Al Qaeda, its branches and Afghanistan

November 22, 2010

osamaSo little is known about al Qaeda that it is can be tempting to see patterns when none exist, or conversely to see only madness when there is method at work.

But with that health warning, it’s interesting to see Afghanistan cropping up in recent comments from both al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula (AQAP) and al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM).

By way of background, do first read Leah Farrall at All Things Counter Terrorism arguing that that AQAP, which is threatening to launch more low-cost  attacks on the west after last month’s intercepted parcel bombs, should not be seen as either a new threat, or distinct from al Qaeda’s core on the Afghanistan/Pakistan border.  “AQAP is a branch of AQ,”  she writes in this post.

“It is not an affiliate, not a franchise, and not a network. Rather it is  an operating branch of AQ, which means that while it may have authority  for attacks in its area of operations (the Arabian Peninsula), it comes under AQ’s strategic command and control for external attacks outside of this area of operation.  And it has always done so, right back to 02.”  (See also an earlier post here, and subsequent one here.)

In a commentary this month on an AQAP statement, Gregory Johnsen at the blog Waq al-Waq notes a reference to General David Petraeus , the U.S. commander in Afghanistan:

“Now, General Petraeus used to be head of CentCom and as such responsible for Yemen, but that hasn’t been the case since General McChrystal self-destructed in a Rolling Stones profile. So why mention Petraeus? Well, by itself I would be willing to overlook this as the overwrought hyperbole of a jihadi calling out a famous US General, but I don’t think that is the case. This is the latest in a series of suggestions that I have seen lately that lead me to believe that there is some new talent in the organization. And I am of the early impression that it is coming from Pakistan/Afghanistan.”

Then just last week al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM) demanded the withdrawal of French forces in Afghanistan in return for the safety of French nationals kidnapped in Niger.

It will be interesting to see if there are more comments like that from different branches of al Qaeda focusing specifically on Afghanistan. If nothing else it would suggest that al Qaeda’s leadership, in its embattled drone-bombed hideouts on the Afghanistan-Pakistan border, still has the ability to get the different parts of the organisation, from Yemen to North Africa,  to sing to the same tune.  And in turn — though at this stage this may be a leap too far — it would indicate how far it can use them in a coordinated manner either to stage attacks on the west or to prepare new safe havens if it feels its survival on the Afghanistan-Pakistan border is compromised.

As a post-script,  or rather an antidote to pattern-seeking, do read this piece by academic Mark Stout on jihadi strategy to get a flavour of the complexity of the environment in which al Qaeda operates as it steers a course between its own aspirations to global jihad and those, like the Afghan Taliban, more focused on national causes.

(Reuters file photo of Osama bin Laden)

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King Faisal in Saudi Arabia was a staunch supporter of Islamic unity, back in 70s very important watershed moments in history shaped the events of the future. The 1973 Arab-Israeli war, the assassination of King Faisal, the overthrow of Shah of Iran and Shia takeover by Khomeini, Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. The religious influence of conservatives in Saudi Arabia, the funding campaign by them both inside and overseas. The 1982 Iran Iraq war, and finally operation ‘Desert Shield’ Iraq invasaion of Kuwait in 1990. The US forces stationed in the Gulf, by that time thousands of fighters of Arab origin based in Afghanistan, fresh from victory against Soviet Union, with plenty of cash and well equipped with weapons saw the US presence in Saudi Holy land very bad.

The birth of Al-Qaida, the Gulf war before that and Al-Qaida activities inside Saudi Arabia and targeting of american military personell there. The presence of Al Qaida in Afghanistan Pakistan border region.

We see two extreme pattrens here, at one side is Al Qaida and its extremist ideology to wage a war on the west primalrily directed against the US. On the other hand is the US conservatives, People like Bush, Cheney, Kissinger, Rumsfield etc. oil companies, military industrial complex. The one’s who create conflict, as a result produce debt and control the resources. This is their way to profit.

What we in the Muslim world need to do is to put out of business the extremists such as Al Qaida as well as Taliban. What an average western citizen need to do is to put out of business the neo-cons whose only purpose is to spread fear, fuel conflict, produce debt and control the resources. Only people should prevail, hold the gopvernments accountable and prevent conflict. Today an average citizen taxpayer in west or simple citizen elsewhere in Afghanistan or Pakistan is powerless. Whatever lies our politicians sell to us we buy it. This is to stop and we must start thinking now.

Eliminating one group (Al- Qaida) or another just does not solve the problem. Uprooting the causes of the problem will help everyone. Eventually there are a bunch of very few people who are behind this game and who benefit and try to shape the events in their favor and benefit themselves. Finish Al Qaida but if the problems persist another group will emerge.

