day all countries pursue their own national interests. Is India an exception? Does India shoot itself in the foot out of generosity or something? I don’t get the constant stream of anti-Western negativity from you. It’s scarcely better than what we hear from Pakistanis. It just comes from a different set of talking points.

You have to let the past go. Recognize that times have changed. Like India, the rest of the world has changed dramatically too. So have the interests of all the players involved in the region. The US would rather not be tied to Pakistan but is forced to be. For that matter, I actually think the Chinese would rather not be tied to Pakistan either. Once the war in Afghanistan ends and there aren’t Western troops that can be held hostage, do you really think US/NATO-Pakistan relations will remain as cordial as they do now?

But aside from that, I go back to the point, of why? Why should the US be the guarantor of Indian interests vis-a-vis Pakistan? On one hand, you claim that you don’t want the US in the region. On the other hand, India claims that the US should clamp down on Pakistan. So which is it? The US cares about the state of Pakistan and the groups that it harbours because US national security is impacted. But it’s not superhuman. It can’t contain each and every threat emanating from Pakistan. It’s ridiculous for Indians to expect the US to do so. Or to expect the US to basically treat Pakistan like a colony. At the end of the day, how much co-operation from Pakistan would that engender and how much would get done?

Pakistan has to be dealt with, just like North Korea. A multi-lateral approach is called for with each interested party laying out their interests and attempts being made to find a common ground and form a common front that will contain the threats to all. It’ll take time, but I am sure it’ll work out in the end. It’s contained North Korea for over half a century.

Posted by kEiThZ | Report as abusive
 

@Keithz, others,

If we contain Pakistan, like N. Korea., Pakistanis will starve to death, it will push Pakistan on the brink of becoming like a starving African country, where people on the Pakistani side look over the border, as INdians celebrate diwali and cheer over every holiday.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

@Rex Minor,

Why would we not believe what the Taliban say here? We disagree with their objectives. But that does not make them liars. Moreover, on this issue, I fail to see why they would be lying. If anything they would deny co-operation with the PA. What would they gain by suggesting that the PA co-operates with them?

Posted by kEiThZ | Report as abusive
 

@G-W,

I don’t mean that in this case, we are containing Pakistan by starving them.

Obviously that’s not going to be the case. I am merely referring to the approach that’s used. As in, the threats that emanate from Pakistan would be contained using a multi-lateral approach that would involve India, the US, China, the UK and maybe the EU and/or Canada….essentially, countries whose national security is impacted by instability in Pakistan. You might even be able to throw Iran and/or Saudi Arabia into the mix too.

It wouldn’t necessarily be sanctions. A carrot and stick approach, just like North Korea, would be used to compel co-operation.

I personally think, it’s a better approach, than what’s being done today, where each country that has issues with Pakistan takes it up separately, and nobody achieves anything out of the negotiations, nor does Pakistan itself succeed in making headway on their own interests or improving their own security.

