Pakistan: Now or Never?

kpsingh,

if you are interested in an answer i think i have. of course we care for muslims. what pak authority did to bengal is unforgivable. but we people of pakistan love bengalis, always have, always will. the sense of ummah might not be strong among nations but it is among people. we don’t want to see anything bad happen to uighurs, kurds etc.

but you can’t compare them to kashmir. kashmir are our kinfolk. that is why we care for them more. is this really THAT hard to understand? we think we are the same people. only indians can deny the links kashmir has with north pakistan as opposed to india (which had to connive with mountbatten to steal gurduspur, the only link with India) the cowbelt (no offense) has nothing in common with india. kashmiris culture, looks, style is similar to northeast pakistanis.

you love your family first, your extended family next etc.

t is Indians – all Indians, all 1.1 billion of them – who will decide the fate of Kashmir. Not a few million Kashmiri muslims full of hatred towards the kufr democracy call India and hatred towards kufr hindus – which they demonstrated by ethnic cleansing their Kashmiri Pandit brothers 2 decades back.

Who are the 1 million Indian soldiers who are fighting Kashmiri separatists, killing them, sending them via speed post to their 72 virgins ? Sons of farmers, small time businessmen, traders, school teachers in rural India and semi-urban India. You kill one, 100 more will compete to take his place.
–

Your anger, although justified, is somewhat misdirected. The culprit here is not kashmiri muslims but the ‘failed terrorist state’ of Pakistan. Kashmir was peaceful until Pakistani terrorists started crossing over & the people who killed kashmiri hindus & sikhs were not kashmiris but Pakistani punjabis. Don’t confuse Pakistani ranters like this tupak_shakir fellow with Indian kashmiris. They can rant & whine all they want but they DON’T speak for kashmiris, who have absolutely no love for Pakistan. The only villain here is Pakistan!

—- Too late for damage control. your murderous intentions for kashmiris were known well before your alleged copy and paste. disgusting.

upac-shakir: “another source could be the kashmiri flags being waved in london during pak/australia match everytime boom-boom hit a boundary…

what are these ISI planted agents doing at a cricket match?”

No. But the ISI sowed the

— I knew the ISI was involved. who is delusional, you or us?

who is full of hate, you or us?

Posted by tupak_shakir

Who cares about who has more hate!

Bottom-line: Keep the activities of your state & non-state terrorist actors, restricted to within your failed state & I can assure you that nobody will give a cr*p about you or your country. It’s as simple as that!

Hyderabad has a fabulous airport! lol. who cares?

