Pakistan, blasphemy, and a tale of two women

January 24, 2011

blasphemyprotestFor all the bad news coming out of Pakistan, you can’t help but admire the courage of two very different women who did what their political leaders failed to do — stood up to the religious right after the killing of Punjab governor Salman Taseer over his call for changes to the country’s blasphemy laws.

One is Sherry Rehman, a politician from the ruling Pakistan People’s Party, who first proposed amendments to the laws. The other is actress Veena Malik, who challenged the clerical establishment for criticising her for appearing on Indian reality show Big Boss.  I’m slightly uncomfortable about grouping the two together — the fact that both are Pakistani women does not make them any more similar than say, for example, two Pakistani men living in Rawalpindi or  London. Yet at the same time, the idea that Pakistan can produce such different and outspoken women says a lot about the diversity and energy of a country which can be too easily written off as a failing state or  bastion of the Islamist religious right.

Sherry Rehman is living as a virtual prisoner in her home in Karachi after being threatened over her support for amendments to the blasphemy laws. She has refused to leave the country for her own safety, nor indeed to accept the position adopted by her party leaders — that now is not the time to amend the laws. Their argument appears to be that trying to amend the laws now would just add more fuel to the fire after religious leaders defended Taseer’s killing and organised huge protests in favour of the current legal provisions.

“There’s never a right time,” Britain’s Guardian newspaper quoted her as saying.  “Blasphemy cases are continually popping up, more horror stories from the ground. How do you ignore them?” 

“We know from history that appeasement doesn’t pay. It only emboldens them,” said Rehman.

For background, here is the text of the original law introduced into the Indian Penal Code by British colonial rulers in 1860:

Section 295: Injuring or defiling place of worship, with intent to insult the religion of any class:

“Whoever destroys, damages, or defiles a place of worship, or any object held sacred by any class of persons with the intention of thereby insulting the religion of any class of persons or with the knowledge that any class of persons is likely to consider such destruction, damage or defilement as an insult to their religion, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to two years, or with fine, or with both.”

Here is the version of one of the added clauses which have caused so much acrimony in Pakistan, as amended in 1986 by Pakistan’s then military ruler, General Zia-ul-Haq:

Section 295-C: Use of derogatory remarks, etc, in respect of the Holy Prophet (pbuh)

“Whoever by words, either spoken or written, or by visible representation, or by any imputation, innuendo, or insinuation, directly or indirectly defiles the sacred name of the Holy Prophet Muhammed (peace be upon him) shall be punished with death, or imprisonment for life and shall also be liable to fine.”

The amendment loses any acknowledgement of intent. Yet intent is not only a fundamental part of any legal system but also an essential attribute of faith. Indeed when Britain abolished its own archaic blasphemy laws in 2008,  and these were replaced with laws against inciting religious and racial hatred, the idea of intent was retained.

The row which caused Taseer’s death was about amending the Pakistani penal code to reintroduce the concept of intent and end the death penalty. It was never about repealing the laws, nor about allowing people to insult Islam or the prophet Muhammed.

That is the reasoned argument. The leaders of the religious right in Pakistan who have brought thousands out into the street in defence of Taseer’s killer would know that both the original colonial law and its amendment were man-made. They would know too, since they are also scholars, the significance of the meaning of intent. But reasoned argument does not work against street power.

Then there was Veena Malik, who according to the Express Tribune, became the first Pakistani woman to reach the top 10 trends on Twitter after she went on television to defend her performance on the Indian reality show.  During a popular talk show (see video here), she talked back, or even over, her clerical detractors,  and accordng to Pakistan newspaper reports, demanded to know why they were so ready to criticise her while failing to condemn suicide bombings or honour killings.

Even those who are probably not fans of reality television (and I’d count myself among them) praised her courage for speaking up at a time when so many have been silenced.

“Her response to the Mufti and the host, brought to the forefront the harassment women have to face that has conveniently been camouflaged as ‘honour and dignity’. But what really pushed me to write this blog was a question Veena asked Mufti Abdul Qawi: ‘Why am I being treated this way? Why am I being questioned? What is my fault, Mufti sahab? Because I am a woman? A soft target?’ wrote Sana Saleem at Dawn.

“I recall thinking at one point during the show, how Veena Malik did not represent me … But after watching her response to the slurs being hurled her way, I take it back. Veena Malik represents me and many, many women in this country who have been subjected to moral policing. In a country where rape is justified, murderers glorified and women threatened by fatwas, Veena speaks for me and many others.”

At the Express Tribune, blogger Saad Zuberi described her as “the only person in Pakistan’s ultra-holy green-tinted limelight right now who isn’t afraid to say it  like it is.”

“She’s bold, honest and pretty straightforward, which is something I can’t say for many Pakistanis out there. Sad, I know, but true. We’re all busy being pathetic and jealous and confused, while this woman has, as a friend aptly pointed out, displayed something lacking from not only our so-called saviours but the country at large: balls.”

Comments

“We know from history that appeasement doesn’t pay. It only emboldens them,” said Rehman.

Perfect to the point. May be the super intelligent believers can tell why most of ‘Islamic’, ‘Holy’, ‘Believer’ countries give pathetic life to their women?? Does Islam teaches to treat women as chattel?? Does Islam teach to glorify the killing of rape victims for restoring so called honour?? Does Islam teaches to treat women as a mere child giving machine and nothing more??

The parameter of any society’s maturity and civilisation is how well it treats its women. And most of ‘Holy’ ‘Islamic’ ‘Believer’ societies would rank among some of the lowest in the whole world. What’s the holiness in treating women as chattel?? Beats me.

I admire the courage of Rehman for speaking the truth despite of dangers to her life. Pakistan needs more like her to outnumber the fanatic mullahs.

Posted by 777xxx777 | Report as abusive
 

Veena’s crime is that she was performing in India, Same treatment has been given to other Pakistanis actors and actresses in Past, I remember same thing happened to Pop star Ali Zafar for acting in Indian movie “Tere Bin Laden” in fact I felt like I am watching repeat telecast of the episode of Ali Zafar bashing. Even host and his biased view was same.

Veena was doing what she had to do to remain in the show in her personal capacity, how she has made Pakistan ashamed for her acts ?

