Comments on: India and Pakistan – yet again, past is prologue http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/06/22/india-and-pakistan-yet-again-past-is-prologue/ Perspectives on Pakistan Thu, 01 Oct 2015 19:31:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: kirsat http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/06/22/india-and-pakistan-yet-again-past-is-prologue/comment-page-1/#comment-29888 Thu, 24 Jun 2010 12:33:13 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=5531#comment-29888 You can’t disband the army of a sovereign parliamentary republic. Not without a coup d’état or a war and forced occupation of territory by another army. Any guesses on who the “international community” will elect to do that?

Anyhow, I guess evolution will have to take its course. Perhaps a few generations down the line, mindsets of the majority of the population will favour individualism over nationalism, young people will care more about their own comfort and success than some notional concept of national identity and the concomitant baggage, and diplomats will be able to do their thing unhindered. Perhaps Pakistan will peacefully negotiate a joint venture territories with Afghanistan and claim all those mineral deposits lying there before the Pentagon, and they’ll together decide that its more lucrative to pose a capitalist problem for India rather than a terrorist problem. Perhaps the two countries will become a little richer & busier so they won’t have the time to bicker so much, they’ll be too busy bickering with everyone else. See, that’s why Europe and America are so peaceful – they are a nice, big, happy community of bits and pieces of planet arm-wrestling with each other (nothing too violent, do note), mostly about economic maladies. Too many cooks spoil the broth but make for a happy planet. India is on the verge of joining the gala, albeit in a rather distracted way. Perhaps Pakistan will shift focus soon.

Hmm. Karl Marx won’t like this, but I’m pretty sure that’s where we’re headed. Either that, or the cave-way, when feelings of community, inclusion & exclusion were at their strongest.

I like the “borders lose relevance” part, but how would that work? You can sow on my land and I reap on yours? Or we mix up the demographics a little so no one can really know which parts are Muslim and which Hindu? How would the map of the subcontinent look? Nevertheless, it is a good thought – one that brings us closer to Lennon’s dream of “no countries, no religion… “

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By: manishindia http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/06/22/india-and-pakistan-yet-again-past-is-prologue/comment-page-1/#comment-29883 Thu, 24 Jun 2010 10:48:11 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=5531#comment-29883 Myra, these Indo-Pak dialogues are nothing more than just a photo opportunity for the diplomats of both side of the border . As you have stated in your article, Pakistan is reluctant to tame India-centric terrorist groups, and ISI and Pak army will continue to provide all assistance to these groups to launch attacks in India . Pakistan will never deliberately control terrorist groups in Afghanistan, it is not in the interest of Pakistan to help establish peace in Afghanistan, in the event the peace is restored and legitimate govt is installed in Afghanistan, Pakistan will loose all the international aid. It is in the interest of Pakistan to prolong this war . Pak army and ISI never want peace in this region, they will loose their relevance . In order to restore the peace in this region, international community must disband Pak army and ISI , and also take possession of weapons of mass destruction in Pakistan to prevent its misuse .

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By: KPSingh01 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/06/22/india-and-pakistan-yet-again-past-is-prologue/comment-page-1/#comment-29867 Thu, 24 Jun 2010 01:38:26 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=5531#comment-29867 My sympathies for innocent civilians in Kashmir who face the cross fire between Pakistan sponsored militants and Indian security forces.

This article is about India-Pakistan diplomatic talks. Kashmir surely will be one of the issues, but not the entire issue. For India, Pakistan sponsored terrorism, Mumbai attack investigations, stopping terrorist training inside Pakistan will be the main issues. Other than these, the two governments might discuss about the water agreement. Kashmir will be on the plate too. Therefore do not hijack this discussion into an anti-Indian, Kashmir independence, Jihad mud slinging. Let us try to stick to the topic. There are enough articles and discussions on Kashmir which have only fueled more venom and hatred amongst people.

With McChrystal gone, things might change in the region. Both India and Pakistan will adjust their priorities based on what the Americans are going to do in the near term. This is because Pakistan’s military will be involved in the strategic maneuvers made by the US. As far as Pakistan is concerned, what matters is what its military does. This will leave Indian diplomats half way in the air. So India will have to play the wait and watch game all over again.

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By: Seth09 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/06/22/india-and-pakistan-yet-again-past-is-prologue/comment-page-1/#comment-29858 Thu, 24 Jun 2010 00:28:58 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=5531#comment-29858 @JammuKashmir

Nice screen name, you surely would know the demographics of Jammu, won’t you?

Anyways,

Your focus determines your reality. You guys should choose better leaders and negotiate better, but in a peaceful manner.

Killing innocent civilians who are just like yourselves, burning Indian flags (ok hosting Pakistani flags, certainly), pelting stones on an armed military and calling it war and then expecting to win against state machinery is not taking you anywhere. Accept it!

Talks are the only solution but your leaders refuse the talks offers. You should find better representation among yourselves. Do some soul searching, ask yourselves that isn’t the talks only way out to get autonomy? If you don’t follow a democratic framework NOW to obtain your “freedom”, what’s the guarantee that you common folks would not sink into being slaves of another dictators, this time of your own making. Then you will be crying like present-day Pakistanis and will have no one to blame but yourselves.