At the time of the British withdrawal from the Sub-continent and its partition, into India and Pakistan, the numerous princely states like Kashmir, Hyderabad and Junagadh were given the option to join either India or Pakistan. States in which rulers were from the same religion as their populace had no trouble deciding. Hindu states acceded to India and Muslim states naturally went to Pakistan. However in the aforementioned states the rulers belonged to a different religion than that of their respective populations and there was a clash of interest. The Muslim rulers of Hindu Junagadh acceded to Pakistan and that of Hyderabad wanted to remain independent. But the Indian army soon overran these states and annexed them. ?The Hindu Maharajah of Muslim Kashmir wanted to remain independent but his people wanted union with Pakistan, which had come into existence as a result of a union of the Muslim majority areas of pre-partition India. Maharajah’s refusal to do so led to disturbances and widespread protests and his subsequent flight from his capital. His subsequent attempts to effect a crackdown failed and he turned to India for help, which immediately invaded the state (27 Oct, 1947). Later the Indians claimed that the Maharajah had acceded to India. There was no public comment from the Maharajah.?However as Alistair Lamb, a journalist of world repute, reports in his in-depth study of the dispute (Jammu & Kashmir; summary of which is available as “The myth of Indian claim to Jammu & Kashmir”), the chronology of events as reported by the Indian government leading to the signing of the “Instrument of Accession”, is fraught with obvious inaccuracies and lies. In fact, to date, no satisfactory original of the “Instrument of Accession” has been produced. Realizing the dubious nature of the ‘accession’ would spark world-wide protests, Indians declared that the “Instrument of Accession” executed by the Maharajah was “provisional” and subject to a “reference to the people”. Indeed in a broadcast on ?All-India Radio on 2nd November 1947, the first Indian prime minister, Jawaharlal Nehru pledged “We have declared that the fate of Kashmir is to be ultimately decided by the people. That pledge we have given, and the Maharajah has supported it, not only to the people of Kashmir but to the world. We will not and cannot back out of it”. Similar statements were also given by him at other forums, including the Indian parliament, and are on record ?Sir, how ironic and sad is the fact that this pledge, given by the first prime minister of world’s largest democracy and further mandated by the United Nations, as is clear from the statement the President of Security Council of the UN made on 28 January, 1948, remains unfulfilled to this day 46 years later. The above mentioned address by the President of the Security Council reflected the various General Assembly and Security Council resolutions which emphasized that the accession of Kashmir to either India or Pakistan shall be decided by a fair and impartial plebiscite conducted under the aegis of the United Nations. The forceful subjugation by Indian troops was rejected by the Kashmiri people and this has resulted in constant upheavals and revolts against the Indian occupation in the last four and a half decades. This problem has caused two out of three Indo-Pakistani wars. Now this uprising has reached a decisive point and India has resorted to deploying 700,000 troops (50% of its total army and greater than the entire Army of neighboring Pakistan) against the civilian population of that small state which numbers less than 4 million people. ?even this horrifying imbalance of 1 soldier for every 6 Kashmiris (majority of whom are old men, women and children) has failed to suppress the freedom movement. Kashmir is under direct President’s rule since 1990, after the state legislature was dissolved (the federally appointed governor had admitted that the Kashmiri legislature had a history of rigged elections). The nature of State-sponsored terrorism is exemplified by such unbelievable laws as “The Armed Forces (J&K) Special Powers Bill (1990), which have been passed by the parliament of world’s largest “democracy”. This Bill grants authorization to members of Indian Security Forces to “fire upon or otherwise use force, even to the causing of death against any person” without fire orders. 130,000 people have been brutally murdered by the Indian Security Forces in the past 20 years and thousands more have been intimidated and terrorized. Pakistanis believe this is state-sponsored terrorism. The Indian security forces have flouted all norms of civilized conduct. Kashmiri youths have been murdered in cold blood in fake encounters and Kashmiri women of all ages were and are gang-raped in the prescence of their families. International human rights organizations and the international press has been refused entry into the State by the Indian government. They can only visit the ?These human rights organization like Amnesty International and Asia Watch constantly report of indescribably inhumane treatment meted out to Kashmiris in government run torture cells and elsewhere. ?While the world has responded to the Bosnia and Kuwait, it has so far failed to act to stop an even greater problem of abuse of human rights and mass genocide of Kashmiris by an invading army. It seems that commercial interests have taken precedence over the dignity of human life.

Q: How many resolutions have so far been adopted by the Security Council on Kashmir? How many of them clearly spell out the prescription for the settlement of the dispute?
A: The Security Council has so far adopted 18 resolutions directly or indirectly dealing with the Kashmir dispute, the latest being resolution 1172 adopted in 1998, which while addressing the nuclearization of South Asia urges Pakistan and India in its para 5 to find mutually acceptable solutions that address the root causes of tensions (between them) including Kashmir.

Q: India says that the resolutions on Kashmir have lost their relevance. It further contends that the resolutions are not binding on it. How far is this true?