It confirms the hate and envy of Pakistan against India and how paranoid Pakistanis are. Pakistan only produce vulgar dance shows, stage plays with foul language about sisters and daughters and B grade movies which never make to any international forum. Pakistanis feel proud when their stars stage these vulgar plays in London or Toronto but when same thing happen in India they cannot tolerate it.If Pakistanis happily spend already scarce money on a movie ticket for an Indian movie and watch so called nudity of an Indian actress why do they criticize a Pakistani actress for doing same in India.

Watch this Pakistani show about how “Star Plus” an Indian channel is waging a war against Pakistan and RAW is funding it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZkLbnDNh eI&feature=email&email=comment_received

Funny part is when a Fanatic Mullah says Star plus show are deflating the HATE of MUSLIMS against HINDUS.

Get a life people.

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive
 

Before the carnage, generally the liberals get targeted and eliminated one by one. Then it becomes a cascade where they round up anyone who they think is a liberal and finish them off. This sends fear through the spines of those who are moderate in their hearts, but cannot express it in the open. Many simply switch sides to save their skins and pray that someone will come to help liberate them. Pakistan has reached the first stage. From here on we will hear news on a lot more assassinations, and exodus of talented people. This is an unfortunate development. Hope Pakistanis come through this soon.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

In the Telegraph newspaper, there is an article on ten least happy places in the world. Eight are in Africa. One in the Middle East (Yemen) and one in Asia. I don’t have to mention which one it is. Take a look for yourself:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/econo mics/8275782/The-10-least-prosperous-cou ntries-in-the-world-in-pictures.html

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

> Watch this Pakistani show about how “Star Plus” an Indian channel is waging a war against Pakistan and RAW is funding it.

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZkLbnDNh eI&feature=email&email=comment_received

> Funny part is when a Fanatic Mullah says Star plus show are deflating the HATE of MUSLIMS against HINDUS.

Looks like Indian “soft power” is another existential threat!

The English language absorbs words from other languages and becomes richer. Pluralistic societies like India and the US absorb influences from around the world and become richer. Islam too has become richer in its Sufi strain by absorbing influences from other spiritual streams. Unfortunately, a hardcore group refuses to accept any sort of external influence. It’s a sign of weakness and insecurity rather than strength. As I read somewhere, they’re neglecting the ‘deen’ (heart or spirit) in favour of the ‘mazhab’ (ritual).

Regards,
Ganesh Prasad

Posted by prasadgc | Report as abusive
 

Myra,

The video referenced by punjabiyaar (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZkLbnDN h) suggests an important topic for you to explore in this blog.

The video clip is about the influence of the Indian channel Star TV on Pakistani audiences, especially children. The statement made by the mullah (in all seriousness) towards the end of the clip deserves serious analysis. He says, “The hatred that we (Muslims) [must] feel towards Hindus is reducing on account of these TV programs. We are coming closer to Hindus because of them.” Apparently, this is a bad thing.

This worldview works against everything that we assume we’re working towards. If it is considered undesirable to reduce hatred, come closer and gain a greater understanding of other people and other faiths, then there is no alternative to indefinite strife, because the non-Muslim world isn’t going to go away. And with the massive public demonstrations in Pakistan in support of Salman Taseer’s killer, we no longer have the comfort that this ideology is a fringe or minority view.

This suggests that Kashmir or 1971 isn’t the main obstacle standing in the way of peace between Pakistan and India. It’s the ideology of hatred espoused by the Islamists, who are unfortunately on the ascendant.

It would be good to bring this topic out into the open and discuss it.

Regards,
Ganesh Prasad

Posted by prasadgc | Report as abusive
 

” while this woman has… balls”.


LOL!

Economy is in shambles..even after 63 years there are no rudimentary institutions…..Paks are amazing people…look at their priorities….

Posted by netizen | Report as abusive
 

Ganesh: “Unfortunately, a hardcore group refuses to accept any sort of external influence. It’s a sign of weakness and insecurity rather than strength.”

This is a symptom of decline. At this stage, looking pure and adopting puritanical stance sets in. If you observed Nazi Germany, the same thing began to set in – pure Aryan blood and then the massacre of Jews, Gypsies etc. That is the next step Pakistan is entering. The whole country is not for such a puritanical view of the world. It is just a few who will gain power in Pakistan that have this view. And it is they who will keep everyone else silent. Not all Germans were racists. It was only a few in power who drove the whole agenda. Likewise, in Pakistan those who are emerging as the power source are these conservative and puritanical retards. Their military which is run by West trained generals and commanders are hesitant to take on them because these mad mullahs are useful against others. But things have come to a point where these retards might look at controlling everything themselves rather than rely on their military for support. That is the dangerous tipping point. I really feel sorry for those ordinary citizens who dreamed of a nation for their religious beliefs. Now you understand why I do not want Khalistan. It will spin towards the same sink hole of conservatism.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

Anyone who wants a separate country for his/her/their ‘religion’ should look at Pakistan today and ask themselves, “Is it really worth it??”

Posted by 777xxx777 | Report as abusive
 

Note to the liberals & minorities in Pakistan: Either move to another country or arm & lock yourselves in your homes because I suspect, things will get a lot worse from hereon.

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

more madness: 13 yr old suicide bomber attacks Shiite procession in Lahore

http://www.dawn.com/2011/01/25/blast-nea r-bhati-gate-several-injured.html

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

BTW what about unity of Umaah when a small subset bunch of those cannot be united. Pakistan is next Afghanistan or so it seems for now. Chaos = Pakistan. Mullah (religious bigots), Military or Muhammad(message of Muhammad’s love and peace for ALL including India)…the choice should be simple but why the hell Pakis made a blunder by choosing mullah over everything else. Beats all logic.

Posted by 777xxx777 | Report as abusive
 

777xxx777: “what about unity of Umaah when a small subset bunch of those cannot be united.”

Unity has always been accomplished by creating and sustaining an enemy. For the ummah to be united, the infidels become the enemy. There are various layers of enemies – infidels against whom all believers unite; then there are other people of the book (Jews and Christians); Shias, then, Ahmedias and so on. Without a common enemy these people start turning against each other using ethnicity, religion, race etc. Of course this is true in the case of others as well.

The fundamental reliance on an external enemy to unite people is the root cause of things tending to go backward. This is like taking steroids. More dosage is needed with time. Or the enemy has to be jolted periodically to stay as one. Unfortunately that has been the model for the Islamic civilizations right from the start.