Posted by kEiThZ | Report as abusive
 

The so called Talibans are Pashtoons and are the integral part of Afghanistan and Pakistan people. Not the integral part of Afghan or Pakistan Govts. I have mentioned earlier about the smart American envoys to this region starting from Henry Kissinger and now his nephew Holbrook, who are ignorant of the language and the traditions of these folks but still claim to know the whole scenario in a very short time. Most of the published info is nothing but trash. In your view the NYT and Washington Post are independent and always publish the bible level news and yet this view is not shared by many living outside of the USA.
Perhaps you guys should visit the neighbourhood and try to learn the gringo culture which is even different from the anglo saxon way of thinking.
Regarding your chat about what “WE” (the language used by the immigrant candidates for citizenship) should deal with Pakistan, and the reference to containment of North korea;
:The USA has not been containing North Korea but South Korea and Japan. North Korea is today the atomic power with home build nuclear arsenal and therefore immune from the USA aggression. The successive Japanese Govts. have tried to rid themself of Okinawa and the American nuvclear weaponry but failed. Let us see if the new Govt. in Japan is going to say adeo to the USA.
The USA entered into the pact with Pakistan, Turkey and Jordan, but declined to support Pakistan in its conflict with India. Pakistan went ahead and developed nuclear weapons of their own and obtained rocket technology from North Korea, I guess.
The USA hesitated to provide military hardware to Pakistan and Pakistan went ahead and developed long term military relationship with China.
The USA tried to control and later contain Iran after Shah’s departure but Iran went ahead with their nuclear program without any assistance from the USA. I guess you guys know which country assisted them.
The USA wanted to contain Indian rising power and entered into the civilian nuclear agreement with India. The Indian can now enjoy the benefits and develope close relations with Israel.
Turkey contributes the second largest contingent after USA in NATO and has been protecting the western world since the end of the WW2. Yet the USA refused to condemn Israel for the murder of turkish citizens by Israel commondos in high seas. The fall out would be Turkish exit from the NATO alliance.
The greatest danger to India is from within and in the globalised world these groups have the facilities to train for criminal acts from the USA, to Somalia and right across in central Asia including Afghanistan and Pakistan. Why not find peaceful solution through the political dialogue. People have always preferred evolution instead of revolution. For this one needs leadership.
Rex Minor
PS. No snotty comments please.

Posted by pakistan | Report as abusive
 

KeithZ: “You have to let the past go. Recognize that times have changed. Like India, the rest of the world has changed dramatically too. So have the interests of all the players involved in the region.”

Agreed. The people to people level interaction between Indians and Westerners has been very good and healthy. There is lot of respect for Indians in the academic and research circles in the Western world. Indian immigrants have contributed tremendously to the advancement of science and technology in those countries, which has trickled down back to India itself. All those things are wonderful. But politics is very different. The hawks in Washington and the imbeciles in New Delhi still have their old cold war residual mindset that has not disappeared entirely. While India and the US have moved a lot closer in terms of economic co-operation, in terms of geo-political interactions, things have been quite slow. I hope that with time things improve on this front as well. There is still an air of doubt about American sincerity which can fluctuate widely based on changing conditions. Since the US has a huge global clout, what it does for its interersts can affect others dearly. India has been on the receiving end in that regard. We are not expecting Americans or others to come and fix our problems. We just want them to fix the problems that they have created due to their objectives in the past.

We’d like to see a strong, stable and democratic Pakistan in the neighborhood. I am hoping that Gilani makes it through his full term first – one step at a time. If that process gets derailed, Pakistan will be staring at the abyss, which is not healthy for the entire region.

It is just past paranoia that still makes everyone cautious.

“The US would rather not be tied to Pakistan but is forced to be. For that matter, I actually think the Chinese would rather not be tied to Pakistan either. Once the war in Afghanistan ends and there aren’t Western troops that can be held hostage, do you really think US/NATO-Pakistan relations will remain as cordial as they do now?”

I look at trends and draw my inferences based on that. There is enough history where similar trends led to siutations that brought the world into conflict with itself. Europe is hurting economically. They are on the brink themselves. US has huge budget deficits to deal with. China has labor unrest that seems to be spreading. What this means is that each power has its own pressing issues that need immediate attention. Public anger will turn towards governments spending money on their ventures outside like expensive wars. Leaders can either scale back on their war efforts to avoid public wrath or escalate it to make the crisis so bad that there would be no other option left but to go along. When big beasts get into their clashes, small jackals and hyenas make the most of the opportunity. They help escalate the conflicts by taking a bite here and there, thereby help accelerate the fall of the big beasts. Pakistan comes in this category. They have always exploited pressing global crises to their advantage to carry out their missions – Islamic bomb, radicalization, militant training etc. Now they seem to have completed the brain washing of their people. From an Indian stand point, this looks really dangerous. Hence my concerns.

I sincerely hope I am proved wrong. But trends are pointing towards a not so rosy future.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

RexMinor: “North Korea is today the atomic power with home build nuclear arsenal and therefore immune from the USA aggression.”

