Pakistan’s General Kayani given three-year extension

July 22, 2010

kayani profilePakistan army chief, General Ashfaq Parvez  Kayani, is to be given a a three-year extension to his term of office to maintain continuity in the country’s battle against Islamist militants. 

Kayani, arguably Pakistan’s most powerful man, had been due to retire in November. His future had been the subject of intense speculation for months, with opinion divided between the those who argued he should be given an extension for the sake of continuity, and those who said that Pakistan needed to build its institutions rather than rely on individuals – as it had done with powerful army rulers in the past.

Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani, who announced the extension, said the decision to extend Kayani’s term reflected “his effective role in the war against terrorism and in the enforcement of rule of law in the country.”

Kayani is considered to have built a good working relationship with the United States - which needs the Pakistan Army’s help in fighting the Taliban and al Qaeda in Afghanistan – prompting speculation, denied by the U.S. embassy in Islamabad, that Washington had pressed for his term of office to be extended.

He has also been the subject of intense speculation in India, where the views of the army – which controls foreign and security policy even under a civilian government – are seen as crucial to determining the fate of the faltering India-Pakistan peace process.

A former head of the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) agency, Kayani has been credited with keeping the army out of politics on the whole.  Military analysts also say he has redefined “strategic depth” – an old policy under which Pakistan aimed to use Afghanistan as a rear base in the event of war with India – to suggest instead that the country’s strength should come from a strong economy at home. Yet under his tenure – both as the head of the ISI until 2007 and then as army chief – Pakistan has also been criticised for failing to take strong enough action against Islamist and Taliban militants.

Otherwise, relatively little is known about the thinking of the inscrutable general, who never gives public interviews. Pakistan, its neighbours and the United States and its allies fighting in Afghanistan, will now have another three years to find out.

Comments

A lot depends upon how the war efforts in Afghanistan will go. Taliban does not seem to be interested in coming to talks unless all foreign forces leave Afghanistan. Having come to defeat the Taliban, it will be a huge egg on the face of the Super power and its allies to follow the dictat of the Taliban. The US still has not given up its pursuit of weakening the Taliban. And it wants the Pak army to give up its protection for the Haqqani group. Things are hanging in a delicate balance now.

Pakistan’s goal would be to tough it out somehow and protect its long term assets hidden in the lawless lands of FATA and in Balochistan. Hillary Clinton has already said openly that some people in the ISI know where Bin Laden is and are protecting him. If the Americans manage to untie some of the knots, that can offset this delicate balance.

And that will bring pressure on the militants who might intensify their attacks on the Pak military and civilian establishments. A lot will depend upon how Kayani can hold his grip and manage to navigate through those difficult times. And such moments will bring in clashes. I will not be surprised if Kayani is forced to take over power at the center if things get out of control.

In all I’d say, Kayani is the best guy to be in charge of Pak military during this time period. All parties involved should be happy. Everyone hopes sincerely that a peaceful solution is found to the Afghan conflict soon so that chaos does not intensify. At the end, people need peace and normal life. Let us hope for the best.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

It is delicately balanced indeed.However, the deteriorating economic situation and internal security situation will limit pakistan’s plans for maneuvering. Purse strings controlled by US.

Posted by Seekeroftruth | Report as abusive
 

Men at their best! Pakistan Army

Posted by Umairpk | Report as abusive
 

“Men at their best! Pakistan Army”

Sure, why not!

Men at their best in conducting genocides!

Men at their best in conducting mass rapes!

Men at their best in creating & nurturing terrorism!

Men at their best in masking their own terrorists as ‘non-state actors’!

Men at their best in cheating, double-crossing & back-stabbing!

Men at their best in appearing to be your friend, while sleeping with your enemy!

Men at their best in losing wars & targeting civilians!

Men at their best in blackmailing the world with terrorism!

Men at their best in ruining a perfectly good country & making it a terrorist, beggar nation!

Men at their best, indeed!

Posted by Biohazard | Report as abusive
 

@ Umair. Salaam.

Isn’t it amazing how a perfectly civilized thread can get ruined with the appearance of just one single flamer with ‘daddy-never-hugged-me’ issues? Such people are like a ‘biohazard’ to the health of those sane individuals, who prefer posting their points of view in a rationale manner (rather then succumbing to hatred).

These sad, lonely virgins can only look forward to flaming the object of their ‘obsession’ (Pakistan) in order to derive a bit of self gratification in their dull call center lives. They believe they are doing a service to their own country by spreading disinformation about ours. They never realize for a minute how much damage they are actually causing their own country with their ‘obsessive compulsive’ behavior.

