Dreams from my father: South Asia’s political dynasties

August 4, 2010

bilawal“Whatever the result, this meeting will be a turning point in Pakistan’s history,” Pakistan President Zulfikar Ali Bhutto told his daughter Benazir as he prepared for a summit meeting with Prime Minister Indira Gandhi in 1972 in the Indian hill resort of Simla after his country’s defeat by India in the 1971 war. “I want you to witness it first hand.”

If there is a slightly surreal quality to President Asif Ali Zardari’s controversial state visit to Britain - where he is expected to launch the political career of Oxford graduate Bilawal Bhutto at a rally for British Pakistanis in Birmingham on Saturday - it is perhaps no more surreal than taking your daughter, herself then a student at Harvard, to witness negotiations with India after a crushing military defeat.

Family dynasties are a tradition in South Asia. Indira Gandhi, the victor of the 1971 war which led to the creation of Bangladesh, then East Pakistan, had learned about international relations from her father, India’s first prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru. Now her grandson, Rahul Gandhi, is being groomed as a future prime minister while his mother Sonia Gandhi keeps a tight grip from behind-the-scenes on the Congress Party government led by her appointed prime minister Manmohan Singh.

In both countries, the argument has been that the family name is strong enough to win votes, particularly among the millions of rural poor, strong enough to offer a promise of stability, and strong enough to be worth fighting to preserve across generations even in the face of domestic criticism.

Zardari has run into a great deal of criticism for pressing ahead with his visit to Britain while Pakistan struggled to cope with its worst floods in 80 years. He also faced calls to cancel the trip after British Prime Minister David Cameron said during a visit to India that “we cannot tolerate in any sense the idea that this country (Pakistan) is allowed to look both ways and is able in any way to promote the export of terror”. 

With a war going badly in neighbouring Afghanistan, a spate of allegations against the role played there by its Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) agency, and a wave of bombings at home which Islamabad/Rawalpindi see as blowback from the Afghan war, Pakistan is having to navigate through very choppy diplomatic waters.  On top of that, it has had the floods, a plane crash, and then riots in Karachi.

Assuming Zardari goes ahead with Saturday’s rally, he will be bringing the 21-year-old Bilawal – who is co-chairman of the Pakistan People’s Party (PPP) but has not yet taken an active part in politics – out into the political arena at a time when his country faces its biggest challenge since its defeat in 1971.  But then again, as Benazir’s own recollections of the Simla summit testify, there is a history to that.  And so far, in the decades since Pakistan and India won independence from Britain in 1947, it has been the family dynasties which have endured.

(File photo of Bilawal Bhutto)

Comments

Although not a fan of dynastic politics, I can see how and why they work in South Asia. But I wonder how much the Bhutto dynasty will really be able to pull off in Pakistan. For that matter, how much can any civilian politician accomplish over there? In India, the Gandhis that rise to power can actually make decisions, that have a real impact on the country, good or bad. Does any Pakistani have a freedom of action and authority that’s even close?

The real dynasty running Pakistan is the long succession of the Chiefs of Army Staff. Bilawal, like his mother and father are just public distractions meant to provide a democratic facade for the real power behind the throne. Shame. He seems like a decent lad.

Posted by kEiThZ | Report as abusive
 

@The real dynasty running Pakistan is the long succession of the Chiefs of Army Staff”
-Posted by kEiThZ

–So true.

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive
 

@Keithz,

You can never have proper governance in Pakistan, as long as the Punjabi Dynasty rules Pakistan.

The civilian governments of Sharif and all other others are just a go between jo-boy to handle public relations, ask for money and create the mere appearance of a functioning democracy.

Democracy will never come to Pakistan because most of the wealth is tied up in Islamabad, Karachi and a few other cities. Most of the rest of Pakistan greatly suffers from unequal representation, both financially and politically.

While the Punjabi raj there has done of great job of taking care of Punjabi’s, giving them the best jobs, the best prestige and access to all things that make life more liveable, the Punjabi’s are unwilling to clench their fist and share and in fact need to keep most of Pakistan illiterate, politically polarized against the west, all in a complicated dance and ballet to keep their niche business market of tricking the uniformed Paks that India wants to destroy them and tricking the west that more help is needed if the west wants to fight militantism.

