China-Pakistan-Afghanistan-building economic ties

April 28, 2011

During a visit to Beijing in late 2009, President Barack Obama asked China to help stabilise Pakistan and Afghanistan. The logic was obvious. China is a long-standing ally of Pakistan with growing investments there and in Afghanistan; it has the money to pay for the economic development and trade both countries need; and with its own worries about its Uighur minority, it is suspicious of militant Islamists.  The challenge was in achieving this without angering India, which fought a border war with China in 1962 and is wary of its alliance with Pakistan.

A year-and-a-half on, efforts to forge that economic cooperation between China, Pakistan and Afghanistan are in full swing – though perhaps not entirely in the way Obama envisaged. The Wall Street quoted Afghan officials as saying that Pakistan was lobbying Afghanistan’s president against building a long-term strategic partnership with the United States, urging him instead to look to Pakistan and China for help.

“The pitch was made at an April 16 meeting in Kabul by Pakistani Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani, who bluntly told Afghan President Hamid Karzai that the Americans had failed them both, according to Afghans familiar with the meeting,” the newspaper said. “Mr. Karzai should forget about allowing a long-term U.S. military presence in his country, Mr. Gilani said, according to the Afghans. Pakistan’s bid to cut the U.S. out of Afghanistan’s future is the clearest sign to date that, as the nearly 10-year war’s endgame begins, tensions between Washington and Islamabad threaten to scuttle America’s prospects of ending the conflict on its own terms.”

The Pakistan government has denied it made this suggestion, as did a spokesman for Karzai quoted by the newspaper.  Neither country is in a position to turn its back on the United States, still the world’s pre-eminent military and economic power. But there is at least a kernel of truth in there, buried under a lot of spin which the Wall Street Journal itself said was probably an attempt by Afghan officials to influence talks on the relationship between the United States and Afghanistan after U.S. combat troops withdraw in 2014.

Indeed a lot of what is included in the Wall Street Journal story has been said in public by Pakistan itself, albeit without the same spin. 

 Pakistan Prime Minister Gilani told a news conference in Kabul that he and Karzai had agreed there was no military solution for Afghanistan. And they had agreed to work together to build economic and trade ties to seek stability through economic development.

“It has become imperative that we join our efforts and take ownership of our affairs so that we can overcome the pressing challenges. We believe that given the enormous resources – both human and natural – of our two countries, our collective economic potential is phenomenal,” he said.

“We have, today, agreed to give high priority and to work together the development track. This means optimally utilizing our natural economic complementarities and that of the region as a whole, for socio-economic development and prosperity. Several important mega projects, including trans-regional projects, such as the Turkmenistan-Afghanistan-Pakistan-India Gas Pipeline; building of electricity transmission lines; enhancing physical connectivity by building or upgrading requisite infrastructure, including road and rail transportation and communication links as well as expediting the implementation mechanisms for the Afghanistan-Pakistan Transit Trade Agreement etc. need to be fast-tracked.”

Any talk of building up trade, oil pipelines and roads, at least from a Pakistan point of view, invariably involves China with its large and growing market. China has several thousand labourers in Pakistan working on infrastructure and building, repairing or expanding roads, which would open up trade routes and also link up with Pakistan’s Arabian Sea port of Gwadar, giving it access to Gulf oil supplies.

Pakistan, meanwhile, has always said it regards China as an “all weather” friend. Its top officials, including Pakistan Army chief General Ashfaq Pervez Kayani, have visited Beijing regularly.  (the Foreign Secretary will be Beijing for talks on April 28-29). And it has never made any secret of its concern that the United States, which abandoned the region after the Soviet Union left Afghanistan in 1989, might do so again. That concern is growing as the United States becomes mired in the Middle East and faces mounting economic difficulties, exacerbated by rising oil prices.

So logically, it would make sense for Pakistan to forge economic partnerships with Afghanistan and China. The question is whether this automatically means a loss for the United States. Arguably, better economic conditions would make it easier to stabilise Afghanistan while also providing jobs to Afghan and Pakistani youths who might otherwise be drawn into Islamist militancy.

Indeed there is even a certain amount of strategic convergence between what Pakistan and the United States say they want in seeking stability in Afghanistan – something of an irony given the current tensions in the U.S.-Pakistan relationship. Washington has been pushing for years for improved relations between Pakistan and Afghanistan, including an increase in transit trade.