If you look at Pakistan, the country was formed by creating Hindus as an enemy. Then that enemy had to be sustained at all costs. All focus went on that and nothing was done to help build a nation. These people have been digging trenches for war all along and the trenches have become so deep that they have fallen into them themselves and are finding it difficult to climb out of it.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

“the choice should be simple but why the hell Pakis made a blunder by choosing mullah over everything else. Beats all logic.” Posted by 777xxx777 |

As per Zia-ul-Haq’a plan, the mullah factory was supposed to provide valuable “strategic depth” to Pakistan against India but ironically, this factory will end up providing “strategic death” to Pakistan.

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

Do not assume that only the backward people in Pakistan are being influenced and controlled by the Mullahs. Watch youtube on Zaid Hamid where he inspires and motivates Pakistan’s university students (Wake up Lahore). This guy is utterly emotional. He almost breaks into tears during his speech. And he can be an inspiring speaker, based on which side you are on. You must see the faces of the students when he makes punch lines. Their eyes widen or emotions find their way to expression. And he has many warped theories – according to him, based on some Quranic prediction, Pakistan’s creation was destined and it was meant to rule over Al Hind again. And he predicts that Israel will be defeated by God’s army along with Hindustan. Both will come under the rule of the Muslims. He says this is yet to come. One student asks about Jaswant Singh’s book on Jinnah. For that this guy quotes Chanakya’s strategy on which, he claims, Hindus base their policies. I don’t know if this guy really read what Chanakya wrote or not. But by pulling this name out of the air, the audience is highly impressed by his “depth” of knowledge. He says, one of Chanakya’s strategy is to welcome the enemy with open arms, ask him to celebrate, participate and finally give him a warm hug. When the enemy hugs, stab his back and then cry over his dead body for the death of a wonderful friend. The audience gave a thunderous applause for this.

So indoctrination is going on at all levels. I find educated people to be more bigoted than the illiterate ones.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

@Myra
Please note that you would not normaly receive any negative comments from muslims about women. Indian history and culture would tell you how they treat women in their society and in the European world you are defenitely aware of their struggle to achieve the current status! I could provide the details, bur suffice it to say that Switzerland allowed women to vote in 1971.

Rex Minor

Posted by pakistan | Report as abusive
 

Sherry Rahman truly is a national hero. Zindabad! I pray for her and those with her for safety and ultimately success.

I did very much like what Veena Malik told Maulvi Saheb. Good on her. But seriously, she is like Snooki on Jersey Shore or something. I saw the youtube videos with her throwing herself at Ashmit, cheap cheap cheap. An Indian gentleman above made a good point though that (at least in recent years, and excluding higher brow dramas) a lot of Pakistani movies and comedy shows have cheap, bawdy humor. Actually, many Pakistanis do condemn these as well, but more for their bad production quality and the crudeness of the actors. But not with the vitriol that they have against Veena Malik.

The difference is that Veena Malik is a Pakistani woman making herself seem in someway sexually accessible to a Hindu Indian man. This is the WRONG reason to criticize her behavior. It has nothing to do with Indianness or Hindu vs. Muslim, but a woman conducting herself badly. It angers me that the reason Pakistanis really give a damn about the situation is solely because she was flirting with a Hindu Indian. She did a heroic thing by yelling at the Maulvi. Who the hell is he to tell her what to do (he hadn’t even seen the show). But, she also told the maulvi, “look at me, I cooked and served everyone.” As in, I am proper, feminine, a good woman! She is not a truly progressive person if that is what she thinks are her salvaging qualities. So I wasn’t happy with everything she said. However, she had MANY valid points, such as those mentioned in the above article about lack of concern about major problems but attacking a woman (soft target) who is sexually transgressive.

Posted by princessa | Report as abusive
 

For all these years/decades, the literate/moderate
“I find educated people to be more bigoted than the illiterate ones.” Posted by KPSingh01

For all these years/decades, literate/moderate Pakistanis smugly looked the other way while the mullah culture was on the rise. While the mullahs openly gave hate speeches & collected money for jihad, these literate/moderate Pakistanis probably thought how can it hurt them? It will hurt the indians, afghans, americans etc but not them. They also might have thought that it will help them wrest away kashmir from India & maybe even break India and avenge 1971. Now, they themselves are being consumed by the beast. As sad & unfortunate as this may be, in a way it’s also peotic justice!

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

I must say I have learned something very important about Pakistan thanks to the detailed postings of Umair.

I used to think Pakistani society was divided into just two groups of people – a “liberal/secular” elite and the vast majority of conservative masses under the sway of the mullahs. (I saw even the military as divided into these two groups).

Now I understand that this was a naive classification. I can now see that the elites are not necessarily the good guys just because they speak English or drink and party in a “modern” way. They’re actually feudal in their elitism, and many of them have no touch with the mass of regular people.

I can also see that not all conservative Muslims are necessarily rabid fundamentalists out to wage jihad at the behest of ranting mullahs. There probably are a fair number of these, but I can now see that there may be a large (probably even a majority) of people who can be considered “conservative but not radicalised”, as our friend Umair describes himself. I would imagine that such people would be devout in religion and patriotic towards their country (such as they know it), but they don’t necessarily harbour aggressive ambitions of conquest or slaughter. They may harbour feelings of their country being wronged and wish for revenge on that account, but it’s not necessarily a feeling of manifest destiny (e.g., “Ghazwa-e-Hind”). They would probably be content to be left alone with dignity and honour, and other people can do business with them provided they are treated with due respect.

If this is indeed the true picture of Pakistani society, then things are not as bad as they seem, and I don’t have a problem with this middle group. This conservative mainstream needs to pull back from the rabid rhetoric of the extreme fringe, and there is an even chance of this happening because the stark prospect of national implosion is staring them in the face. What’s important for us outsiders to understand is that they are the real people of Pakistan, and we shouldn’t be looking to the “liberal/secular” elite to rescue the country. When things get really bad, these elites will probably flee the country to safe havens in Europe and the US where they’re already well-established with extended family.

I can also see why the US presence in the region weakens the independent voice of this group and strengthens the appeal of the extremist fringe.

The many months of engaging on this blog have made some things clearer to me, and I can see the virtue of the perspective that the Pakistanis have expressed.

Obviously, I don’t agree with everything that they’ve said here, but I can see that the picture is nuanced and not as black-and-white as we Indians tend to see it. Thanks, Umair.

Regards,
Ganesh Prasad

Posted by prasadgc | Report as abusive
 

Ganesh: “If this is indeed the true picture of Pakistani society, then things are not as bad as they seem, and I don’t have a problem with this middle group.”

