Fake degrees stir fear of ‘mini mid-term polls’ in Pakistan

June 29, 2010

punjab universityPakistani education authorities are verifying university degrees of members of parliament amid fears that scores of them could be disqualified for holding “fake degrees”, leading to “mini mid-term elections” less than three years after general elections were held in the country.

Large scale by-elections could trigger political uncertainty in the country which is presently confronted with growing threat of Islamist militancy and is struggling to bolster a weak economy.

Pakistan’s increasingly assertive Supreme Court last week ordered election authorities to take action against legislators who were found guilty of forging their education degrees to contest general elections in February 2008.

Under a law introduced by former military ruler Pervez Musharraf,  a member of parliament must be a university graduate. The move was seen as an attempt by Musharraf, who resigned after the defeat of his allies in elections, to keep his rivals out of politics, many of whom were not university graduates.

The government of President Asif Ali Zardari, who replaced Musharraf, later struck down the law but the parliamentarians elected in 2008 when the law was in place could find their wins challenged in court. Already, by-elections for about a dozen national seats and four provincial seats have been held recently after the degrees of some office-holders were found to be fake.

Several newspapers quoted a former senior official of the election commission as saying that about 140 members of national and provincial assemblies are holding fake degrees.

The Supreme Court’s decision triggered a heated debate in the country with many people calling for stern action against those found guilty of forgery.

“More is needed,” the liberal newspaper Daily Times said in an editorial. “They need to be barred from ever contesting elections again. Once a fraudulent character has been proved, our frail political system should never have to entertain them again.”

But Pakistani political parties, dominated by powerful feudal lords, are unlikely to shun forgers in any great numbers.

Last month a  legislator of the Zardari’s party from a rural, undeveloped constituency in central Punjab province resigned on accusations that he was holding a fake degree. But the party again fielded him as a candidate in by-elections. He won re-election, drawing strong criticism from media and people.

“Can these people be called sagacious, righteous, non-profligate, honest and ameen (trustworthy) as required by … the constitution,” Azfar A. Khan, a citizen, wrote in a letter published in the daily Dawn.

But Zardari, who is himself accused by his rivals of massive corruption,  defended his party’s decision in a recent speech at a public rally and said it showed people’s confidence in his party.

Most of the holders of fake degrees are believed to be members of the main opposition party led by former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, the PML-N, which rules country’s biggest and most important province of Punjab.

Some in the media have called for “a measure of pragmatism” on the issue of fake degrees.

The Dawn in a recent editorial said disqualification of around 140 parliamentarians, who are believed to be holding fake degrees, would mean by-elections would have to be held in these constituencies.

“A mini-mid-term election is not something the country needs presently,” it said.

The paper suggested the government should push legislation through parliament to exempt the sitting members of  parliament from holding university degrees to avoid political instability.

“Legislation with retrospective effect is not something that should be encouraged, especially where it benefits assembly members themselves, but in the present instance it would be a small price to pay for righting a wrong of Gen. Musharraf’s doing.”

(Reuters photo: A policeman stands guard at Punjab University in Lahore/Adrees Latif)

Comments

This is serious issue, but a couple of days back I heard someone from the opposition saying that this step introduced by the previous dictator is not legit; well if being an educated parliamentarian is not legitimate then only GOD can save our country.

Posted by SZaman88 | Report as abusive
 

Wow I never knew that Pakistan had such a good law. May be Indian parliamentarians should learn from, for a change, their Pakistani counterparts.

Or may be Pakistani parliamentarians should learn from their Indian counterparts on how to get legitimate degrees from legitimate universities by using fake/corrupt methods. (This seems a more possible happening in near future as it is natural human tendency to get attracted to wrong doing easily because right is more often very tough to do)

Indian and Pakistani parliamentarians are laughing stock not only in foreign lands but also in their homelands as well.

Shame on us that we send such fools to our parliaments.

Posted by 007XXX | Report as abusive
 

I don’t know if I agree with a law like this. It’s not a requirement in the West for example. How do you get parliamentarians in touch with the public when, in essence, you require them to be part of the elite? That would hardly make for representative government.

Nor is it necessarily a truism that a degree might make somebody a better parliamentarians. For a good proportion of western history, most parliamentarians were barely literate if that. It never stopped the West from developing and advancing. So why would things turn out differently in South Asia?

The bigger problem in South Asia, as far as I see it, is that people have a habit of electing poor representatives. This has more to do with vote bank politics (India) and feudal/tribal politics (Pakistan). Until public attitudes are changed, this won’t really disappear. You’ll simply end up trading the current set of poor parliamentarians for more educated but equally corrupt politicians.