Posted by Umairpk | Report as abusive

Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/ timestopics/organizations/a/al_qaeda_in_ mesopotamia/index.html?inline=nyt-org

“Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia (or Al Qaeda in Iraq) is a decentralized collection of semi-autonomous terrorist groups that has claimed responsibility for scores of suicide attacks and car bombings across Iraq since its formation.”

Posted by Umairpk | Report as abusive

@Umair
“What we in the Muslim world need to do is to put out of business the extremists such as Al Qaida as well as Taliban. What an average western citizen need to do is to put out of business the neo-cons whose only purpose is to spread fear, fuel conflict, produce debt and control the resources. Only people should prevail, hold the gopvernments accountable and prevent conflict. Today an average citizen taxpayer in west or simple citizen elsewhere in Afghanistan or Pakistan is powerless. Whatever lies our politicians sell to us we buy it. This is to stop and we must start thinking now”

Well said!! Al-Qaida tera kya fayeda?? Yes oppression must stop but protest has to be peaceful and effective. And those who wonder how peaceful and yet effective protests are conducted should read the history of the India specifically the non-cooperation movements. So Al-Qaida method is not good for getting rights. It all makes them wrong and one cannot get rights with wrong methods.

Posted by 777xxx777 | Report as abusive

Islamic fundamentalism and the rise of Al Qaeda, Taliban etc have their root in the proxy war against the Soviets. No one at that time expected things to turn out this way. Americans are full of ignorance and they never looked at the long term effects of their actions in Afghanistan. By doing what they did, they have simply replaced one monster with a bigger one. Religious fundamentalism is worse than an ideology like Communism. The average man does not like to be in a communist nation. Only those holding on to power kept Communism as a means to sustain it. Most of those regimes became autocracies. Religious fundamentalism is very different in nature and it goes down to the individual level. If religious feelings are hurt, bloody wars result. After defeating the Soviets, the Americans simply ignored everything in South Asia and were busy setting up the new world order. Little did they realize that religious fundamentalism had warped the minds of many individuals who have no agenda now other than to take on the world.

Now with North Korea rattling South Korea, the US will have to shift its attention there. I wonder if there is any nexus involving China, the Arab militant groups, Pakistan’s rogue military system and North Korea to stretch the Americans more. If the situation escalates in the Korean peninsula, an already thin American economic system might face a collapse, forcing it to cut back on its military operations and leaving its opponents to rise further. The US is in a bind right now with its feet stuck in different places. Lifting the foot in one place will cause imbalance and fall.

I think Al Qaeda has figured out how to fight a slow war. It comes in the form of making life miserable for the common man. In American airports I am reading about TSA and pats that are frustrating travelers. Frustrating the public always leads to the legal governments taking a beating. By choking the international air line system with periodic terrorist attempts, Al Qaeda has managed to push the system to the brink. If people cut back on travel, the airline industry will be hurt badly. And it will hurt the economy even more.

Al Qaeda has figured out that time is on its hand. It is the Americans who need to run things according to a budget and time frame. They have to answer to their people. Al Qaeda has no such responsibilities. All it has to do is hide as much as it can and radicalize more youth who will continue to irritate the Western nations. It will be a slow fall, but Al Qaeda has figured out how to bring down its enemy. The problem is that if the enemy falls, it is not going to stop with that.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive

I’ve read thousands of news articles since 9/11 2001 on this ‘Al Qaeda’… and all the groups ‘linked’ to them. But never once have I read a single shred of evidence to suggest that Al Qaeda even really exists, or exactly how any one of the hundreds of other groups ‘linked’ to them are actually linked to them in any way.

It’s quite extraordinary that it seems so incredibly easy to be ‘linked’ to Al Qaeda, yet so difficult for US forces to find this group themselves when everyone else seems able to do so..

This suggests that either the whole thing is some sort of self perpetuating lie, or ‘Al Qaeda’ are indeed everywhere, and extremely easy to track…

Either way nothing can explain the ridiculous lack of factual information on this group, in the media spotlight now for 10 years.

Australian Guantanamo detainee David Hicks just released a book exonerating himself from all association of guilt, and explaining the systematic torture and stripping of all human rights suffered at the detention camp.
In this book he explains that the group Al Qaeda was never spoken of in the region and most of the 800 or so detainees including himself had never even heard of it..
Of the few who seemed to know something about it, who apparently numbered around 30 people, they said that it had an extremely small presence in Afghanistan compared to the vast number of military training camps run by the Taliban offering conventional warfare courses designed for fighting in conflicts such as Kashmir.
Apparently any kind of bomb making or terrorism related training in Afghanistan was almost unheard of as most recruits were training for the front lines in Kashmir where they would be protecting civilians..