The problem is that this group has no control over anything. The real control lies with their army and there is a danger of that control shifting into the hands of a few extremists elements. The country’s destiny is going to be decided based on who gets to control Pakistan in the near future and beyond. The middle group you have mentioned will remain the same and might fear opposing the gun toting elements. If you look at the story in Kampuchea, it was a small group of the Khmer that over ran the country. They were initially cheered for coming to the rescue against the corrupt politicians. Then came the Khmer rouge in which the middle group there got systematically enslaved. Anyone who lifted their heads to look up were gunned down immediately. It takes only a small pack of wolves to drive hundreds of wildebeest to run helter-skelter.

“This conservative mainstream needs to pull back from the rabid rhetoric of the extreme fringe, and there is an even chance of this happening because the stark prospect of national implosion is staring them in the face.”

They will have to take on the militants head on and that will mean they will have to become militants themselves.
There is no other way to take them on. In the case of a civilian or military government, public can stage protests and riots. Governments are held accountable and there is a point beyond which they cannot go. We just saw in Tunisia what happened. That is something people cannot stage against organized criminals because they are not accountable for any of their actions. Militant groups will wreak havoc among the public to control them and no one will be able to counter them. Even Pakistan’s military and civilian systems seem to be afraid of these militants. They are not making any moves towards the elements in North Waziristan mainly because of the retaliation that they would face. They are not moving there because India would gain. That is the excuse they are using to dodge the confrontation. When that is the case, imagine the state of the middle group.

“What’s important for us outsiders to understand is that they are the real people of Pakistan, and we shouldn’t be looking to the “liberal/secular” elite to rescue the country. When things get really bad, these elites will probably flee the country to safe havens in Europe and the US where they’re already well-established with extended family.”

The problem is who gets to control Pakistan. Based on the current trends, I see militant groups and radicalized elements gaining control across the country. This middle group will remain mere spectators to this transition of power. Of course the ascendancy of the militants might not bode well for the neighboring nations. Militant groups also fight each other for dominance and in the bargain reduce their ground to rubble. We saw this in Afghanistan where war lords fought each other until the Taliban was sent in. If Pakistan’s economy does not improve and if militants are not reined in soon, their country is going to experience what Afghanistan did after the Soviet withdrawal.

The first thing that would happen is a divide in the military between westernized and radicalized groups. If any attempt is made to contain the radicals, they will try to divide up the military along many lines – ethnic, linguistic or even religious (Shia/Ahmedia/Sufi groups). The ISI is losing control over these elements. The death of Colonel Imam is an indication of this. The monster has grown beyond the puppy stage. It does not sit when told to sit. It is beginning to bite the hand of its master.

I sincerely hope a miracle saves Pakistan. There is nothing else left to stem the trend.

I can also see why the US presence in the region weakens the independent voice of this group and strengthens the appeal of the extremist fringe.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

KP Singh said:

> The first thing that would happen is a divide in the military between westernized and radicalized groups.

This is something I have been anticipating with some dread for a while now. Umair thinks the inherent discipline of the army will stop it from happening. Let’s see.

Regards,
Ganesh Prasad

Posted by prasadgc | Report as abusive
 

Ganesh: “This is something I have been anticipating with some dread for a while now. Umair thinks the inherent discipline of the army will stop it from happening. Let’s see.”

Pak army has been modeled on Western military systems. All their generals, including Kayani, have trained in Western academies. So far so good. Right now my view is that these generals are working a way out of this mess by setting up a deal with the militant groups and focus their aim at the Americans and India and avoid getting bitten by them. So an enemy in the vicinity really helps. The longer America stays in the neighborhood, the more time they can buy. So long as frenzy is directed outward, they get to gain.

If America goes, drones will go too. Once drones go, Pashtun tribals will be back with a vengeance. They do not forgive back stabbers. They know that Pak army protected itself by compromising on the Pashtuns. The Mehsud clan might gain more in this regard. They came very close to Islamabad and only under American pressure did the army go in with a wrist slapping mission in Swat and South Waziristan. Things have gone back to square one there already. Therefore America as the aggressor and enemy is badly needed to keep these elements from biting back at Pakistan.

Then there is always the India card. Kashmir conflict has save Pak army all these years. All they need is a much more carefully planned and co-ordinated Mumbai style attack by their proxy divisions, forcing India to retaliate. They have tried this many times and India has not taken the bait yet. If India takes the bait and retaliates, then Pak army will manage to round up all the elements behind them and focus them outward.

Either of the two scenarios can happen. If the US goes, Pakistan becomes more vulnerable. So to come out of it, a strike against India will become essential. If the US stays longer, the elements will get impatient and turn against their masters big time. That means, Pakistan will spin in a turmoil. By 2012 (This is not some Mayan prediction please :-) ), this place will not be the same as it is now. Pressure is mounting.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

After Leaders and Intellectuals Now Pakistani players are running towards greener pastures.

Kiran unlikely to swim for Pakistan again

http://www.dawn.com/2011/01/25/kiran-unl ikely-to-swim-for-pakistan-again.html

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive
 

Punjabiyaar: “Kiran unlikely to swim for Pakistan again”

One cricket player defected to England during the series against South Africa in Dubai recently. At first it is a trickle. Then it will be a cascade. If talented Pakistanis run to India, we must take them with a warm welcome. They are welcome to live in safety and comfort in India at any time.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

“I must say I have learned something very important about Pakistan thanks to the detailed postings of Umair.”

I have also learned something about Pakistanis from Umair: That they are willing to thrash their civilian leaders black & blue, every chance they can get & they won’t mind if Indians & others do it as well. Just don’t utter one word against their army or generals. I’m surprised how much brain-washed these folks are, by the PA’s propoganda machinery. It’s quite clear to outsiders that most of Pakistan’s current problems can be largely attributed to the short-sightedness & greed of their generals & the collosal blunders made by them but astonishingly, even educated Pakistanis like Umair seem oblivious to this fact.

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

A masterpiece by none another that Mr. Nadeem F Pracha

http://blog.dawn.com/2011/01/26/dr-q-t-k han%E2%80%99s-concise-history-of-pakista n-ii/

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive
 

One cricket player defected to England during the series against South Africa in Dubai recently. At first it is a trickle. Then it will be a cascade. If talented Pakistanis run to India, we must take them with a warm welcome. They are welcome to live in safety and comfort in India at any time.