A: Legally and politically it is not correct. No UNSC resolution can lose its relevance unless the Security Council adopts another resolution calling for its supercession for whatever reasons. This has been confirmed by the UNSG in a Statement on 6 January 1994.??Politically, the resolutions on Jammu and Kashmir have become even more relevant because of the on-ground political situation in Jammu and Kashmir where a legitimate freedom struggle is being suppressed by the Indian army and the situation now poses a grave danger to international peace and security.??India charged Pakistan of committing aggression against India. But it based its complaint on article 35 of Chapter VI of the UN Charter which relates to the “Pacific Settlement of Disputes” and not Chapter VII which deals with acts of aggression. Subsequently, India tried to evade the provisions of the resolution adopted by the Security Council saying that the resolutions were passed under Chapter VI and not under Chapter VII and as such its recommendations were not binding on it.??Contrary to India’s distorted logic, under international law all UNSC resolutions which confirm agreements reached among the parties to a dispute-as was the case in Kashmir- become legally binding on all parties concerned- in this case India, Pakistan and the UN.

Q: What decision did the Security Council take in its resolutions?

A: Through its resolutions 47 (1948), later reaffirmed by resolutions 51 (1948), 80 (1950), 91(1951) 122 (1957), the UNSC decided that the final disposition of Jammu and Kashmir will be made in accordance with the will of the people expressed through a UN supervised plebiscite.

Q: Why was this decision not implemented?

A: UNSC resolution 47 of 21 April 1948 called for “the withdrawal from the State of Jammu and Kashmir of tribesmen and Pakistani national not normally resident therein” and the reduction of Indian forces in the state to “minimum strength required” in order to facilitate a plebiscite. The Security Council modified its decision by resolution 98 of 23 December 1952 which provided for synchronized reduction of troops on both sides of the ceasefire line to 3000 to 6000 on the Pakistani side and 12000 to 18000 on the Indian side. Pakistan agreed, India did not. India’s reluctance to demilitarize the State of Jammu and Kashmir was confirmed by Sir Owen Dixon, Head of the UN Commission for India and Pakistan (UNCIP), in his report to the Security Council on 15 September 1950. He sated that, “in the end I became convinced that India’s agreement would never be obtained to demilitarization in any form or to provisions governing the period of plebiscite of an such character, as would in my opinion, permit the plebiscite being conducted in conditions sufficiently guarding against intimidation and other forms of influence and abuse by which freedom and fairness of the plebiscite might be imperiled”.

@we think we are the same people. only indians can deny the links kashmir has with north pakistan as opposed to india (which had to connive with mountbatten to steal gurduspur, the only link with India) the cowbelt (no offense) has nothing in common with india. kashmiris culture, looks, style is similar to northeast pakistanis.

Posted by tupak_shakir

Another delusional but humorous distortion of facts!

Who are these “northeast pakistanis” that kashmiris are similar to?

Punjabis – similar to indian punjabis, not kashmiri
Pashtuns – afghans & pathans, not kashmiri
Sindhis – similar to indian sindhis, not kashmiri
Muhajirs – originally from northern india, not kashmiri
Balochs – same as Balochs from iran, not kashmiri

That only leaves the kashmiris living in PoK, which are app. 1% of the pakistani population.

So, indian kashmiri muslims have nothing in common with you except their religion, which they also have in common with the 150 million Indians.

Bravo Blacksabbath3!

Pashtuns – afghans & pathans, not kashmiri

—–Want to live in free and united Pashtunistan!

Sindhis – similar to indian sindhis, not kashmiri

—-Want to live in Sindudesh
Muhajirs – originally from northern india, not kashmiri
—-want to live in Jinnahpur..

Balochs – same as Balochs from iran, not kashmiri
—-want to live in Free Balochistan

That only leaves the kashmiris living in PoK, which are app. 1% of the pakistani population.
—–oppressed people!

So, indian kashmiri muslims have nothing in common with you except their religion, which they also have in common with the 150 million Indians.

—-chakka mara!!

Language – don’t forget language…

Kashmiri or Koshur is an Indo-Aryan language with about 4.5 million speakers in India, Pakistan and the UK. The Kashmiri alphabet was adopted from the Urdu version of the Arabic script.

Religion same

Looks same.

speaking of Geographical continuity — reason for india to roll over junagadh and hyderabad. geographically kashmir is much more contiguous to pakistan than india especially without the theft of gurduspur.

majority of pakistanis look like the beautiful kashmiris.

majority of indians don’t look like kashmiris.

kashmiris have aryan looks and majority indians have australoid features.