What amazes me most is the fact that these pathetic souls rarely ever post with their real names or even names which sound remotely like their own ethno-religious group. Perhaps, they do this because they have a massive inferiority complex about themselves and their country of origin. It is also quiet possible that they are very much ashamed of the religion that they adhere to (whatever that may be). They are actually a disgrace to their country and their co-religionists.

I hope you do not respond to their hatred with any hatred of your own. It is not the Pakistani way, nor is it the Muslim way. The best way to make trolls disappear is to ignore them completely. Pakistan Zindabad.

Salaam alaikum

PS – I am now waiting for one particular Islamophobe to come and announce that you, me, Shakir and some dude named Mirza are actually one individual. Come out, come out wherever you are ;)

Posted by Shuqaib.Bhutto | Report as abusive
 

The only that I noticed is the coincidence of Hillary’s visit and Kayani’s extension. I guess she had a major say in that decision. The US would like someone like Kayani in charge of Pak military as they are working on a face saving exit from the region. Imagine someone like Hamid Zaid in charge.

Pak military does report the civilian government and it is encouraging to see this. But this civilian government happens to be that of the US and not Pakistan. At least they are taking orders from somewhere. I prefer the American civilian government to the Saudi Sheikhs or Bin Laden as far as running the Pak military is concerned.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

If Pakistan’s civilian Govt is starting to make important decisions regarding the PA, it’s a good sign for that country & it’s democracy. If Pakistan has to successfully navigate out of the rough waters, it is currently in & transform itself into a moderate & progressive society, it’s people will need to be patient, have faith in democracy & stick with it, no matter how corrupt & untrustworthy, the elected officials might be.

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

I do not agree fully with you biohazard, we in India know & believe that if pakistan’s Jawan & India’s officer join they become one of the best army in the world. I know it as a beutifull country, powerfull but god fearing people. They are not all terrorists. pak is always “PAK”. Yes, I am a Indian a strong Hindu.

Posted by RameshSopan | Report as abusive
 

As for Kayani’s extension, I think there is more to it than meets the eye. Some understanding between PA and government, pressure from US, keeping competitors for the post away, plenty of money to be made in coming future for everybody, management of non-state actors in Af – many undercurrents at play here. But hopefully this will be the right decision for the stability in Pakistan and peace in the region.

@Biohazard (and fifty_cent?)
Never argue with an idiot! He’ll drag you down to his level and then beat you by experience.

Posted by Seth | Report as abusive
 

@ biohazard: So TRUE….the pakistani army is the root cause of all the problems in the region….a rogue & terrorist institution.

Posted by sweedishmeatbal | Report as abusive
 

@ Biohazard
Your your declarations about Pakistan Army are very truthful and spot on. Although, you have a boisterous/ humorous way of announcing them. Keep it up!!
 
 
Using terrorism as a negotiating tool has reached a dead end for pak. Options for retaliation are always there. We can do lot of things to protect ourselves and reduce damage such as through dramatic boosting of special forces, improving technological infrastructure and so on.

Posted by Seekeroftruth | Report as abusive
 

Extensions and prisons
By Kamran Shafi
Tuesday, 20 Jul, 2010

http://news.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/daw n-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/col umnists/kamran-shafi-extensions-and-pris ons-070

Quote “The Pakistan Army, we are told ad nauseam, is one of the best fighting forces in the world, commanded by some of the finest strategists in the universe. Is there no one who can replace Kayani then, when his tenure is over and he goes home like many generals before him, even some graceful Pakistani generals?”

“One might point out here that while Gen Abdul Waheed Kakar was a good man in many ways, the thing he stood out most for is the fact that he turned down an extension offered to him by none other than the late and much-lamented Benazir Bhutto (RIP, Bibi). It is great running into him now and again and to see the old soldier surrounded by people wanting to shake his hand and give him respect.

“Likewise Gen Jehangir Karamat who resigned gracefully when asked to by the government of the day. He too is a much sought-after gentleman.

“More importantly, our generals should see how Indian army chiefs quietly go home every three years, handing over command to their replacements. (Of course, without the unseemly and undignified tamasha that the Commando choreographed himself — the ridiculous handing over of the ‘command baton’ whatever in the world that was, for there is no such thing). We should remember too that if we have 100,000 men fighting the war on terror, India has nearly 500,000 men stationed in Indian-held Kashmir. Yet, if memory serves, no Indian army chief has either asked for, or was given, an extension.

“This proves the point that India has a reserve of capable generals to take over command whenever the need arises: retirement of the incumbent, or, God forbid, his departure from this world over which no human being has any control. Well, so do we. Take the most tragic; most untimely and shocking death of Gen Asif Nawaz Janjua (RIP). While his young death was traumatic in the extreme to his family and friends, the sky did not fall on the Pakistan Army, or on Pakistan.”