Posted by brian-decree | Report as abusive

It’s worth reminding people that every conflict the US has had in the last 50 years has created a monster..

- Support for terrorism in Afghanistan in the 80s created a monstrous rogue global terrorist network (apparently) and a fanatical religious regime, from what was Afghanistan’s first democratic socialist popular government.

- Support for the horrendous dictator the Shah of Iran created an abhorrent Islamic revolution and the Iran we see today.

- Support for the invasion of Palestine and creation of a Jewish state has created the biggest monster of all, a horrendously oppressive, racist, religious state with illegal nuclear weapons who repeatedly attack their neighbors and flout international law.

- Support for the dictator Saddam Hussein led to incredible suffering of the Iraqi people, the use of chemical weapons and the destabilizing of the entire region.

- Their campaign against any form of socialism has created an abomination on the Korean peninsula, Kim Jong Il… who is now nuclear armed. And a massively corrupt and oppressive regime in Russia..

- It’s involvement in Haiti has created one of the most unstable and poverty stricken countries in the world.

- It’s unwavering support of Saudi Arabia has led to possibly the most unbelievably staunch and corrupt royal family of dictators in the world. Another religious state with an appalling human rights record..

Yet heroin now flows freely out of Afghanistan to supply 90% of the world, cocaine flows freely out of Columbia and Mexico, where a drug war has now killed 30 000 people in a few years, terrorism is the fastest growing sport in the world, poverty and disease are at an all time high and the environment is almost ruined..

We have not achieved a single goal in 60 years.. Socialism is now everywhere, terrorism is unstoppable, nuclear disarmament is non-existent, Israeli and Palestinians have resolved nothing, and middle eastern governments are no more legitimate..

Does anyone else think it’s time for a new world police??
Maybe we should sack the UN security council and empower the general assembly for a change?

Posted by brian-decree | Report as abusive

Here is an article in the Outlook magazine that seems to coincide with my view that Al Qaeda has taken up the “Slow war” option. This will cause tremendous frustration to the Americans.

http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx  ?268115

It is going to be difficult to counter this monster.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive

@brian-decree

Very well said. Excellent write, Sir.

We are experiencing the dynamics in learning from one another and collectively, relying more on innovations and productivities, experiencing new discoveries and challenges in sciences. And yet several world govts. are deliberately involved in a vicious circle, regularly misusing the world media and citizens confidence as well as spreading across the world a propaganda in support of their foreign policies. Many millions are now affected by the paranoid and are struggling with the monsters which have been created from nothing or a few bunch of ordinary criminals, which should have been ignored anyway or left alone to be tackled by the local people.
Here is a joke, in a country like Afghanistan, if one would give a thousand or less bucks, one could hire a gun who would commit even a murder. And then someone comes along and offers millions of dollars to have some one knocked off. Would any one with a sopund mind believe in this offer? No sir, they wo’nt and this is what good old George W offered!!

Paranoid has brought fear to many millions of normal citizens in the world and surprisingly even the USA Govt is now fully infected with the Fear virus. They reckon that there are people sitting there in the caves, deserts, bushes and even in big cities in the west, just plotting some sort of hineous crime.

The USA Govt is now showing more fear than the target nations of iran and korea. Believing in their own lies. They fear their own competence, their own intelligence net work, which they now believe is unrelible.
The poor David Hicks, how got himself involved the read of his book should tell us. This reminds me of a joke.
In good old days it was normal in Kabul for the police to catch any person from the street and put him with other prisoners in Jail, in case a prisoner escaped from the prison over night. I wonder if David Hicks or any other became the victom of this practice.

I fully agree with your proposal to empower the General Assembly to bring peace and order in this world. All countries should have equal rights and the decisions could be made with a simple majority. The voting rights should be allocated in accordance with the populations of their countries. Decision about sanctions should be made on the basis of a two third majority.

With regard to the Monsters, let us follow the example of merlyn and show our backs to them. I have tried this methodology on ghosts and have experienced their disappearance.

Rex Minor

Posted by pakistan | Report as abusive

Pakistan: “With regard to the Monsters, let us follow the example of merlyn and show our backs to them. I have tried this methodology on ghosts and have experienced their disappearance.”

Did you ever see a unicorn? Mermaid? Care to share your experiences with a genie? Is Bin Laden a genie? Man, I cannot believe you are living in this century.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive

@KP Singh
You are just obsessed with BL! Whay do’nt you address your question to George W, who is familiar with BL entire family: He could provide a credible answer. Please do not compel me to use the merlyn method against you!!