In response to questions over why the demographics of Kashmir have changed (Kashmir is now estimated to be 64% Muslim.), he reminds readers that it is estimated that over 4 million Muslims have fled Indian occupied Kashmir since 1947. Despite the exodus, civilians in Indian controlled Kashmir still have great ethnic similarities to Pakistan, as noted by famed historian Richard Reeves, in Passage to Peshawar describing his experience in the region: “When I crossed from peshawar to Azad Kashmir, in Pakistan, to Kashmir in India – across the disputed northeastern border established after the countries’ 1948 war – the people looked the same. They should have, because many of them were cousins of Pakistanis and practiced the same religion.”

it is silly to provide proof kashmiris and north pakistan similarities…

if you want to believe that kashmiris are like tamils then go for it…

It should read as Kashyap in the above comment.

Sorry, but attitude like yours makes the Indian resolve even stronger
-
couldn’t agree more KPSingh. Sigh..I have to scroll down(without reading them ) tupak’s latest outbursts to respond to Singh’s very enlightening post.

Bro, we need more Pakistani brothers like you to help us continuously highlight our pain/misery/trauma/debauchery/cruelty/at rocities/state sponsored terrorism/ at the hands of Indian Terrorist army/government.

I once had to sit outside on the road adjoining our locality for 72 hours alongwith approx 3000 other civilians with no food/water/blankets as BSF conducted house to house searches and paraded us in front of Mukhbirs(Informers) to ascertain whether we needed to be interrogated further, My cousin who is the most harmless individual that I know of was picked up, tortured for 15 days and left half dead on a road after we paid a heavy bribe of 80,000 rupees to a BSF captain. HE (THE CAPTAIN) knew that my cousin was innocent but extortion was the order of the day n my aunt sold her jewelery to get the amount for the bribe. The sad part is that Indians think their army/government/administration are beyond doing anything wrong and that’s why they keep branding us all as Terrorists and wrong doers.

Brother, I am proud of the fact that we still have people like you on our side and as long as we Kashmiris believe in GOd, we will continue highlighting our pain/anguish/trauma/struggle against the Indians. Sadly the World today is polarised against Muslims but Justice will come our way……IT HAS TO.

– kashmiri blogger

I agree with all of the above but I believe our biggest and strongest advantage would be a strong/powerful/prosperous Pakistan. We Kashmiris need Pakistan to stay strong and prosperous, In my humble opinion that should be our first goal…..everything else comes second. And any leadership like that of Musharaf/Zardari who sold everything to the Indians and got nothing in return must be vehemently/ferociously discouraged.

– kashmiri blogger

After former Yugoslavia, it is India’s turn to naturally disintegrate (I cannot wait until the day when we can finally refer to India as “former India”). Just imagine, had the former unnatural federation of balkan states, called Yugoslavia, not unravelled, we would still be witnessing the grotesque bloodshed that the Serbs perpetrated during the 80′s and 90′s.

The war in former Yugoslavia resulted in a genocide perpetrated by the Serbs against Bosnians, which parallels what the Nazis did to minorities. In one instance, Serbs sequestered 5000 Bosnian Muslim men, and shot them execution style–all the while, the world stood by silently.

In comparison, India has massacred ten times more Kashmiris, and the same–if not worse–horrors are being unleashed by them on Kashmiris and yet the world is again standing by silently.

Over a 100,000 martyred Kashmiris, mass graves, mass rapes, kidnapping, murders, torture–all perpetrated by India; what else do the Kashmiri have to suffer through to get the world’s attention?