In an article at Foreign Policy, Steve Levine argues there would be nothing wrong with China playing a much bigger role in Afghanistan.  ”… China has a record of actually building what it says it’s going to build, and not waiting for bankers to see a dime to be earned on the interest, or necessarily for a civil war to wind down,” he writes.  “Pakistan’s notion of a favorable outcome would be an Afghanistan open to the return of the Taliban. That should not miff the United States, which did not attack Afghanistan to dethrone the Taliban, but al Qaeda.”

“As for China, the only matter about which it’s more obsessive than its political agnosticism in search of resource riches is its obsessive suppression of anything Uighur, the Turkic Muslim people native to Xinjiang Province. Beijing is absolutely certain that Uighurs are intent on destroying Han Chinese dominance in Xinjiang (they are probably right), and have pursued exile Uighurs throughout Central Asia, and into Afghanistan and Pakistan. China has made it a quid pro quo with these neighbors — suppress local Uighurs, and obtain Chinese goodies. Therefore, a strong China would probably not encourage the revival of dangerous local militancy in Afghanistan. That is the paramount American goal — ensuring that a new big terrorist threat doesn’t emerge there.”

The challenge for Washington is not whether a greater Chinese role would be potentially in its interests — after all Obama asked for it – but whether it can actually manage delicate coordination with Beijing while also juggling a highly charged relationship with Pakistan (and worrying about the Middle East and economic problems at home.)

In testimony to a U.S. commission this week, Andrew Small, a China expert at the German Marshall Fund of the United States, argued that Washington is indeed getting a measure of how to manage its relationship with China – albeit with many caveats.

“China’s ‘assertiveness’ has become the tagline for international anxiety about Chinese foreign policy behavior, but it is not assertiveness per se that is the
real concern. After all, the United States and other countries have spent many years encouraging China to take a more active leadership role on the
international stage. The disquiet has rather resulted from Beijing’s narrow, nationalistic conception of interests,” he said.

“The upside is that after some initial missteps, the U.S. policy response has been increasingly effective, both regionally and globally, and China has had to
recalibrate its approach accordingly. Moreover, in concert with its friends and allies, the United States has the means to ensure that an unconstructive
approach remains costly for Beijing to pursue. The open question, however, is whether the Chinese leadership is willing, or even fully able, to go through a deeper process of revisiting its strategy as a result. If not, competition and confrontation are likely to become ever more central features in U.S.-China relations, and in Asia more broadly, in the years to come.”

Meanwhile as far as India is concerned, opinion is divided on whether to fear a rising China or work with it and share in its growing economy and increasing global clout. India has managed to build trade ties with China even without resolving its dispute over the two countries’ long Himalayan border.  Going right back to the time of its first prime minister, Jawaharlal Nehru, it argued for the need for an opening of the ancient trade routes into Central Asia — abruptly shut by the partition of the subcontinent in 1947. 

 This week India is holding its first trade negotiations with Pakistan since the November 2008 attack on Mumbai as part of a gradual thaw in ties between New Delhi and Islamabad. Its prime minister, Manmohan Singh, is firmly in the camp of those who focus on economic development rather than strategic rivalry. That leaves him in tune with the Chinese argument that its greater involvement in the region is potentially a win-win, rather than the zero sum game which tends to dominate thinking on Afghanistan.

And we had an indication this month of how the current Indian government is likely to respond to increasing Chinese involvement in Pakistan and Afghanistan. It was probably quite  significant in showing which way the cards will fall in the debate between strategic rivalry versus economic development. It had to do with building roads, which can either be seen as a military threat (useful for invading armies) or an economic gain (helpful for trade).

A senior Indian commander was quoted by Indian newspapers as saying that the Chinese “are actually stationed and present” on the Line of Control, the ceasefire line dividing the Pakistani and Indian parts of Kashmir. That sort of development would normally set alarm bells ringing so loudly in Delhi that they would explode or short-circuit. Yet the Indian foreign ministry comment on the subject was relatively muted, arguing for vigilance rather than alarm. 

