New report accuses Pakistan’s ISI of backing Afghan insurgents

June 13, 2010

us soldiersAccording to a new report published by the London School of Economics, Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) agency not only funds and trains Taliban fighters in Afghanistan but is officially represented on the movement’s leadership council, giving it significant influence over operations.

The ISI has long been accused of backing the Taliban – an accusation Pakistan denies, saying this would make no sense when it is already fighting a bloody campaign against Islamist militants at home. But the report is worth reading for its wealth of detail on the perceptions held by Taliban commanders interviewed in the field. You can see the Reuters story on the report here and the full document (pdf) here.

The report, based on interviews with Taliban commanders, former senior Taliban ministers and Western and Afghan security officials, says research strongly suggested support for the Taliban was the “official policy” of the ISI. ”Pakistan appears to be playing a double-game of astonishing magnitude,” it says.  Interviews with Taliban commanders ”suggest that Pakistan continues to give extensive support to the insurgency in terms of funding, munitions and supplies.”

“These accounts were corroborated by former Taliban ministers, a Western analyst and a senior U.N. official based in Kabul, who said the Taliban largely depend on funding from the ISI and groups in Gulf countries,” the report, which was dismissed by Pakistani officials as spurious and unfounded, says.

Almost all of the Taliban commanders interviewed in the report believed the ISI was represented on the Quetta Shura, the Taliban’s supreme leadership council which Washington says is based in Pakistan. “Interviews strongly suggest that the ISI has representatives on the (Quetta) Shura, either as participants or observers, and the agency is thus involved at the highest level of the movement.”

“Pakistan’s apparent involvement in a double-game of this scale could have major geopolitical implications and could even provoke US counter-measures. However, the powerful role of the ISI, and parts of the Pakistani military, suggests that progress against the Afghan insurgency, or towards political engagement, requires their support. The only sure way to secure such cooperation is to address the fundamental causes of Pakistan’s insecurity, especially its latent and enduring conflict with India,” it says.

As discussed many times on this blog, most recently here, Pakistan is unlikely to act decisively against the Afghan Taliban without reassurances of a scaling back of India’s presence in Afghanistan.  It may have some ability to convince Afghan Taliban leaders to join peace talks by leaning on those who are based in Pakistan, or whose families live there, as and when it judges the timing is right.

But this influence does not extend to full control over the Taliban – as the book by Abdul Salam Zaeef, the Taliban’s last ambassador to Islamabad, testifies, there is little love lost between the movement and Pakistan.  The report itself quoted a political analyst in Kandahar as saying that, ‘The Taliban is obliged to accept Pakistan’s demands – it needs their support, but is not their puppet.”

I caught up with the report’s author, Matt Waldman, in London, for a brief chat to find out what other views he had picked up from his interviews with Taliban commanders in the field.

He said some, but not all, the commanders he spoke to said the ISI support was given so as to undermine Indian influence in Afghanistan. But on the whole they appeared to be relatively unaware of the big geopolitical issues that are believed to drive Pakistan’s alleged support for the Taliban. There had been no mention, for example, of some of the accusations that Pakistan levels against India, of using its presence in Afghanistan to fund separatists in the Pakistani province of Baluchistan, or of working through Afghan intelligence to support the Pakistani Taliban – allegations New Delhi denies.

Rather, the commanders were focused on driving out foreign forces from Afghanistan, restoring sharia law and obtaining justice and security.  They did not  talk about the Taliban regaining power, or about fighting for them to have the right to run particular ministries; nor indeed about the position they might seek for their leader Mullah Muhammad Omar.  ”They didn’t talk about the Taliban regaining the reins of government,” he said.

Nor was there any sign of al Qaeda being a significant influence. None expressed any affection for al Qaeda and some acknowledged its role in the Taliban’s downfall in 2001. The United States said it decided to overthrow the Taliban in 2001 after their government had refused to hand over to Washington Osama bin Laden and other al Qaeda leaders blamed for the Sept. 11 attacks. 

Waldman said those he spoke to wanted peace, but not at any cost. While he detected some reluctance to see an immediate withdrawal of all foreign forces — which could precipitate a civil war — the massive presence of troops was a major problem.  Some analysts say any withdrawal of foreign troops could lead to renewed fighting between non-Pashtuns once grouped in the former Northern Alliance and the Pashtun-dominated Taliban. Waldman however said that, “I never found any sort of hostility towards other ethnic groups.”

The commanders he spoke to wanted clean and honest government and the separation of men and women, including at work. They were happy to see girls’ education, but only up to a certain age. They were also well aware of factors running in their favour, including the unpopularity of the government and divisions in the international community about the Afghan war. “Although they are tired and war-weary, they feel a level of confidence in the eventual outcome,” he said.

He also noted that many of the factors driving the insurgency were domestic – including a sense that the government in Kabul was abusing its power through “predatory and exclusionary policies”  and a perception of aggression by foreign forces against the people of Afghanistan.  This suggested that taking the ISI out of the equation would not be enough to end the insurgency – although the report also said that any peace talks with the Afghan government would not succeed  without ISI support. “If you took the ISI out, it might make it possible to end the insurgency. But it does not end the insurgency.”

Comments

@Keithz,

Myra is probably stretched a bit, and getting very busy, she appears to be doing many projects in parallel, so cut her some slack keithz.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

^ Didn’t say she was doing anything untoward. I am sure she’s a busy lady. But I am sure some Reuters peon could get in here and clean up the comments and trolls.