Posted by kEiThZ | Report as abusive
 

I echo Keithz’s views.

A minimal education standard should be required. Not having these degrees (even genuine) will not hurt the country as long as they are wise enough. Natural process would take that educated politicians also enter the politics…mostly these are elites who have served the govt in non-political capacity.

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive
 

Musharaff introduced that rule, so that the Punjabi elite can keep their grip on power to this day, that seems to be the case, despite that Musharaff has been gone for some time.

Some of the best politicians and guardians of the citizens are actually the uneducated people, who have a natural moral and ethical compass, free from religious or one-sided political bias.

One such individual is the greatest American President Abraham Lincoln. He was a tough talking honest guy who was extremely courageous and did not scare easily.

Even a simple high-school educated guy like Lincoln was able to connect to the average citizen. He said that as long as people know the truth, the union is safe.

Pakistan needs such a man as lincoln. Perhaps even India.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

007xxx: ” may be Pakistani parliamentarians should learn from their Indian counterparts on how to get legitimate degrees from legitimate universities by using fake/corrupt methods”

Manmohan Singh has a degree in economics from Harvard. P. Chidambaram has a similar degree as well. Nehru went to UK for his education. So did Indira Gandhi. Sanjay Gandhi was a rowdy. Rajeev Gandhi went to UK for his studies. What has happened in India is that over a period of a few decades, more and more decent politicians began to make their entry. However dirty it might be, it is important to exercize the system. India did that and slowly, with time, despite the corruption and backwardness, democracy is beginning to take firm root. People, despite their backwardness are learning to exercise the power of their votes. For a vastly diverse country like India, it will probably take another 100 years for democracy to be really effective and powerful.

Pakistanis should not feel discouraged. They should keep at it instead of expecting quick results out of democracy. There is nothing to be shameful to have corrupt people running for the office. This is true everywhere, even in Western countries where they have democratic system in place for centuries. Education is always good as it helps in decision making process. Uneducated people can be taken for a ride easily. But one has to allow the system to mature with time. Things won’t happen overnight. It takes generations to help democracy work.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

@KPSingh,
Manmohan Singh studied at Cambridge and Oxoford universities not at Harvard. His doctoal degree (DPhil) is from Oxford University. Home minister P Chidambaram has MBA degree from Harvard University.

Posted by Seekeroftruth | Report as abusive
 

We have fallen behind in the last few hundred years…we should have universities like Hravard and Oxford in India.

Posted by Seekeroftruth | Report as abusive
 

@”We have fallen behind in the last few hundred years…we should have universities like Hravard and Oxford in India” Posted by Seekeroftruth

I tell you, Indian IITs & IIMs are pretty world class too. Just ask the US silicon valley! Given that India has just gotten out of it’s shell in the last 20 odd yrs or so, I think it’s doing pretty good as far as developing educational institutions is concerned. These things take time.

Getting back to the topic at hand, I think before passing laws requiring educational qualifications for public officials, it’s imperative for countries like Pakistan & India to pass laws, disallowing people with criminal backrounds from running for office. This can be underlined by the fact that in the US (& west), convicted felons are not even allowed to vote, let alone run for office wheras in countries like India & Pakistan, criminals run for office from their prison cells.

As the author said, the education requirement in Pakistan was just a political stunt by Musharraf.

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

“it’s imperative for countries like Pakistan & India to pass laws, disallowing people with criminal backrounds from running for office”

That is an absolute must! Convicted fellows should certainly be not allowed. In case of people with pending cases, their cases should be handled by fast track courts. Unfortunately, we have a culture of flaunting police complaints and FIRs as trophies among politicians.

Posted by Seth09 | Report as abusive
 

It’s hardly a secret but this is what average Pakistanis think about the terror attacks in their country:

LAHORE: On Friday, after the latest attacks in Lahore’s Data shrine which killed 41, only a few Pakistanis interviewed saw militants at the root of the problem.

“America is killing Muslims in Afghanistan and in our tribal areas (with missile strikes), and militants are attacking Pakistan to express anger against the government for supporting America” said Zahid Umar, 25, who frequently visits the shrine.

“Pakistanis are suffering because of American policies and aggression in the region” said Mohammed Asif, 34, who runs an auto workshop in Lahore. He and others said that the attacks would end if the US would pull out of Afghanistan.

Washington “is encouraging Indians and Jews to carry out attacks in Pakistan” said Arifa Moen, 32, a teacher in the central city of Multan.