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive
 

Walikum Salam to Shuqaib Bhutto. Thanks brother.

Men at their best! Pakistan Army

Men at their best in signals!
Men at their best in Artrillery!
Men at their best in Medical corps!
Men at their best in Intelligence!
Men at their best in Armoured Corps!
Men at their best in Infantry!
Men at their best in Aviation!
Men at their best in Air Defense!
Men at their best in Engineers!
Men at their best in Ordnance!
Men at their best in Electrical & Mechanical Engineering!
Men at their best in Frontier Force Regiment (FF)!
Men at their best in Punjab Regiment !
Men at their best in Sindh Regiment!
Men at their best in Baloch Regiment!
Men at their best in Azad Kashmir Regiment (AK)!
Men at their best in Northern Light Infantry (NLI)!
Men at their best in Defense and strategic studies!
Men at their best in International Relations!
Men at their best in Diplomacy!
Men at their best in UN Peacekeeping operations!
Men at their best in nuclear command and control!
Men at their best in ballistic missile technology!
Men at their best in special operations!
Men at their best in nation building!
Men at their best in humanitarian relief operations!

Be a Man among Men! Pakistan Army.

Posted by Umairpk | Report as abusive
 

Surprised to see Kamran Shafi has toned down the usual lie of 700,000 Indian soldiers to 500,000 in Kashmir.

Posted by Seekeroftruth | Report as abusive
 

@”Men at their best in signals!
Men at their best in Artrillery!
Men at their best in Medical corps!”

Yes! After all, they have all the wars which they “won”, to show for it! :)

Posted by BlackSabbath6 | Report as abusive
 

BlackSabbath6 wrote:
“Yes! After all, they have all the wars which they “won”, to show for it!”

-The winning streak has just begun for Pakistan Army, its all happening, civil nuclear deals, military sales, strengthening economy, strategic parity with India, tilt in balance of power. etc Who do you think conducts all the strategy? Wars are not always fought through guns, sometimes they are won off the battlefield. Pakistan’s quest for influence in Afghanistan is succeeding, Pakistan Army’s strategic patience and persistence is paying off. It is one tough Army to face much less defeat.

Pakistan Army victories:
1979 covert war started in Af-Pak against USSR = VICTORY
1988/89 Zarb-e-Momin war games,Kashmir uprising= ASSERTIVE
1998 Nuclear tests, later command and control = ASSERTIVE
1999 Kargil war,infiltration military operation= BOLD MOVE
2001/02 standoff didnt,Indian Army didnt attack= VICTORY
2007/09 Counterinsurgency operation internally = VICTORY
2010 Post American Afghanistan transition = VICTORY

Posted by Umairpk | Report as abusive
 

Seekeroftruth:

@Surprised to see Kamran Shafi has toned down the usual lie of 700,000 Indian soldiers to 500,000 in Kashmir.
Posted by Seekeroftruth

Seekeroftruth: if you read archive of Mr Shafi;s articles you will find that he kicks PA’s ass more than Indians do and he does from Pakistan POV, importantly and brings in to compare with Pakistan’s enemy#1.

For this he has been threatened and physically attacked by someone from Pakistan’ establishment, as he suspects.

I like the way he writes….No BS.

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive
 

typo:

“and he does from Pakistan POV, importantly and brings in INDIA to compare with Pakistan’s enemy#1″

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive
 

Umair:

if PA is best and u got nukes, why India is an existential threat to you? With such doubts about PA, it does not remain the best. yeah i saw that list.

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive
 

Rajeev

The point to note is that Pakistan Army has termed India as an existential threat because of historical reasons. Though with Pakistan now a nuclear power, India is unable to pose an existential threat, but still Pakistan Army has no intentions to lower its guard given India’s devious nature. Though your intentions are not bad right now, but certainly nothing can be said about the future because the capability exists to pose a threat.
What you are unable to comprehend here is the concept of preparadeness, military planners hate the element of surprise and like to catch the enemy unaware.

Peace.

Posted by Umairpk | Report as abusive
 

99 Kargil war,infiltration military operation= BOLD MOVEPosted by Umairpk

==

Is this the official version of Pakistan Army now? Not the one floated in 1999 and which miserably failed?
GHQ moved Northern Light Infantry men to occupy mountains in Kargil? They were not “Kashmiri” “freedom fighters”?

If this is the official position, how is one supposed to interpret the current official positions of PA?