Posted by kEiThZ | Report as abusive
 

@You duped the Bangladeshis, today they regret the past.”
–Umairpk

@duped by India: Wow! Notice this gem by Umair. So they were duped…no real issues…

@Bangladeshis regret the past ; Yeah sure!

How can anyone have conversation who issues statement like that?

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive
 

Mirzusman: “The conventional wisdom in India is that Pakistan is the aggressor in South Asia. Pakistan hardly has a perfect record but Indians should not throw stones before reviewing their own history.” and blah.. blah..

This simply shows emptiness. There is nothing on hand to counter what the article says – “Pakistan’s ISI has been feeding the terrorist networks and the Taliban,” which is known well to everyone already.

There is nothing wrong in admitting the truth. Nothing will happen to Pakistani citizens. Instead, you guys launch into the same routine of useless counter claims and concocted list of lies that is sickening to everyone. What exactly is your point about ISI’s proven record of involvment with the Taliban? If you do not agree, provide counter-evidence – something that is not fabricated in Pakistan. Quote a reliable international reference that says otherwise. ISI’s duplicity has been mentioned in different international publications. Everything in Pakistan does not have to be perfect.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

You duped the Bangladeshis, today they regret the past.”
–Umairpk

Can’t say I’ve ever met a Bangladeshi who thought splitting from Pakistan was a bad idea. Can you point me to any?

Posted by kEiThZ | Report as abusive
 

Everything in Pakistan does not have to be perfect. – Posted by KPSingh01

I am not trying to troll here. I genuinely want an answer to this one. Can a Pakistani poster address this point for me? What is the obssession with showing how bad India is?

To me that just shows how insecure you are about your own country. Over here, Canadians do it all the time, about the US. And I absolutely hate that kind of behaviour. I remind my fellow-Canadians about this same principle: If you have to put down others, it means you have nothing to brag about yourself.

You don’t see Indians posting mile long paragraphs about how bad Pakistan is. It really reveals an inferiority complex when you do that. So what’s up with that kind of behaviour? How about bragging about what Pakistan can do, instead of what India can’t?

Posted by kEiThZ | Report as abusive
 

OK it is friday..

Mirza-Umair Inc. has emerged. This is a mutual agreement, non-profit organization which is meant as non-profit alliance. Their theme is “Pakistan is great!” and can do no wrong.

They bring in unique skills, Mirza is a spin doctor who can talk with froth coming over the edge of his mouth, explaining every Indian move in context of past 1000 yrs. He seems still in pain after ruled by others… but little does he know that the free Pakistan is still ruled by others and formal creation of Pakistan in 1947 did not do any good. So he cites history as panacea and thinks people around him live in same pain. May be Indian pain is numbed by mixed history of last 60yrs—overall forward looking. Surviving is not a question asked by Indians, thriving is. It is just that some nuisance makers check in Taj Hotel in India without paying and start killing innocents. It is the Punjab terrorism in India that Indians blame on Pakistan.

Umair, 2nd partner of the alliance, is an expert on post-1947, especially the cold war. He tries to bleach wash Pakistani dirty linen with “cold-war” brand of washing detergent. Detergent is too old for and dirt is too thick. Dirty linen is not clean even after washing; it just needs a new detergent. Till then let us call it “dirty”.

Umair thinks that India has “duped Bangladeshis” into separating from Pakistan for which “Bangladesh regrets” till date. Perhaps he is judging this from rising water levels in the Bay of Bengal, which he thinks is due to the tears of separation of Bangladesh from Pakistan. I think there is a small chance that those tears are cries of Bagladesh for the genocide by Pakistan.

Certainly commonalities exist between Mirza and Umair—-brothers in pain. Both claim to worry about Kashmir. Both try to depict if Pakistan reputation is spoiled by India. Hmmmm…such fragile reputation.

Adios!

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive
 

@ “I genuinely want an answer to this one. Can a Pakistani poster address this point for me? What is the obssession with showing how bad India is?”

It’s the same belligerant finger-pointing attitude, victimhood mentality & utter lack of introspection which we have seen from Pakistanis time and again. When confronted with the genocides, atrocities & human right violations commited by their pious army against the bengalis, baluchis, pashtuns, ahmadiyas, minorities etc, they simply point towards India’s “violations” in Kashmir, Israel’s in Palestine, US’s in Iraq & the “plight” of muslims in western countries. When confronted with the duplicitous & slimy nature of their ISI, they simply point towards the activities of the CIA, RAW, MI5, Mossad etc. When confronted with the reality that Pakistan is imploding & bound to fail unless corrective measures are taken soon, they simply point to India’s poverty, health care issues etc & boast of “existing” despite everything. When confronted with the record of their achievements as a nation (or lack thereof), they start thumping on their (stolen) nuclear chest & openly threaten to go rogue. It’s just a never ending sequence, repeated over & over.

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

The brother is talking about bangladesh being duped by the 25 year friendship treaty followed by a healthy dose of big-neighbor hegemony.

Umair, talking with these hawks is an exercise in futility. They think they have a monopoly on intellect, knowledge, independent sources and morality etc.