Note: The individual quoted last, is a teacher.

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

This last entry is relevant to article how?

Posted by tupak_shakir | Report as abusive
 

@Mortal, Singh,

It is sad to see Pakistani’s not understand the depth of their ignorance.

The entire world knows that the starting of militantism and its subsequent proliferation was started by Pakistani Army and ISI. Now these same militants are taking on the Pak establishment and killing Pakistanis.

But still Pakistani’s are choosing to be willfully blind to not self-admit and realize that their butchers are the actual men in beards who call themselves muslims, these guys are butchering muslims in Lahore, Islamabad, and Rawalpindi.

Sure, the Afghan mission may have triggered these militant groups to turn on and in some ways, turn on their masters in Pak HQ, but the fact remains, if the U.S had not come to Pakistan, Pakistani’s were still living with a ticking militant bxmb under their beds, watching these guys day after day, preach sermons of hate and militantism, they have to admit to themselves that this is not a normal nor healthy society, where so many people with militant views preach hatred and death to others, this is not sane behavior, but in fact, psychologically warped, criminal adn deplorable behavior, but many muslims in Pakistan are so conditioned to see this everyday, they are ever so blind to the raging demon below their own noses, a militant demon ready to burst, given the right situation. This militant demon was started by the nefarious Pak Army and ISI.

Still to this day, a lot of PA and Pakistani’s alike blame the Soviet occupation, was only 8 years long, but that ended in 1988, it has been almost 22 years and still Pakistani Army and ISI has been fomenting, supplying, mentoring and proliferating terrorist militant jihadi’s to suit their own games and it is this last 22 years.

Again, I repeat, to you Pakistani’s the soviet occupation was only 8 years long and for almost 3 times that duration, your state agencies have grown Islamic Militantism as a proxy army to suit its own business needs.

Why don’t any Pakistani’s just admit, it their Army for almost 22 years, three times longer than the soviet occupation, have danced and played with the Islamic Militant demons who are now demonizing Pakistanis?

This is one of the reasons why non-paks have such a low opionion of Pakistani’ dismissiveness and ignorance towards militantism. Still you Paks choose to be blinded by religious hatred and broken national ego and focus all such blind rage for personal character failures and flaws at: the US, Israel and India.

When will a sense of personal responsibility ever take place in Pakistan?

When will you Pakistani’s vent and rage your anger at those venous clerics who train and mentor young minds to do suicide attacks on your country men and vent your rage and anger at those who continue to support, train and mentor them…your Army and your ISI?

Nobody put a gun to the PA an ISI’s head to create militants and terrorism, they did so on their own, without your consent.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE. Ladies and gentlemen….this blog entry has now been successfully hijacked. The objective of the hijacking is to take this blog to the lowest intellectual level possible, before ramming it full speed into the edifice of common sense. For the sake of your own mental sanity all the posters are advised to obey the following rules from now on.

1) Donot bother to post a comment with objectivity and civility because that will get you labelled a ‘muslim, fundamentalist, islamic, terrorist’…even if you are a sikh, a christian or a hindu.
2) Donot bother posting anything remotely sensible or relevant to the topics at hand because that will not please the hijackers.
3) If you believe that Pakistan is a complex and multi-ethnic country, whose people hold varying opinions and are trying their best to get on with their lives, then you are obviously a ‘madrassah educated jihadist ranter’, and your views will be held in contempt.
4) The hijackers know more about Pakistan then Pakistanis themselves. Therefore, any Pakistani who attempts to inform the hijackers of the ground realities in Pakistan is a brainwashed Talib.
5) If you donot obey any of these rules then you are an anti-indian, anti-semite, anti-western, anti-civilisational threat to the peace of the global community at large.

End transmission.

Posted by Shuqaib.Bhutto | Report as abusive
 

Shuqaib,

They seem to have an unhealthy obsession with pak. The topic is about a half-way decent law in pak’s parliament. However, the neighbors find fault in even this.

Relevancy is measured by the hijackers. It’s okay to handpicked excerpts from handpicked articles about an unrelated topic. However if pakistanis even come close to mentioning a similar siutation in India, then the mob begs for all-out ban!

The other rule is thier comments display the very same vile hatred they blame us for.