Rx Minor

Posted by pakistan | Report as abusive

Rex Minor,

GW Bush was an idiot. America had him as a President at the wrong time. I wish Obama had become President in 2000. Things would have been done right and by now this war would have been over. The country that facilitated all the Islamic Jihad after the Soviet defeat is Pakistan. Everything else happened due to the support of Jihadists in all directions by the Pakistani army. They were doing all that in order to get at India. But they did not realize that their actions would hurt unintended targets, especially the US.

In 2001, there were two people who were in wrong spots – GW Bush as American President and Musharraf as Pakistan’s chief. Musharraf is the extreme opposite of Bush. So the idiot fell into the trap laid by Musharraf and burnt everything down. After eight years in doldrums, the American efforts began to get serious after Obama came to power. As soon as that happened, Musharraf was gone. Pakistan has been choking with terrorist blowback. Al Qaeda has been weakened considerably. But it is a bit too late. Things have gotten out of control.

Now the oncoming wikileaks about American collusion with terrorist organization is going to hurt relations with “allies”. The US is busy offering advanced apologies to countries like India. America is paying the price for playing with poisonous snakes. Pakistan too has been paying the price for breeding them.

If America goes down because of this, so will Pakistan. They both are responsible to today’s global Islamic terrorist menace that has gone beyond even Al Qaeda’s control. They have to do nothing from here on. Self motivated Jihadi monsters are sprouting everywhere. Just yesterday a Somali born kid tried to detonate a car bomb in a tiny little town of Portland in Oregon, USA. I have been to this town long ago. Most people do not even know this place exists, even in America. It is a beautiful place in a very picturesque setting. And many of these kids are like you, living abroad, yet mind filled with cave mindset.

I am right now in Vancouver, BC on family business. Portland is not very for from where I am. It is shocking to see that Jihad has spread this far.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive

@KPSingh
Even if I go along with your line of thinking, many others wo’nt.
George was not bright, his father preferred the younger son, Musharaf was a plain soldier who came into power, because of the errors made by Sharif, the Prime Minister, BinLaden was not a genious, he went over to Afghanistan with his wealth to aid the Resistance against Russians, and Somalians were not revolutionaries by nature, but were forced to become one after the American intervention into the domestic dispute among different tribes, and so on and so forth. It does not matter any more, it was clinton who fired his missiles to shoot down spuds in Afghanistan( the words of a US Senator) and started the Bush fire and all of us have ever since become the victims as well as the perpetrators. War has its own dynamics and ceates RESISTANCE. You are not familiar with this but we are in Europe. Try to read Warburton experiences about Afghan resistance, the death of the British ambassador and his bodyguards in the streets of Kabul and vengance against the British citizens in the streets of London. The phenomina that we are witnessing today is not new,one needs hell of a courage to recognise it. I know your way of thinking is probably easier, blame every thing on the religion and all muslim Govts. around the world and identify the perpetrator as victims.

The majority of people in Europe want peace. We have suffered heavy casualties in ww1 and 2 and the severals before. We have peace now in Europe, but a number of our leaders still obsessed with the colonialist and imperial past have seen the opportunity to engage our military ouside Europe, at the behest of Obama and have so far managed to ignore the majority of the people views, and therefore risking the security which we have got used to now.
I know Canada is relatively peaceful, cross over the Hudson river and you find Detroit, the industry Giant and the place where criminals control the underworld and the streets at night.

mr Obama is an imposter, perhaps expert in communal work and constitution jargon but not talented to grasp the world politics. He is following squarely the agenda of the zionists, who reluctantly brought him into power. He has collected a team of clintonian advisers who are out of date with today’s realities of the world.

Finaly , let me tell you the difference between diplomacy and war is very simple. In diplomacy you start a dialogue with your opposite number and continue until you agree jointly to a solution. In war one of the party starts it and then it hs its own dynamics and no end in sight. This is how I see it, so do not be surprised if the little people appear in the streets of Vancouver. Have a peaceful days.

Rex Minor

Posted by pakistan | Report as abusive

Myra

“…….the environment in which al Qaeda operates as it steers a course between its own aspirations to global jihad and those, like the Afghan Taliban, more focused on national causes.

***It has been hard and now impossible for the ISAF to defeat Taliban which are gorillas. Neutralizing AlQaida, the faceless and mysterious enemy cannot be even dreamt of.

The day they planned Iraq invasion. this became a writing on the wall.

Even without Iraq invasion, Al-Qaida would not have been defeated.

Posted by Rajeev2011 | Report as abusive

Detroit is on detroit river, between US/Canada.

Hudson river is in New York.

Good people are not available so criminals are controlling the underworld in Detroit. Gun Culture is not new to Detroit even before the economic crisis.