——————————
It is just that some nuisance makers check in Taj Hotel in India without paying and start killing innocents.
——————————-

>> what is with you people and money? It’s sickening. Those murderers kill hundreds of innocent people and you are worried about the hotel bill? Do Indian soldiers pay a municipal tax before killing/raping kashmiris in fake encounters?

In the past, another Indian whitewashed operation blue star because their per capita income had increased since that time….

KPsingh,
if you are GENUINELY interested in positive aspects of Paksitan (which we all know you are not) visit pakpositive.com

Nobody here is declaring pak is an emerging super-power with a per capita income higher than the republic of congo. We are just responding to your self-congratulating, pak-bashing propaganda.

My list of Indian aggression is totally relevant. It was a resonse to the absurd allegation that Pakistan is expansionist. It was to show not that India is the villain in black or paksitan is the hero in white but to demonstrate the situation and the world at large is very much gray. This apparently made every one unhappy and I apologize for the reality check.

Posted by mirzausman | Report as abusive
 

they simply point towards India’s “violations” in Kashmir,

Mortal, I am curious, why did you put violations in quotes? A man with your obsession for independently doucmented sources is implying there are no violations?

Posted by mirzausman | Report as abusive
 

@”——————————
It is just that some nuisance makers check in Taj Hotel in India without paying and start killing innocents.
——————————-

>> what is with you people and money? It’s sickening. Those murderers kill hundreds of innocent people and you are worried about the hotel bill?”

Rajeev,

Your fault! Your kind of satire is bit too much for simpletons. When someone can’t break spam into paragraphs and bulleted points, you should understand whom you are dealing with. And no, we’re not talking about context yet.

Posted by Seth09 | Report as abusive
 

@Usman
“My list of Indian aggression is totally relevant. It was a resonse to the absurd allegation that Pakistan is expansionist.”

I’m guessing its just your retina probably but could be something deep down in your neural network.

Would you care posting the sentence that made you believe Pakistan is being labelled expansionist?

Posted by Seth09 | Report as abusive
 

@mirzausman

@what is with you people and money? It’s sickening. Those murderers kill hundreds of innocent people and you are worried about the hotel bill?”
—This cracked me up. Relax! Read Seth;s comment below.

Ignoring what u ignored, I noticed we both agree that Pakistani nationals killed innocents.

Mirza, I really need to host you to change your view about Indians “who are sickening and think of money”.

@Rajeev,Your fault! Your kind of satire is bit too much for simpletons.”
—lol…May be Mirza is having a bad day today.

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive
 

While Pakistan might have shown persistenyl failing symptoms, it still manages to come back from the brink. I would call it a resilient nation, and believe me our will is strong. we will build a better Pakistan.

>> Inch’allah. That’s for real bro. No matter how much we complain, Pakistan is home. I’d lay down my life without hesitation to defend the “worlds most dangerous country” lol. On the kashmiri blogs, the advice the brothers from IOK give is always the same: “The best way to help Kashmir is to make pakistan ever stronger”.

Posted by mirzausman | Report as abusive
 

Due to heavy paki propaganda (lies)…even westerners sometimes
assume India and Pakistan have been “fighting”.

It has been pak unilateral aggression all along.. If you count 1,2,3,….
1971 comes after 1965..!! India was demoralized after china attacked in 1962,
paks launched war barely 3 yrs later..

Indian security establishment realized paks desire no peace..

Without going to details, Kashmir has always about secular ideology of Indian nation.
While paks after exterminating their Hindu minority , now indulging in killing
Muslim minorities, India is hosting 170 m Muslims.

63 yrs of militarism +terrorism + war mongering losers
= Pakistan = menace to thmselves= menace to rest of the world.

Posted by Seekeroftruth | Report as abusive
 

Mirza claims he is keeping “Pakistan” strong?
How??? By begging and collecting ransom mone in
the WoT??!
Without beggary, the “strong” nation will collapse in
no time…it is being floated by American tax payers.

Posted by Seekeroftruth | Report as abusive
 

@Rajeev
“Ignoring what u ignored, I noticed we both agree that Pakistani nationals killed innocents.”

Oh yeah, he whole heartedly agrees. He has, in fact, whined on his own blog about Pakistani government not handing over Mumbai perpetrator to India. But I’ve no reason to believe that he would not have posted venom against CIA-RAW-MOSSAD before Rehman Malik publicly accepted the truth and left him no choice. But he won’t admit it here in front of you propagandists, will he?

BTW, some article on his blog reads “India is planning on building more nuclear reactors in the NEXT century…” and my head took a spin for twice. Hello? Its only 2010. But then, its all about “truth not propaganda” mind you sir. The so called “article” is an exact copy of an article published in 1995. Now who has time to even read what your are publishing (er stealing w/o giving credit) truth not propaganda. Large part of that same article is also copied out-and-out from an article posted in 1986 only. And if my memory serves me right, “shining standard of golden journalism” was the phrase this hazrat used for wikipedia.

Just an FYI, http://www.copyscape.com/ is a great tool for checking plagiarism. What’s the point when some are spending time and posting original thoughts (biased or neutral) while responding to others’ stolen material.

Moreover, contrary to Pakular belief, not everybody is a propagandist here, people spend time on this blog because they care about the stability of the region.

