Comments on: In the drama of the runaway general, don’t forget Pakistan http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/06/23/in-the-drama-of-the-runaway-general-dont-forget-pakistan/ Perspectives on Pakistan Thu, 01 Oct 2015 19:31:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: tupak_shakir http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/06/23/in-the-drama-of-the-runaway-general-dont-forget-pakistan/comment-page-2/#comment-30143 Sat, 03 Jul 2010 01:18:25 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=5556#comment-30143 A prediction from a few months back from our Indian sages:

Mortal Stated:
“I know, you guys want the US troops to withdraw from AfPak so that the PA can start playing it’s vile games again but that won’t happen. You can be rest assured that Obama will finish the job in AfPak because he knows that withdrawing from the region would be a return of pre-9/11 conditions & there’s no way, he’ll let that happen. In fact, mark my words, once troops start withdrawing from Iraq, they’ll be moved to AfPak. So, get ready for more action in your neck of the woods”

— Yes, mark your words indeed.

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By: G-W http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/06/23/in-the-drama-of-the-runaway-general-dont-forget-pakistan/comment-page-2/#comment-30018 Mon, 28 Jun 2010 15:39:46 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=5556#comment-30018 @keithz,

Why is Obama letting Pakistan play double dealing games with him? At what point do you see the patience running out and if it does, what will be consequences for Pakistan, if the west runs out of options for Afghanistan?

One thing I guarantee you….the political landscape will change and greatly harden and toughen towards Pakistan in almost every country that has troops in Afghanistan.

Billions of USD in aid and nothing to show for it, except a so called ally that has personally benefitted to suit its longer term regional goals.

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By: KPSingh01 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/06/23/in-the-drama-of-the-runaway-general-dont-forget-pakistan/comment-page-2/#comment-30011 Mon, 28 Jun 2010 00:43:24 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=5556#comment-30011 I sincerely hope Gilani gets a chance to put Pakistan back on track towards peace and co-existence. He is the only hope for Pakistan and the region as well. Karzai should meet with him and lay out plans for a peaceful co-existence between all the neighbors. This is not the time to start yet another conflict in the region. Kashmir conflict was triggered in 1989 after the Soviets left. It led to the formation of radical militancy the region had not seen before. It culminated in 9/11 and for the past two decades, things have become worse for Pakistan itself. Hope they have learned a lesson from it. Breeding venomous monsters is a dangerous game. It can go out of control and kill the breeder himself. Pakistan was on the brink of losing out to this monster recently. With the Americans leaving by 2011, Pakistan must learn from the past and simply work towards rehabilitating the homeless refugees back in Afghanistan, use its influence over the many tribes to help rebuild the region and invite India to participate. That would build all the needed trust and a better future. Hope wisdom prevails. Kashmir needs peace first before any settlement can be reached. If it is set on fire, it will burn both Pakistan and Afghanistan in the bargain.

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By: kEiThZ http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/06/23/in-the-drama-of-the-runaway-general-dont-forget-pakistan/comment-page-2/#comment-30010 Sun, 27 Jun 2010 22:17:40 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=5556#comment-30010 -The main difference between Saddam’s Iraq and Pakistan is that Saddam’s Iraq was suspected to have Weapons of Mass Destruction, while Pakistan is KNOWN to have WMDs as well as nuclear capable ballistic missiles. I am sure anyone from outside while dealing with Pakistan will keep in mind that the country is a nuclear power.
-Posted by Umair

Didn’t save the Soviet Union. Won’t save you guys. Can’t really use nukes to reverse an American decision to cease economic aid to Pakistan, which would effectively cripple Pakistan within weeks. Pakistan can be crippled by anybody without them ever firing a single shot. Your weakness is not in arms. It’s in virtually everything else. No secure resource base. No industrial base to support a war. Insufficient reserves of food and oil to get through a war. Insufficient refining capacity to sustain the PA for more than a few weeks and the PAF for more than a week. But most importantly, such a shaky economy that some overzealous import inspections at a few Western ports, would probably start rattling the cage in Pakistan.

Heck, I am willing to bet that if India enacted the type of sanctions Americans have on Cuba, that alone would cripple Pakistan. All they have to say is that anybody who does business in Pakistan is not eligible to trade with India. Then what? Which market do you think investors and multinationals will choose? 160 million or 1.2 billion? You are lucky the Indians are a rather patient and forgiving bunch. Ditto for the Americans. But that’ll change.

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As regards, the celebreation, yes definitely they should begin. Victory is all but confirmed. Once we bring peace to FATA and Afghanistan and secure our western flank, the focus will be on just resolution of Kashmir. We should be talking about a resolution of Kashmir dispute now. With all happening in Pakistan for last few years, don’t think we have forgotten Kashmir.
-Posted by Umair

It’s cute that you think you’ll be able to control the Taliban and Afghanistan when the West leaves. You think they’ll forget that the ISID arrested high ranking guys like Baradar whenever the Americans cranked up the heat?