Posted by Rajeev2011 | Report as abusive

Pakistan: “Musharaf was a plain soldier who came into power, because of the errors made by Sharif, the Prime Minister,”

Musharraf staged the Kargil war without the permission of his government. Nawaz Sharif was the official head of state of Pakistan at that time. More than 400 Pakistani soldiers died in that war and Musharraf took no responsibility for them and lied openly that no Pakistani soldiers were involved in it. He took over power through a coup, which is an illegal act. Pakistan was not in any emergency turmoil where the head of state and government had suddenly disappeared. Now you are quietly painting your own picture saying Sharif made “errors” and Musharraf as a plain soldier. Musharraf is a uniformed crook who would sell his mother if the situation demands. He is responsible for what Pakistan is facing today. He is a convincing liar who manages to wriggle out of tight corners by lying his way out.

“BinLaden was not a genious, he went over to Afghanistan with his wealth to aid the Resistance against Russians, and Somalians were not revolutionaries by nature, but were forced to become one after the American intervention into the domestic dispute among different tribes, and so on and so forth.”

You make it sound as though there is nothing wrong with your Islamic brothers like Bin Laden and are trying to portray the Jihadists as victims of Western imperialism.
But your governments took enormous money and weapons from the same Westerners to fight their own wars and the wars with the West.

“It does not matter any more, it was clinton who fired his missiles to shoot down spuds in Afghanistan( the words of a US Senator) and started the Bush fire and all of us have ever since become the victims as well as the perpetrators”

Clinton was not celebrating July 4th by sending in cruise missiles into Afghanistan. Bin Laden had his elements bomb the US embassies and kill hundreds of innocent civilians in Kenya and Tanzania. And Mr Bin Laden had set up terrorist training camps in the barren lands of Afghanistan. The cruise missiles killed many terrorists, Pakistani army regulars and caused considerable damage.

“I know your way of thinking is probably easier, blame every thing on the religion and all muslim Govts. around the world and identify the perpetrator as victims.”

No it is you who is assuming that all Muslims belong to one block that is standing against the rest of the world’s “oppression.” In that view point every non-Muslim appears like a monster to you. Currently the global issue is terrorism being used as weapon by many Muslim groups and governments in some Islamic nations. You are trying to paint them all as victims of some imperialistic force. Not all of them are victims. Some are real criminals using Islam as a means to achieve their ends. This is not new. Jinnah did it many decades ago. Today the world is fighting only those extremist elements who have hijacked the Muslim world to their advantage.

“I know Canada is relatively peaceful, cross over the Hudson river and you find Detroit, the industry Giant and the place where criminals control the underworld and the streets at night.”

I don’t have to go that far. I have Mumbai, Karachi and many cities nearby who have the same thing. Crime is a part of all countries. Dawood Ibrahim is wanted in India for his criminal activities. He is living in Karachi under the protection of the ISI. There are criminals and gangs in Canada too. There are neo-Nazi groups in the Eastern part of Germany and Russia. They are all local and local law and order systems can handle them. Do not compare them with your mentor Bin Laden. He definitely is a monster today. Whether he is a byproduct of the war against the Soviets or not does not matter. He has become a menace to the world by inspiring many misguided people to cause harm to innocent people across the world.

“mr Obama is an imposter, perhaps expert in communal work and constitution jargon but not talented to grasp the world politics. He is following squarely the agenda of the zionists, who reluctantly brought him into power. He has collected a team of clintonian advisers who are out of date with today’s realities of the world.”

Islamic world courted the Nazis during world war II because the Nazis were plundering the Jews. Therefore do not assume that all is wonderful with the Islamic world. There is no religion in any of these. It is only power politics and political moves which brings two extreme groups together for sometime. During WW II, the Communists and the Western nations fought together against the Nazi Germany. As soon as Germany was decimated, the alliance of convenience ended and cold war started. The West and the Islamic world united against the Soviets. As soon as the Soviets were decimated, the alliance of convenience again ended and the new war on terror has started. There are no permanent allies in global geo-politics; only temporary alliances.

By attacking the US, Bin Laden, a man with no country, launched a war. The US has come to fight his war on his ground. That’s all. The US is trying to find him and eliminate him and also destroy the support base for him. That’s all.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive

Rex Minor:

“Finaly , let me tell you the difference between diplomacy and war is very simple. In diplomacy you start a dialogue with your opposite number and continue until you agree jointly to a solution. In war one of the party starts it and then it hs its own dynamics and no end in sight. ”

-Agree with you, Excellent Analysis!

Posted by Umairpk | Report as abusive

KPSingh:to Rex” Do not compare them with your mentor Bin Laden. He definitely is a monster today.”