Not only must the world censure India for it’s heinous acts in Kashmir, the world must also move toward policies that call for India’s disintegration. They should do this to ensure world peace. The Balkans is a peaceful region now only because Croatia, Serbia, Macedonia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, and Kosovo are independent of each other, instead of being hobbled together to form an unnatural federation called Yugoslavia. Allowing Yugoslavia to function as a federation of unwilling states would have been a crime against democratic principles and a crime against humanity–and we would have witnessed hundreds of thousands more deaths. The world community took decisive action, and thus prevented more horrors. Similarly, each state that seeks secession from India must be allowed to declare independence in order for there to be peace in South Asia. The similarities between former Yugoslavia and the forced union of states called India are self evident.

India is a country that should never have come into existence in the first place. It is an amalgamation of states with entirely different ethnicities, religions, languages and cultures that would have never come together naturally, freely, in a democratic way. The only reason why it exists within its current borders is that first the Mughals and later the British conquered successive smaller nations to create this monolith called India–held together then and even now by sheer military power and untenable repression.

Currently, India is a federation of unwilling states–an unnatural entity which will crumble under its own weight of repressive policies. A country standing on the might of its illiterate, poverty stricken, ignorant, and gullible population to subjugate Kashmir and other states seeking freedom is a crime against all humanity. The Indians are using their only source of power–the sheer number of their military, whom they recruit straight out of slums–to subjugate secessionist states, and also to occupy and invade neighbouring states such as Kashmir.

Assam, Jharkand, Punjab, Sikkim, Hyderabad, Maharashtra: just to name a few states where there are strong secessionist sentiments and active groups seeking secession for their respective states. This unnatural amalgamation of ethnically disparate regions would never have come together to form any sort of federation that would require them to relenquish the sovereignty of their states.

This unnatural imperial leftover of a mess called India has caused millions of deaths if we add up the casualties of India’s suppression of all the secessionist movements in Assam, Punjab, Jharkand, and Kashmir combined. Is it worth to let this exercise in modern day imperialism to survive without threat of more deaths, more misery, and more subjugation of peaceful freedom seeking people? Above all, is it humane to witness India’s grotesque tactic of befooling their gullible, poverty stricken population by spending billions upon billions on their military when a majority of Indians cannot even get a decent meal or clean drinking water?

India must disintegrate for the sake of world peace and humanity. Any more “wait and see” approach chosen by the world community will only result in more deaths, mass graves, mass rapes, and torture perpetrated by the most hideous of all countries in the world–India.

– kashmiri blogger

Tupak_shakir,

It’s sad that you harbour such fantasies. It’s like a man who hopes his neughbour’s marriage falls apart so he can steal his neighbour’s wife. What lessons of charity must you have learned in your youth.

One quibbling detail you ignore. Yugoslavia fell apart when Tito died. They needed a Strongman to keep them together. India’s had democracy for awhilr now and the risk of them coming apart seems to be decreasing.

If you looked are the Failed States index, Pakistan is at a significantly higher risk than India of coming apart. You should worry about that before daydreaming about the Balkanization if India.

http://alaiwah.wordpress.com/2010/01/26/ ahrc-kashmiris-disappearing-in-azad-kash mir/

Read this Asian Human Rights Commission report what is happening to Kashmiris in POK.

AHRC: Kashmiris Disappearing in Azad Kashmir

“There are reports that dozens of people are missing after their arrest by the intelligence agencies, operating in Pakistani part of Kashmir, the Azad Kashmir.

“It is reported that the people were arrested when they left the Jihad (holy war) inside Indian held Kashmir or stopped providing information to the intelligence agencies about the movements of people across the borders of the Pakistan.

“The majority of the disappeared persons were residing along the control line, a border line between India and Pakistan, dividing disputed Kashmir, which stretches up to 350 kilo meters. The people residing along the control line are able to enter Indian Territory for their business and they were used by the intelligence agencies as their couriers.

“The intelligence agencies particularly, the ISI, is accused of training and sending people inside Indian held Kashmir for Jihad or providing information of militants working inside other part of Kashmir.

“The family members of the disappeared people are also stating that when people, who worked for intelligence agencies, leave the Jihad and return to their normal lives they are nabbed by the ISI and shifted to unknown places as punishment for not working in the interests of national security.

