Comments on: Does that U.S. “retribution plan” for Pakistan still stand? http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/09/27/does-that-u-s-retribution-plan-for-pakistan-still-stand/ Perspectives on Pakistan Thu, 01 Oct 2015 19:31:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: donna cerca uomo Roma http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/09/27/does-that-u-s-retribution-plan-for-pakistan-still-stand/comment-page-5/#comment-54076 Sun, 12 Oct 2014 21:17:31 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=6150#comment-54076 Thanks for the sensible critique. Me and my neighbor were just preparing to do a little research about this. We got a grab a book from our local library but I think I learned more from this post. I am very glad to see such wonderful information being shared freely out there.

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By: rehmat http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/09/27/does-that-u-s-retribution-plan-for-pakistan-still-stand/comment-page-5/#comment-33517 Fri, 05 Nov 2010 20:30:21 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=6150#comment-33517 @777

I agree!

Rehmat

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By: 777xxx777 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/09/27/does-that-u-s-retribution-plan-for-pakistan-still-stand/comment-page-5/#comment-33506 Fri, 05 Nov 2010 02:36:23 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=6150#comment-33506 @rehmat
“But you can see religion in politics is being influenced by them. we are not talking about religion per se here, it is UCC and the Hindu Law. So it is not about religion. It is about pure politics.”
Yes I agree and that’s why I called them ‘hired’ goons, hired by political parties to meet their political ends. As I have stated above that religion is the greatest tool to divide and rule. To change this people have to change and stop blindly believing in religion and so called religious leaders. Until then people like VHP and SIMI will live and create troubles. Change has to come from rock bottom, from people like me and you.

I think by and large both of us are on same page regarding UCC. So lets just try our best to spread awareness among our fellow countrymen regarding UCC.

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By: rehmat http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/09/27/does-that-u-s-retribution-plan-for-pakistan-still-stand/comment-page-5/#comment-33491 Thu, 04 Nov 2010 05:57:53 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=6150#comment-33491 @777

“BUT given the current scenario, of late my personal opinion has been that niether a masjid gives a muslim good life and nor a mandir gives a hindu a good life. When we have land then why not a hospital, school or may be even a electricity generation plant? What say?”
***For me it really does not matter, anything useful is fine. The question is justice and fall outs of the decision. Justice is hard to do given the nature of evidence. Main factor taken into view was fallout of the verdict. Current verdict seems like more of making both communities happy. Giving in favor of either one of them would have unleashed riots.–guaranteed. Hospital is nice but that would have been very revolutionary for court to do so. But i do get your point.

“Narender Modi — Yes. He will be ready to drop name Hindu willingly. No doubt in it. I can understand the image of Modi in eyes of muslims for being unpunished after doing henious crimes against muslims but he is not a fool and a very strategic politician.”
***Knowing Modi, it is quite possible. you are right about Modi’s reputation among Muslims, and in fact among non-Muslims too. Past is past. My problem with this man is that he will repeat Gujarat riots again. There is nothing he has said that I should think otherwise.

“VHP — Hired GOONS. GOONS, GOONS, GOONS. I hope you do not discuss these fools again. Lets be sensible. BTW I am amazed to see even such a mature guy like you believing that VHP represents hindus when even Hindus themselves condemn VHP claims of representing Hindus.”
***Yes they are goons without an iota of doubt. I am not stupid to think that they represent Hinduism. LeT does not represent Islam so does not A-Q. But you can see religion in politics is being influenced by them. we are not talking about religion per se here, it is UCC and the Hindu Law. So it is not about religion. It is about pure politics.

“I agree Hindu name should be dropped from UCC. Lord Krishna tells Arjun (and mankind) that greatest religion is to serve nation and motherland. So if changing name of a good law is what makes India a better country then I support dropping the name happily. What in a name?:-)”
*** Agreed! What in a name.

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By: 777xxx777 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/09/27/does-that-u-s-retribution-plan-for-pakistan-still-stand/comment-page-5/#comment-33437 Tue, 02 Nov 2010 16:18:17 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=6150#comment-33437 @rehmat
“I am talking about the one 1000Yrs ago. Was it Adi Shankracharya?”

Largest reason was fall of Guptas which created a power vaccum. Because of this vaccum there were a large number of small kingdoms that USED religion with help from brahmins (because budhhists at that time stayed away from politics) to FOOL their ordinary JANTTA. Sounds familiar…even today JANTTA is a fool who blindly follows religion and is so easy to fool in name of religion. Adi or no Adi but all these so called religious leaders (from all religions including mullahs and paadris as well) were/are/will always be hired goons at best for gaining political ends. History teaches us that religion is the greatest tool to divide and rule.

“You know that monasteries were demolished and Hindu temples built during all this time of Buddhism downfall. This is a case of Ayodhya except that the Buddhists are not going demolish a temple, where there was originally a monastery.”

All I care for is law of land. What was there before 1947 is not and should not be a concern. After 1947 it was a mosque and was illegally demolished and so the criminals be brought to justice and land be given to muslims. BUT given the current scenario, of late my personal opinion has been that niether a masjid gives a muslim good life and nor a mandir gives a hindu a good life. When we have land then why not a hospital, school or may be even a electricity generation plant? What say?

“This will still benefit several kinds of minorities including the ones who are already benefitting”

But how the hell will it benefit our politicians???

“This reservation system is making the beneficiaries educated and richer but lazier not any smarter”

Who want to be smarter when one can be rich and lazy both at same time??? Your idea is excellent but as you said no one will bell the cat.