-Bin Laden does not exist, he is just a bogeyman, even the people of the USA know this and demanding a life free of fear. Yes, the real threat from the organization (Al-Qaeda) maybe there, but persoanlly I don’t think Bin Laden is alive.
Looking forward to the Wikileak documents on Pakistan.

Posted by Umairpk | Report as abusive

Umairpk: “Bin Laden does not exist, he is just a bogeyman, even the people of the USA know this and demanding a life free of fear. Yes, the real threat from the organization (Al-Qaeda) maybe there, but persoanlly I don’t think Bin Laden is alive.”

If that is the case, Pakistan’s military and its civilian government would have announced it. Hillary Clinton has been saying that the guy is not living in the caves, but in some house in North Waziristan. Until it is proven that the guy is dead, it is only hearsay.

It does not matter. Global terrorism rooted in Islamic radicalism has begun to burn everyone, Pakistanis included. Hopefully this menace is contained and destroyed soon by the powers that be.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive

@KPSingh
Enough said and read once again Brian-decree analysis of the situation and the honest and sound solution for peace seekers. I was also influenced by the comments expressed by another blogger, probably an american from Portland after the FBI show, somewhat along the line.
We are very greatful to the Govt. for keeping us safe, scanning millions before they board the plane, and controlling in the future every inch of a city before allowing its citizens to enter them etc etc.
They could also avoid all this security work inconviencing millions byclosing down 700 odd bsis in the world and pull out their military from the foreign land.

Mr Singh, it is nice reading your detailed account of the events, but not your stance waiting for the next announcement from Pax America. America is a paper tiger and despite its atomic power will be defeated, the words of Chairman MAO, not of the so called Islamists. I am very much impressed from the progress we are mking in Europe, and equaly admire China, the asian giant which is spreading its influence in the world. India in my vierw is the Asian giant in its own right, and has the potzential to become the second super power along with China in the next century, but it has a lot of home work to do and follow pro life strategies.

We should take a break from the horror stories and enjoy the weekend.

Rex Minor

PS Vancouver is fine but canada is very lonely spot of the world. A vast country bigger in size but very small population.

Posted by pakistan | Report as abusive

@Umair

““Finaly , let me tell you the difference between diplomacy and war is very simple. In diplomacy you start a dialogue with your opposite number and continue until you agree jointly to a solution. In war one of the party starts it and then it hs its own dynamics and no end in sight. ”

-Agree with you, Excellent Analysis!”

***If you truly agree over this and know that 1965 India-Pak war was not started by India, then you would agree that Pakistan has not thought of diplomacy as a solution.

I more or less agree with Rex over that. Let us apply this to our opinion formation also.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

@Rex

Hudson River is not near Detroit, it is in NY city.
River near US-canada border which you can crossover to enter Detroit is called Detroit River.

Posted by rehmat | Report as abusive

“Looking forward to the Wikileak documents on Pakistan.”
Posted by Umairpk

From what I hear, they aren’t going to be very complimentary in nature, so if I was a Pakistani, I would NOT be looking forward to the leaks.

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive

Pakistan: “Enough said and read once again Brian-decree analysis of the situation and the honest and sound solution for peace seekers. I was also influenced by the comments expressed by another blogger, probably an american from Portland after the FBI show, somewhat along the line.”

Whatever follows your line of thought becomes honest, rational, blah, blah.. Whatever does not, even if it is truth, becomes an imperialist, Western media and government propaganda. Not long ago, Americans were the greatest allies supporting Jihad against the Russians. Now they are imperialists trying to fight Islam. Very nice! Americans have committed a lot of blunders either out of ignorance or short sightedness or arrogance. All countries have. But in an overall sense, the US is still a better country than many others for being benevolent most of the time. Pakistan is a nuclear power, has a respectable military and has survived without running the nation all these years because of the American support. But Pakistan has betrayed them by housing Islamic radicals who went against the Americans. Therefore it is justifiable for the Americans to corner Pakistan on one side and hit the radicals on the other. Do you think Pakistan will keep quiet if some lunatic attacked them? Why is their army fighting the Mehsuds? Why is it justified for Pakistan to attack whoever they deem to think as their enemies and not so for the US?

“They could also avoid all this security work inconviencing millions byclosing down 700 odd bsis in the world and pull out their military from the foreign land.”

First ask your beloved country Pakistan to wind down all terrorist camps, hand over the Taliban leaders in Quetta, LeT leaders, close down all the Madrasas that are breeding terrorist clones, hand over the Haqqanis, Hekmatyars, Masood Azhars etc. So long as there is global menace, the US is justified in keeping their bases. China needs to be contained to protect South East Asian waters, Australia, New Zealand and many Western allies. The world will feel safe so long as the Americans are around. That they have committed blunders is true. Many Americans themselves admit that honestly. Whenever the world faced major calamity, it always turned to the US be it slavery, WW 1, WW 2, disasters, earth quakes, floods, you name it. No one is running to China or Saudi Arabia or anyone else. That must tell something.