Posted by Seth09 | Report as abusive
 

Umairpk: “While Pakistan might have shown persistenyl failing symptoms, it still manages to come back from the brink. I would call it a resilient nation, and believe me our will is strong. we will build a better Pakistan”

Cockroaches and mosquitoes have the same capability. No matter how much one swats them, they hang around. Something not to be proud of. It is like the local thief priding himself that no matter how much he has been whacked, he is still menacing around. Thieves cannot last long. Ultimately they end up dead or in jail permanently.

MirzaUsman: “Inch’allah.”

That’s blasphemous isn’t it? Now you are going to be in trouble for defaming the height of the all mighty. Punjabi Taliban brigade are cleaning up their gun barrels specially for you. Wear a burqa or something to hide for now. Safety is important. If they blow you up, we cannot have laughter here. So please hide for sometime.

“That’s for real bro. No matter how much we complain, Pakistan is home. I’d lay down my life without hesitation to defend the “worlds most dangerous country” lol.”

Even while laughing out loud, you are telling the truth.
That’s an amazing quality.

“On the kashmiri blogs, the advice the brothers from IOK give is always the same: “The best way to help Kashmir is to make pakistan ever stronger”.”

True. That is why your ISI is building Jihadi factories all around, funding them and training them. Now they want Afghanistan all to themselves too so that they can manufacture more suicide bombers and Jihadi clones.

The best way to help Kashmir is to stay out of it. If your brainwashed militant brothers do not come to Kashmir, there will be peace. Kashmir was relatively peaceful once Musharraf shut down the camps in Azad Kashmir and once Pakistani army was cornered in South Waziristan. This only means one thing – if your Jihadi militants are kept busy elsewhere, peace will prevail in other parts of the sub-continent. So will you tell them to stay home and burn their beards instead? Engaging India using proxy elements has already burnt Pakistan. Still there is no realization that the fire you set for others is beginning to burn your rear end because you are sitting on the lid that is serving as a cover to hide it from the Americans.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

Here we go again with the IC^3L.

Indian contradictory/convenient/circular logic:

Mirza condemns Mumbai attackers (That’s after someone admitted to it)

Mirza’s facts are old , too new, not in context, not cited, cited but unreliable sources, Your articles from respected sources are not copy-righted.

btw, Pakistani media broke the news about Kasab’s faridkot connection.

Posted by mirzausman | Report as abusive
 
 

KP, It’s wrong for us Pakistanis or Indians to speak for Kashmiris. Read the Kashmiri POV in their own words:

http://kashmir-truth-be-told.blogspot.co m/
Kashmir Forum
Kashmir Liberation Front
Hurriyat Conference
Mazameen-e-Ghai`b
~Kashmir~
Memoirs of a Kashmiri
Kashmir Views
Brainwaves Kashmir
Kashmir Currently
Tanveer and Kashmir
The Saints Are Coming
Saadat’s Blog
Timez of Kashmir
Kashmir Centre
[Kasheer]
Zarafshan

Sakooter Speaks
Propaganda against Kashmir countered
Candid Musings
United Kashmir
Occupied Kashmir – Taimur Ali
Kashur Kot-Sameer Bhat
Naveed Qazi’s blog
Kashir Koor
Abode of the Saints
A New World Order

Posted by mirzausman | Report as abusive
 

seth, thank you for being one of my biggest blog fans. I do take exception to your suggestion that I don’t give credit.

My Pak accomplishment list was revised by Mortal and he was duly credited on my blog.

http://reformistani.wordpress.com/2010/0 6/06/indian-perception-achievements-an-e xclusively-indian-phenomenon/

Posted by mirzausman | Report as abusive
 

“seth, thank you for being one of my biggest blog fans.”

What can I do, you have been so amusing all the way. :)

Re: Kashmiris speaking for themselves – so you, in principle, agree that its not the core issue between India and Pakistan? If that’s the case, what is deterring the Indo-Pak friendship?

Posted by Seth09 | Report as abusive
 

What can I do, you have been so amusing all the way.

>> Shukrun. Adaab.

Re: Kashmiris speaking for themselves – so you, in principle, agree that its not the core issue between India and Pakistan? If that’s the case, what is deterring the Indo-Pak friendship?

>> Seth, this is why I don’t respond to you unless you flatter me. Why should relax-singh be the spokesperson for kashmiris? what does this have to do with the kashmiri injustice? It’s two different things. Please no more of this type of silliness.

Posted by mirzausman | Report as abusive
 

@”A man with your obsession for independently doucmented sources is implying there are no violations?”
Posted by mirzausman

If by “A man with your obsession for independently doucmented sources” you mean, a guy who doesen’t buy the fiction, lies & distortions, sold by guys like you but rather sticks to facts, you’re absolutely right about me. No, I’m not implying that there are no violations but I’m stating that the violations are nowhere near what guys like you would have others believe. You Pakistanis talk as if everday an Indian soldier wakes up in Kashmir, he goes out & kills 2 dozen kashmiri children & rapes half a dozen kashmiri girls even before he has his morning cofee. And while we’re talking about violations, why don’t we ever hear a peep from you guys about the murders & rapes of kashmiris, conducted by the terrorists from your country, over the years? Talk about hypocricy!
Again, I accept that violations have occured in J&K and I demand that every incident of such violation be thoroughly investigated & the culprits be brought to justice, no matter who they are, officers of the Indian army or a Pakistani terrorists. Now, are you willing to own up to the sins of your army & the fact that it has the blood of countless innocent Indian civilians on it’s hands? Do you have the spine to accept that or are you going to dodge the subject?