The people are mostly powerless and the civilian government is impotent and the military will always seek its own business interests first.

Dynastic politics will continue and ineffective governance will continue in Pakistan.

The same history will keep playing out, the only changing factor in Pakistan has been that the militant frankenstein has been cancering up Pakistan and one day Frankenstein will face its master and tell its master that it has become obsolete.

At that time Frankenstein and Dr. Frankenstein will have to joust and both cannot be masters of the same house, one must go.

It is at that time that Punjabi rule will be challenged internally. I cannot give a timeline on that.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

In India, over time, coalition party governments have come into vogue since the late 1980s. It has become difficult for a single party to dominate the national elections like before until the mid 1970s. Regional parties have taken predominance and an alliance has to be set up after each election between parties with diametrically opposite ideologies. But they seem to be working together. India is slowly moving from central to regional dominance in national matters. Dynastic politics prevails not only at the national level, but also at the state level. Most political parties are run by families with no regards to any democratic methods to elect the party leaders. As soon as a dominant leader passes away, one can see party members jumping ship to more lucrative parties immediately. It is a part of the evolution in Indian democracy. Politics is treated as a dirty profession, much like the movie industry. Those who are in it already, continue to run it and dominate it, while others tend to keep out of it. Movie actresses are looked at as bimbos and their children end up taking to acting or movie related professions. The same with politics. In India, the propensity for caste formation is very high. Doctors’ children become mostly doctors. Government servants’ children become mostly government servants. Accountants’ children become accountants. Businessmen’s children become businessmen. Miltary servicemen’s children join military. Everywhere, families dominate and run everything. There is a known path and it has been tested and tried. There is enough guidance and trust available along that path. So progenies end up preferring the known paths. In addition, people also associate themselves with their professional groups. Those who run magazines know each other, marry into each others’ families and run journalistic business. The same with industrialists. Dynastic set up is not confined to politics alone. It is in all walks of life. That is one reason why backward people end up staying backward. There are not many avenues to come out of them and be accepted. But it is all changing slowly with more urbanization of the land.

If Pakistan had allowed its democracy to evolve, it would probably have followed a very similar line.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

Mrs Bhutto according to her son said that the best revenge is to have a democracy in Pakistan. Did Bilal misunderstood her7 Perhaps by appointing Mr Zardari as the caretaker chief of the party she was taking a revenge against his opponents including the military. How long the military is going to tolerate this impotent president who is doing more harm to the country than the entire Bhutto dynasty.
Rex Minor

Posted by pakistan | Report as abusive
 

@Rex Minor

I would rather have one Bhutto or Zardari as ruler over and over again for millenia than one military one.

Think that over. Punjabi Mafia need to start stepping aside and let all Pakistani’s have equal say.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

GW,

why is that you are more concerned about the ‘plight’ of non-punjabis in pakistan than non-punjabis such as myself?

Here is what my punjabi friend has to say about your posts:

“usmani, in chutiyoh sey baatey ker ker kay nah tu khudh be chutiyah bun jaye gah”

how true.

Posted by mirusmtupsha | Report as abusive
 

@mirusmtupsha

I don’t really understand your translation that well, forgive me on that.

I am not saying that punjabi’s are not also victims, all that I am saying is that the elites, just so happen to be the Punjabs, not that all Punjabs are elites.

I am saying that all minorities in Pakistan should start having more equal say in more balanced governance and the power should not anymore stay in the hands of the elite who happen to be one of the minorities in Punjab.

If the power is going to be in the hands of a minority, then that minority has a responsiblity to govern responsibly and give equal voice and share to those who are in smaller numbers and not make them irrelevant.

India is not perfect either in this respect, but India has far better governance and more equal power sharing despite the fact that it has more religions, languages and cultures. What I am saying basically is that when one minority, or the elite in the minority has power over all others, that creates inequity and unequal sharing of wealth and decreases opportunities for the unfortunate, so much to the extent that in Pakistan, poverty and disadvantaged peoples are the ones that become fodder for the militants.

Similarily, historically Brahmins have had prestige and power in India and it today’s world, that along with caste is unacceptable and wrong. Regardless of one’s ethnicity, race, class, color, gender, etc. there should be greater philosophical shift to equalize the rights and the voices of all peoples.