“America is a paper tiger and despite its atomic power will be defeated, the words of Chairman MAO, not of the so called Islamists. I am very much impressed from the progress we are mking in Europe, and equaly admire China, the asian giant which is spreading its influence in the world. India in my vierw is the Asian giant in its own right, and has the potzential to become the second super power along with China in the next century, but it has a lot of home work to do and follow pro life strategies.”

Your reliance on Mao who is responsible for the deaths of close to 30 to 40 million Chinese peasants is shocking. Mao represents the Godless Communist party. I wonder how you, who follows Islamic ideals, suddenly have become his admirer. If China continued along Mao’s path, it would be yet another North Korea, only ten times bigger and a major threat to the world. Again, it was Americans that helped China to be where it is today. Without the American market and support for the Chinese, none of what one sees there would have happened. But attic dwellers like yourself have no way of knowing what is going on in the world. Your views are skewed by hatred for others which makes the worst monsters your allies. That is what has made your beloved country Pakistan burn today. Hatred for India made Pakistan court Jihadist monsters and now they are being eaten alive by the same monsters. You are sitting comfortably in Germany, exploiting the freedom of speech and liberty meant for Germans and accusing the West for all ills. May be you should think a little bit about biting the hand that feeds you.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive

All those guys who admire MAO and China should go and research about something called ‘Black Jails’ in China. Gauntanamo Bay will look like picnic to you all then. The true horrors of communism (military rule) are beyond anyone’s imagination. And China is spreading this military ruling, communist opression in the region. Anyway do your researches and come back. Also try to find out why does China not condemn any of Islamic fundamentalists like AQ, Taliban, etc? Try to go in depth.

Posted by 777xxx777 | Report as abusive

777xxx777

If you’re trying to imply that communist dictatorships are more brutal than capitalist dictatorships you’ve failed miserably… and neglected to mention our entire political history implicating capitalist dictatorships as the most horrendous ever seen.
So I’m really not sure what your point was.. but I’m guessing you’d rather just pick a camp than spend the time trying to understand the true complexity of the situation.

Posted by brian-decree | Report as abusive

@brian-decree

“If you’re trying to imply that communist dictatorships are more brutal than capitalist dictatorships you’ve failed miserably”

Certainly NOT. As someone from India I know what capitalist dictatorship is. Brits did it to us for 200 years or so.

“So I’m really not sure what your point was”

My point was that capitalists at least do not put their OWN people in camp for just filing a complaint, against any Govt officer, in local police station.

By the way if you are trying to imply that since capitalists dictatorship is equal to communists dictatorship then none should be condemned then I would like to end this discussion right now. I never said stop condemning Capitalists. I only said think twice before pouring praises on China. Read again what I said.

Posted by 777xxx777 | Report as abusive

Yea pretty sure I read you comment.. and pretty sure it’s sitting right above mine…

You said, “The true horrors of communism (military rule) are beyond anyone’s imagination.”
Which is not true at all… what the Japanese did in China tops anything the Chinese have ever done.. Thousands of Chinese were experimented on with chemical and biological agents and dissected while they were still alive.
Their torture techniques and punishment for any form of dissent was second to none. To this day they hack up dolphins with machetes while they’re still alive.. and support almost the entire black market for endangered species, usually killed and eaten for supposed bizarre medical benefits like sexual aphrodisiac etc…

In capitalist south Vietnam, just before the war, monks used to sit in the city squares and burn themselves alive with petrol to make a statement of how brutal and repressive the government of Diem was.

I can go on forever…

But it’s not me that’s implying anything, I just expect you to follow your own advice when condemning political cultures — “Also try to find out why does China not condemn any of Islamic fundamentalists like AQ, Taliban, etc?”

Why do you not say that the true horrors of capitalism are beyond anyone’s imagination? Do you agree with this?
If yes then we have nothing left to talk about..

PS. Do you think it’s more important to judge the brutality of a government by what they do to their own citizens (the ones they are mandated to govern), than by what they do to the citizens of sovereign nations?
And don’t try to tell me for a second that this behavior is exclusive to communist governments that’s absolutely ridiculous…

Posted by brian-decree | Report as abusive

@brian
“Why do you not say that the true horrors of capitalism are beyond anyone’s imagination? Do you agree with this?”

You read nothing and conclude too much. I am copy pasting my post here again.
“Certainly NOT. As someone from India I know what capitalist dictatorship is. Brits did it to us for 200 years or so”
Does that answer your question.
Reading is fast becoming a lost art.