@ “what is with you people and money? It’s sickening”

It’s not that we bring up the matter of money but it’s rather your insecurity, complex & ultra-sensitivity as a Pakistani that you seem to misinterpret what we mean & give it a material twist. It’s sort of a “have/have not” complex. For instance, I told you on another forum that sikhs have moved on from 1984 & today the sikh community is one of the most prosperous communities in India. You made it out to be as an issue of money whereas I was merely pointing at one of the most important macro indicators of happiness of any particular group of people, be it a country or a community within a country. There’s a direct corelation between economic prosperity & happiness/peace & that’s the reason why there’s generally more happiness/peace amongst people liivng in more prosperous countries than the one’s who aren’t prosperous.

@ “While Pakistan might have shown persistenyl failing symptoms, it still manages to come back from the brink”

I’ve heard this from many Pakistanis but for once I’d like to know, exactly what is it supposed to mean? Should Pakistan be given a special award for “existing”? Yes, you exist but so does Somalia, Sudan & a bunch of other african countries where unfortunately, the quality of life for humans is much worse than it is for animals in many countries. At the end of the day, it’s the quality of life that matters & looking at the various social & economic indicators for Pakistan, there’s absolutely no doubt that the quality of life is detiorating quite rapidly. If, you guys consider that as an achievement, accept my congratulations.

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

A/ Can you condemn killing of innocent Kashmiris during the Tribal Invasion sponsored by Pakistan in 1947. Also can you condemn rapes, kidnapping of Kashmiri women and girls, and looting of my homeland – Kashmir, which was done in name of Jihad in 1947/8

B/ Can you also condemn Killings and imprisonment of people of Azad Kashmir at the hands of Pakistan during the Poonch rebellion in mid 1950s. Unlike militants in the Valley, these people did not have training, arms or money from secret agency of enemy country, they were simply asking for their democratic rights.

C/ Can you also condemn arrest and inhuman torture inflicted upon people of Azad Kashmir by Pakistan during Ganga Hijacking investigations. Even reading of those atrocities could put Nazi cruelties to shame.

D/ Can you condemn rapes and other human rights violations which still take place along the LOC on the Pakistani side of the divide, which people do not report due to stigma and repercussions; and no human rights organisation on the Pakistani side of the divide has courage to speak about them?

E/ Can you condemn denial of fundamental rights to people of Pakistani Administered Kashmir for decades; and looting and plunder of our resources?

F/Can you condemn denial of fundamental rights to people of Gilgit Baltistan – they were ruled by draconian laws with no accountability for decades?

G/Can you condemn annexation of Gilgit Baltistan by Pakistan, while pretending to be Muslim brother and friend of people of Jammu and Kashmir? Pakistani establishment has hidden their colonial designs under the cover of Islam, which is shameful.

H/ Can you condemn demolition of seven mosques on Murree Road in Rawalpindi, where unlike the Babri Mosque, were used by Muslims for daily prayers and teaching of Quran? It was done by the Musharaf government in order to make this route safe for the Americans travelling to Islamabad.

I/ Can you condemn killing of 83 innocent madrassa children in Wana, which Pakistan claimed to have bombed; and which resulted in more than 300 people taking oath Quran that they will take revenge of this unjustified massacre of innocent children; and commit suicide bombing if necessary. The suicide bombing in Pakistan started after this event.

J/ Can you condemn killing of hundreds of innocent children in the Red Mosque and Jamia Hafsa, in which illegal chemical called White Phosphorous was also used by Pakistani commandos?

K/ Can you condemn killing of innocent people by Pakistani regular forces and jet fighters in SWAT, parts of Pakhtoon Khawa and in FATA?

L/ People rightly demand that India should allow international human rights organisations to go to Kashmir to investigate the abuses; but have you made a similar demand for the areas of SWAT, parts of Pakhtoon Khawa and FATA, where even Pakistani civilians and media people are not allowed to see what Pakistani army is doing there? Or you want to turn a blind eye to all this because the culprits are fellow Muslims?

M/ And if your conscience allow you, also do condemn killing and rapes committed by Pakistan army, (which now many Pakistanis have acknowledged and some officials apologised for) in East Pakistan during 1970/71.

Posted by Seekeroftruth | Report as abusive
 

The above are comments by a Kashmiri!!! Visit his blog below!!

Who made punjabis at ISI spokesmen for Kashmiris???
9. I know for sure that a person like you will discard what I have written as propaganda, but I have written it for some sane souls who might benefit from the information provided.
Wassalam
Dr Shabir Choudhry
http://drshabirchoudhry.blogspot.com/

Posted by Seekeroftruth | Report as abusive
 

Adding to the list by Seekeroftruth

N/

“My list of Indian aggression is totally relevant. It was a resonse to the absurd allegation that Pakistan is expansionist.”

Would you care posting the sentence that made you believe Pakistan is being labelled expansionist?

Posted by Seth09 | Report as abusive
 

Keith:
“I genuinely want an answer to this one. Can a Pakistani poster address this point for me? What is the obssession with showing how bad India is? ”

-Canada is a free and independent nation, its citizens may express their views and have a right to it. Now i understand you are among that lot in Canada who side with the hypocrite conservative Stevie Harper good for nothing. Steve ruined Canada’s reputation by siding with Bush. And tell me did US ever invade Canada? thrust war upon you? Did you loose a large chunk of your territory or did US ever try to incite civil war in Canada no.