Posted by Seekeroftruth | Report as abusive
 

“its all happening, civil nuclear deals, military sales, strengthening economy, strategic parity with India, tilt in balance of power”

Facts: You signed the deal with China, as a last resort, after being rejected by the US, France, Canada & others, who all lined up to sign a deal with India though. Your economy is still in the doledrums while inflation & unemployment keep rising. Balance of power is more in India’s favor than it has ever been.

“Pakistan’s quest for influence in Afghanistan is succeeding, Pakistan Army’s strategic patience and persistence is paying off”

Not so fast, the game is not over yet. Maybe, you missed the news but your buddies & ‘startegic depth’, the Haqqanis, are about to be ofifcially named a terrorist group by the US & your army will be forced to take them on. Things will get a lot more interesting than you think, so don’t count your chickens before they hatch.

“Pakistan Army victories:
1979 covert war started in Af-Pak against USSR = VICTORY”

Facts: The Soviet-Afghan war was fought in Afghanistan by the Afghans with american money, weapons & explicit assistance. Pakistan had a very limited involvement, limited to training facilities, funneling of american resources & intelligence, for which it milked plenty of $$ from the US.
I know you guys are taught so in school but please STOP taking credit for the bravery of others & calling their victories as your’s.

“1988/89 Zarb-e-Momin war games,Kashmir uprising= ASSERTIVE”

And what did the PA gain out of that “Assertiveness”? 20 yrs of abolute failure. Gained NOTHING while bleeding itself to death.

“1998 Nuclear tests, later command and control = ASSERTIVE”

“Assertiveness” in making nukes from stolen blueprints & with a great deal of help from China. Later, proliferating nuke tech to rogue nations & proving to everyone, how untrustworthy & irresponsible you are.

“1999 Kargil war,infiltration military operation= BOLD MOVE”

More like a VERY VERY BAD MOVE. Any military or political startegist, including Pakistani, will tell you that Kargill was one of the biggest blunders & failures of an army in moders times. End result: The PA had more caualties, did not gain an inch of territory and made the world realize that it was indeed a terrorist organization. Overall, very very bad for Pakistan.

“2007/09 Counterinsurgency operation internally = VICTORY”

Not so soon. Last time I checked, TTP & others are still very much alive, kicking, regrouping and blowing up your cities. Declare “Victory” when you’ve elminated them all from your soil.

“2010 Post American Afghanistan transition = VICTORY”

Again, it’s quite immature to declare “Victory” when the game is still being played.

Posted by BlackSabbath8 | Report as abusive
 

Umair, you are such an ardent fanboy & zealot of the PA! how come, you never joined it?

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

Excerpt from a Dawn article regarding PA’s stance on India:

“Enter the fiendish complexity. When articulated it can come across as terribly naïve and simplistic: that the Pakistan Army is institutionally averse to peace with India because it would undermine its power inside Pakistan.

Yet, some of Pakistan’s most articulate, intelligent and informed members of its foreign policy elite with decades of experience under their belts often make precisely this argument, in private and with some grimness.

The army’s response is fierce and predictable. Nonsense, the generals say, India is Enemy No 1 for a reason. And then they go on to list those reasons, many of which are genuine. It has nothing to do with internal power dynamics, according to the army.

It is not about us dominating Pakistan, army officers swear, it’s about us defending Pakistan. To be fair, most of them are so focused on the latter, they don’t see its connection with the former. But what most in the army can’t see and what some choose not to see still has real effects.”

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

Umair:

@The point to note is that Pakistan Army has termed India as an existential threat because of historical reasons.”

—What you said does not explain the tag “existential threat”. May be PA can tell common Pakistanis that we can take care of India you worry about civil stuff.

Nukes have taken care of everything. Indians despite Pakistan’s history of aggression do not think it as a problem. Common Indian believes that Armed forced, as it has done in the past, will take care of Pakistan’s aggression—including conventional. Nukes are not talked about in India when we talk about Pakistan. we know crackers are there on either side of the border.

@t still Pakistan Army has no intentions to lower its guard given India’s devious nature.

– @India devious– History says otherwise.
In any case, the point again is a common man can lower the guard. Let Armed forces do what they are supposed to do.

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive
 

I believe true peace will take a few more years. Right now, the hawks in Pakistan believe that things are moving in their favour. The US is planning as graceful a withdrawal as possible from Afghanistan, and this is the big game-changer in the short term.

India has been operating in Afghanistan under cover of American protection, in a sense. When the Americans leave, the Indians will be driven out and Afghanistan will revert to coming under Pakistani influence. And I believe that will be the immediate effect.

Reality may begin to bite after that in two ways.

First, the Afghans are their own people and nobody’s stooges. When they’re rid of the Americans, there’s no reason why they should accommodate the Pakistanis, much less take orders from them. So while Pakistani hawks may do the equivalent of posing for joint photographs with the new Afghan leadership, they would in reality gain nothing substantial from them.

