Comments on: Pakistan-India; a $5 million downpayment on a peace initiative http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/08/23/pakistan-india-a-5-million-downpayment-on-a-peace-initiative/ Perspectives on Pakistan Thu, 01 Oct 2015 19:31:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: KINGFISHER http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/08/23/pakistan-india-a-5-million-downpayment-on-a-peace-initiative/comment-page-7/#comment-33771 Sun, 14 Nov 2010 19:05:47 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=5983#comment-33771 I have seen many Head of States and Government but have never seen any that gives financial aid to a neighboring country because of neighbor’s difficult days and makes a condition on it that it is given as a price for peace so that the neighbor on question of prestige do not touch the money.

I do not think any sane person would appreciate such demeaning attitude and gesture from a big or a small neighboring country. It amply proves beyond any shadow of doubt that the nation with such demeaning cultural heritage has yet not been able to raise itself up from the dust it used to sleep during the colonial days.

Recently a foreigner who visited India told a story that a friend invited him to his house and offered him half-sweet meat (Rasgula) and said you must eat the full Rasgula.

The foreigner said that how can a person offer a half-sweet meat and ask to eat full we all laughed. So the case of the 5 million is also one of the meanest thing have heard given as an aid asking it as a payment for peace.

I suppose the emerging economical animal (give any name) forgets that peace is not a commodity to be sold and purchased in the market.

Being cautious of the Indian emerging animal that made the greatest mistake in its offer 5 million with condition on which the world community has taken a very deem view of the Indian nation’s cultural meanness..

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By: pakistan http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/08/23/pakistan-india-a-5-million-downpayment-on-a-peace-initiative/comment-page-7/#comment-32510 Sun, 19 Sep 2010 13:59:39 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=5983#comment-32510 sorry, i was away from town during my free time. I guess I have mentioned it before, please make use of common sense, logic maths ang phisophy if you will to express your views, and for heaven’s sake not emotions and outburss. Both India and Pakistan are developing nations, in their own leaders views and therefore they are not as yet NATIONS. Indian and Pakistan leaders do not and have never fully represented their peoples views. India has the greater potential to become a great Nation, but they are not prepared to change their machiavi…. and tight lipped diplomatic teachings deeply culturted in their mentality. Pakistan is in a worst situation and have done no more than what they have been capable of, pride above all, suppressing their own citizens well anchored in establessed provinces with unique culture and embraced with a single religion of Islam, i.e PEACE, not war biggotry and phobia. They were disappointed unsettled, unnerved not because a german journalist mentions the historical fact, but because of the reaction of the hindu population in India, immediately after the creation of two countries from historically many and under the colonialism, one country. The new Pakistani leaders did not know how to tackle the onslaught of Hindus, I deliberately say HINDUS and not Sikhs, who lost a lot in now Pakistan and eventually in India, against the muslims living in the new Indian part of the land, forcing millions of muslims to flee towards Pakistan and reluctantly the departure of many Hindus and sikhs living previously in Pakistan provinces. Are you guys not aware of the fact that most of the muslim migrants so called muhajirs had to sleep on major city street footpaths at night for several years after the partition and despite occupying higher positions are still not fully integrated in the country, simply because of the number, the language ang and the culture. Not every one was jinnah or liaqat to take over the helms of the newly formed country, simply because it was their noble idea to find a separate homeland for the muslims. Suddenly over night the muslims of India became jews looking for a promised land of Pakistan. If you guys do not accept these facts then you are deliberately making doubtful proposals for reconciliation.
The so called democratically elected leaders have tried all acts in accordance with their talents- what they have not done is to start a deconisation process in their land, nationalising their armies and civilian institutions. For manmohan singh and Gillanis of of today is much more difficult than the the jinah and Nahrus of yesterday. There were never any blue prints available for such a plan, the idea was a some kind of a joke just to take over the administration from the Brirs and every thing was to carry on as previously. The facts are also that ever since the leaders have been trying to suppress the very people on whose behalf they took over the administration. I say simply that both Pakistani and Indian people have undergone a great suffering and more is to follow. Hanging on to Kashmiriris is unlikely to provide stability in the rest of India, sooner or later India is likely to break apart in States without any viable central Govt., unless the central Govt. takes certain steps for decolonisation. For Pakistan, I said they should not accept any elms from India simply because of at least keeping their pride, for this is the only thing they have got left. It is impossible to develop a Nation without a PRIDE.
I must admit that by nature I am a pessimist and seldom forsee a miracle from idiosities, but this time I hope that I am proven wrong.
Rex Mior

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By: 007XXX http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/08/23/pakistan-india-a-5-million-downpayment-on-a-peace-initiative/comment-page-7/#comment-32440 Wed, 15 Sep 2010 14:20:02 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=5983#comment-32440 “I hope an wish that it gets back to celebrating Eid during the day and Diwali in the night”

Thank You very much and Id Mubarak (ofcourse a bit late).