Posted by KPSingh01

I know Players of underpaid games (read all games minus cricket) from south Asian countries used to vanish in developed countries during foreign tours till very recent, but it makes perfect sense, a player can make more money living and working illegally in a developed country than he/she will ever make by playing just the game, Even Olympic medal winners complain about low compensation in India. But when a Cricketer of Pakistan team is missing then its definitely something wrong, its not just money.

Personally I would love to watch Pakistani cricketers playing for India, they got some real talent. Pakistani fellows its just a wild wish don’t take it as Pak thrashing. This is not Indian agenda not in 1000 years and I am not representing India here.

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive
 

> If talented Pakistanis run to India, we must take them with a warm welcome.

I suspect this will be problematic in practice. They can x-ray baggage to ensure no AK-47s are being smuggled in, but they can’t x-ray minds. As we know, it takes just a few bad apples to ruin the barrel. If one terrorist slips in as an asylum seeker, that will put a stop to the whole process for all the bona fide ones.

Regards,
Ganesh Prasad

Posted by prasadgc | Report as abusive
 

“A masterpiece by none another that Mr. Nadeem F Pracha”

I’ve been following his works for about a year now, the guy is a darn good satirical writer. I don’t know what kind of following he has among Pakistani youth but I’m sure it’s nothing compared to the likes of Zaid Hamid etc. He’s probably admired by more Indians that Pakistanis.

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

@Wise Indian Bloggers
let me summarise the story of people not only in Pakistan but also in India and rest of the world. People are created with the capacity of being good and bad. And when the bad or evil has the upper hand, their leaders exploit the bad in the people and when the good has the upper hand, their leaders try to bring out the best out of the same people. Like we say here, one should clean first in front of one’s own house before critising others. Believe you me, India has more worms looming around in their house than you believe. I say this as an observer from outside your world with a bird’s eye view and humility and not with bad intention. Good luck with your campaign against many in Pakistan, it is not going to make any difference. Gw from your crowd is the only one I found sincerely going more than 90 percent for peace with the neighbouring Pakistan! You have just begun this process? God luck.

Rex Minor

Posted by pakistan | Report as abusive
 

Rex Minor said:

> Believe you me, India has more worms looming around in their house than you believe. I say this as an observer from outside your world with a bird’s eye view

I believe you have unintentionally made the point – if you look at a house with a bird’s eye view, you will see only worms.

I don’t recall you making a single positive remark about India in so many months of discussion. I therefore accuse you of bias and prejudice. Can you go back and dig up a couple of your statements to disprove me?

Regards,
Ganesh Prasad

Posted by prasadgc | Report as abusive
 

Rex says: “peace with the neighbouring Pakistan”

India is not giving up into blackmail demands of Pakistan so India does not want peace. Afghanistan is not giving in to US blackmail demands so they are the holy pashtun warriors. And then he claims he does not maintain double standards. Laughable!!

Rex says: “Good luck with your campaign against many in Pakistan”

I was kind of waiting for this sick comment from someone from Pakistan or their well wishers. How come Veena is not yet termed as a RAW agent?? Pashtunistan (read Taliban) is best becoz it has absolutely NOT given its people any good life, Pakistan is good becoz it has deviated a little bit from Islam the greatest faith and India is worst becoz at least half of its population sleep at night with food in stomach but it does not hail (impose) Islam.

Good luck to you guys with Islam (or rather defaming of Islam). Live a bad life now so as to get goodies after death (Rex’s words not mine). Does the commandments order that??

Posted by 777xxx777 | Report as abusive
 

Believe you me, India has more worms looming around in their house than you believe. I say this as an observer from outside your world with a bird’s eye view

Rex Minor said:

India has definitely its share of problems, no Indian here is sensitive towards it. But India is working on it, the pace is debatable though but things are improving in general, One example is Mumbai attacks where Indians show patience and restraint, no riots were reported in any part of India. Another example is after Babri Masjid court decision nothing happened and everybody but the parties involved were happy with the decision.

Its time for to blink a couple of times and focus the eagle eye towards Pakistan, when did you last time hear a GOOD NEWS from Pakistan ??

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive
 

@”Believe you me, India has more worms looming around in their house than you believe. I say this as an observer from outside your world with a bird’s eye view”
Posted by pakistan

Really??? Kindly use your super bird’s vision & give us their locations because we’d like to get them exterminated!

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

Pre 9/11 I seem to remember it was the Pakistani cricket team that mostly made the news.
Pakistan’s movement towards fundamentalism just happens to coincide with the US invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan.
Who could ever have predicted that killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians of a particular religious persuasion, and writing them off as collateral damage, would push the survivors of that religion to unite and move towards extremism?
Oh yeah, pretty much anyone who gave it more than 2 minutes thought.

Posted by RandomName2nd | Report as abusive
 

@777
You are out of date. muslim women are gaining recognition of their rights! It would seem that they have taken over the suicide wing of the Palestinians and the chechenyans? I guess the Oashtoons would not allow them, but I guess that the kashmiri women might follow this route? I pray not!! We have had enough of women politicians, remember Indira Gandhi from the Nehru family, and Margret Thatcher, who went for the kill in Argentinian waters and not to forget the flamboyant Benazir Bhutto?

Let us hope that they stay out of the men’s world for the present. People desire peace, not war?

Rex Minor

Posted by pakistan | Report as abusive
 

@777
It is not bad if one visits every now and then a Phsycologist when tension is too strong. This is betterthan making sick comments! In the USA the new health Insurance scheme covers this check without any cost for the patient.

Rex minor

Posted by pakistan | Report as abusive
 

@GPrasad
You are damn right!I do not have to recheck my post or justify it. I have no laurals for India, a democracy which uses military no different than Pakistan and Egypt. This is not Gandhi India but more or less Indira Gandhi India! Wait till the tide reaches the shores of India, it has just started. Good for you being in the Kangaroo land!

Rex Minor

Posted by pakistan | Report as abusive
 

Do spare a thought for the common housewife in Pakistan and her bravery too.
Rising prices, law and order situation, corruption and no end in sight yet she toils

Auroch
http://www.pkr101.blogspot.com

Posted by Auroch78 | Report as abusive
 

I am a Muslim and I am ashamed with religious leaders in Pakistan. They have took religion as hostage for there own benefit. These clowns know for a fact that Islam never preaches hate and oppression. Woman are treated in Pakistan and other middle eastern countries because of CULTURE and TRADITION and not because of RELIGION. The Mufti shown on TV is nothing but a loser who scamming people.