Both of us can go on forever because mankind’s history has been shameful. But you are single minded on picking on capitalism and not equally condemning communism. That’s what I wanted to convey that Yes capitalists have committed horrible crimes but so have communists. Why then I not see a condemnation for communists?

“Do you think it’s more important to judge the brutality of a government by what they do to their own citizens (the ones they are mandated to govern), than by what they do to the citizens of sovereign nations”

Communists China govt is NOT Mandated. Mandated Governments do NOT govern but SERVE the people who mandated them. First get your basics right.
YES it’s more important to judge the brutality of a government by what they do to their own citizens.

“And don’t try to tell me for a second that this behavior is exclusive to communist governments that’s absolutely ridiculous…”

When did I say that?? Almost all Indians on this blog accept the fact that current Indian govt has been brutal to Kashmiris and has grossly mishandled Kashmir. I would advise you to come out of your habit of presuming too much. Read, Comprehend and then Comment.

Posted by 777xxx777 | Report as abusive

I don’t condemn communism because I’m responding to you and creating a counterpoint to balance yours, and because capitalism is a much more oppressive system in general than socialism, which accounts for a tiny minority of governments in history..

Your paste only highlights your bias because if you really wanted to make you point honestly all you would have to do is paste both your comments together, as such:

ON CAPITALIST DICTATORSHIP
“As someone from India I know what capitalist dictatorship is. Brits did it to us for 200 years or so”

ON COMMUNIST DICTATORSHIP
“The true horrors of communism (military rule) are beyond anyone’s imagination”

This provides the context in which your bias is obvious.

Also the question of whether its better to oppress your own citizens or others was not directed at china, it was a question about autonomous governments, attempting to find rationality on your comment:

“My point was that capitalists at least do not put their OWN people in camp for just filing a complaint, against any Govt officer, in local police station.”

Aside from the fact that this is completely untrue as I pointed out, I find the fact that you are biased in this way very disturbing..

I think it’s more horrendous to treat your own citizens in a half decent way while plundering, capturing and destroying other countries and cultures, than it is to treat your own citizens poorly while respecting other countries and cultures enough to leave them alone.

What your suggesting is a very racist ideology, and I think you’re too proud to admit when you’re wrong. In fact you look like the kind of person that is willing to go to extreme lengths to avoid that. The conversation is over.

Posted by brian-decree | Report as abusive

“capitalism is a much more oppressive system in general than socialism”

That is debatable ofcourse.

“your paste only highlights your bias because if you really wanted to make you point honestly all you would have to do is paste both your comments together”

I would say there is a communication gap here may be due to fact that we may be belonging to different cultures and hence sense of judgement of bias may be different and therefore reflected differently in language. You asked:

“Why do you not say that the true horrors of capitalism are beyond anyone’s imagination? Do you agree with this?”

And I wanted to reply that as an Indian I certainly know the horrors of capitalism because Brits did it to us for 200 years. So there really is no bias in this but if still u think otherwise then do so on your own.

“Aside from the fact that this is completely untrue as I pointed out,”

You may choose to think so if it makes you feel better. Closing eyes does not mean that problems does not exist.

“I think it’s more horrendous to treat your own citizens in a half decent way while plundering, capturing and destroying other countries and cultures, than it is to treat your own citizens poorly while respecting other countries and cultures enough to leave them alone”

Our opinions differ on this one. Seems you are carrying some sort of hatred and may be a feeling of vengeance in your heart against capitalists due to some particular incident in your life. I sympathize with you.

“What your suggesting is a very racist ideology, and I think you’re too proud to admit when you’re wrong”

WOW If someone does not accept your viewpoint then one is racist. I definitely do not want to continue the discussion with someone who loses temper and sense of language so quickly. Goodbye!

Posted by 777xxx777 | Report as abusive

you are sick.. you need help

Posted by brian-decree | Report as abusive

ha ha ha ha
Thanks for suggestion!

Posted by 777xxx777 | Report as abusive

ha ha ha ha
Thanks for suggestion!

Posted by 777xxx777 | Report as abusive

Thanks for suggestion!

Posted by 777xxx777 | Report as abusive

Thanks for making it obvious!

Posted by brian-decree | Report as abusive

the danger of AL Qaeda is its ideology, not its physic. As ideology it penertartes every where. look its present as uS army capten which kill some of his army colleagues. Its spread to many country, pakistan, yemen and also in NATO member countries and others US strategic allies including gulf countries.
Because Al Qaeda is create by US, US knows the root cause of its devian, the solution is not war on terror, but to solve the root cause of the devians.
Indonesia is one of the victims of US wrong doing. The sooner the better the problem solve.

Posted by OKTA | Report as abusive