Muslims, hindus, christians, jews, buddhists, siksh, all peoples are equal before God, and deserve equal opportunity to live, thrive, express their opinions, run for office and therefore at the same time have the concurrant responsibility to recognize each others’s sovereignty as equals. That is lacking in Pakistan and yes in India too, but to a far less extent.

I hope that clarifies things.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

@mirusmtupsha,

Furthermore, I do believe Kashmiri’s should be free of India AND Pakistan to be their own entity, if that is what they choose. But for Kashmiri’s to be able to properly choose their fate and destiny, undo influence must be removed from both Pakistan AND India.

I can guarantee that India would reciprocate, if Pakistan complies with UN 1948 resolutions. But India cannot do so first because Pakistan will occupy and swallow up Kashmiri Indian territory and make a land grab.

Pakistan must not be albe to allowed to make any more land grabs and that is exactly why India will not abandon the Indian Kashmiris to allow them to be phased out by Pakistan. India and Pakistan must autonomize Kashmir the right way, that being remove all Pathan and Punjabi settlers, remove both armies and Pakistan must remove all proxy jihadi terrorist camps and leave Kashmiri’s on their own for at least a decade or two and let them determine what they want to do.

That is the right thing to do. Religion should have nothing to do with anything.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

I am saying that all minorities in Pakistan should start having more equal say in more balanced governance and the power should not anymore stay in the hands of the elite who happen to be one of the minorities in Punjab.

— See this is what i JUST DONT UNDERSTAND about you Indians, you don’t know anything about Pakistan and assume the worst by reflex.

most of our presidents and prime ministers have been non-punjabi minorities. Many pushtun, several Shias (bhuttos) and these are not just some marketing ploy like your presidency (a powerless entity with a revolving door for dalits, muslims etc.) These are minorities with real power. we also have hindus in parliament with REAL power. There is another reason why punjabis are in positions of influence — because they are the most educated and most developed province… god willing, the rest of us will catch up soon.

Posted by mirusmtupsha | Report as abusive
 

@ Usman. Salaam.

” usmani, in c******h sey baatey ker ker kay nah tu khudh be c******h bun jaye gah ”

Sound advice. Now you know why I stopped posting here ;)

Whats the situation in your city (flood wise)? Are you safe?

Posted by Shuqaib.Bhutto | Report as abusive
 

Shuqaib,

VS. Alhumdualla, karachi is fine bro. We are collecting funds from family, friends and relatives abroad. My older cousin donated 4 lakh rupees mashallah. we don’t trust (perhaps unjustly) the relief agencies so we are taking this money directly where it is needed.

my friend is simply hilarious but sometimes if you block out the expletives, there are some real gems to be found. lol.

we have been thru hell before and we will get thru this inshallah.

Posted by mirusmtupsha | Report as abusive
 

@ Usman

May God bless your cousin. Keep up the good work.

Posted by Shuqaib.Bhutto | Report as abusive
 

@newface,
“woh chu*ya hi paida hua thaa”! He prooved it the day he posted ordinary house photos on his site to claim some kind of architectural advancement of pakistan!

Posted by Seth09 | Report as abusive
 

Beware of the freaky fraudster! the ret-arded degenerate is talking to himspelf again as 2 persons (mirusmtupsha & shuquaib bhutto). the ch**tiya still thinks that nobody knows.

Mr. Ch**u*tiya from Ch*ut*iyastan (formerly pakistan) haha!

Posted by Black_Sabbath3 | Report as abusive
 

@Black_Sabbath3

“Beware of the freaky fraudster! the ret-arded degenerate is talking to himspelf again as 2 persons (mirusmtupsha & shuquaib bhutto). the ch**tiya still thinks that nobody knows.”

Absolutely correct! His very first entry as Shuqaib few weeks back was about whining how IDs get blocked and blog has been hijacked. In one post he talked to himself (shakir) about Abdul Sattar Edhi and of course there was an article about Edhi in Chusman’s blog that day. Go figure. His hatred should be dealt by an iron fist and w/o feeling anything (bruce lee or Neo from matrix kind), not even hate as he presumes in his delusion.