Posted by 777-88-777 | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan”muslim women are gaining recognition of their rights! It would seem that they have taken over the suicide wing of the Palestinians and the chechenyans? I guess the Oashtoons would not allow them, but I guess that the kashmiri women might follow this route? I pray not!!”

So becoming a suicide bomber is a promotion and gaining rights! Is this the kind of right that makes you happy? How many of you are like this? I pray that the Europeans and Russians do not start another holocaust against Muslims. These people are not all that nice in reality. They retaliate with arms unlike the Indians who talk and talk. They are violent people if pushed to the corner.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

@”muslim women are gaining recognition of their rights! It would seem that they have taken over the suicide wing of the Palestinians and the chechenyans?” Posted by pakistan

This shows what kind of a twisted mullah mentality, you have. You take pride in the fact that women are given the right to blow themselves up (provided they take others down with them)!

“I shall watch with eagerness how India is going to withstand the tide when it reaches its shores?”

Untill then, you can mull over the fact that 16 of the top 20 failed states in the world, are Islamic paradises. If the arabs weren’t lucky enough to have oil, they would have made the other 4 spots.

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

Haha “You are out of date. muslim women are gaining recognition of their rights! It would seem that they have taken over the suicide wing of the Palestinians and the chechenyans? I guess the Oashtoons would not allow them, but I guess that the kashmiri women might follow this route?”

Kashmiri women might follow suicide route ??

What is the promise with Muuslim women walking towards Jihad ?

72 Studs ?

Posted by punjabiyaar | Report as abusive
 

@Rex

“You are out of date. muslim women are gaining recognition of their rights! It would seem that they have taken over the suicide wing of the Palestinians and the chechenyans? I guess the Oashtoons would not allow them, but I guess that the kashmiri women might follow this route? I pray not!!”
***Did you not say in one of your earlier posts that Kashmiris are non-violent people? where did this come from now? I agree with your previous post not this analysis.

Now, do not call me “devil’s advocate”. That it is rude does not make a difference to me. It is getting boring now.

Posted by rehmat | Report as abusive
 

@Rex
“It is not bad if one visits every now and then a Phsycologist when tension is too strong. This is betterthan making sick comments! In the USA the new health Insurance scheme covers this check without any cost for the patient”

Yeah right I agree, so go ahead and avail the facility, you badly need it. Good Luck…not to you but to Germany that is bearing your burden.

Posted by 777xxx777 | Report as abusive
 

Looking at the history of Europe even a small number of Rex Minors can lead to a mass murder of innocent muslims in Europe or that has been European history. Either muslim community (or rather every community) has to flush out such fanatics from society or the racist Europe will slaughter innocent muslims like lambs. I remember some 4-5 years back, someone from EUC recommending to blanket ban the ‘Islamic’ immigration into EU. Although recommendation got bogged down but that is a very worrying trend.

Posted by 777xxx777 | Report as abusive
 

I am watching the Jasmine revolution in North Africa. Tunisia has been a very progressive nation under the dictator who war ousted. Their women have equal rights and were instrumental in throwing the dictator out. Now Islamists are returning. This is a concern for women and progressive people in Tunisia. The Islamists will walk in there and start gaining control quickly, much like what happened in Iran in 1979.

Egypt is being influenced by Tunisia. Americans are really nervous and worried about the changes happening there. I am seeing discussions on TV about what would happen to Israel if radicals gain in Egypt by using the public unrest. The US unfortunately has relied on dictators to keep its global missions accomplished. However, that has alienated the local people against the US for supporting brutal dictators in their countries. If Egypt is taken over by Islamists, the tide will be difficult to turn. Al Qaeda can whip up riots in Saudi Arabia and Iraq and throw out their governments and get radicals to the seats of power.

Iran is very close to demonstrating its nukes. Pakistan is boiling. Hezbollah has gained complete control of Lebanon.

All these events do not bode well for the world. If the radicals capitalize on public unrest and gain room, they definitely can inflict serious damage to the US and its allies. I don’t think they can form a united front. But they will target Israel first.

We are about to enter a very difficult time period in world history. A bloody war is what it will take to cleanse the world of radicalism. Much like the rise of the Nazis and their defeat by means of a world war, radicalism in the Muslim world will need to be cleansed by another bloody war. We all need to brace ourselves for it. Rex Minors are gaining momentum.

The first thing that will happen will be bold attacks on innocents by suicide bombers and Mumbai style attackers in many parts of Europe. The goal would be to push the Europeans to commit a holocaust against the general Muslims and create the alienation between Muslims and others. European cultures are not benign. They talk of rights, justice, equality etc only when the going is good. They themselves are beginning to hurt on the economic front. Many countries are facing near bankruptcy. This is ideal condition for a turmoil. And frustration will be enhanced by Jihadists to fuel the war against Islam. They know that no one has the money to launch a major offensive. They will go for the world’s oil resources and try to control them.

Things do not appear optimistic. We all (including all moderate Muslims) must be worried to see the developments. Connect the dots and get an overall picture. Do not look at it from just a local context.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

Mr KP Singh,

I have been a silent reader of this blog for a while. I am from Pakistan. But I have settled abroad. I do not agree with your pessimistic view of the Islamic world. You are painting a picture where Muslims seem to be working towards creating a global war against others who seem to be civilized, modern and have to be saved against the savages.

Pakistan is a huge country. It may not be as big as India or China. But it is big enough to withstand crises. Pakistan does have a lot of talented people who can help turn the country around. Right now Pakistan is not the only country suffering from internal turmoil. There are many countries going through similar crises – Most of them are against rulers who have held on to power for too long without doing anything for the people. There is a surge in youth population and employment opportunities are very limited. Prices have sky rocketed. These are not religious issues. They are day to day common man issues. It can happen in India too.

Not many Pakistanis write here. Indians should try to understand ordinary Pakistan’s issues and be sympathetic. Wishing for the country to splinter up will offer no benefit to anyone including India. Please do not even wish that Pakistan should break up on its own. It won’t do any good to anyone. It will make things worse. Who gets affected by all this? Ordinary people.

Economy is a fragile entity. It can fall at anytime based on many factors. A failure in rain fall, disease, calamities etc can completely overturn a country’s economy. The US was hit by a huge economic crisis in 2008. They could have gone under easily. Europe is struggling with many countries on the verge of bankruptcy. No one can take things for granted. That includes you Indians as well. All this feel good attitude in relation to Pakistan’s misery will not help you in the long run. You are not there yet and there is no guarantee that it will stay that way for long for you.