With India, Pakistan has disputes, we are not in good terms, we have wars and a long history of mistrust. India poses a long-term strategic threat to Pakistan. One has to be realistic, bulk of Indian Army divisions are facing towards Pakistan’s border. Right now their intention might not be to attack Pakistan, but their capability is in place. Pakistan has to all the time keep itself ready for a befitting reply to strike back in case India’s intention changes at any moment. Do you remember in 1998 when they detonanted nuclear devices in Pokhran what Indian defense minister George Fernandes stated in terms teaching a lesson to Pakistan. Pakistan summoned its atmonic energy commission and the nuclear scientists assured the government to carry out nuclear tests within 72 hours when orders are issued. And that stunned and humbled the Indians ever since.

Keith you have changed the discussion, the point here is why does the ISI support Taliban or keeps relations with them? Let me assure you there will be less and less leverage you will enjoy with Pakistan moving forward. If policy changes are not made, you will loose Pakistan as an ally. And believe me that will be the best thing to happen to Pakistan. That will act as a spur for our civilian and military leadership to look for more different sustainable and long-term strategic alliances of value. With Iran for example, Iran-Pakistan cooperation in energy sector, more closer collaboration with China, and Russia, Arab states Syria, most importantly Turkey. No one can deny the special relationship between Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, Gulf states.

Come on go ahead! Do it. Go for Pakistan’s diplomatic isolation and cut all economic assistance, cease all defense cooperation and intelligence sharing. Lets see how far you go. Pakistan has suffered more being an ally of the west, lets try it otherwise. And let me assure this is an independent soverign country and will not allow access to any nuclear scientist by IAEA. Infact we are free to cooperate with any other nation including Iran on ‘peaceful uses of Atmoic energy’ If you know what I mean. If Israel can have nukes why not Iran.

As for the trash all Idiots have posted, I do not see it worthy of replying too.

Lets cool down the tempers, refrain from personal attacks and take a deep breath all. The topic is allegation on ISI of supporting the Taliban.

And BTW, how about discussing, CIA support to Mujahideen during Soviet Afghan war. Sounds all too familiar, replace Soviets with US/NATO and CIA with ISI and Mujahideen with Taliban. Historiacal trends speak for themselves, one can easily dran conclusions and end result of this useless war. The sooner peace talks are opened with Taliban the better it is for all parties involved. The war in Afghanistan is over. Alomst done!

Posted by Umairpk | Report as abusive
 

If pak army generals are all men, they should
grow a pair each and refuse to take US tax
payer money and decide to be “independent”….

When are you going to grow a pair each?

Posted by Seekeroftruth | Report as abusive
 

TUNU strategy…cannot go on forever..terrorism
under nuclear umbrella has run it’s course… Indian army
divisions are facing you because of your TUNU
strategy…. But then counter strategies evolve…

Bangladesh is completely encircled by India…one wonders
why they don’t feel threatened….may be because they
don’t send terrorists to train stations in India???

Posted by Seekeroftruth | Report as abusive
 

Gen. Petraus faints during congressional hearing on Afghanistan, poor guy the war is taking its toll. Thats why we kept some one like Kayani at the helm of affairs. War is not for faint hearted, when the going gets tough, the tough should get going.
Get Well soon Gen. BETRAY US.

Posted by Umairpk | Report as abusive
 

With respect to Myra
I have great compliments for her as a journo and writer, and have learnt a lot from her articles and indepth writing on this blog.
She used to reply and communicate, but all Indian posters accused her of bias, and termed her an Pak Army apologist. That was some time back and i think now its has been made a policy not to interfere in the discussion by the author.
But best of luck to Myra with her career! You are doing justice to your profession by unbiased, truly independent and thought provoking questions/reporting.

Posted by Umairpk | Report as abusive
 

Umair,

Keith asked you a simple question as to why are you guys obsessed with showing how bad India is & you went into this long narrative about Indo-Pak history & relations. So, are you saying that you are obsessed with India because of the history between the two?

@”If policy changes are not made, you will loose Pakistan as an ally.”

You were never an ally. For years, your army played it’s double game & milked the american tax payer. It only started taking selective action against groups which became a threat to it’s own existance, while sheilding & nurturing other groups even today. You have been nothing but a drag on US/NATO & your duplicity has cost american/NATO soldiers lives in afghanistan while threatening the lives of their citizens at home via your “non-state actors”. With “allies” like you, who needs enemies.

@”Come on go ahead! Do it. Go for Pakistan’s diplomatic isolation and cut all economic assistance, cease all defense cooperation and intelligence sharing. Lets see how far you go”

You’re talking like a rash & petulant 12 yr old punk. If you were mature enough to understand how much your country’s economy is reliant on the US/west & the ecconomic reppercussions for Pakistan, if isolated, you wouldn’t say these things. If all aid & loans from the west is called off & trade drastically reduced, you can be rest assured that Pakistan will be bankrupt within no time. Most of the foreign reserves that Pakistan earns every year is from the west & it loses most of those foreign reserves to pay China, Saudi, UAE & other countries who you call friends, for imports. These countries are only interested in you, as long as they are making money from you & the moment you are isolated & bankrupt, they will drop you within no time. If you think that you can survive merely by selling nuclear technology to rogue nations then you’re out of your mind.