Meanwhile I have asked you a question in one of the other articles. Could you please respond in that article. Its about relevance of democracy in India and Pakistan.

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By: rehmat http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/08/23/pakistan-india-a-5-million-downpayment-on-a-peace-initiative/comment-page-7/#comment-32436 Wed, 15 Sep 2010 07:31:56 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=5983#comment-32436 777xxx777,

I was aware that you did not say that Islam is in way of birth control.

Overall, I see that we are on the same page on most issues. It boils down to common sense. We should remember that moderates may be large in #s but their voice is always low and remains unnoticed.

I hope you grab the first opportunity to participate in the festivities like you did before. Hindu friends of mine celebrate Eid with me and I still have lingering taste of Modak from Ganesh Chaturthi few days ago at my Hindu friend’s place.

I hope an wish that it gets back to celebrating Eid during the day and Diwali in the night.

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By: 777xxx777 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/08/23/pakistan-india-a-5-million-downpayment-on-a-peace-initiative/comment-page-7/#comment-32414 Tue, 14 Sep 2010 05:40:33 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=5983#comment-32414 @rehmat
“Islam is not in way of birth control”

Please read again. I never said Islam is in way of birth control. I said Muslim leaders are in the way and believe that in all good sense of world the Muslim leaders do not represent whole of Islam and certainly do not own Islam.

“the possibility that Muslim community will get another Gujarat type treatment, which is a shameful historical fact in post-partition India”

It is the ‘majority’ that has been getting the Gujrat type treatment frequently in state of UP all in name of ‘caring for minority’. Why the hell ‘minority’ feels cared by killing? Can the stains of blood be washed with more blood? So come to UP and live for 25 years and then u will know that it is the ‘majority’ that is given a second class treatment for getting votes of ‘minority’. And what really troubles me is that WHY ‘minority’ votes for someone who treats a non-muslim as a second class citizen, there-to-be-slaughtered type. So the fears both in UP and Gujrat are very real. And only Gujrat is not shameful, list is long:- Amritsar, Meerut, Varanasi, Aligarh, Orrisa, Mumbai, and so on. And this shame can be washed only by tolerance and contribution to national growth and not letting religion come in way of it.

“Babri Masjid incident is poking with the history and sowing seeds of trouble ”

That was a political stunt and what is troublesome is that BJP got to power because of it. Because i have always maintained that it is not the politics but it is the votes that count. And only silver lining in that was Mr Vajpayee. But babri masjid incident was played to exploit fear of hindus in UP where they were always treated as second class citizens living under constant fear of being slaughtered by muslims all in name of as i said ‘caring for minority’ by the favourite party of ‘minority’–Congress and as soon as BJP came to power in UP they sensed this fear and exploited it to maximum for their personal power games.

“There is a need to stop playing with the sentiments (right or wrong) of both communities”

I am glad you said BOTH.

“participate in each other’s festivities (or at least mourn the death)”

I used to participate in Mithi Id with my muslim friends (I am a pure veggie so not the second Id for me) but after seeing those universities guys distributing sweets among themselves on day of Mumbai attacks I am just so sad that I didn’t even felt like wishing Id to my friends this year. But i do hope that by diwali i get out of this mindset and invite them to my house for goodies and also hope that they forgive me for not wishing them Id.

As you said Tolerance and Education can and will change things.

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By: rehmat http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/08/23/pakistan-india-a-5-million-downpayment-on-a-peace-initiative/comment-page-7/#comment-32412 Mon, 13 Sep 2010 22:56:53 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=5983#comment-32412 777xxx777: “Now this is what is worrying all hindus in India right now is rigid non-participation by muslim community in controlling population menace. Muslim leaders continue to deny the child birth control measures as Un-Islamic and, I am sorry to say, but they are being real pig headed fools.”
***Unlike Catholics, Islam does not prohibit birth control. Those leaders are worse than you mentioned. Birth control is a success in Bangladesh. Islam is not in way of birth control.