I do not support the views of people like Rex Minor and even my compatriot Mr. Umair. But then these are individual opinions. They do not represent the views of all Pakistanis, just like yours do not represent all of India. Let us not get carried away by emotional charge. Let the discussions be decent and create goodwill and better understanding.

Thanks you.

Posted by NoorMahmood | Report as abusive
 

@Rehmat
Egyptians are the softest among arabs! They are on the move now, I pray that Kashmiris do not follow their example! You have not got the faintest idea about muslim women!
I did not mean to be rude. It is really getting boring.

Rex Minor

Posted by pakistan | Report as abusive
 

If Kashmiris stage a statewide protest like Egyptians are doing, we will have to honor their demands. There is no choice. So long as it is non-violent and is a demand for rights, it should be honored. It is people’s voice and no democratic system should deny them what they want. I am all for supporting people’s honest appeals. I am only against staging these kinds of marches with insurgency as a backdrop. I am not worried if Kashmiri Muslims want to go on their own by staging peaceful and non-violent march, like they are doing in Egypt. We all respect people’s voice. But we will need to pay heed to the voices of Buddhists and Hindu Pundits there at the same time.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

Noor Mahmood,

Thanks very much for writing. We need to hear the views of more Pakistanis to get a rich cross-section of views.

Speaking for myself (and I am sure for many other Indians), I do sympathise with the common man in Pakistan, and recognise that the issues facing ordinary people are the same the world over. For example, I have donated (more than once) to Oxfam for flood relief.

I believe that the events of November 2008 (the Mumbai attacks) have unfortunately traumatised countless numbers of Indians and hardened attitudes against Pakistan. It has been an event that changed things forever for so many people. It’s unfortunate that a few people can succeed in creating such strong negative emotions that are not justified when taking the mass of ordinary people into account.

Umair is right that trust takes a long time to build but it can be destroyed by events over a very short timeframe.

We should try in this forum to understand the views of other people, and I hope we do travel some distance in achieving that.

I would once again encourage you to contribute more regularly. It would help us all by interacting with you too.

Regards,
Ganesh Prasad

Posted by prasadgc | Report as abusive
 

@NoorMahmood
“They are day to day common man issues. It can happen in India too.”

It is already happening in India. Yes the trouble has reached Indian shores. But unlike Pakistan it is not wrapped in religion or caste but plain and straight economics. Indians have been traditionally very good in trade and commerce and are happy to forget the past and move forward provided there are appropriate, favorable and progressive economic conditions for ALL. Thats not the case right now and hence unrest in several parts of India. But definitely its not religion; it never was!

@KP
I would agree with Umair that you should not talk of splintering Pakistan all the time. Thats a short sighted policy similar to US whom you condemn so much. You are bound to get back emotional answers for telling someone that his country will be split. I am with Umair on this one. Idea of Pakistan should stay BUT not due to nukes.

@Umair, you listening, NOT with nukes. If Pakistan lives off nukes then you are not letting anyone make a progress. You have nukes and safeguarded your country thats good. Why keep boasting of it. Let someone try to splinter your country and then show them nuke power…why have so much obsession with them?

@Rex
Had kashmiris really wanted any kind of independence they would have staged far more peaceful protests and would not have harbored people like Geelani amongst them who just want to incite people and make martyrdoms out of those innocents so as to make political gains against Indian central government. For someone sitting outside it is very easy to make foolish comments. Visit Kashmir sometime (instead of using your gut and stomach) and then we can discuss what kashmiris want.

Posted by 777xxx777 | Report as abusive
 

@KP
They did indeed! Time has moved on, too late for peaceful marches. If I have learned from your fellow citizens post is that kashmiri rebels have been receiving training in Pakistan, and the attack on Indian city of commerce, was supported by Pakistan ISI oufit. If this is true then these guys are not going to like their compatriots kashmiris to go on a peace march after sixty years. Too bad once again your community is going to face violence. Good luck, 2011 has just commenced!

Rex Minor

Posted by pakistan | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan: “Time has moved on, too late for peaceful marches. If I have learned from your fellow citizens post is that kashmiri rebels have been receiving training in Pakistan, and the attack on Indian city of commerce, was supported by Pakistan ISI oufit. If this is true then these guys are not going to like their compatriots kashmiris to go on a peace march after sixty years. Too bad once again your community is going to face violence. Good luck, 2011 has just commenced!”

You are still in 1989. You need to come to 2011. You seem to be behind in time. Your mentality itself reflects that perception. Kashmiris have realized that insurgency does not pay. For almost fifteen years, Pakistan sponsored militants into Kashmir and bled itself dry. Kashmiri youth have gone to stone pelting. Now there is only one thing left – trying Gandhian method. You never know, Gandhi’s method is very powerful. It puts unarmed public in front of weapon wielding policemen. The police cannot do anything when the non-violent protester does not give up, filling up jails. If Kashmiri Muslims need their independence, that is the only method that might work with India. Violent methods have been tried and it made Indian grip even tighter. Of course, Muslim kashmiris have been fed on the diet of might being the right, with support for violent ways by Pakistan. So the chances of non-violelnt methods are small. And if any moderate Kashmiri leader tries that, your Mujahideen are there to silence them.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan is at it again in 2011…

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ar ticle1145298.ece

I just dont understand that how with such acts can these Pakistanis expect India to cut down on military presence in Kashmir.

Posted by 777xxx777 | Report as abusive
 

@NoorMahmood,
“All this feel good attitude in relation to Pakistan’s misery will not help you in the long run.”

I very much appreciate your efforts to maintain civility in this discussion.

Having said that, available evidence suggests your statement above is not true. Weakening of Pakistan internally , weakening of Pakistan diplomatically and economically while India getting stronger has been very helpful from the Indian perspective. It may not be nice or friendly to say this, but this is the reality.

25+ years of Pakistan sponsored terrorism inside India pak “liberals” were having fun. After the attack on Indian parliament, hijacking of Indian Airlines flight, pak sponsored transistor bombs exploding in Delhi buses, etc pak response used to be “he he..you can not retaliate”….

It is like watching a Bollywood flick, the villain is paying the price….naturally there is a sense of relief.

Posted by netizen | Report as abusive
 

Frequently paks comment that Indians are “obsessed” about Pakistan. There are 6 Indians for every single pak in this world, some of us are interested in Indo-Pak conflict and comment on this.