The government, it said, “closely and regularly monitors all developments along our borders, which can have a bearing on our security. We continuously review and take all measures necessary to ensure the safety and security of our people, as well as, territorial integrity of the nation.”  (It is perhaps no coincidence that India’s top diplomat, Foreign Secretary Nirupama Rao, has played a major role in managing peace talks with Pakistan and is also a former ambassador to China.)

As mentioned above, the Chinese are heavily involved in road-building, and the road to Skardu, opposite Kargil on the Line of Control,  is currently being expanded. India is also building roads on its side. And before the Mumbai attacks soured relations, Prime Minister Singh had talked about opening the road between Skardu and Kargil – the scene of a bitter border war fought between India and Pakistan in 1999 – to improve trade routes to Central Asia and China. 

Roads, and even pipelines, are far less likely to gain media attention than spy rows — and the very public spat between Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) agency and the CIA triggered by the arrest in Lahore of CIA contractor Raymond Davis has dominated the narrative for months.  Yet economic development is arguably the one that governments care about — in democracies, it is what helps get them re-elected.  Washington has also repeatedly stressed the need for economic development in both Pakistan and Afghanistan.   Seen through that prism, the talk of increasing economic cooperation between Pakistan, Afghanistan and China looks somewhat different.

And after all, if Pakistan’s prime minister can stand up at a press conference in Kabul and talk about electricity transmission lines, maybe the rest of us should pay attention. In the debate between economic development and strategic rivalry, the former – for now – is winning out.

Comments
 

Bin Laden’s death is a game changer for the war in Af-Pak. Pakistan has a lot of explaining to do, given that Mr. Laden had been living in a mansion adjacent to a military academy & in an area which houses various buildings of the Pakistani army. If there was any doubt about Pakistan shielding terrorists, there’s none now. I also see that the Pakistani army is already trying to spin this the other way, with one of their spokesperson falsely claiming that this was a US-Pakistan joint operation. Pakistan had nothing to do with this operation & as Obama mentioned, Zardari was informed about it after it was completed. It will be interesting to see, how Pakistan is treated from now on.

Finally, as someone who knows quite a few people who lost loved one’s in the twin towers, this certainly brings closure. It’s unnatural to celebrate a death but this just seems right.

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan simply can hand over Al Zawahiri and other Al Qaeda leaders under their protection and be done with it. Musharraf needs to be brought to a US court and sent to prison for cheating, lying, double dealing and costing the US tax payer billions of dollars. Musharraf must have arranged for Bin Laden to escape from Afghanistan and housed him at different places. Bin Laden might have moved into this mansion in 2005 itself according to some radio reports. Does Kayani still have eggs drooping from his face?

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

Here is more salt to rub on Pakistani military establishment:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew s/asia/pakistan/8488236/WikiLeaks-Osama- bin-Laden-protected-by-Pakistani-securit y.html

They just lost their President Mr. Bin Laden. They need to replace him with Al Jawahiri. Or would it be Dawood Ibrahim?

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

And here are the real Pakistanis:

http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/02/hundreds- join-first-pakistan-rally-to-honour-bin- laden.html

What happened to all Pakistanis on this blog? Things have gone dead silent suddenly!

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

KPSingh
Are you feeling lonely without me already?
I told you weeks ago that relationships are shifting and I only watch and observe.
I’m busy getting ready for my vacation leaving next week and will be gone for a month. You can update me when I come back.

Posted by Matrixx | Report as abusive
 

A lot of fingers are being pointed at Pakistan now. In the last few hours, I saw senior US officials, lawmakers & military personnel say that they have no doubt that Pakistan was shielding Bin Laden. Pressure is really going to build on Pakistan from hereon. In many ways, this is the final crossroad for the Pakistani military establishment to choose sides. They simply won’t be allowed to play both sides from now on.

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

They simply won’t be allowed to play both sides from now on.

Posted by Mortal1
=

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-05-02  /pakistan-military-needs-to-explain-on- bin-laden-levin-says.html

Pakistan Military Needs to Explain on Bin Laden, Levin Says
By Laura Litvan – May 2, 2011 11:22 AM CT

Pakistan’s army and intelligence officials must explain whether they knew of Osama bin Laden’s whereabouts before he was killed in a U.S. mission, said Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Carl Levin.