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

Mirzausman:
“That’s for real bro. No matter how much we complain, Pakistan is home. I’d lay down my life without hesitation to defend the “worlds most dangerous country” lol.”

-Yar I respect your spirit and makes me proud, sometimes one person makes a lot of difference. Take the example of AQ Khan, he was just another Pakistani student in Holland, but decided to do something for Pakistan and today we are a nuclear power. Just remember one thing, the people of India are not bad, what happened in Mumbai attack was really unfortunate. When I finished college and went abroad on a working holiday visa type arrangement for two years, I made many friends among Indians both hindus and Muslims. They are wonderful people just like us, I had roommate from Mumbai, we lived literally like one family. Save a few guys on this blog, the problem is the Indian leadership, I persoanly hate Indra Gandhi, Nehru wasn’t that bad, and Hindu extremists today like RSS, VHP etc are the problem.
All we have to do is to contribute towards Pakistan and if anyone Indian or non-Indian thinks they can harm us, we should let them know we are united as a nation. We do not hate, we are a people who would like to live in peace. Its unfortunate today Pakistan is known as most dangerous country. I believe u r in Karachi, how perceptions differ. I am in Islamabad/Rawalpindi but believe me despite everything that has gone on for last three years since I returned back and settled in Pakistan. Still I think the worst is over and we are getting back on our feet. Probably it is time no sports events resume, tourists flock back to this beautiful northern parts of Pakistan. Lets see how it goes, good news is the end game in Afghanistan is nearing, peace should prevail. I just miss the 23 March parade and Independence day rallies at the constitution avenue in Islamabad.
Good luck!

Posted by Umairpk | Report as abusive
 

Mortal,

i have the courage to condemn both terrorists in mumbai that murdered 100+ and the state-sponsored, uniformed soldiers of a secular democracy that murdered 100,000+

Here are a dozen posts from the past:
http://reformistani.wordpress.com/catego ry/denounce-terrorism/

Posted by mirzausman | Report as abusive
 

Umair hates Indira Gandhi!! LOL!
Latest twist is Indian people are ok, the
problem is with leadership!

The truth is opposite. The Indian public across
the spectrum, Hindus and Muslims included are all
thoroughly fed up with pak terrorism.

Why lying through the teeth? Pak terror campaign
in India is more than 2 decades old.

Now you are tasting ur bitter medicine…
Indian Muslim leaders, journalists have spoken
and written against pak terrorism…are they VHP?

Posted by Seekeroftruth | Report as abusive
 

Just remember one thing, the people of India are not bad,

>> Agreed. There are good and bad in neighborhoods let alone enitre nations.

what happened in Mumbai attack was really unfortunate. When I finished college and went abroad on a working holiday visa type arrangement for two years, I made many friends among Indians both hindus and Muslims. They are wonderful people just like us, I had roommate from Mumbai, we lived literally like one family.

>> i don’t want to give the impression that i am some savage but i am definitely passionate about pak, whatever it is wherever it is.

Save a few guys on this blog, the problem is the Indian leadership, I persoanly hate Indra Gandhi, Nehru wasn’t that bad, and Hindu extremists today like RSS, VHP etc are the problem.

>> I totally disagree. There is no extremist element in India. You work for ISI!

All we have to do is to contribute towards Pakistan and if anyone Indian or non-Indian thinks they can harm us, we should let them know we are united as a nation.
We do not hate, we are a people who would like to live in peace. Its unfortunate today Pakistan is known as most dangerous country. I believe u r in Karachi, how perceptions differ.

>> I got some fam in isloo. The food in Pindi is phenomenol.

I am in Islamabad/Rawalpindi but believe me despite everything that has gone on for last three years since I returned back and settled in Pakistan.

>> Shabash shabash. luggay ruho boss. the nation needs you “angreji” brothers.

Still I think the worst is over and we are getting back on our feet. Probably it is time no sports events resume, tourists flock back to this beautiful northern parts of Pakistan.

>> I was in beautiful Naran near saif-ul-muluk before things got heated. Absolutely majestic and yet another under-utilized sector of our economy.

Lets see how it goes, good news is the end game in Afghanistan is nearing, peace should prevail.

>> yeah maybe regional superpower india can take over for US. the afghan brothers will definitely welcome them.

I just miss the 23 March parade and Independence day rallies at the constitution avenue in Islamabad.
Good luck!

>> Nice. Some good hardware on display i am sure… lol.

Posted by mirzausman | Report as abusive
 

mortal, now was “petulant punk” really necessary? Too much hostility here for me.

Posted by mirzausman | Report as abusive
 

I think we Pakistanis and Indians can agree on one thing. We both ignore “seekeroftruth”. :)

Posted by mirzausman | Report as abusive
 

63 years have been spent on militarism, war
mongering, terrorism..pakbchickens are
coming to the roost..

The prospects for pak economy are bleaker
than ever . Even textile industry is moving to
Bangladesh …whose people have been liberated from
hatred and terrorist mindset of paks.

There was a news item..paks in US claiming to
be Indians! Ignominy.

Posted by Seekeroftruth | Report as abusive
 

Usman
“yeah maybe regional superpower india can take over for US. the afghan brothers will definitely welcome them.”