For 63 years “Pakistan” has existed only as militaristic, terrorist sponsoring enterprise indulging in nefarious activities. Before India started supporting Mukti Bahini, Pakistan had launced 2 wars against India, and was heavily financing insurgent/ separatist groups from East Pakistan before 1971.

Both acquiring and holding on to Kashmir have been due to Indian perspective that a muslim majority state will solidify India’s secular identity..a point repeatedly pleaded by Indian muslim leaders past 63 years…..Never seen any recognition of this from pak “liberals” even in anonymous blogs…

North Koreanization of Pakistan is unfolding …Pakistan has no use for rest of the world except through negative leverage as a source of terrorism, and holding the west hostage in Afghan quagmire.

At the same time, Indians should not get carried away and imagine that paks do not have the desire or capability to launch some other Mumbai style terrorist attack in India.

Posted by netizen | Report as abusive
 

777xxx777: “I just dont understand that how with such acts can these Pakistanis expect India to cut down on military presence in Kashmir.”

The plan would have been to leave the bodies somewhere and spread rumors about Indian security forces dragging them for interrogation and killing them. Followed by that will be rumors spread far and wide causing agitations and riots. Looks like some elements do not want peace in the region at any cost.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

@KP
So in your view, no chance for Kashmiris to escape from the Indian military? And you recommend the myth of Gandhian method?

Million of years ago there was no Kashmir or the himalayas, but an ocean. The Indian sub-continent was also not there either. let us see if in 2011 the earth is going to move or the Kashmiris are going to move the intruders out of their land? It is avery long year! Your friend netizen did make some good analysis.

rex Minor

Posted by fibs | Report as abusive
 

@Rex
“Egyptians are the softest among arabs! They are on the move now, I pray that Kashmiris do not follow their example! You have not got the faintest idea about muslim women!
I did not mean to be rude. It is really getting boring.”

***Example of Egypt is not a bad one actually. One of the rare from you. That is applicable to all Kashmiris, however.

Here is the problem about “your idea” of “Muslim women”. Which Muslim women are you talking about: Kashmiri, Saudi, Pushtoon or Bengali? Have we not learned so far that it is hard to generalize given the diverse cultural flavors of Muslims across the globe?

What you are talking about as “muslim women” is is a gender issue, not religion-specific.

Sherry Rehman and Veena Malik case is a gender issue as an example, nothing to do with their religions.

PS:
“I did not mean to be rude. It is really getting boring.”
*** On a lighter note, I always mistype your name as Rx before I correct it. I don’t know why. ;-)

Posted by rehmat | Report as abusive
 

“NoorMahmood

“Indians should try to understand ordinary Pakistan’s issues and be sympathetic. Wishing for the country to splinter up will offer no benefit to anyone including India. Please do not even wish that Pakistan should break up on its own. It won’t do any good to anyone. It will make things worse. Who gets affected by all this? Ordinary people.”

***I agree about your opinion about splintering up of Pakistan. So do many Indians, more than some Pakistanis believe. Most Indians actually do not even think about it. This is just individual opinion but at policy level, India in its own interests will not do it and cannot do splintering etc. This has been stated by PM of India several times that Pakistan’s stability is in India’s interest. For the sake of argument even if India has any such intentions, it cannot do it in post-Nuke era. I have said stressed this to my dear friend Umair several times. Recently Chinese news offered a similar splintering up of India in Chinese interests. All these talks are talks or psychological warfare in the backdrop of past successes (India in 1971 and China in 1962 although China did not split India). I do not foresee Chinese walking across the border and doing stuff in pre-Nuke old way. Same is true for India in the case of Pakistan. Times have changed but we seemed to be stuck in the past.

@”Indians should try to understand ordinary Pakistan’s issues and be sympathetic.”
*** I would extend this to all over the place and everyone should do that, including Pakistanis. If we can not feel for a human just because we do not have a personal connection, we have some problem. In India, in my rough guess, there are people who feel relief that Pakistan is getting its own medicine. It is more of a human behavior than anything else. Others have totally opposite views.

Let us take the positives too. Indians have donated for flood crisis and that perhaps includes some of the Indian posters here too.

From Indian perspective one thing that emerged after Mumbai 2008 attack, and angers Indians in general, is that Pakistanis did not condemn the act with the intensity a normal peaceful compassionate human should do. There was a denial by masses in Pakistan that it could even be done by Pakistan-based terrorists. Let me add here that among those who noticed this trend were compassionate Pakistanis who clearly have no love for AK-47-wielding human out to kill another one. Several years, later despite evidence and admission by Pakistan govt, those people have become muted in their theories but do not condemn that act.

It always amazes me how people suffering from terrorism cannot recognize the pain of another one. We have all kinds of “ifs and buts” to it.

Posted by rehmat | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan: “So in your view, no chance for Kashmiris to escape from the Indian military? And you recommend the myth of Gandhian method?”

If Kashmiris bank of insurgents and helpers from Pakistan, they will face the Indian military. If they genuinely stood up on their own, I will honor their demand. I may not like to let people go based on religion, but then that is only an opinion. People’s voice must be respected. They make the choice and they pay for whatever consequences that can arise due to emotional decisions. Kashmir’s independence is only the first step in Pakistan’s agenda. Once they make sure India is out of there, they will not care a rats rear end and infiltrate the place with their non-state actors. At least one can throw stones at a military. Who can take the aim at militants? The goal from Pakistani side would be to eliminate anyone who desires free Kashmir and their leaders brutally and bring everyone under the merge-with-Pakistan umbrella. And anti-India venom will be injected copiously to push the population in that direction. Then they can declare openly about people’s choice and will for merging with the nation only Allama Iqbal could dream of. If Kashmiris rebel, RAW will be blamed for training them and creating chaos inside the Islamic paradise. Or to keep the people engaged, the next Jihad will be launched inside India, probably in Punjab and other neighboring states. Missiles will move close to New Delhi. I can see the whole thing coming. That is why I pray that Kashmiris do not lose their minds and commit the next big blunder. But if they still follow Gandhian method, there will be no choice but to give in to their demands and pray for the best.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

@KP
Poor kashmiris! On a serious note, have you ever considered writing a book?

Rex Minor

Posted by pakistan | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan: “Poor kashmiris!”

Now you understand. That’s good. They will be crushed by the waiting Pakistan if they decide to go on their own.

“On a serious note, have you ever considered writing a book?”

Yep. I am going to write a comedy book with you as the main character in it. am still deciding on the title.

Rex Minor

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

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