Levin, a Michigan Democrat, said Pakistan President Asif Ali Zardari must question his own military and intelligence officials about whether they knew bin Laden was staying at a fortified villa near Islamabad.

“I hope that he will follow through and ask some very tough questions of his own military and his own intelligence,” Levin said at a news conference with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, a Nevada Democrat. “They’ve got a lot of explaining to do.”

Posted by netizen | Report as abusive
 

Matrixx: “I’m busy getting ready for my vacation leaving next week and will be gone for a month. You can update me when I come back.”

Why? Do you not have access to internet and phone where you are going to hide? Sorry, I mean, “stay”? Just kidding.

Let me know how you ordinary Pakistanis are taking this tragic event in your country. He must be some hero of sorts for many of your people. Umair is already mourning. For all the nuclear capabilities and air defense systems in Pakistan, the US managed to sneak in a couple of helicopters, pay a visit to Bin Laden and leave with his body. And no Pakistani military personnel knew of this? And Zardari had to be interrupted during his night time activity by Obama and informed that Bin Laden unfortunately had to be killed.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

Mortal1: “They simply won’t be allowed to play both sides from now on.”

Pakistani military will not budge. So they will be made to play as two sides against each other. That will be the outcome.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

Now Pakistanis are spinning a new theory: They lured Bin Laden into this compound promising him safety so that Americans could hit him.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew s/asia/pakistan/8488589/Whose-side-was-P akistan-on-in-this-shoot-out.html

If that is true, then they had access to him all along and knew where he was hiding before.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

KP,

With reference to the scenario mentioned in the telegraph article, there’s zero chance that Pakistan lured Bin Laden & handed him to the US on a platter. As numerous reports have confirmed, this was a 100% US operation with the help of US intelligence & the Pakistanis were deliberately kept in dark at every level due to obvious reasons. Pakistani authorities were not informed about the operation until the J-soc team had left Pakistan with Bin Laden’s dead body.
I suspect, we will hear many more such speculative nonsensical theories as the Pakistani propaganda machinery goes to work to clean up the mess that it’s in. But the cat is finally & completely out of the bag. They can’t hide now. In the coming days, you’ll see many more articles such as these:

http://on.msnbc.com/iTf7We

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

Mortal,
Whatever you say.

I predict Myra’s next piece is going to claim without ISI/PA help, Osama could not have been helped.

Umair is (probably) still dazed a little bit, once he recovers, you can expect him to indulge in chest thumping and claim Paks were involved.

Posted by netizen | Report as abusive
 

The disinformation campaign has already been launched by the ISI; see this:

http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/03/%e2%80%a2 helicopter-went-down-during-action-%e2%8 0%a2bin-laden%e2%80%99s-two-wives-childr en-in-custody-was-osama-killed-by-us-tro ops-or-his-own-guard.html

“Was Osama killed by US troops or his own guard?

Reports suggest that Bin Laden was shot dead with a single bullet to his head when he resisted capture, but an official indicated that the 54-year-old mastermind of the biggest and most devastating attack on US soil might have been killed by one of his own guards in line with his will to avert his capture.”

Posted by netizen | Report as abusive
 

“he 54-year-old mastermind of the biggest and most devastating attack on US soil might have been killed by one of his own guards in line with his will to avert his capture.”

The valiant hero was using a woman as his shield as they blew his brains out. The poor woman took the bullets and died in the bargain.

Osama is now the brand name of a famous fish food in the Arabian sea.
I look forward to the day when Al Zawahiri and Mullah Omar also become fish food. And I want to see the egg batter on Pakistani generals’ faces.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

“And I want to see the egg batter on Pakistani generals’ faces”

You won’t see any bigger & stinkier eggs than they currently have on their faces!

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

Wonder, where’s the mouthpiece of the Pakistani army these days! Maybe another trip to Kathmandu to chat up the cabbies there :)

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

I realise I sound like a conspiracy theorist, but the fact that no one has seen the body and they hurriedly buried him at sea sounds very fishy to me (pun not intended).

In a high-profile case like this, wouldn’t they take extra care to establish proof of identity before the world? Why the secrecy?