I don’t think all Pakistanis are ret_ard like this fellow. His stu_pid self-obsession and chu*tiyam-sulphate remarks make those magic786 and mohd. anjums look like decent fellows. Do you agree?

Posted by Seth09 | Report as abusive
 

@Seth

This ch*u*tiya thinks that nobody knows about the multi-faced joker that he’s been playing here (good face: shuquaib, bad face: mirza/tupak) but his charade has been called a long time ago. I actually have some respect for pakis like umair & others, many of whose comments although stupid & misinformed, are at least original. This ch*ut*iya photo chor copy/paste spam artist doesn’t even read most of the lies, he posts. He’s a compulsive liar & a hater & nothing he says can be taken for face value. With umair & others, one can see that they are misled and that there’s some hope but for this hate-mongering nut-job, there is absolutely no hope. He will die writhing in pain of his own hate-cancer, as he sees the rise of India & failure of his own country & that will be the ultimate retribution for a pathological hater like him. People like him, are the #1 reason why pakistan is a failed state today & will continue going down the gutter. Despite his self-adulation, he’s nothing more than a co*c*k*r*oach, who needs to be squashed & flushed down the toilet.

Posted by Black_Sabbath3 | Report as abusive
 

The Pakistani cricket team, a microcosm of the failed nation they represent. A hilarious must read article in the Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/aug  /03/the-spin-pakistan-cricket

Posted by Black_Sabbath3 | Report as abusive
 

The dynasties have some unexplained curse in our times. I would encourage Bilal to keep out of politics for a change, but I guess one cannot influence the fate of people. Teddy Kennedy did take the signal and did not stand for the President. From India to the USA dynasties end up in cruel deaths.
Rex Minor

Posted by pakistan | Report as abusive
 

@Rex Minor
There you are!

Your pious talib students have executed another preg_nant woman on charges of adult_ery. Time to light another incense stick in front of the pictures of brave pashtoons.

Posted by Seth | Report as abusive
 

@Rex Minor
There you are!

Your pious talib students have executed another preg_nant woman on charges of adult_ery. Time to light another incense stick in front of the pictures of brave pashtoons.

Posted by Seth | Report as abusive
 

@Rex Minor
There you are!

Time to light another incense stick in front of the pictures of brave pashtoons.

Your pious talib students have executed another pregnant woman on charges of adult_ery.

Posted by Seth09 | Report as abusive
 

@Seth09
You are a unique itellectual I have come acroos, you read lots of headlines, then beleve in them and then has the audacit to circulate it further, if the info serves your thoughts. What a strange habbit, and then some one said do not generalise. There are people I know who cannot believe that the Americans have a son of a kenyan father as their president. This is another exreme. Tell me do you genuinely nelieve that the Taliban Pashtoons are that cruel, more crual than the americans who got hold of a 15 years canadian in Afghanistan, torturedhimfor six long years in Guianimo cells, and are nowconfronting him with the military tribunal under the new management. Let us not talk about the cruelty of Talibans. You are most probably not abeliever, otherwise you would know the story of he one throws the first stone.
Rex Minor

Posted by pakistan | Report as abusive
 

@GW
You would do a great favour to Pakistan if you could convince the Indian leaders to take the whole lot to India. And perhaps India could also allow the former delhi born Musharaf also into custody.
Rex Minor

Posted by pakistan | Report as abusive
 

@RexMinor

How are you so sure of Taliban’s innocence? How are you so sure that Taliban cannot be so cruel? Are you a ordinary non-Taliban resident of Afghanistan or a professor on Taliban culture or you have an insider in Taliban? Or is it just your SPECULATION/ESTIMATION/INTUITION that Taliban cannot be more cruel than America? Islamic extremist mullahs in India/Pakistan/Afghanistan often say that if a woman is raped then its fault of woman and she should be punished in most extreme ways. Now tell me who is cruel?????
I believe it is your speculation only. You are sure of only what probably you have experienced. But believe me we in India are taught in schools about two famous pashtoon invaders of India and how cruel they were. And we in India, Pakistan and Afghanistan know far better than anyone else of how much cruel Taliban can be. If standing at north pole of earth you cannot see the south pole then it does not mean that south pole does not exist. Same way if you do not agree with something then merely your disagreement does not make that thing incorrect.
And I have been noticing in various blogs that you defend pakistan and taliban with utmost ferocity and often cite examples highlighting bad America….typical of a pakistani and then you say that you are not from pakistan and its just the blog that calls you as pakistan. I doubt your words and intentions as well.