Posted by tupak_shakir | Report as abusive
 

@Bhutto…

If any of these entries seemed like a hijacking…what do you call Indian embassies getting attacked? what do you call Mumbai?..what do you call 911? what do you call the 1971 bengali genocide never being mentioned in history books?..what do you call double dealing state agencies being caught? what do you call Indian airplanes getting hijacked? what do you call American Taxpayer funds getting re-allocated for the Afghan Taliban militants against NATO and against Kashmiri Indians while IMF funds are getting re-allocated to build more nxkes?

What do you call a country in which minorities like Hindus, Ahmadi’s and now Sufi’s are getting butchered. What do you call it when men preach hate in open space, corrupting the minds of young men to kill others, from schools called “madrasas”, and still everbody keeps looking the other way? what do you call it when a people have been lied to and had their true potential robbed from them by the same people who the trained militants and those same people still choose to ignore these iron clad facts? If you cannot describe any of these situations as “hijacked”, then I am truly sorry for you.

I think I have outlined an extremely rudimentary, elementary list of just some facts, that even a child could understand. Therefore, hopefully that was written at a low-enough intellectual level that you can understand.

If you feel this blog has been hijacked, then you must, must have an even lower opinion of what is going on in your country.

The elaborarte defiance to continue to be labelled as some sort of victim here to another level is quite staggering.

There is never shame in admitting fault. If any truths here bruise egos, or seem “hijacking”, then speaking truths is hijacking, I suppose and for that, almost everybody here on this blog should be labelled a “blog hijacker” and for that, I personally apologize.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

@Tupak-Shakir

No we don’t hate you. We just pity you as we never know what is coming next with regards to terrorism. Hate takes too much energy. We would rather spend our energy building wealth, getting educated and building our democracy stronger day by day. India is a secular democracy, a country for muslims, hindus, christians, buddhists, sikhs, Jews and all and many other types.

All of this would not be possible if Indians were a vile hateful bunch and if they were, Mumbai would not have gone unanswered in such a peaceful and restraintful manner.

Again, the comments here keep underscoring the level of self-victimhood that our Pak friends keep displaying.

I advise our Pak friends to read some works of Nadeem Paracha, a proud Pakistani, but one who is awakened and has the strength and courage to question things.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

If anything here said was untrue, please let me be the first of the “blog hijackers” to apologize.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

@ Shuqaib.Bhutto AKA mirzausman

It’s really funny that u r the one talking about hijacking the blog!

Posted by BlackSabbath3 | Report as abusive
 

@ tupak_shakir

This blog is about Pakistan’s current situation (Now or Never?) & any comment, excerpt or link about today’s Pakistan is fair game. If reuters moderators feel that my comment was a digression from the topic, they are obviously free to delete it anytime. BTW, the excerpt posted is from an article in Dawn:

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn -content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/03-p akistanis-blame-us-after-shrine-attack-i n-lahore-ss-07

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

As I have said relevancy meter changes with each post.

I am also glad your hobby takes you to dawn.com to celebrate the latest tragedies. I believe only the Germans have a word for this — shadenfreude (sic). I have read the same article along with others condemning the attack. Those were not as palatable to you I am sure.

G-W, remain calm. the hijacking term was used as a metaphor. It was not meant literally… no need for a nervous breakdown regarding Mumbai, Bangladesh, Indian Economy, Secularism and the rest of it…

Posted by tupak_shakir | Report as abusive
 

@ Shakir

Salaam. They can talk about the law in good or bad terms all day long and I will not fault them for this. But to hijack this blog entry and divert it to ‘Pakistan is the sum of all evil’ is not right. Matter of fact it is mindnumbingly dumb, because as you pointed out, they expose within themselves the very same vile hatred they blame us for.

I have seen the exact same pattern repeated all over the internet. Pakistani’s barely ever bombard an India related topic with the kind of venom that Indians do on a Pakistan related topic… even a neutral topic like this one. You used the absolutely correct word to describe their behaviour…’Obsession’.

The sad part is that the voices of those Indians who put their views across with civility and objectivity are drowned out by the hateful chorus emanating from this small minority. Therefore no real dialogue can take place with those of our neighbours who matter most. I think the best thing to do is to mainly engage those of them who are objective and civil in their approach.

Getting back to the topic. I understand the importance of this law, but the way it was brought in by Musharaf made it a bit suspect back then. I can also see a few problems with the law. Quite a few of our workers at the mid-tier level of politics are ‘sons of the soil’ , ‘salt of the earth’ type of folks who never had an opportunity to get quality higher education in their youth. It is not right to penalize these folks due to a lack of opportunities in their lives. The law could potentially put a ceiling on how far the genuine workers of our political parties can rise, regardless of how capable and experienced they may be, regardless of how much they may have sacrificed.