If you are really honest and a peace loving person, you will never support North Korea. Its nuclear capability is due to Pak military’s dubious nuclear proliferation deals. In exchange for uranium enrichment technology, Pakistan got the warhead design and missile technology. The US, in general, is a benevolent power. Even the Chinese would vouch for that.

“The successive Japanese Govts. have tried to rid themself of Okinawa and the American nuvclear weaponry but failed. Let us see if the new Govt. in Japan is going to say adeo to the USA.”

Is this what is being preached amongst Pakistanis and their supporters? Japan is sitting right next to two hostile countries – China and North Korea. Why would they ask the Americans to leave? Where are you getting this kind of information from?

“The USA entered into the pact with Pakistan, Turkey and Jordan, but declined to support Pakistan in its conflict with India.”

Cold war is over. If the US decided to support Pakistan during a war with India, USSR was going to support India to counter that. All this is old story. Now the US is almost at the brink of taking out Pakistan.

“Pakistan went ahead and developed nuclear weapons of their own and obtained rocket technology from North Korea, I guess.”

There is no need to guess. Pakistan developed enriched uranium technology by stealing it from the Dutch. They still could not put them together into a bomb. That technology was gifted by China, along with enriched uranium for a 25 kTon bomb. North Korea bartered the missile technology with Pakistan for nuclear weapon development. No one in their right mind would give out such technologies to rogue nations. So the rogue nations help each other out. What a brotherhood!

“The USA hesitated to provide military hardware to Pakistan and Pakistan went ahead and developed long term military relationship with China.”

China is in it for its own reasons and Pakistanis should not delude themselves into believing that China will do anything beneficial to Pakistan. Their Karakoram Highway is now turned into a waterway, ready to burst out and blast all villages on its path.

“The USA tried to control and later contain Iran after Shah’s departure but Iran went ahead with their nuclear program without any assistance from the USA. I guess you guys know which country assisted them.”

Everyone knows who assisted Iran’s nuclear development. Why would the USA help Iran build its nukes? The US did not help Pakistan either. It just was forced to turn a blind eye to Pakistan’s stealthy operation to achieve that end, due to cold war geo-politics.

“The USA wanted to contain Indian rising power and entered into the civilian nuclear agreement with India. The Indian can now enjoy the benefits and develope close relations with Israel.”

Saudi Arabia is considering to allow Israeli jets fly over its territory to knock out Iranian reactors. That is the latest news.

Making business deals does not equate to containing another country. Doing business is anyday better than making military alliances.

“Turkey contributes the second largest contingent after USA in NATO and has been protecting the western world since the end of the WW2. Yet the USA refused to condemn Israel for the murder of turkish citizens by Israel commondos in high seas. The fall out would be Turkish exit from the NATO alliance.”

Israel had to take action because those boats entered Israeli waters without proper approval of the Israeli government. Try sending in protesters into American waters and see what happens. Israel has had problems dealing with terrorists right from the start. They probably suspected terrorists hiding in between the protesters and activists. It is foolish to take emotional actions and get shot as a result.

“The greatest danger to India is from within and in the globalised world these groups have the facilities to train for criminal acts from the USA, to Somalia and right across in central Asia including Afghanistan and Pakistan”

The great danger to India is not from within. There are always cranky people inside every country and in general they can be contained. The real danger to India is Ismalic terrorism that is emanating from Pakistan in all directions. Pakistan itself is getting burnt for creating it.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

@Keithz,

You still may want to consider my approach, obese the militants to death?…this is something “the cabal” must try. Starving people just makes them into martyrs. Why not do the opposite and just fatten them out of existence, the militants, that is.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

Rex Minor
PS. No snotty comments please.
====

Your ramble is all way too snotty though. I’m skeptical about your claim you are not on dole…judging by your ramble it looks like you are one of those “peaceful” people who “beleive in dialogue” and plan or support bomb blasts at buses and trains to kill civilians..