And do you really think the half of the population in Afghanistan that is not Pashtun will sit back and watch the Taliban take over? Do you really think the West and the Iranians and Caucasian countries will stand back and not support the Tajiks, the Uzbeks, the Hazaras and the other minorities? That everybody would just step aside and allow another Rwanda by the Taliban?

Forget peace on the West and a return to Kashmiri barricades. Pakistan will have at least a decade or more of turmoil on its Western border. And you guys will be stunningly lucky, if by some miracle it does not infect Pakistan itself (through increased militancy at home for example).

And this time around, unless the West is really worried, there won’t be billions in aid dollars keeping you afloat either.

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By: kEiThZ http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/06/23/in-the-drama-of-the-runaway-general-dont-forget-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-30009 Sun, 27 Jun 2010 22:02:13 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=5556#comment-30009 In my own opinion post-American Afghanistan will pretty much look like Lebanon…In simple words, we can term this as a “Strategic Victory” for Pakistan.
-Posted by Umair

I fail to see how having a fractitious state as much in turmoil as Lebanon on your doorstep is a strategic victory.

Or are you simply defying victory as the removal of Western forces from the region? In that case, what does that say about Pakistan as a reliable ally?

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By: Mortal1 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/06/23/in-the-drama-of-the-runaway-general-dont-forget-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-30007 Sun, 27 Jun 2010 17:38:35 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=5556#comment-30007 @”The main difference between Saddam’s Iraq and Pakistan is that Saddam’s Iraq was suspected to have Weapons of Mass Destruction, while Pakistan is KNOWN to have WMDs as well as nuclear capable ballistic missiles”
Posted by Umairpk

In other words, you will continue to be a reckless, irresponsible, terror abetting & nuclear blackmailing nation. You can celebrate all you want, but if you guys don’t change your ways, I assure you that you’ll be in for a rude awakening.

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By: KPSingh01 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/06/23/in-the-drama-of-the-runaway-general-dont-forget-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-30006 Sun, 27 Jun 2010 17:23:31 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=5556#comment-30006 Umairpk: “The main difference between Saddam’s Iraq and Pakistan is that Saddam’s Iraq was suspected to have Weapons of Mass Destruction, while Pakistan is KNOWN to have WMDs as well as nuclear capable ballistic missiles. I am sure anyone from outside while dealing with Pakistan will keep in mind that the country is a nuclear power.”

It does not matter. Soviet Union was one of the largest nuclear powers in the world. The US managed to bring it down. You should not forget that history because of blind emotions. The US is still a big power and it can play games. Pakistan is already on an economic brink much worse than what the USSR faced before it collapsed. And Pakistan is a much smaller country without the international influence and clout that the USSR enjoyed. Pakistan’s nuclear prowess might matter in the region, considering the madness involved in the country. For the US it will not matter. It has its ways of creating more problems against those who its sees as a threat. It is beginning to see Pakistan as one, especially after this “victory” of sorts for Pakistan. The fact that you guys have started firing shots in the air for celebration tells clearly that it has been your country that has been the main villain, that has managed to cover itself and hide behind Afghanistan. But do not assume that people do not know this outside of Pakistan. There will be books written about Pakistan’s duplicity and double dealing in the whole conflict that has stretched it this far. I sincerely wish your country does not face the barrel of the American gun. They are capable of reducing Pakistan to rubble, just like Afghanistan.

“As regards, the celebration, yes definitely they should begin. Victory is all but confirmed.”

Yes indeed. It also confirms that your country has been behind the whole thing. It is the real villain. Bin Laden and Mullah Omar have evaded the US search efforts because of your country. That will not be forgotten by the departing Americans. The US will distance itself from Pakistan and will not rely on it for strategic purposes in this region anymore. That will be a big problem for your military. All this talk of relying on China may not work completely. China can still be arm twisted by the US into isolating Pakistan. Once the US does not need Pakistan, it will treat it very harshly. Any terrorist problem arising from Pakistan will be dealt with severely by the US. Pakistan will need to play its cards very carefully from here on. Celebrate well. Because as I see it, this might be the last one you will be celebrating.

“Once we bring peace to FATA and Afghanistan and secure our western flank, the focus will be on just resolution of Kashmir. We should be talking about a resolution of Kashmir dispute now. With all happening in Pakistan for last few years, don’t think we have forgotten Kashmir.”