It also penalizes those women workers who chose to raise a family over pursing tertiary level education. It tells them that they cannot aspire to the highest levels of our political offices unless they spend a further four years studying subjects with little relevance to politics and governance.

This is a good law if implemented properly over the long term, but like most laws in Pakistan it is currently being misused for political ends.

Having said that, I cannot comprehend the ‘genius’ of those politicians who hurriedly got their degrees from obviously fake institutions. Check this out
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/top_story_det ail.asp?Id=29749 . Take a close look at the names of the institutions where these Einsteins got their degrees from (7th para). I guarentee you, you will die of laughter :)

Salaam

Posted by Shuqaib.Bhutto | Report as abusive
 

@”I am also glad your hobby takes you to dawn.com to celebrate the latest tragedies. I believe only the Germans have a word for this — shadenfreude (sic)” Posted by tupak_shakir

So, as per your sweeping generalization, any Indian or person of Indian origin, who visits Pakistani news sites, does so specifically, to enjoy the horrific news of ghastly murders? How judgmental can you get!

Going by your yardstick, I can also assume that all Pakistanis (including you) experienced “shadenfreude” when they saw images of Indian women & children being massacared by your “non-state actors” in Mumbai in 2008 BUT I WON’T because I don’t go around passing judgment on people, I don’t know anything about.

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

Salaam brother.

The biggest annoyance is we can’t have a discussion about even our municipal without neighborly intrusion. In the other article they are arguing about Pak Studies being a mandatory course in our collegiate curriculum.

I have misgivings about the degree requirement myself. My point was simply that even something remotely positive is turned into ‘pakistan is evil’.

The best example is an uneducated poor peasant woman fighting for election against a local landowner. It was a truly touching story. She probably would do better than our ‘educated’ representatives.

Perhaps, there should be a conditional requirement.. if you are wealthy (like most of our politicians) and you are still too ignorant to get an education– you are not allowed. If you are poor, there should be no degree requirement. I like this democracy but when will it start to work ???

As for our politicians, they sicken me.

Regards.

Posted by tupak_shakir | Report as abusive
 

Going by your yardstick, I can also assume that all Pakistanis (including you) experienced “shadenfreude” when they saw images of Indian women & children being massacared by your “non-state actors” in Mumbai in 2008 BUT I WON’T because I don’t go around passing judgment on people, I don’t know anything about.

– I have read enough of your comments to know better. You are a dedicated soldier for you cause… every cell in your body rages with hatred for pakistan and pakistanis. I hope someday this hatred consumes you.

Posted by tupak_shakir | Report as abusive
 

@”I have read enough of your comments to know better. You are a dedicated soldier for you cause… every cell in your body rages with hatred for pakistan and pakistanis. I hope someday this hatred consumes you”
Posted by tupak_shakir

Wow, you really do seem to know a lot about me! dedicated soldier of my cause? LMAO

The only thing consuming me after reading your comment, is laughter :)

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

I would say posting comments day and night, year after year, obsessing about another country is nothing to laugh about. This is a serious condition worthy of professional attention.

Posted by tupak_shakir | Report as abusive
 

If the activity of commenting on blogs, forums & boards needs professional attention, then the world needs enough shrinks to fill up Mars.
What you term as my “obsession” about your country, is actually very similar to the interest, a law abiding citizen has in a criminal outfit, whose activities threaten the neighborhood & the city. Besides, as an american tax-payer, I need to know where my hard earned $$$ are going.

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

Again, stream of baseless remarks from few commentators. Guys please bother to read the others’ comments before posting trash like this:

“The topic is about a half-way decent law in pak’s parliament. However, the neighbors find fault in even this.”
“blog being hijacked”

>> Who found fault with that system? The way I read it, people admired it and posted their opinions about minimum educational qualifications requirements and their reasoning behind it. I mean, how much blind hatred one should have before he starts missing something as obvious as this?

If you can’t post anything sensible, its perhaps better you post abusive words, derive your satisfaction, and go away rather than posting baseless gibberish and pretending you are participating in a discussion.

Posted by Seth09 | Report as abusive
 

Guys:

Ignore trash and focus on what needs attention.

Hoping for useful participation by Pakistanis!

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive
 

Indians,

Frankly spanking I see a lot of redundancy. If there is one comment sitting, I see no point posting another similar one. One can just support previous comment in a concise manner.

Point to me if I do.

Not trying to hijack moderator’s position here! :-)

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive
 

TYPO: “Frankly speaking I see a lot of redundancy.”