Posted by Seekeroftruth | Report as abusive
 

@seekeroftruth
The moderator is requested to stop this uncalled for personal attacks. Thanks.
Rex Minor

Posted by pakistan | Report as abusive
 

@GW – If we contain Pakistan, like N. Korea., Pakistanis will starve to death, it will push Pakistan on the brink of becoming like a starving African country, where people on the Pakistani side look over the border, as INdians celebrate diwali and cheer over every holiday.

>> I think this statement encapsulates India’s homicidal fanaticism towards Pakistan since its birth. You can just sense the pure joy the commenter has at the mere thought of skeletal Pakistani babies slowly wasting away as Indians celebrate their slow and excruciating death. The sickest part of this perverse fantasy is that death is not an adequate punishment by itself. Before they take their last breath, infants, toddlers and elders alike, must look across the border with envy as the Indians celebrate an abundance of joy and nourishment.

If anyone in or out of Pakistan has ever had any doubt about why we need nuclear deterrence, I think this perverse mentality of genocidal hatred is all that’s needed.

Disgusting.

Posted by mirzausman | Report as abusive
 

@GW:

I admire your contribution here on the blogs. But you should be cautious here in commenting. Especially because that makes Mirzausman breaks his promise of keeping silent nth time and he has incorporated “babies’ in his commentary to dramatize the effect.

See Pakistan made the Islamic bomb cuz they knew you are going to make this comment in future.
________________________________________ __________

@If anyone in or out of Pakistan has ever had any doubt about why we need nuclear deterrence, I think this perverse mentality of genocidal hatred is all that’s needed.
Posted by mirzausman

–I am not supporting anyone here but I would like to know how nuclear deterrence will prevent starvation by sanctions. North Korea did not succeed.

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive
 

@mirzausman..you cannot stop anyone from dreaming. Indians have reasons to celebrate as they are seeing some prosperity after decades of poverty…now they have fantasies to starve Pakistan….lol

Posted by naughtypak | Report as abusive
 

to celebrate as they are seeing some prosperity after decades of poverty…now they have fantasies to starve Pakistan….lol
Posted by naughtypak
=====

No amount of blogging and hiding behind “lol” will take away one simple fact…Indians have digniy and paks dont. You eat from the hands of Americans, a colony of USA, ruled by Viceroy Clinton.

When an Indian Muslim can clear security check faster than a pak at an international airport flaunting Indian passport, your ideology has been defeated. Those hate filled tuberculous bones must be churning under that mausoleum..

Posted by Seekeroftruth | Report as abusive
 

Here is another article in NY Times that talks about LeT and its support by state actors inside Pakistan.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/16/world/ asia/16lashkar.html?hp

Pakistan’s fame is spreading more negatively across the globe. Before they get looked at with aversion everywhere, they better do something about it.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

@Seekeroftruth said:
“Indians have digniy and paks dont”
My friend don’t use rhetorics, the meaning of dignity is very subjective in international relations. Example: When red army captured Afghanistan the free word termed the resistance as fighting for independence and dignity. The other side with India at a prominent position termed the resistance as insurgency and terrorism while the people cooperating with Soviets were the real champions of nationalism and dignity.

—”You eat from the hands of Americans, a colony of USA, ruled by Viceroy Clinton”
Americans are our cold war era’s allies, they want to clean the mess created at that time, they are spending money because its in their interest. They are paying for the transit they are using for supplies. If your notion is true we are ruled by them, then why to cry on role of Pak army and ISI, they are doing what their masters say :)

“When an Indian Muslim…bla bla bla”
That’s what happened to even Americans of German and Japanese origin in second world war, to the communists during cold war, tomorrow will be someone else

“your ideology has been defeated. Those hate filled tuberculous…..bla bla bla”
Well, your words reflect the magnitude of hate you have for us, we Pakistanis dont hate anyone

Posted by naughtypak | Report as abusive
 

we Pakistanis dont hate anyone

Posted by naughtypak
==

yeahhhh..you are right…try that next time when you are at an international airport going through security clearance…

Posted by Seekeroftruth | Report as abusive
 

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