Posted by 777xxx777 | Report as abusive
 

Mr Minor,

The problem is systematic acceptance and exercise of those “inhuman” practices. Some grand delirium you exhibit when you try to equate public whipping & murder of a pregnant woman with the Omar Khadr who was captured during battle for allegedly throwing grenade at NATO soldiers. That “ugly” “evil” American could have killed the boy there and then but instead he was captured and handed over to authorities.

Even publicly available Abu Ghariab prison cell torture images cannot be compared to killing of a pregnant woman. If she was to be shot then why 200 whiplashes before? If only you would remove your tinted glasses.. :(

Posted by Seth | Report as abusive
 

Islamic extremist mullahs in India/Pakistan/Afghanistan often say that if a woman is raped then its fault of woman and she should be punished in most extreme ways. Now tell me who is cruel?????

— Islam is that brutal religion that was the first to outlaw the noble practice of sati in India.

Posted by mirusmtupsha | Report as abusive
 

“— Islam is that brutal religion that was the first to outlaw the noble practice of sati in India.”
Posted by mirusmtupsha

It wasn’t Islam which outlawed the practice of Sati, it was the Mughal ruler Akbar, who did it. Islam is a religion which allows a man to have 4 wives & generally treat women as objects without rights & baby making machines.

Posted by Black_Sabbath3 | Report as abusive
 

@It wasn’t Islam which outlawed the practice of Sati, it was the Mughal ruler Akbar, who did it. Islam is a religion which allows a man to have 4 wives & generally treat women as objects without rights & baby making machines.”
—–Black_Sabbath3

–Usman will just focus selectively on Mughals. Sati has been addressed by Guru Nanak Dev much earlier, who branched out to trash these customs and started Sikhism. Along the history, many have RIGHTLY criticized this custom–Mughals being one of them. technically Akbar did not exculsively ban but asked that his permission must be sought before acrrying out Sati—which led to delay not ban. Even that cruel basta$d Aurangzeb did ban it. But then this is not limited to Mughals as I said. Brits banned it strictly. Hindu reformers asked for this such customs not to be followed.

The POINT is all this does does not explain why Muslims til today (varies pace to place)kill women in th name of honorary kiling (karo-kari). how many women are sitting in Pakistani jails just because hey did not bring up 4males as witnesses of the rape, so they were charged and thrown in jails.

Indian constitution bans these age old customs but not Pakistan’s. If Mughals were so noble is pakistan worse than those old rulers. I have no idea why Usman will not SHUT UP on these social customs.

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive
 

@mirusmtupsha

i think you did not read correctly….I never said it was Islam that recommends brutal punishment but it is the followers of Islam that do such heinous crimes against women and bring bad name to religion. Put on your spectacles and read every word of what i said before posting rubbish here. It only shows what a big fool you are.

Posted by 007XXX | Report as abusive
 

Note: I am the same guy: 007XXX and 777xxx777…some trouble with reuters website forced me to open new account with new name. I clarify this as i do not want to play a multi faced joker here.

Posted by 007XXX | Report as abusive
 

Wrong. Much earlier than Akbar. And no it was not just delays!

As Islam established itself in the subcontinent, opinions about sati changed and it was increasingly regarded as a barbaric practice. The earliest known governmental efforts to halt the practice were undertaken by Muslim rulers, including Muhammad Tughlaq. [52]

Posted by mirusmtupsha | Report as abusive
 

The POINT is all this does does not explain why Muslims til today (varies pace to place)kill women in th name of honorary kiling (karo-kari). how many women are sitting in Pakistani jails just because hey did not bring up 4males as witnesses of the rape, so they were charged and thrown in jails.

—- Indians criticizing others on brutality and feminism is always fascinating.