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive
 

Suqaib another rule.. Only Pakistani comments are baseless, irrelevant, insensible, trashy such as this thread:

Finding fault:
“Musharaff introduced that rule, so that the Punjabi elite can keep their grip on power to this day”

Irrelevance:
It’s hardly a secret but this is what average Pakistanis think about the terror attacks in their country:
LAHORE: On Friday, after the latest attacks in Lahore’s Data shrine

Insults & generalizations:
It is sad to see Pakistani’s not understand the depth of their ignorance.

But still Pakistani’s are choosing to be willfully blind to not self-admit and realize that their butchers are the actual men in beards who call themselves muslims

Posted by tupak_shakir | Report as abusive
 

@ Shakir

Salaam. You wrote :
” Perhaps, there should be a conditional requirement.. if you are wealthy (like most of our politicians) and you are still too ignorant to get an education– you are not allowed. If you are poor, there should be no degree requirement.”

Good point. Provisions like these have to be made to allow for a proper adjustment by our political workers. Another fair method might be to pass a binding resolution to introduce the law at an adequate date in the future (e.g. five years from now). This will give enough time to our politicians to get genuine HEC approved degrees in time.

Degrees acquired through university ‘open courses’ and distance learning etc should also be considered valid for meeting the requirements of the law (if they are not considered so already).

” I like this democracy but when will it start to work ?? ”

Kufr ka nizaam chal saktaa hai lekin zulm ka nizaam kabhee naheen chal saktaa. I think Hazrat Ali (RA) said that 1400 years ago. It was true then, and it is true now.

No system will work in Pakistan unless it provides our people with justice, security and social welfare. These are the burning issues in Pakistan right now, not this ‘fake degree’ drama. Don’t lose hope brother. We are a tough and honourable people and we will get there whatever the obstacles may be.

Salaam

Posted by Shuqaib.Bhutto | Report as abusive
 

There are some other good laws. 10 seats are Reserved for religious minorities and 60 for women. This has allowed hindus and christians to represent the country in the supreme legislative body. I would like to see the number of religious minorities increased to 20 at the expense of women’s allotment (there are 80 now).

I was at a dinner and someone had a good point. We should be patient with our civilian govt. to run through its course regardless of their performance. First administration will be bad, second will be bad but hopefully the third will learn. Once they are voted out of their positions by the people instead of the army, the politicians will learn to to govern. (in all fairness, the fickle population often invites and welcomes the army when the politicians are at a dead-end)

I also hope our political parties become less ethnocentric. This is already happening to some degree but I would like to see it improve. I would like to see a visionary statesmen but there seems to be no one worthy in the pipeline.

I do like Sherry Rahman (because she resigned on principal), Mustafa kamal (doing good work in karachi), Imran Khan (won the world cup! lol). if we must have dynastic politics, i like fatima bhutto. (she has little experience but lives in pakistan unlike bilawal). I even liked shaukat aziz cool demeanor and credentials (but like all, he is touched by controversy) Speaking of degrees not being a good criteria – how about the saint abdul sattar edhi in government?? he would not take it.

One thing for sure… as always no Mullahs.

Posted by tupak_shakir | Report as abusive
 

I do like Sherry Rahman (because she resigned on principal

Posted by tupak_shakir
==

That should be “principle” not “principal”.

Your feel good propaganda posts barely hide the realities of pakistan.

Here is the text of recently passed (much celebrated in pak press) 18th amendment

http://www.na.gov.pk/passed_bill/passed_ bill_2010/constitution_eighteenth_am endment_act2010_080410.pdf

On page 22: Meet on the 21st day ,and without debate immediately proceed to elect one of is MUSLIM members to be prime minister. What if on 19th day by some mistake a hidden Hindu gets elected to be Prime Minister of pakistan?!!

What if you are not careful… let the days go by and by accident on the 23rd day a hidden Christian is elected to be PM accidentally!!!!!

The 18th amendment protects Pakistan from these dangerous possibilities.

Posted by Seekeroftruth | Report as abusive
 

That should be “principle” not “principal”.

Thanks. Please see your corrections in bracketed lower case notes. – The grammar gestapo.

Your feel good propaganda posts barely hide the realities of pakistan.
[p should be capitalized]
[feel good should be hyphenated]

Here is the text of recently passed (much celebrated in pak press) 18th amendment
[pak should be capitalized with a full stop to indicate abbreviation]
[amendment should be followed by a colon]

http://www.na.gov.pk/passed_bill/passed_ bill_2010/constitution_eighteenth_am endment_act2010_080410.pdf

On page 22: Meet on the 21st day ,and without debate immediately proceed to elect one of is MUSLIM members to be prime minister. What if on 19th day by some mistake a hidden Hindu gets elected to be Prime Minister of pakistan?!!