Second (and much more important), once the Americans disengage from the region, they would no longer feel obliged to pump vast amounts of money into Pakistan to prop up its economy. Right now, all the money is intended to encourage Pakistan to cooperate in the “war against terror”. Getting out of Afghanistan effectively admits defeat in that war. We won’t see Hillary Clinton in Islamabad anymore handing over cheques of $500 million or so.

That’s when reality may finally bite. The ultimate guarantee of Pakistan’s security is not the army or nuclear weapons, nor even “strategic depth” as it is variously defined. Even a strong economy (which Gen Kayani believes offers true strategic depth) is not the best guarantee. The best guarantee of Pakistani security is normalised relations with all neighbours. The “existential threat” is just a bogey. A few years of peace and normalised relations, and even the most hawkish may begin to see it.

Unfortunately, the path to true peace and normal inter-state relations has to run through a few years of belligerence and assumptions of victory in Afghanistan. We will just have to wait for sense to return.

Regards,
Ganesh Prasad

Posted by prasadgc | Report as abusive
 

“50 Cent”, “Bio-Hazard” :)

I love how these slumdogs have never fired a pistol, yet they act like AK-47 toting gangstas from the safe security of their call-center keyboards. 50-cent burray aye…

Pak from the left, kashmir & china from the top, SIMI from the south, naxals from the right… bharat mata in the middle.

— The legendary Mirza

Posted by usm_mrz | Report as abusive
 

I see that the jihadi maggot (shuquaib.bhutto) has transformed himself into the full-blown cockroach (mirza usman) that he is. Perhaps his search for ‘daddy’ is still on, between regular duties of blowing the mullahs in his madrasaa. In any event, the 72 fnocchios still seem to be eluding this pathetic excuse for a human :)

50% of napakistan, Bangladesh….liberated in 1971.

Pakhtunistan & Balochistan – full blown uprisings underway….will be liberated.

Sindh – internal strife & civil war like conditions created….will be liberated.

PoK – want independence from napakistan…will eventually beg India to take it back.

Bakistan – a filthy pathetic colony of maggots & cockroaches….will be used as a dumping ground of waste matter by India & other neighbors :)

In the meanwhile, napakistan trying to ‘liberate’ kashmir for 20 + yrs – Result: A stronger India & a failed bankrupt napakistan.

Posted by Bio_hazard | Report as abusive
 

shuqaib, whoever you are, aren’t you entertained by the paranoia of the australoids?

One little remark and it puts them in an uncontrollable downward pyshotic spiral.

once again, i have the same message. stop obsessing over pak.

Posted by usm_mrz | Report as abusive
 

The sad li’l degenerate is back to playing his charade & making a fool of himself again. He likes to f-art at others but when he gets a pile of c**rap dumped on his head, he squeals like a little pig. tsk tsk :)

Once again, I have the same message: Keep your jihadi terrorist maggots within the boundaries of your rogue failed nation & no one will want to even s**hit on your ugly piggy faces!

Posted by B_hazard | Report as abusive
 

Bio_hazard wrote:
“Bakistan – a filthy pathetic colony of maggots & cockroaches….will be used as a dumping ground of waste matter by India & other neighbors.”

-Pakistan, a country of 170 million Muslims and a nuclear power is fully capable to carbonize India in a matter of minutes. Your thoughts of Pakistan’s disintegration could take 5 minutes or more, Pakistan’s nuclear tipped long range ballistic missiles can destroy major Indian cities less in about 3 minutes. So Just shut the f*ck up, and think before you type. You think Baluchistan and Sindh can be seperated from Pakistan. Tell me how? through Indian support? Are you going to arm insurgents here? And if you will what if ISI does the same with Maoists in India. On top of that what if India is nuked?

F*CK YOU.
F*CK YOUR SH*T HOLE INDIA.

I Like freedom of expression.

Posted by Umairpk | Report as abusive
 

Usman

Let’s ignore this psychopath b*stard, son of a b*tch motherf*cker blacksabbath/bio_hazard who ever he is. If we stoop down to their level, there will be no difference between us and them. These are typical people who never accepted Pakistan’s existence since its inception.

Posted by Umairpk | Report as abusive
 

LMFAO…Another f-g-0t maggot from the g-ay jihadi paki brigade. Only this c*-hu-thiya likes to suck off mullahs as well as paki generals. Kayani probably gives this li’l tramp a mouthful everyday :)

Listen u c-u-nt, India is very close to getting a defense shield, which will detect movement of your chinese nukes (if they work). Worse case scenario, India loses a city or 2 & 100 mil people or so but your maggot & cockroach infested colony of 170 mill low life filthy worms will be reduced to ashes forever. So talk sense before u beat your breasts, u moron!