“Again, can you see the protectors of Hinduism such as Narender Modi or VHP etc will see the word Hindu dropped from Hindu Law before we have UCC”

Narender Modi — Yes. He will be ready to drop name Hindu willingly. No doubt in it. I can understand the image of Modi in eyes of muslims for being unpunished after doing henious crimes against muslims but he is not a fool and a very strategic politician.
VHP — Hired GOONS. GOONS, GOONS, GOONS. I hope you do not discuss these fools again. Lets be sensible. BTW I am amazed to see even such a mature guy like you believing that VHP represents hindus when even Hindus themselves condemn VHP claims of representing Hindus.

I agree Hindu name should be dropped from UCC. Lord Krishna tells Arjun (and mankind) that greatest religion is to serve nation and motherland. So if changing name of a good law is what makes India a better country then I support dropping the name happily. What in a name? :)

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By: buntyj http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/09/27/does-that-u-s-retribution-plan-for-pakistan-still-stand/comment-page-5/#comment-33388 Sun, 31 Oct 2010 12:09:08 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=6150#comment-33388 shortly the retribution plan will be history
once there is such an attack on the usa china will intervene to say it wont tolerate any us retribution attack on pakistan
despite appeasement of pakistan such attacks will occur periodically starting sooner rather than later
why? any successful extortionist protection racket over time requires that there are periodic reminders of the consequences of any possible defaults and mental intimidation of those who pay protection- or it will fail
the isi is well aware of this

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By: rehmat http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/09/27/does-that-u-s-retribution-plan-for-pakistan-still-stand/comment-page-5/#comment-33385 Sun, 31 Oct 2010 08:14:17 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=6150#comment-33385 @777

“Yes and that’s the problem. We can have good government only when people are aware, people will be aware when people are educated and people will get mass scale education only when there is good government. In computer science we call it inter-process/thread deadlock. Nothing moving on because everything is waiting on something else to move.”
***Except for some revolution, changes happen slow. One thing that I have seen is that people do not sink back into illiteracy/poverty once they are out of it. This happens for several positive changes but they are isolated. That is a good word you used to describe the situation.

@Buddhism
“Shankracharya and other fools like him are at best hired goons for gaining political ends.”
***I am talking about the one 1000Yrs ago. Was it Adi Shankracharya?

“When you pour water from one glass to another the first one will become empty. So if there are conversions then this will happen with any set of two religions then why say “at the cost of”.
*** Revival can be without conversions.

That brings me to an interesting scenario while we are discussing it. You know that monasteries were demolished and Hindu temples built during all this time of Buddhism downfall. This is a case of Ayodhya except that the Buddhists are not going demolish a temple, where there was originally a monastery.

“All we can hope is that we could eliminate this plague of caste in next 50 years or so with help from all Indians including help from muslims like you as well who could tell their hindu friends to come out of this bullshit caste system.”
***This happens, not always though, when people get out of their traditional l habitats. Caste system may be more visible in a remote village of Bihar than in Mumbai or Delhi.

Reservation system will not let casteism go forever. Why not totally scrap the reservations and promote free education for the poor and let all compete at the same level. This will still benefit several kinds of minorities including the ones who are already benefitting, and Muslims who are poor and would take away benefit from those who are good enough to be on their own. There are many layers to it if the idea is to be pursued. This reservation system is making the beneficiaries educated and richer but lazier not any smarter. As long as reservations stay caste system will stay. No one is going to bell this cat.

@population
“Population is one such problem that cannot be left to individual’s pace. Can you think of some more like this?”
***I have not seen exactly like the one example I gave you earlier but I have seen several in my profession in terms of the thought process. But this still remains the isolated cases overall. UCC is not going to control population as you noted that UCC is not the ultimate answer.

For UCC to happen, the name Hindu needs to be dropped from Hindu Law to satisfy the Muslim minority, which is reasonable. Again, can you see the protectors of Hinduism such as Narender Modi or VHP etc will see the word Hindu dropped from Hindu Law before we have UCC?

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By: 777xxx777 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/09/27/does-that-u-s-retribution-plan-for-pakistan-still-stand/comment-page-5/#comment-33378 Sat, 30 Oct 2010 17:40:18 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=6150#comment-33378 Rex,
I agree with you that people are asset but 1 billion people in such a small land space are a menace. It is easy for outsiders to make intelligent comments as 1 billion people country has great potential and so on but those who really know ground realities are the ones facing the music. I would agree with Rehmat that Population explosion in India is the HUGE problem (read as bold and in font size 40). But at least a law has been passed by parliament that is known as RTE (Right to Education) under which every child is entitled to at least primary education. So things are being tried and changes will come but 60 years is not enough to judge a country. So please be fair in your assessment.

Rehmat,
It is normal for Rex to run away from tough questions raised about his beloved holy lands of believers. I am sure you are not surprised with him showing back to your questions. By the way me and you were discussing UCC above, so any thoughts to what I said on 28-Oct-2010.

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By: rehmat http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/09/27/does-that-u-s-retribution-plan-for-pakistan-still-stand/comment-page-4/#comment-33361 Sat, 30 Oct 2010 00:15:27 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=6150#comment-33361 @Rex

“Sorry, I have not been able to express my question in a proper way. let us leave it at that. Thanks anyway”
***If you say so.
I won’t say the same that I did not ask a question in proper way in my last para. My first question about lack of focus on education in Muslim majority countries, such as Petro rich Saudi Arabia (example), is very relevant.

I am fine with us moving on.

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