Attaining “freedom” through armed struggle is quite fancy and all, but long before you common people (slaves, as you call yourselves) would get weary of fireworks and all, these individual separatist groups would begin fighting for power and probably settle on a dictatorship leaving you “slaves” as, well, slaves for centuries again.

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By: kEiThZ http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/06/22/india-and-pakistan-yet-again-past-is-prologue/comment-page-1/#comment-29842 Wed, 23 Jun 2010 23:13:54 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=5531#comment-29842 ^ and I should add does nothing to free the Pakistani portion of Kashmir.

Kashmiris who want an independent Kashmir should be pushing for it on both sides of the line. And they need to do it as peacefully as possible and using the democratic process.

Using cross-border terrorism won’t get you far.

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By: kEiThZ http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/06/22/india-and-pakistan-yet-again-past-is-prologue/comment-page-1/#comment-29840 Wed, 23 Jun 2010 23:08:49 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=5531#comment-29840 @JammuKashmir,

Well put. Unfortunately, the only way Kashmir will stop being a pawn is when the Kashmiri people stop being pawns for others. Supporting the Pakistani war machine operating in Kashmir will simply delay the Indian exit even longer.

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By: JammuKashmir http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/06/22/india-and-pakistan-yet-again-past-is-prologue/comment-page-1/#comment-29837 Wed, 23 Jun 2010 23:02:22 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=5531#comment-29837 India and Pakistan can go to hell
The way they have made our life of Kashmiris !!!
We do not want occupation by anyone and we want
The Independent Jammu and Kashmir.
Talking about what and who is talking with whom
Both have talked too much and too long
Stop steeling our sources in the name of your
Religion and also making dames in our mother land
Jammu and Kashmir.

A slave of you both

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By: Seekeroftruth http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/06/22/india-and-pakistan-yet-again-past-is-prologue/comment-page-1/#comment-29818 Wed, 23 Jun 2010 21:47:17 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=5531#comment-29818 Even many Indians don’t understand the dimensions of Pakistan ideology fully…let alone Americans and Canadians.

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By: Seekeroftruth http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/06/22/india-and-pakistan-yet-again-past-is-prologue/comment-page-1/#comment-29817 Wed, 23 Jun 2010 21:46:39 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=5531#comment-29817 Pakistan Ideology Clarified (part-2)
(3) Supremacy of “Islamic social democracy “over evil Hindu society…..
Iqbal’s letters to Jinnah circa 1937…..non-practicing political islamist Jinnah’s speeches…

The evil Hindu society produced an egalitarian constitution and it has been working on development and economic progress…

If Hindu oppression was the reason behind muslim backwardness….muslims in pakistan (hindu-free zone) and Bangladesh (nearly Hindu-free zone) with smaller number of problems must have raced way ahead of India…

(4) Pan-Islamism, pan- political Islamism in the subcontinent pre-1947……….and aspiring to be pan-Islamist leader at the global level …….now the Emperor has no clothes……….

Last but not the least important of all

(5) Complete denial of Indic heritage…”your heroes and our heroes” are different…

thus Abdali who looted muslims in Delhi and Punjab, Aurangazeb oppressor of Shias are all Paki heroes (Iqbal’s heroes) since they killed Hindus (and Sikhs)…

All paki “liberals” have subscribed to these belief systems at different levels and with different shades……..
…The past and present are a continuum………

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By: Seekeroftruth http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/06/22/india-and-pakistan-yet-again-past-is-prologue/comment-page-1/#comment-29816 Wed, 23 Jun 2010 21:45:56 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=5531#comment-29816 Pakistan Ideology Clarified (part-1)

Eliminating economic competition from Hindus (and Sikhs) was only one dimension of the Pakistan ideology…Saying this was the primary motive or the only motive behind Pakistan ideology misses the big picture……big time…..

The more important dimensions of Pakistan ideology are as follows….these were the pillars on which Pakistan ideology was constructed……………..

(1) Mindless confrontation against Hindus then …………and now against “Hindu “India on unequal terms…i.e. one set of rules for themselves and one set of rules for bhindhoos…

e.g. Sardar Patel, the savior asks pakis to take Muslim majority Kashmir and give up the claims on Hindu majority Junagadh and Hyderabad……Jinnah’s response….no we need all three on diametrically opposite, contradictory principles… circa 1947…

After producing a Hindu free Pakistan… 60 years later….lecturing on and ridiculing the inadequacies of Indian secularism …circa 2010

(2) Militarism+ terrorism…
Take your pistols out, get ready for direct action …circa 1946……done with good intentions…

Take your AK-47 out on the platform of Mumbai train station…reportedly villagers in Kasab’s home town felt he might have gone there with good intentions…circa 2010

Pakistan military is only a manifestation of paki militaristic mindset…it is not the other way round..as widely propagated…paki population was solidly behind paki army’s all adventures including the Bengali genocide and Kargil….until the defeat came..

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