Posted by B_hazard | Report as abusive
 

Umair,

Don’t pay attention to the nonsense of trolls like bhazard or usmmrz & stoop to their levels. You’re better than that.

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

@Mortal1: I’m not a troll but if someone throws bricks my way, I won’t take it sitting down. You can scroll up & see who’s the real troll, who started this.

Posted by B_hazard | Report as abusive
 

It appears like Kayani gave extension to HIMSELF, otherwise why would Pak Prime minister had to come on TV and announce the extension at 2:00 AM in the Night, Gilani was so much in pressure he forgot his neck tie which he never does on any normal day.

Punjabiyaar

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive
 

Umairpk: “Be a Man among Men! Pakistan Army.”

Umair, you are ridiculing your own armed forces. Your statement above means every commander in PA is a man and the rest are “his women.” I understand, it must be pretty dry up there in Waziristan. And PA has to make do with what they have – use jawans when the commander feels hot. Between the Taliban and the PA commander, the latter must be a choice for your soldiers.

You forgot LeT, Afghan Taliban, Arabs, Chechens, HuJI, JuD, HuM, Al Qaeda, Uzbeks, Tajiks, Egyptians, Indonesians etc who form the extension of your military. There is no need to hide the facts.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

The following news must be sending shivers down the spines of the corrupt ISI commanders:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/26/world/ asia/26isi.html?_r=1&hp

Truth is being unveiled and it seems rather coincidental when Pakistan is trying to divert the Afghanistan peace initiatives.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

About the NY times article posted by KPSingh:

Does it have to take this long for Americans/NATO to figure it out? After wasting 100s of billions of dollars and thousands of lives?

Why is US still spending so much money on Pakistan? Giving money that doesn’t exist, by printing more and adding to deficit. Looks crazy. The only reason could be collapse of Pakistan would be worse. Still it seems waste of money for Americans.

Posted by Seekeroftruth | Report as abusive
 

With reference to the NY times article above, As I said before, regarding the PA:

Men at their best in creating & nurturing terrorism!

Men at their best in masking their own terrorists as ‘non-state actors’!

Men at their best in cheating, double-crossing & back-stabbing!

Men at their best in appearing to be your friend, while sleeping with your enemy!

Men at their best in blackmailing the world with terrorism!

It’s great that the world is finally being exposed to the true face of the rogue terrorist nation of napakistan.

Posted by B_hazard | Report as abusive
 

@”The following news must be sending shivers down the spines of the corrupt ISI commanders:”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/26/world/ asia/26isi.html?_r=1&hp

This thing is all over the main stream american media & the PA/ISI are being slammed hard. I believe, it will have some reppercussions for Pakistan.

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

@ RameshSopan

Salaam and thank you for your kind words about my country. I hope there are more people like you and Ganesh in India.

@ Umair, Mirza and other fellow Pakistanis

Salaam. I’m glad that you are proud of your religion and nationality and are therefore not hiding behind ‘western’ sounding names to make your comments.

Your emotions run high when defending Pakistan, as do mine. But just because someone resorts to ‘obsessively hateful’ behavior regarding our country does not mean that we should follow their example. There is only one person in history whose example you should be following. Now think about how he responded to hatred. I hope you understand my point.

There are quite a few reasonable and well mannered people from their side and I urge you to focus solely on those people. Try to counter their misunderstanding with facts and logic rather than emotions. I wish I had more time so I could participate more often.

Regarding the hateful trolls, they do not represent all the Indians. As a matter of fact these people are a downright disgrace to decent Indians everywhere. Please ignore these flamers completely because if you engage them they will take you down to their ‘paleet’ level.

Remember that we represent Pakistan every time we interact with others. Agar hum apnee tameez aur tahzeeb bhool jaa-en gay to nuksaan humaray mulk ka hoga.

I hope you will listen to me. Pakistan Zindabad.

Salaam alaikum.

Posted by Shuqaib.Bhutto | Report as abusive
 

@”The following news must be sending shivers down the spines of the corrupt ISI commanders:”
Posted by Mortal1
==

That looks very doubtful, unless you are saying PA/ISI are divided amongst themselves.

What is the idea behind donating enormous amount of money to prop up a population that hates your guts?

Posted by Seekeroftruth | Report as abusive
 

@ Ganesh. Salaam.

———-

You wrote: “First, the Afghans are their own people and nobody’s stooges. When they’re rid of the Americans, there’s no reason why they should accommodate the Pakistanis, much less take orders from them. So while Pakistani hawks may do the equivalent of posing for joint photographs with the new Afghan leadership, they would in reality gain nothing substantial from them.”