“And this is the fear hindus have in long run that this 80 will become 8 one day and tables will be turned and combined with radical intolerance of muslim community, u can imagine the fear urself.”
***your fear is based on what may happen. We should not visit pre-partition history too much. Let us see which is more likely: the possibility that Muslim community will get another Gujarat type treatment, which is a shameful historical fact in post-partition India OR your fear of Muslim overpopulation one day overtaking the non-Muslim population and run away with the country. The answer to me is clear. The rise of radical Hinduism as a reaction does not cut ice with me since Babri Masjid incident is poking with the history and sowing seeds of trouble and nothing to do with the current day Indian Muslims. There is a need to stop playing with the sentiments (right or wrong) of both communities.

There is a need to NOT label the whole community responsible for any misdeed of some.

“On the day of Mumbai attacks those students even distributed sweets among themselves. Tell me how am I supposed to feel????”
***I am sorry to hear that. This troubles me as much as it does you. I won’t even laugh it off. But do notice there were Muslims who protested against 26/11 and did not bury the killed terrorist. Again, let us not make the whole community responsible. Indiscriminate bombing will not know religion. I hope those young guys know that.

there is a need to be tolerant, educate and be more aware of right and wrong, get out of physical and mental ghettos, merge with each other, participate in each other’s festivities (or at least mourn the death). Suspicion will not solve anything but will increase the problems.

Peace!

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By: 777xxx777 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/08/23/pakistan-india-a-5-million-downpayment-on-a-peace-initiative/comment-page-7/#comment-32388 Mon, 13 Sep 2010 09:11:36 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=5983#comment-32388 @rehmat
“At 80% Hindus should drop this paranoia”
“I agree with you that we need to be receptive and tolerant to each other.”

Now this is what is worrying all hindus in India right now is rigid non-participation by muslim community in controlling population menace. Muslim leaders continue to deny the child birth control measures as Un-Islamic and, I am sorry to say, but they are being real pig headed fools. On the other hand as more and more hindus get modern education (combined with economics of nation) they realise the importance of population control and willingly contribute to the solution as well. Then why not muslims. And this is the fear hindus have in long run that this 80 will become 8 one day and tables will be turned and combined with radical intolerance of muslim community, u can imagine the fear urself.

“one of my cousin who cheers pak team against India, supports Indian Team against all other teams, is a huge fan of Sehwag”

Thats the trouble that most people in muslim community are BLINDED by religion.

“Do not label the Indian Muslims as a community ready with bag pack to take the next bus to Islamabad.”

Come to West UP and c for urself and then tell me. In the city that I live in (I wont tell the name out of sheer fear of muslim radicalism level here) we have a university where in the hostels every night mulim guys raise Pakistan flag and shout “Pakistan Zindabad” slogans. On the day of Mumbai attacks those students even distributed sweets among themselves. Tell me how am I supposed to feel????

It was not that Hindus were radical always. Hindus are far more cooler and receptive than may be Jews or Christians are towards Muslims. But this hard core intolerance and Ghettoisation of muslim community in India even after 60 years of partition is what is radicalising hidus now and it is very very ALARMING to me personally that so and so hindu organisation planted a blast somewhere. And to add fuel to fire Muslim leaders keep on denying population control measures as un-islamic. This drives every hindu nuts. I am not sure u realise it or not but this is truth what hindus today fear.

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By: rehmat http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/08/23/pakistan-india-a-5-million-downpayment-on-a-peace-initiative/comment-page-7/#comment-32380 Mon, 13 Sep 2010 05:39:46 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=5983#comment-32380 Ganesh and 777xxx777, Thanks

777xxx777 said

“Ghettoisation” and thats what make hindus feel more and more insecure that muslims do not mix well and want to run away with the nation one day.”
****Are you kidding? I think we need to find the real enemy than this unnecessary one. At 80% Hindus should drop this paranoia.

As i said “Ghettoisation” is complex and part of the blame goes to Muslim community and the rest to others who live in mental ghettos. One example is even Muslim bollywood stars like Shabana Azmi and Aamir Khan have been prevented to buy property in certain areas just because of their religion. there are several examples out there. Rest is survival instincts and comfort zone in localized communities. Educational reforms will peel away youth who have no other way than merge. WE need receptive communities for that. The poison of religious radicalism is spreading fast and deep.