“There are also reports that some missing persons, who were sent to collect information from Indian Kashmir, were also hired for smuggling liquor and other Indian items when they come back to Pakistani Kashmir after completing their assignments.

“During the past six months, the whereabouts of 15 people arrested by the security forces are not known. They were arrested by security persons in plain clothe from different parts of the Tehsil Kotli along the Indian borders. Among them are six persons who were trained in the camp at Solna village, Kotli and had left the holy war. The family members of Altaf, Qadeer, Qasim, Mushtaq, a resident of refugee camp at Solna area, Kotli, who were disappeared after their arrest by security forces, say that they were told by the local office of ISI that the persons are with them and will be released soon. However, to date no one has been released.

“The political parties, particularly the United Kashmir Peoples National Party (UKPNP), claim that the people were previously trained for holy war for across the border.

“One person named of Sher Khan was killed in the month of November 2009 during his custody. He was involved in the abduction case of Rabia Saeed, the daughter of Mufti Saeed, former chief minister of Indian held Kashmir and was sentenced along with five persons in Sri Nagar.

After his release he came to Pakistan and resided in the Solna area and was picked up, allegedly by the ISI, as was told to his family, and kept there for more than one year. In November his bullet riddled body was found in bushes.

“Jehangir, son of Sabir, resident of Charhoi, Kotli sub district, was arrested by intelligence officers in March 2009, since then his whereabouts are unknown. A writ petition of habeas corpus was filed before the Azad Kashmir high court but there is still no news about him. His family was told after his arrest that he is in the local ISI office and will be released soon.

“Amjad, son of Mohammad Khan, resident of Leepa tehsil, Muzafarabad district, was serving in the Pakistan army as soldier and was arrested in September 2009 by persons from the security forces, who introduced themselves as ISI, and since then his whereabouts are unknown. The reason of his disappearance is not known but it is generally said that it is because of his work in favour of families of disappeared persons. Once he also sent to other part of the Kashmir as Mujahid.

“Mohammad Aslam, son of Jan Mohammad, resident of Cherhoi, Kotli sub district, was arrested in July 2009 and has been missing since. His family says that it was informed by the security personals that he is with ISI but he has never been allowed to meet his family.

“Akram, son of Abdullah, resident of Khoi Ratta, Kotli district has also been missing for seven months. The security persons embarked at his house and identified themselves as personal from ISI. He previously worked for security forces providing information from Indian side of Kashmir about the working of militants inside Indian held Kashmir afterwards he left the volunteer job of informer for intelligence agencies.

“Masood, resident of Khoi Ratta, Kotli district, has been missing since May 2009 after his arrest by the plain clothes persons, who informed the family that they were from ISI. He was previously Mujahid and was trained for holy war.

“Mr. Kabir Hasan Shah, resident of Sandok, Neelum district, was whisked away in October 2009, allegedly by the ISI personnel and was kept incommunicado for more than three months on charges of making telephone calls from passing bye telephone able wire which belonged to ISI. He was released in the second week of January 2010 after severe torture. The officials of ISI have taken assurance from the family for his release he will not talk anybody on his disappearance. He did not know that the telephone cable was in the use of ISI. He used to talk with his girl friend through the line. He was an activist of United Kashmir Peoples National Party (UKPNP).

“Mr. Naveed Ahmed Khan, another activist of UKPNP, was arrested in the month of November allegedly by the officials of ISI, on the accusation of taking photos of Jihadi training camps in Pallandi, Sudhanti district. He was kept in the custody of the ISI for more than two months and was interrogated for taking photos in the area where training camps are operative. He was released on January 19, after no pictures of the training camp were found in his possession.