1. 10 million female feticide and infanticide since 1976. (source – Canadian Broadcasting Company)

2. Religion sanctioned discrimination/brutality based on caste widely in practice to this very day.

Posted by mirusmtupsha | Report as abusive
 

“—- Indians criticizing others on brutality and feminism is always fascinating.” Posted by mirusmtupsha

Not nearly as fascinating as a muslim & a pakistani pointing a finger at others over women rights when it’s hardly a secret that the countries with the poorest track record of women’s rights in the world, all happen to be Islamic nations.

Posted by Black_Sabbath3 | Report as abusive
 

mirusmtupsha
@1. 10 million female feticide and infanticide since 1976. (source – Canadian Broadcasting Company)
—-we know the problem and I also know which states in India it happens. I do not know the #. But did you check the status in Pakistanis? Ah, I see that number is zero!!!

2. Religion sanctioned discrimination/brutality based on caste widely in practice to this very day.
– Cannot u put it together what you want to say—religion/caste/brutality…huh? wtf are you talking about. Incidents happened which can be counted on fingers. I am just laughing who is saying this. In your country, 24/7 the minorities suffer. It is the daily brutality—infidel Hindus/Sikhs/Christians, others non-Muslims like Ahmediya (and u want Gurdapsur?;lol the area with the largest Ahmediya population) and then brutality against Shias, the then the welcome pakistan gave to Muhajirs. But I agree Islam does not have castes. Thanks for small mercies.
Then once again, point #1 and #2 is like throwing another layer of stats from India to cover up what Pakistan’s deficiencies, which you think are negligible. This just tells that you approve of those customs. That is your general practice, in the same vein as you use Kashmiri blood to wash your sins in Azad kashmir and G&B but will never talk about it.

Also, it will be interesting to see if you could provide stats for Pakistan for your point #1 and point #2. May be that will stop you from typing all that.

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive
 

but we did not point any finger. some chimpanzee made a comment about islam’s brutality. nobody said anything about hinduism before that. get out of your hinduvta wet dreams and pay attention.

Posted by mirusmtupsha | Report as abusive
 

@some chimpanzee made a comment about islam’s brutality.”
===pullout that comment and show me.

“nobody said anything about hinduism before that. get out of your hinduvta wet dreams and pay”
==you have a history of puling out list af old Mughal dynasties as a case for Pakistan;s victory over India. Else, why would you do that. you are such a dumb fuc$ who will get worse. that is the most polite I can be with you.

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive
 

Hinduism has flaws—ACCEPTED and it has been accepted since many centuries and THEREFORE it(along with and on lines of Christianity) has been continuously refined as well. But what about Muslim world?? That’s the trouble, only those people can improve who accept and acknowledge their weakness and then work hard to improve. But those who do not accept the problems inside them can NEVER improve. And this difference in attitude is clearly reflected in condition of people living in two countries. As the Shakespeare said,”What’s is a name”..so if anyone calls us by any name, but still truth is that human conditions in India are far better than that in Pakistan, and America is better than both of course. That’s the truth–Deal with it–use all ur bloody nukes, mullas, jihadists, chinese made stupid guns, isi, or army—YOU CANNOT STOP INDIA. A country eating its daily bread on alms cannot stop a country that EARNS its daily bread.
I wonder y doesnt pakistan sell its nukes to every X Y Z on this planet in name of building funds for flood relief..or may be their “great and holy” army is already doing so and the galloping all the collected funds themselves while making the world a more dangerous place and showing their middle finger to average pakistani..

Posted by 777xxx777 | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan’s abortion rate is about 90,000 per year. Counting from 1976 this means 3 millions in all those years. Multiply it by 7 as Pakistan’s populace is 1/7th of India, this becomes 21 million. Now compare this to 10 million in India since 1976.

Posted by Seth09 | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan’s abortion rate is about 90,000 per year. Counting from 1976 this means 3 millions in all those years. Multiply it by 7 as Pakistan’s populace is 1/7th of India, this becomes 21 million. Now compare this to 10 million in India since 1976.