[22 should be followed by a comma not a colon]
[p should be capitalized. multiple exclamation points are redundant]

What if you are not careful… let the days go by and by accident on the 23rd day a hidden Christian is elected to be PM accidentally!!!!!

[question mark after careful]
[multiple exclamation points are redundant]

The 18th amendment protects Pakistan from these dangerous possibilities.

[excerpts should be in quotes. omissions should be indicate with an ellipsis]

Let he without grammar mistake cast the first stone.

Typical.

Posted by tupak_shakir | Report as abusive
 

Shuqaib,

See last post. your point was proven. one law is cited so that entire system/nation/parliament can be vilified.

Maybe we should create a ceremonial position and call it something regal such as “president” and make this office a revolving door for minorities. Surely, marketing tokenism is preferable to 70 fully empowered legislators.

Dear Reuters, please post a negative article on pakistan already… The regulars are getting restless.

Posted by tupak_shakir | Report as abusive
 

LOL!
Tupak why so much freaking out just for pointing out one mistake. It was incorrect use of word, not grammar! kya angrezi nahin pada pakistan mein, kafi “pakistan studies”.!

you wrote “Maybe we should create a ceremonial position and call it something regal such as “president” and make this office a revolving door for minorities.”

-why such megalomania? you don’t have any non-muslim minorities left in “Pakistan”. Why are you not able to try tokenism?

The Mission enquired: “You meant to say these minorities will be hostages”

Jinnah said: “Exactly. If one state mistreats its minorities, the other state will retaliate against its minorities. It will be tit for tat”.

The mission was aghast at this reply and remarked: “That is a horrible concept which did not work even in medieval times.”

The above is an excerpt from Rafiq Zakaria’s book on Jinnah.page 108, The Man Who Divided India.

The problem Jinnah’s pakistan is facing today is theren’t enough Hindus (or Sikhs) to be hunted or to be held hostages as desired by the Quaid. That’s why Ahmedis are the target. The only available targets!!!

Posted by Seekeroftruth | Report as abusive
 

Tupak why so much freaking out just for pointing out one mistake. It was incorrect use of word, not grammar! kya angrezi nahin pada pakistan mein, kafi “pakistan studies”.!

–Spelling is a subset of grammar. It was not a spelling mistake. It was the inappropriate usage of a correctly spelled h/phone.

You tried to be cute but only managed to humiliate yourself by making a dozen grammar mistakes. I hope you have learned your lesson.

Much to our own detriment, we don’t value the language of our former colonial masters. To this day, we play games where equestrians at full speed pick up little clay models of the queen’s soldiers at the tip of a spear. You have not lived until you have witnessed games such as buzkashi and polo in chitral but I digress.

I can forget your mistakes in a foreign language but I can never forgive your butchering of Urdu above.

Regarding your unprovoked comments about egalitarianism in Pakistan, I would like to remind you of thousands of years of caste system brutality that exists to this very day in your utopia. I don’t care what your constitution says, 200 million of your countrymen are treated worse than waste for generations.

Slinging mud is a dirty business, isn’t it?

Posted by tupak_shakir | Report as abusive
 

It’s fairly obvious, the overpopulation of Indians won’t allow a civil discussion here.

Shuqaib, they are all yours.

Posted by tupak_shakir | Report as abusive
 

@ Shakir

I have answers to your questions and some questions of my own but for whatever reason (technical difficulty, moderator clampdown) I seem unable to post them. I will try one more time, but in case it does’nt work, my advice to you is to ignore the hate mongers. These poor hijackers suffer from an insecurity driven obsession with Pakistan. They don’t have much of a life either so they take it out on everyone around them (including their fellow Hidustanis).

Posted by Shuqaib.Bhutto | Report as abusive
 

Somebody is suffering from multiple personality syndrome:

Shuqaib.Bhutto + tupak_shakir = mirzausman

(IP address check)

Posted by johnvoxx | Report as abusive
 

Hijackers with no life, eh? I also enjoyed that brother-brother salutations. :) I don’t think western minds can notice the irony behind it.

No wonder some factions in your country are so opposed to democracy. Well! So should we expect PakReuters after PakBook now?

PS: Who is johnvoxx? One of the Reuters moderator? If yes, thank you!

