Comments on: After Holbrooke, chances of political settlement in Afghanistan fall http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/12/15/after-holbrooke-chances-of-political-settlement-in-afghanistan-fall/ Perspectives on Pakistan Thu, 01 Oct 2015 19:31:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: KPSingh01 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/12/15/after-holbrooke-chances-of-political-settlement-in-afghanistan-fall/comment-page-2/#comment-34667 Sun, 19 Dec 2010 17:08:10 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=6546#comment-34667 Cave Mullah: “The talk about Indians torture in Kashmir is a diversion.”

No it is about Richard Holbrooke. Take a break from whatever it is that you are smoking.

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By: pakistan http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/12/15/after-holbrooke-chances-of-political-settlement-in-afghanistan-fall/comment-page-2/#comment-34662 Sun, 19 Dec 2010 11:53:43 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=6546#comment-34662 PS
The talk about Indians torture in Kashmir is a diversion.
Rex Minor

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By: pakistan http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/12/15/after-holbrooke-chances-of-political-settlement-in-afghanistan-fall/comment-page-2/#comment-34661 Sun, 19 Dec 2010 11:52:18 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=6546#comment-34661 Those who visit Iraq and see the grave of general Gordon, would have the chance to read the following;

He fought well, and kept the faith!

Mr Holbrooke was a shrewd diplomat and recognised that the so called Taliban offer of talks after USA withdrawl meant surrender!
Let this be inscripted on the grave of Mr Holbrooke; he refused to surrender and kept his faith in the American Power.
Like the former chancellor of Germany said that Alexander the great was the only wise one who left Afghanistan with the shortest stay possible!

Rex Minor

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By: Mortal1 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/12/15/after-holbrooke-chances-of-political-settlement-in-afghanistan-fall/comment-page-2/#comment-34660 Sun, 19 Dec 2010 03:34:23 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=6546#comment-34660 Talking about torture in Indian Kashmir, here’s a peice on the angelic deeds of the Pakistani army in PoK.

“Pakistan Army and ISI is kidnapping and killing people of Gilgit Baltistan”

http://story.pakistantelegraph.com/index .php/ct/9/cid/8c3d7d78943a99c7/id/721313  /cs/1/ht/Pakistan-Army-and-ISI-is-kidna pping-and-killing-people-of-Gilgit-Balti stan/

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By: pakistan http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/12/15/after-holbrooke-chances-of-political-settlement-in-afghanistan-fall/comment-page-2/#comment-34657 Sat, 18 Dec 2010 20:03:41 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=6546#comment-34657 Let us not overstretch the issue. The world is concerned with the tortures being committed by the so called civilised western world leader! The same leader who is called the big Satan or evil by the Iranians and the Imperialist country which has been waging wars against the weaker Nations based on fabricated lies, says Mr Chavez.
Now about the torture by the Indian military in kashmir or other parts of India must be obvious to every person with a minimal common sence. Like some one mentioned torture is common in most underdeveloped countries of the world( ofcourse there are various types of tortures, the ordinary one or the most advanced one). I look at the simple logic that if a Govt. uses its military against its citizens, then the torture by the State in that country must be the accepted practice and order of the day. I can straightaway single out few countries in this category, India, Pakistan,Siri Lanka, Burma(I refuse to recognise its new name), Philipines and there must be many others. Mind you I do not regard police manhandling and beating of its citizens holding street demonstrations, in these countries as tortures. I also believe that Indian torture of kashmiris is not discriminatory, but must be a common practice by the police and military against any citizen of other states as well. I would not regard beating in public with sticks of the demonstrators, who are protesting against the Govt. for one reason or other as torture. It is regretful in a democracy but people get used to it similar to the corporal punishment in schools, I guess in Britain it is still allowed?