Posted by Seth | Report as abusive
 

“Pakistan’s abortion rate is about 90,000 per year. Counting from 1976 this means 3 millions in all those years. Multiply it by 7 as Pakistan’s populace is 1/7th of India, this becomes 21 million. Now compare this to 10 million in India since 1976.” Posted by Seth

the j*erk-off you’re trying to reason with, isn’t smart enough to understand the concept of percentages being used as a relative measure while comparing nations. he only understands absolute numbers because it suits his argument that whatever negative attributes Pakistan has i.e poverty, infant mortality etc., India has more in numbers.

Posted by BlackerSabbath | Report as abusive
 

“Pakistan’s abortion rate is about 90,000 per year. Counting from 1976 this means 3 millions in all those years. Multiply it by 7 as Pakistan’s populace is 1/7th of India, this becomes 21 million. Now compare this to 10 million in India since 1976.” Posted by Seth

the d*i*c*k-weed you’re trying to reason with, isn’t smart enough to understand the concept of percentages being used as a relative measure while comparing nations. he only understands absolute numbers because it suits his argument that whatever negative attributes Pakistan has i.e poverty, infant mortality etc., India has more in numbers.

Formerly, Black Sabbath

Posted by KORNY | Report as abusive
 

Infanticide is not abortion you dumb a$$e$. Infanticide is the grisly practice of killing the girl after birth in world’s best country of India.

Islam thankfully forbids such heinous behavior.

don’t like absolutes? what do you think of the female:male ratio in india? definitely explains the frustration i am sensing from you loners.

Posted by mirusmtupsha | Report as abusive
 

“Islam thankfully forbids such heinous behavior.”

yes, islam forbids such behavior but it fully encourages the kind of behavior which makes their lives a living hell & makes them rue the day they were born.

“don’t like absolutes? what do you think of the female:male ratio in india?”

here dill-hole, another slap across your face:
Male:Female ratio – India (ages 15-64): 1.06:1, Pakistan (ages 15-64): 1.05:1 (Source: CIA fact book)

Posted by BlackerSabbath | Report as abusive
 

“Islam thankfully forbids such heinous behavior.”

As if Hinduism or any other religion allows that? Again you foolishly bring religion to compare a social ill. Now eat this!

>>Yeah, Islam surely prohibits female infanticides. How else your prophets would get 6-yr olds to do some “experiments” and preach that men and women are equal, irrespective of their age.

Posted by Seth | Report as abusive
 

@Gentlemen,I have never claimed that the so called talibans are either innocent or not cruel. I would not like to be their opponent fighting them in their land. They do not muck about larifari, they do not negotiate and have straight forward requirement, and that is to leave their land. Is it too much to ask and is it too difficult to understand?
Rex Moinor
PS The word foreign is too foreign for them and they are allergic unless they have them as guests or people seekong refuge from greart powers.
Rex Minpr

Posted by pakistan | Report as abusive
 

@RexMinor
“that is to leave their land. Is it too much to ask and is it too difficult to understand”

Your sentence is incomplete, let me put it in correct perspective: “that is to leave their holy land and let them make everyone else’s life hell on this planet with full freedom and liberty to do so; all in name of seeking heavens for themselves”

The day a bomb falls in your country/city/county/village/home and then someone living under refuge of taliban claims responsibility of the bombing on al-jazeera; that day you will understand. When a plane of your country is hijacked and your gov. is forced to let free some terrorists all in your holy land of taliban then you will understand the difficulty.

Freedom is fine but a freedom to make other people’s lives hell is not freedom but terrorism. and because narrow minded people like you exist therefore exists Kashmir, Lebnon, Tibet, Palestine, etc etc etc…

Posted by 007XXX | Report as abusive
 

@007
I guess I have said it before, you guys use the English language which is suitable to express maths and logic, there are other languages to express emotions. Have you ever heard of a collateral damage, its was first used by the USA secretary of state. I even meet some peopl who ask me how could God almighty allow the sufferings of old and children in Pakistan or Haiti?
I do not have the knowledge to your hypothesis, but one thing I am sure of and that is that you guys do not have the faintest idea of the Pashtoon language and their culture. You are completely indoctrinated without your consent by the massive propaganda machinery and calling Talibans, the students, as the total Pashtoon folks.
The one thing common among the hot spots you mentioned is that their respective Govts. are responsible for their plight.
Rex Minor

Posted by pakistan | Report as abusive
 

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