“The disappearances by the state intelligence agencies have become a common phenomenon in Pakistan since the war on terror. The intelligence agencies enjoy impunity because of their direct link with Pakistan armed forces and no state institution or authority has the power to bring them before the law. The intelligence agencies have freedom to launch the Jihad in side neighbouring countries and for that reasons they hire members of the local population and send them for holy war in the name of Islam. In the province of NWFP, according to different human rights organizations, more than 1000 persons are missing and most of the families of the victims blame the intelligence agencies for arresting the persons and their disappearances. In Balochistan, where there is a strong nationalist movement, the people also blame Pakistani intelligence agencies for the disappearances of more than 4000 persons. Many persons from Balochistan province, who were kept incommunicado in military torture cells, testified before the courts that they were arrested by the ISI and military intelligence, the MI.

“The Asian Human Rights Commission urges the parliament and its human rights committee to hold an inquiry in to the incidents of disappearances in the Azad Kashmir, the Pakistan part of the Kashmir, where people were used as the Muhajid (holy warriors) or informers by the intelligence agencies. It is shocking to know that when people leave the Jihad or stop working for intelligence agencies as informers they are arrested and kept incommunicado or disappeared. The government should prosecute those military officers who are responsible for disappearances of the folks.

“The disappearances of these people and keeping them incommunicado were not only the gross violation of the law of the land and constitution of Pakistan but also the international norms and human rights charter to which Pakistan is a signatory. The AHRC urges the authorities to release all the persons who have been missing for many years after their arrest by the state intelligence agencies. The members of the parliament should also urge the government to provide lists of those people who were killed or disappeared after their arrest by the state intelligence agencies and work for the safe recovery of the disappeared.

# # #
About AHRC: The Asian Human Rights Commission is a regional NGO monitoring and lobbying human rights issues in Asia.

Guys,

Can we change the tenor of these “discussions”? Every time I visit this blog, I see Indians untiringly providing proof of Pakistani evils, and Pakistanis venting about Indian sins. There are dire Indian predictions of Pakistan’s imminent demise, and fervent Pakistani hopes of India’s disintegration.

Don’t we get tired of typing the same stuff over and over again?

Let’s change tack, just for variety. It’s not going to alter anything on the ground, and no territory is going to be lost if we stop fighting for a while .

Let’s talk about possibilities. What are the best outcomes for the region in the years ahead? What does _our own side_ need to do to make it happen? (not what the other side needs to do)

Tupac_shakir seems to be one of the more thoughtful and articulate people to be blogging here on the Pakistani side, so it’s a good opportunity to engage in some level-headed discussion.

Nobody is perfect, and I’m sure the Indian army in Kashmir is not made up of angels. If we’re a genuine democracy, we shouldn’t be afraid of calling for impartial probes into allegations of rape and torture by army personnel. The recent corruption probe by Defence Minister AK Anthony drew praise from Pakistani sources. Some good can come out of the darkest deeds if a country can be seen to be sincere in addressing them. It may give Pakistanis the courage to address their own army’s wrongs in 1971 East Pakistan…

And for their part, Pakistanis would do well to realise that of all the people on this planet, the only foreigners who can look at them with anything like affection are Indians. For example, virtually every Indian here has sparred with Umair, but if anything actually happened to him in real life (God forbid), I’m sure they would all be genuinely saddened. There is a human bond that links us, even if we seem to spew bile at each other. Perhaps that’s why we keep coming back to engage, even if it isn’t particularly productive.

Let’s get out of the argumentative rut in which we seem to have got ourselves and try and look at the positives for a change. Even if other people provoke us, we can try and stay positive for a while. We’ve said everything we have to and achieved zero change in others’ positions. It’s time to try something different.

Regards,
Ganesh Prasad

KpSingh, you said:

“Thanks Rajeev for the posting on Azad Kashmir. I have never seen Myra or other Reuters writers mention about it. And they maintain silence when cornered with legitimate questions. We do not need their blessings or answers. We are discovering the truth ourselves. Pakistan has many Westerners in their payroll as well who write biased articles against India and project the lies even more. Unfortunately they have a lot more global clout and their influence controls the policy of the world powers.

Solution for Kashmir starts in Pakistan first – independence to Azad Kashmir and complete withdrawal of their military from there. If they really care for Kashmir’s freedom, let them start by giving it first”

–>Singh, while your heart is in the right place, you should refrain from pointing fingers over such things, I do take exception that you are lumping Myra, as though she is some sort of Pakistani paid author, I disagree with that and you should take that back and apologize.