“When hindus c muslims in India cheer pakistan team tell me how would hindus feel?”
***THis is worry not JUST OF HINDUS but of Indians and that includes me too. It is not as if all of them do this. Let me tell you one small example. one of my cousin who cheers pak team against India, supports Indian Team against all other teams, is a huge fan of Sehwag.
I half jokingly asked him to marry a Pakistani girl I know of since he is such a supporter of Pak Team. His reaction was “no way”. Not that I judge it one way or the other, but it tells that he is not blind in his support. I cannot speak for the community here. Bad apples exist in every community. Labeling a community miniPakistan in Gujarat is ignorance and stupidity.

“. Even to this date hindus curse the days of muslim invasions that destroyed hindu societies to core and made it so much rigid.”
***History cannot be reversed. Inavsions and occupatoions happened and I will not take credit or discredit for that and not should anyone alive today. Read it as history, get over and do something today to improve future. We in this region are fond of history!

” And partition of the nation in 1947 left so many scars on both communities that the insecurities run very very deep.”
*** I appreciate you said BOTH communities. Let me add that there was a third community involved and was affected: Sikhs.

“I firmly believe had it been a seperate country for anyone other than muslims India would have had a much better relationship with it than it has with Pakistan today.”
***Perhaps you are right. If chinese were part of India, I can tell you for sure they would bite much harder with a UN-recognized boundary dispute.

“Creation of Pakistan was itself a big factor to drive hindus nuts and make that insecurity go deeper into their hearts that they have been witnessing through hundreds of years of muslim invasions”
*** My understanding is that Hindus are relieved to get rid of a significant chunk of Muslims.
I would like to make a point here that talking about Indian Muslims and Pakistan in the same breath is derailing yourself from the main issue. Do not label the Indian Muslims as a community ready with bag pack to take the next bus to Islamabad.

I agree with you that we need to be receptive and tolerant to each other.

More later,
peace

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By: 777xxx777 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/08/23/pakistan-india-a-5-million-downpayment-on-a-peace-initiative/comment-page-7/#comment-32359 Sun, 12 Sep 2010 09:10:07 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=5983#comment-32359 **TYPO
“I feel taking away the homeland of Hindus is was right”
SHOULD READ AS
“I feel taking away the homeland of Hindus was NOT right”

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By: 777xxx777 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/08/23/pakistan-india-a-5-million-downpayment-on-a-peace-initiative/comment-page-7/#comment-32358 Sun, 12 Sep 2010 09:08:22 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=5983#comment-32358 @Ganesh
“I’m not so sure that the current generation of Hindus has any insecurities about the creation of Pakistan.”

Certainly not. you r right about that. I never said about political unification or any stupid thing like that. All I meant was let us have free trade and visa free travel so that borders are irrelevant.

But I was talking in historical perspectives. It is a open truth that muslims took away a piece of land and resources in name of Islam, Political parties in India have frequently been trying to portray themselves as “Pro-Muslim”, combined all this with all the historical facts and enmity with a muslim neighbour and you will understand the agony of a very large section of hindus. I m myself a minority guy (not a muslim though, there are minority communities other than muslims as well in India) but I feel taking away the homeland of Hindus is was right and infringing their human rights just to make minorities comfortable is not correct. Hindus are one the most flexible people u can find on earth and expect muslims to be flexible as well. Tell me why muslims keep calling all non-muslims as ‘Kaafirs’. Hindus never say so to non-hindus. Idea is to mix and live harmoniously with each other. Muslims fail to do that and then blame everything on hindus for suppressing them and political parties make them their PAWNS in chess of power. How can Hindus support financially for Muslim education when they call fellow hindus as Kaafirs and pakistanis their brothers even in face of events like Mumbai attacks??? How do muslims expect that they can be accepted the most superior race and others are treated like ‘Kaafirs’? Respect is always give and take and never one way. Shahenshah Akbar realised this, but dont know why muslims this day fail to realise this?

Everything can be made right if only we have only and only one goal in mind and heart that we need progress and development of human race within the larger frameworks of the mother nature. And for that religion should not come in the way. Historically the societies that are based too much on religion remain troubled, engaged in wars and hence backward. Time to move on.

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