….

Thats very perceptive of you. So far, you are one of the few people who seem to have realized this little fact. Pakistanis are bonded by blood and culture with the Afghans, but that does not mean they are Pakistani slaves or stooges. It is true that they listen to us more than anybody else, but that’s because we understand their psyche and needs. Being their closest neighbors, we also have a convergence of interest with them in certain areas.

Secondly, Pakistan is as much Afghanistan’s backyard as they are ours. For example, starting from 1979, we have given them more ‘strategic depth’ for their national defense then they can possibly ever give us. Nobody has picked up on this important little detail as yet.

———-

You wrote: “Second (and much more important), once the Americans disengage from the region, they would no longer feel obliged to pump vast amounts of money into Pakistan to prop up its economy. Right now, all the money is intended to encourage Pakistan to cooperate in the “war against terror”. Getting out of Afghanistan effectively admits defeat in that war. We won’t see Hillary Clinton in Islamabad anymore handing over cheques of $500 million or so.”

….

So far, Pakistan’s economy has suffered somewhere between 34-40 billion dollars in losses due to the ‘War of terror’ starting in 2001 (flight of capital, economic disruption etc). These are conservative estimates I’ve read and heard from our economists. Compare that with the pittance America has given us to compensate for our economic losses. During the Bush administration, half this ‘aid’ money (5 billion dollars) was actually payment earned by Pakistan for rent on military bases, logistics support etc, so it cannot be counted as aid.

If we go back a little further we see Pakistan hosting approximately three to five million refugees from Afghanistan during the war against the Soviets (who are still present in Pakistan). The Americans suspended their aid and imposed harsh sanctions on Pakistan starting in the early 1990s leaving us to take care of the refugees which exacerbated our economic situation. If I use the benchmark of a dollar a day per person for refugee sustenance, it would come to well over a billion dollars per year (using the conservative figure of three million refugees). That’s approximately twenty billion dollars from the early nineties till the present and this figure is unadjusted for inflation and does not count the interest lost. Had it not been for the Saudis and the Chinese, Pakistan would have been economically wrecked during the 1990′s.

Taking an overall view of Pak-US relations, its pretty safe to say that America has been a source of economic and political instability in Pakistan. Once (and if) they leave Afghanistan, they may very well withdraw all aid and re-impose sanctions on Pakistan using one excuse or another. But that would be an unbelievably foolish thing to do in terms of ‘realpolitiks’. And here’s the reason why.

Right now, the strategic interests of two rival powers are colliding in my country. Whereas the American impact on Pakistan has been more or less destructive (economically and politically), the Chinese impact over the years has been the complete opposite. Our government likes to keep good relations with both the powers but it is undoubtedly the Chinese who are closest to us in terms of overall interests. Moreover, they have the unabated love of the people of Pakistan due to their sincerity towards us over the years. Go to any Pakistani forum and read the opinions regarding the Chinese, then compare that with the opinions regarding American policies.

We peacefully resolved our territorial dispute with them through bilateral talks and that one act of generosity on Pakistan’s part did more to cement our relationship with them then anything else. I see more and more Pakistani students who are going to China instead of the US or UK (some of my own friends have gone there recently for their grad studies). More importantly, I’m starting to notice an increasing number of married Sino-Pak couples which basically means that with the passage of time, China and Pakistan will bind each other with the same ties that bind Pakistan with the Afghans.

Therefore, whereas the Chinese influence in Pakistan has grown exponentially, the American influence is at its lowest today and they have no one to blame for that except their own ‘drunken sailor’ diplomacy. US-Pakistan relations have come to a point where ‘they need us’ more than ‘we need them’. The Americans have realized this a little belatedly and have recently tried to correct the imbalance with aid, scholarships etc. If they have any common sense (and I believe they do), then they will not take a hostile view of Pakistan after this little ‘drama’ in Af-Pak is over. If they do that, then they risk being permanently sidelined from Central Asia down to the Persian Gulf and possibly beyond.

One last point. Pakistan has secured most of its strategic interests in Afghanistan and therefore it really is irrelevant to us whether it is the West or the Talibs who come out on top. There is only one real victor in this war.