-Well said, this is where I think there is bad leadership in India. All so-called reconstruction work in India is a way to establish itself in Pakistan’s other neighbourhood and encircle Pakistan. Imagine farmers committing suicides in India, people there living in slums well under the poverty line. And they are spending millions of dollars in Afghanistan. Why? are people of India less important? But Indian leaders have to play super power game even at the expense of their own people.

Posted by Umairpk | Report as abusive
 

No! India’s policies are determined by Army Generals like in
Pakistan, but by ever one including input from
bureaucrats who deeply care about both india’s poverty and india’s security.

Several hundred billions are being spent on infrastructure development and poverty alleviation in India. One billion is spent on Afghanistan, sine pak terrorism on Indian civilians has been waged with belief system afghans provide strategic depth to Pakistani terrorist enterprise.

The friendship between India and afghans aregreater than ever because India builds Afghanistan,Pakistan destroys Afghanistan,that’s what this LSE report also documents.

Afghanistan was where pak terrorists hijack our planes to.
Why pretending and lying thru teeth????

Posted by Seekeroftruth | Report as abusive
 

Meant to say india’s policies are not determined by
indian generals alone.

Posted by Seekeroftruth | Report as abusive
 

Umair,

I think an afghan misadventure by the regional superpower should be encouraged. After all, they claim they have “cultural ties” with pushtoons and afghans!!!

Posted by mirzausman | Report as abusive
 

Meant to say india’s policies are not determined by
indian generals alone.

Seeker, no clarification needed. we didn’t read the first post.

Posted by mirzausman | Report as abusive
 

Building schools and training doctors, teachers and civil servants is the “misadventure” India is indulging in. Bombing them is what the Islamic republic does!!
The whole world including afghans know it now

Bharat Ratna spiritual Muslim , enlightened Pashtun was an enemy of Pakistan till his death.
Terrorists are the friends and products of “Pakistan”
not surprisingly end result is failed state kept afloat by aid money.

Posted by Seekeroftruth | Report as abusive
 

@all Paks,

You need not fear Indians. For we are not hijacking your airplanes, we are not spraying your innocent unarmed civilians with bullets in broad daylight and we have never once started an war with Pakistan. We are not conducting low-level wars against you, nor are we hosting terrorists on our soil to hurt any country anywhere.

It is very kind and dear that some paks so feel so passionate about indian farmers committing suicide, which in itself is horrible, however, these Indian farmers at least are not killing dozens of others as they do it and nor are they taking God’s name while committing murder on themselves and others.

India’s internal problems are not boiling over en-masse threatening the security of other nations.

All Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, Buddhists, Christians, Jews and all other minorities are fed up and sick of Pakistani terrorism, terrorists and duplicity and double games played by all of its Gov’t and some people.

With each attack on India, unity between ALL Indians is strengthened, regardless of religion or any other factor.

India has the resources to share with neighbours that play fair and do not lie.

Pakistan is a liar nation and will not get any help from India, as long as it keeps lying. Afghans are benefiting from Indian benevolence and their disdain for Pakistani’s underscores what they feel Pakistan has given them….the Taliban, a repressive backwards 7th century regime that embraces stone age behavior towards anything human.

Citizens of Pak like Umair, Mirzausman, continue to defend the duplicity of Pakistan’s lies and terrorism and continue to makeup elaborate creative excuses, coupled with blind rage, continually choose ignore reality and live in a fictitious mind warp, created by the state of the Pak Army through elaborate, in depth and pervasive anti_india religious propaganda, while at the same time, destroying the rights of women and minorities.

Pashtoons want their nation back and Indians, U.S. and the world are fed up and tired of being held hostage, lied to and constantly being extorted for money.

This current path of creating the terrorism fires everywhere, then begging for the money to fight it and playing double games in the process in the hopes of furthering Pakistani’s geopolitical goals, is coming to an end in the near future.

Pakistan is a failed terrorist rogue state begging for food, creating nukes from IMF cash, while its people starve.

In the not too future, the Pakistani’s are going to wake up and realize that they are being treated like cattle and challenge the punjabi mafia raj head on. Their rage will be uncontainable.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

@”All so-called reconstruction work in India is a way to establish itself in Pakistan’s other neighbourhood and encircle Pakistan” Posted by Umairpk

Let’s see if I got this right: When the Pakistani establishment spends millions to fund militant groups which kill/maim/injure Afghans (despite being virtually bankrupt & surviving on aids & loans), it is considered as “strategic depth” necessary for your “national security”. But when India spends money (from it’s own pocket) for building schools, hospitals & roads for the Afghans, it’s an unnecessary waste of money & encirclement of Pakistan?

Thanks for your concern for the poor of India but I suggest that you save some of it for Pakistan’s poor as well, many of whom are sadly killing their children these days because they can’t feed them anymore. Maybe you should bring this fact to the notice of the ISI, before the begin the next round of payments to your “non-state actors”.

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan up to its old tricks, begging and extorting more cash from donor nations.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/wo rld/2010-06/19/c_13358453.htm

It is interesting that money earmarked to help Pakistani civlians is often squandered by the Army, their families and the ISI.

The poor continue to suffer in Pakistan, but dole outs and free food is not the answer. The answer is getting rid of the source of this problem.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

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