Rex Minor

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By: Mortal1 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/12/15/after-holbrooke-chances-of-political-settlement-in-afghanistan-fall/comment-page-2/#comment-34654 Sat, 18 Dec 2010 18:03:38 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=6546#comment-34654 As for the $20 bn deals between China & Pakistan, bear in mind, these are very long term deals. They are not immediate orders to buy Pakistani products by China or anything like that but rather long term commitments (5, 10, 15 yrs +) by China to build various projects inside Pakistan. So although it will help Pakistan’s economy, the end result will be a net gain by China. Also, for most of these projects to get started, Pakistan will have to stabalize first or else the Chinese will not risk their investments.

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By: Mortal1 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/12/15/after-holbrooke-chances-of-political-settlement-in-afghanistan-fall/comment-page-2/#comment-34653 Sat, 18 Dec 2010 17:55:28 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=6546#comment-34653 Umairpk: “Jinnah was a great statesman, Gandhi was a shortsighted, myopic person who did not take into consideration the concerns of Muslims.”

You need a history lesson Umair, the REAL history & not the Pakistani version of it. So, browse the web & check it out. Gandhi is the reason that you have a Pakistan today & he paid for that, with his life. A vast majority of the Congress leaders were against the partition (with Vallabh bhai Patel being the strongest voice of all). It was only Jinnah & Nehru who wanted the partition in order to acheive their own personal ambitions. If not for Gandhi, there would have been NO Pakistan but only India with Valabh bhai Patel as the first Prime Minister.

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By: KPSingh01 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/12/15/after-holbrooke-chances-of-political-settlement-in-afghanistan-fall/comment-page-2/#comment-34652 Sat, 18 Dec 2010 17:46:49 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=6546#comment-34652 Umairpk: “Jinnah was a great statesman, Gandhi was a shortsighted, myopic person who did not take into consideration the concerns of Muslims.”

Gandhi fasted to stop violence against Muslims. It angered Hindus so much that a Hindu fanatic shot him dead. Gandhi preached non-violence and co-existence. He saw the machination of the British in causing a dangerous divide. He quit from politics after 1947 and settled down to social work.
Jinnah fits what you describe – short sighted, myopic and pretending to be concerned about Muslims. As Pakistan has clearly demonstrated over the years, it is a product of Jinnah’s selfish and short sighted ambition. Jinnah became a head of state. And his country fell apart ever since. It is still on a tail spin.

“As a spokesman and representative of Muslims, Jinnah a smart and educated guy simply outsmarted the congress thugs and singlehanded manner won the independence of Indian Muslims. Today we proudly call ourselves Pakistanis and respect Jinnah as founder of Pakistan. More next time.”

Lives of Muslims has not become better by making a country for Muslims. Feudalism, ethnic rivalry, linguistic clash (East Pakistan), sectarian violence, radicalism, corruption, wars in the neighborhood, suicide blasts etc are the legacy of Jinnah. You can pray to him as much as you want. Reality and truth remain the same – Jinnah’s legacy is doomed for complete failure.

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By: KPSingh01 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/12/15/after-holbrooke-chances-of-political-settlement-in-afghanistan-fall/comment-page-2/#comment-34651 Sat, 18 Dec 2010 17:34:14 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=6546#comment-34651 Umairpk: “division was and is the destiny of India. It was divided in 1947, subdivided it will be again when Kashmir breaks off followed by the Maoists.”

You are partially correct in this statement. The British planted enough land mines so that India would implode and fall apart. The chances of its survival as a single nation was close to nil in 1947. But the British were wrong. They underestimated the capability of Indian leaders who put national growth as a priority over other things, including military might.

From 1947 to 1960, growth was the focus. India had a very weak military and in 1962 it was exposed. In reality what has made India become united slowly over the years is Pakistan’s frequent assaults in various forms. If Pakistan had minded its own business like Bangladesh or Nepal, India still was on the verge of self destruction. Kashmir had become peaceful during these years. Problems arose elsewhere.