Myra has extensive experience on the region and understands the issues in Af-Pak better than almost anyone. She has the tough job of having to keep these blogs interesting, without being too biased and has keep in mind that there are little to no Pakistani’s who frequent these blogs except Indians.

I think Myra is quite impartial and is doing an excellent job on this blog. Her work is quite respected.

Please apologize for your comments.

@Singh,

You can safely say, that PoK is occupied and culturally and religiously under seige of the Pakistani Army.

At this point, Kashmir does not really affect the west, so they will not force Pakistan to comply with their obligations, under the 1948 resolution.

Until the West chooses not to be so selectively moral, or pursue its own sole interests, the Pakistani’s will be allowed to continue terrorism or assymetrical warfare upon India, via Kashmir.

Unfortunately, Pakistan is continuing to radicalize and destroy the culture of Kashmiri’s.

G-W:

One cannot deny that mysteriously, Azad kashmir has remained discussed. I have pointed it multiple times in the past.

No one knows why.

@Myra,

That is a fair question that Rajeev has.

Will you open the topic of Pakistan’s so-called “Azad Kashmir”.

Let’s make the Kashmir discussion have true parity and not just focus on the Indian side.

Let’s see what happening on the Pakistani Occupied kashmir as well.

Fair is fair. If Kashmir is to be discussed, let’s give it equal weight as the Indian Kashmir, after all the people in PoK are Kashmiri’s too are they not?….or are we already considering them Pakistani’s?

What do yo say, Myra, does this proposition of equal discussion on BOTH sides of Kashmir does that not make sense? We are waiting for an answer.

As I said earlier Myra, I do believe that you are impartial.

The reason AJK is not compared to IOK is because there is no comparison. Indian hawks here are showing their desperation when they attempt to compare baluchistan or Azad Kashmir to Indian ‘administered’ kashmir. do you really want to compare rapes, murders, fake encounters in IOK to AJK? A kashmiri told me that you can get 2 years of jail for even non-violent protest.

Actually, I welcome Myra doing a neutral piece on AJK vs IOK. I guarantee you the Indian hate-brigade here will hate her more than before.

Even with a trillion terabytes of data on the internet, rajeev could only find an article in an indian news site about how kashmiris were protesting pakistan… he failed to mention that even in rajeev-picked example the kashmiris were also protesting indians.

Also Rajeev, settle down. I did not claim to be a kashmiri. Those excerpts are from kashmiri blogs about India — (Much easier to find than your attempts to find items on AJK)

GW, kpsingh was talking about abrogating the SPECIAL STATUS of Kashmir within the Indian disunion not abrogating to pakistani. you people have such a paranoid pak-reflex that I have to explain one hawkish indian to another even more hawkish indian.

Tupak:

@Even with a trillion terabytes of data on the internet, rajeev could only find an article in an indian news site about how kashmiris were protesting pakistan…”
–That is precisely the background with which UN human rights reports begins—-that the status of Kashmiris in India is well documented, such is not the case with “Azad Kashmir” in Pakistan clutches.

I will quote that again from UN Human rights report: “Human rights abuses by the Indian security forces and separatist forces in Jammu and Kashmir have been relatively well documented and often condemned. But the world knows little about Azad Kashmir, other than that the territory has been used by Pakistan-backed militant groups as a staging ground for attacks in Jammu and Kashmir.”

@that he failed to mention that even in rajeev-picked example the kashmiris were also protesting indians.”
–This tells what u do what u post –do not show any that has anti-Pak voice. Unlike you I do not attempt to hide what Kashmiris want to say.

this summarizes pretty much about India-Pakistan-Kashmir triangle:
”Pakistan says they are our friends and India is our enemy. I agree India is our enemy, but with friends like these, who needs enemies?”
–– Mir Afzal Suleri, Muzaffarabad resident