That blackmail will not work anymore. You are basically saying that Pakistan will use Afghanistan as the strategic depth once again for its proxy war operations inside Kashmir. India has learned from the previous experience. So instead of bringing peace to Afghanistan, Pakistan, because of its wrong attitude, will face another proxy war inside Afghanistan. It may not be able to handle two battles on both sides of its borders. I know your Jihadi clones are limbering up right now to launch into India. We are well aware of all the moves. It will be brutal proxy war, compared to before. There will be severe loss of lives. But Pakistan will face economic collapse being unable to sustain such wars. The US will not support Pakistan like it did before. Kerry Lugar bill might look like a free dole compared to what the US will do.

The key player in the future will not be India. It will be the US. A “defeated” US is much more dangerous. So enjoy your celebrations. We are your brothers. So we know how to handle “Kashmir” issues.

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By: Umairpk http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/06/23/in-the-drama-of-the-runaway-general-dont-forget-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-30005 Sun, 27 Jun 2010 16:29:39 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=5556#comment-30005 KPSingh:
“The US can turn against Pakistan, the way it did against Saddam’s Iraq and might return here at a latter time to settle the scores. You guys should thinking in the long run in a mature fashion. This is no time for celebration. The burden is falling on to your lap. Hope wisdom prevails.”

-The main difference between Saddam’s Iraq and Pakistan is that Saddam’s Iraq was suspected to have Weapons of Mass Destruction, while Pakistan is KNOWN to have WMDs as well as nuclear capable ballistic missiles. I am sure anyone from outside while dealing with Pakistan will keep in mind that the country is a nuclear power.
As regards, the celebreation, yes definitely they should begin. Victory is all but confirmed. Once we bring peace to FATA and Afghanistan and secure our western flank, the focus will be on just resolution of Kashmir. We should be talking about a resolution of Kashmir dispute now. With all happening in Pakistan for last few years, don’t think we have forgotten Kashmir.

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By: KPSingh01 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/06/23/in-the-drama-of-the-runaway-general-dont-forget-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-30004 Sun, 27 Jun 2010 15:32:04 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=5556#comment-30004 Umairpk: “The Pakistani intelligence service would act as a surrogate (and guarantor) for the Taliban, as Slobodan Milosevic did for the Bosnian Serbs 15 years ago. The Americans would deliver Kabul. The deal might leave the Taliban in control of large parts of Afghanistan but keep al-Qaeda in Pakistan, where Islamabad would agree to deal harshly with its fighters.”

There is no problem with Pak military doing its own thing to settle the affairs in Afghanistan. After all, Afghanistan shares its borders with Pakistan and Pakistan has Afghan refugees.

What matters is that there should be a sincerity towards permanent settlement in Afghanistan. Afghan settlement should not be done with an India-centric strategy in mind. The last time Pakistan settled Afghanistan by creating the Taliban, it was really not for settling anything there. It was done to create a “strategic depth” against India, shift all terrorist training camps in the lawless lands of Afghanistan and stage operations from there. If Pakistan is going to repeat this again, it would spell doom for both Pakistan and Afghanistan. No one seems to know what exactly is the plan by the Pakistani planners. Are they really interested in a peaceful settlement where Afghans get to run their own affairs or are they going back to the old ways of digging trenches for a near future proxy war with India? That is all we Indians are interested in. If Pakistan truly wants to commit itself for peace in the region, then it would well include India in the plans and make deals with India regarding peaceful co-existence. Pakistan should not object to India’s constructive missions in Afghanistan and learn to work with the neighbors. If Pakistan treats everything Indian as an anti-Pakistan sabotage effort, then peace will not return this region. Pakistan might help settle the matters with Taliban and Karzai in the region. Remember that the Americans are about to dump Pakistan and leave the region to fend for itself. They definitely will swallow this “defeat” hard and their reaction would be to distance themselves from Pakistan and Karzai. Pakistan will need to turn towards China which may not help much if chaos is what it would face in the region. If Pakistan wants to blackmail the world with nuclear proliferation, terrorism etc, they may not be treated in kindness this time. Pakistanis will face isolation and economic sanctions. Everything depends upon how sincere Pakistan is really rooting out terrorism and wants to work towards peace in the region. If they believe that they have defeated the West and start losing their minds with arrogance, it will be the biggest mistake they will be making. The US can turn against Pakistan, the way it did against Saddam’s Iraq and might return here at a latter time to settle the scores. You guys should thinking in the long run in a mature fashion. This is no time for celebration. The burden is falling on to your lap. Hope wisdom prevails. Looking at the growth of radicalism in Pakistan, I am not hopeful it will.

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By: Umairpk http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/06/23/in-the-drama-of-the-runaway-general-dont-forget-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-30001 Sat, 26 Jun 2010 15:05:26 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=5556#comment-30001 http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con tent/article/2010/06/18/AR2010061805638. html?waporef=obinsite

Pakistan, Afghanistan begin talks about dealing with insurgents

A very good news, last time when Soviets withdrew, leaving behind Mujahideen factions who resorted to infighting. This time around Pakistan has done its home work and arrangements for a post-war setup are well underway.

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