Salaam alaikum (Peace be with you)

Posted by Shuqaib.Bhutto | Report as abusive
 

Regarding the leaked report by US on Pakistan’s support of the Taliban, I have nothing much to say. CIA was the agency that worked very closely with ISI during Soviet-Afghan war. Americans can be proud of one thing, they never compromise on National interest. CIA will never hesitate to fund drugs, and use illicit money, overthrow foreign government, support corrupt military dictators etc.
Problem is some of those traits were picked up by ISI and Pakistani establishment. Defining the national interest in narrow terms and throwing everything to protect the national interest.
If CIA could fund nicaraguan insurgents, induldge in Iran contra affair and use drug money to fund Iranian opposition, overthrow unfriendly regimes in South America and elsewhere.
ISI has all the right to play dirty little games in its own neighbourhood.
America will now find itself between a rock and a hard place.

Posted by Umairpk | Report as abusive
 

This only tells me, ISI is a force to be reckoned with. Before when you entered Islamabad, you could drive through the main road right infront of the ISI headquarters. Today, it is the most guarded place, barricaded, locked down and simply out of reach. ISI HQ has more security than even the President House or PM secretariat. This agency is really upto something. I hope its Pakistan’s best national interest, otherwise we a screwed.

Posted by Umairpk | Report as abusive
 
 

No one is surprised anout the “leaks” certainly not the Afghans.

http://blogs.wsj.com/dispatch/2010/07/26  /afghans-react-to-leaks-with-jubilation  /

.Afghans React to Leaks With Jubilation

By Maria Abi-Habib

The mood among Afghans over leaked U.S. documents outlining Pakistan’s collaboration with the Taliban wasn’t one of surprise Monday but jubilation.

For many Afghans, it was an “I told you so” moment after lawmakers have to Pakistan for nearly a decade as a main source of support for the Taliban.

But the leaked documents, which show the U.S. is aware of Pakistan’s support to the Taliban, may see Mr. Karzai return to his hard-line approach by bolstering his past claims of Pakistani interference, lawmakers say.

The documents, lawmakers and cabinet ministers hope, will also publicly embarrass the U.S. and force them to take a tougher approach with Pakistan after donating billions of dollars in exchange for Pakistan’s help in the war on terror.

“Everyone here knows that a lot of U.S. aid money for Pakistan to build schools or hospitals never gets delivered, but goes to work against the U.S. in Afghanistan,” Mrs. Barakzai said.

Posted by Seekeroftruth | Report as abusive
 

@Umair, Paks, Bloggers,

With regards to these leaked documents, it makes all sides look really bad.

Umair keeps telling all of us how the ISI was trained by the CIA and how intelligence agencies do all sorts of things for the greater good.

But Umair, you fail to realize that whatever the case maybe, the CIA will not let the president and the United States Army get blamed or embarassed for anything.

The ISI and the Pak Army will be the fall guy here. Once things come out, it will be revealed, as I accurately predicted, American National interests or not, the CIA built the ISI and they can also take it apart.

Pakistan has been extorting 1Billion USD a year, while US taxpayers fund all this, their loved ones in uniforms are dying in Afghanistan because Pakistan is conducting assymetrical warfare against NATO.

The IMF gives Pakistan’s failed economy, another bailout for the second time in history and Pakistan continues to build nukes against India for “historical reasons”, while Pakistani’s are suffering, getting blown up and starving, with the exception of Umair, his family and direct friends.

As political fallout from these wiki documents increases, and why the U.S. has been so easy on Pakistan, full well knowing that the Afghan mission is being subverted by the ISI, it will not take much to intimidate and bend Mr. Kayani’s Arm to turn over so-called “rogue ISI” elements, because if it doesn’t Pakistan is on the verge of being called a rogue state.

Let that echo in every Pakistani’s head. These documents prove without a doubt, that Pakistan, a so-called ally has been lying all along and conducting clandestine asymmetrical war against the United States and its allies, at least, that is how the U.S. taxpayer will view it.

A thinking person would ask, why if the U.S has known of this for so long, has the U.S. continued giving Billions of USD to Pakistan and handling Pakistan with kid gloves, as American soldiers keep dying, for what?

Mr. Holbrooke has either been wasting his time, or he an his clique are also up to something and have been busy building empire.

Rogue states don’t fend very well against the might of the United States Military. You can bet, if this issue is acted on in the most judicious manner, it will be the start of the end of Pakistan as we know it, in its current form.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

@Biohazard,

Pakistan cannot exist without IMF and U.S. bailouts, it has no real source of income.

Once the money stops, if sense ever comes to foreign policy makers in Washington, the financial aid will stop to Pakistan. What little money is left for interest payments and food in Pakistan will quickly be burned up by the overbloated budgets of the Pak Army and ISI.

It will not be long before Pakistan starts to collapse into a Somalia and those nukes will not be forgotten, I am sure there is a plan to confiscate rogue nukes.

Pakistan’s ISI has been help the same Taliban that has been killing U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan. It is all over the world news now.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

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