Inept leadership and divisive politics did push India to the brink. But your military leaders had no patience. They wanted to see India burn too quickly. What they did ended up providing patriotic feelings to Indians. So we thank your military for that. After 1991, India made the right choice and more accomplishments and progress have made India more cohesive. Kashmir is only a blip on the screen. No one is going to mess with India on Kashmir. Presidents and Prime Ministers of wealthy and powerful nations are making trips to India one by one making business deals. If your generals try to sabotage that, then your country will face more isolation.

Maoism was more prevalent than today. In southern states of India, it has lost its steam because of economic growth. It has managed to survive in the relatively backward states in North and Central India. But here too economic growth is spreading in all directions. It is only a matter of time and Maoism will lose its steam there as well. There will always be small groups of criminals trying to wield the gun. But that is part of the fabric.

“You are a breed of insecure people who resent the creation of Pakistan.”

If Pakistan had not become like a criminal in the neighborhood, we will not be concerned about your country that much. People always have to be watchful in a neighborhood prone to crime. We are being cautious. We have no regrets about Pakistan going its way. We know it is for real. But it was an unnecessary land mine set up by the imperial British to blow up the sub-continent. Unfortunately the land mine is going to blow on their face. It is only a matter of time.

“We are a nation who won its independence and learnt to protect its freedom.”

It is not about your freedom that we are talking about. Instead of keeping it your country is trying to affect the freedom of others in the neighborhood. That is the real problem. Your military’s freedom is well protected. They have set up a barricade around themselves by putting the ordinary people of Pakistan as sand bags.

“If you mess with us now you know what will happen, just accept the reality that Pakistan is.”

We do not want to have anything to with your country. It is your country that has been a constant irritant using one excuse or the other. Your country is suffering from paranoia like a mental patient and is throwing stones at people nearby out of that.

And your threats with nukes do not make much impact on us. We have enough systems in place to take care of that. Plus the world is not going to let you hold on to dangerous weapons for too long. Now that your country is pissing the Americans off, trust me, the Americans will mess your country up even more.

“On making an enemy out of US, don’t worry we know how to play with fire.”

Sure. We can see that. Suicide bombs are going off everyday. Drones are killing key militants who have been valuable assets to Pakistan’s military. A lot of investment has been blown away by the military. That is why I see news of protest against drones being propped up by your military. Keep playing with fire. I don’t think you are aware that it is burning your country from within. That is why we from outside can see the self destruction process in progress. Being inside, blinded by pride and emotion, you are not going to see it. And that is no surprise.

“We have had super powers poking in our backyard for 30 years, we are making our choices and will stand by it. Thanks for showing concern though.”

Super powers poked their noses. But your generals leased out your nation to gain benefits out of it. During those years, battles were confined to regions outside of Pakistan. Now the situation is different. Pakistan is now being realized as part of the problem. That was not the case during those “wonder” years. By becoming an enemy of the US and tilting towards China, Pakistan is placing the last nail on its coffin. The US will hammer it down. Wait and watch. Pakistan has survived all these years with American tax payers money. China does not pay. It takes. If it sinks 20 billion, it will count every penny out of it and take 30 billion back.

Blinded by emotions and feelings of jealousy and frustration your countrymen are falling into a whirlpool from which there is going to be no escape. Enjoy the remaining days of 2010. 2011 onwards things will not be so good.

And you can keep your nukes and kiss them everyday.

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By: Tiu http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/12/15/after-holbrooke-chances-of-political-settlement-in-afghanistan-fall/comment-page-2/#comment-34646 Sat, 18 Dec 2010 16:32:19 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=6546#comment-34646 Richard Holbrooke, his intellect and seemingly Herculean efforts will be a hard vacuum to fill. I’m sure America has plenty of good, honest, intellectual, hardworking citizens who could become a diplomat of equivalent standing.
I hope they can make it through the knuckle-heads who have sacrificed democracy for a fast buck from the lobbiers and are leading the west to global conflict.

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