Posted by Seth09 | Report as abusive
 

@ Shakir. Salaam.

What you wrote about increasing the allotement for minorities is practical. Another approach would be to take 10 or 20 seats from the women’s allotments and reserve them specifically for women from the minorities? That would increase minority representation without sacrificing the women’s allotments. What do you think?

What you wrote about our system running its course is spot on. Democracy is definitely a journey, not a destination. The longer we stay on the road, the better our system will become over time.

Judicial independence is but one step. Unless our police are reformed and empowered to do their jobs, until then our system will flounder.

Taxation too is a mess. Remember the Ridda wars. The main purpose behind the Ridda wars was maintain taxation as well as policing powers.

Posted by Shuqaib.Bhutto | Report as abusive
 

continued…

Regrding the mullahs, democracy is to them what a good antiseptic is to germs. The only time they do well at the ballot box is when the main parties are sidelined by our latest tinpot saviour.

They do not offer any practical solutions, they know jack about economics and governance, and they interpret our religion in the most regressive ways imaginable.

When Musharaf appointed Jamali as our PM, their only criticism of this move was that Jamali saheb’s beard was not long enough. I think that says everything about the mentality of these folks.

Posted by Shuqaib.Bhutto | Report as abusive
 

Six MNAs and eleven MPAs have so far resigned. This could get very ugly considering the fact that close to 260 members are being scrutinized.
http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.a sp?id=249005

Posted by Shuqaib.Bhutto | Report as abusive
 

Shuqaib. vs.

Minorities as part of the women allotment is an excellent idea. a nation is judged by how it treats its weakest and we have a very long way to go. Here, we could learn from the west on how they treat their disabled. If we don’t want to look at the west, we need not go further than Islam. Where are our bearded-ones to propose progressive laws per Islamic spirit on protecting the weak? They are too busy with scales measuring beards.

Here is a Tax Schedule proposal:

Military and Politician Billionaires – Your wealth is obviously ill-gotten so 95% lump tax on all assets..

‘Halal’ Entrepreneurs (textile), self-made businessmen – 40% income tax

Oligarchs – 50% income tax

Rich – 30% income tax. 5% property tax.

Middle & Lower Class – No further taxes, How about social services for a change?

I am shocked that are politicians are resigning. I never thought there would come a day when our politicians would resign voluntarily. This is refreshing.

Posted by tupak_shakir | Report as abusive
 

@Johnvoxx

You said:

“Somebody is suffering from multiple personality syndrome:

Shuqaib.Bhutto + tupak_shakir = mirzausman

(IP address check)”

I’m still curious to find out if it comes from a moderator?

Posted by Seth09 | Report as abusive
 

Seth,

Are you really so lacking in friendship and hobbies, purpose and recreation, companionship or romance, that you dream up delusional conspiracies about a pakistani having a conversation with himself about electoral laws in a subversive attempt to undermine India?

Are you people seriously insane?

Posted by tupak_shakir | Report as abusive
 

The voluntary resignation of our politicians is very refreshing…but also a bit unnerving. Keep in mind the total number that are under investigation. If a significant number of resignations occur (forced or voluntary), then we might be headed towards more than just a mini-midterm. I wonder if we can really afford this kind of political instability right now?

” Military and Politician Billionaires – Your wealth is obviously ill-gotten so 95% lump tax on all assets..”

I think this will give a collective heart attack to all our ‘lotas’ . All the more reason to do it perhaps :)

Speaking of lotas, the ‘king lota’ gives his two cents. http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_deta il.asp?Id=29772
I wonder what the punishment under Hudood law is for being as stupid as this guy.

Posted by Shuqaib.Bhutto | Report as abusive
 

@tupak_shakir

Are you ret_ard or something? It was posted by some Johnvoxx. I did not believe it hence inquired to confirm it since there is a possibility. If you did not get a chance to read the that chusman, he was a total nut-case and brought the entire blog down last week before he was span_ked by keystrokes by people like you and me and then moderators.

As for that Johnvoxx guy – unless he confirms himself, his claim would be ruled out. Can’t you even see that?

Posted by Seth | Report as abusive
 

Post Your Comment

We welcome comments that advance the story through relevant opinion, anecdotes, links and data. If you see a comment that you believe is irrelevant or inappropriate, you can flag it to our editors by using the report abuse links. Views expressed in the comments do not represent those of Reuters. For more information on our comment policy, see http://blogs.reuters.com/fulldisclosure/2010/09/27/toward-a-more-thoughtful-conversation-on-stories/
  •