Regards,
Ganesh Prasad

Posted by prasadgc | Report as abusive
 

I was reading some Pakistani comments on this incident & it’s unbelievable how delusional, Pakistanis have become. Most of them seem to be certain that this is all just a staged drama to defame Pakistan & capture it’s nukes.

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

Ganesh,

I suspect, you will probably see some pictures of the dead body in a day or so. As far as the burial is concerned, various officials have said that the body was dumped in the sea because they did not want a burial site which could become a shrine where terrorists/extremists can rally.

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

I wonder if Pakistani citizens like Umair still think the army is the saviour of the country, or if they finally realise that the army has actually buried the country, one botched operation at a time.

With this latest evidence of treachery exposed, the money will dry up: http://abcn.ws/kLO49J

Regards,
Ganesh Prasad

Posted by prasadgc | Report as abusive
 

It has been two days since Bin Laden was killed. All I see is deafening silence from Pakistanis everywhere. Why are they taking it on themselves? They should realize that they too have the same desires to live well like others. All the blame goes to their military and the ISI. Let those criminals deal with the blame. And even ISI sympathizers are silent. I am yet to see an article on Bin Laden’s assassination from you-know-who, here.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

What will happen if Zardari or Gilani sacks Kayani and Shuja Pasha now? I see this as the only way for Pakistan to rehabilitate itself in the world’s eyes. PakMil must be exposed and put in its place, otherwise the whole country will pay the price for the ill-advised adventurism of a few.

Regards,
Ganesh Prasad

Posted by prasadgc | Report as abusive
 

What will happen if Zardari or Gilani sacks Kayani and Shuja Pasha now?
Regards,
Ganesh Prasad
=

GP,
You have a great sense of humour :-)

Only masters fire servants. You have the relationship mixed up here.

Umair would tell you Zardari is having his job b/o Kayani and should be thankful towards Kayani. Pardon me for speaking on behalf of Umair who is on vacation in Abbotabad.

Posted by netizen | Report as abusive
 

Zardari has already made a statement dictated by Kayani – “Pakistan did not participate in the hunt of Bin Laden.” If there was even an iota of information which said otherwise, one will find Kayani, Zardari and Geelani being flung far and wide in all directions towards the moon.

Right now they are laying low waiting for all noise to die down. Then they will do something to divert the attention away. Most probably they will “sacrifice” Al Zawahiri and hunt him down themselves. Or they will show the CIA where he has been “hiding” and participate in it. This way the Americans will go home happy and give a couple of billions to Kayani to buy his toys. And the whole thing will be diplomatically diffused.

We know how Pakistani system plays its game. They are planning on a diversion tactic as we speak. If they do not, they have a lot of explaining to do. Americans seized a lot of important material from Bin Laden’s hide out and that is going to open up more cans of worms.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

Guys
I would ask everyone to hold their horses for now, ok true it is correct that Obama had long stated that if there is a high value target inside Pakistan, and US has actionable intelligence and PAKMIL is unable or unwilling (keywords UNABLE or UNWILLING) to act then the US will conduct a unilateral action.

There can be two scenarios in my assessment, lets look at them one by one: before that a brief backgrounder under what backdrop this action took place. We know US-Pak relations were on a lowest point. ISI chief Gen. Pasha was at CIA HQ for face to face meetings, in mid-april. Who knows what was the topic of discussions. We also know the US domestic political compulsions, Obama’s ratings needed boost before his relection bid for 2nd term. We know an endgame is playing out in Afghanistan, no one should get excited. Remeber 9-11, days before Ahmed Shah Masud was assassinated mysteriously and we know what happened later. This action could be the calm before the storm, who knows what lies ahead. There can be only two scenarios here

1. This scenario entails US-Pak relations are at a crisis point, deep mistrust. Obama wanted to put even more pressure on Pakistan by conducting a raid on a high value target/ISI asset whatever u call, in the dead of night, in the heart of a military garrison, barely at arms length of Pakistan Military Academy. In this case, it was a tough call and blind shot, it may or may not get a high value target, as PLAN B US would fabricate some photos using sophisticated imaging technology and announce Bin Laden is dead. Who cares? I did not see any photo evidence, a body, a video? And if this is true, next time an American drone enters Pakistan’s airspace I am sure it will certainly be knocked down. In other words PAKMIL will be under clear orders to fcuk US. And Pak-US relations will further spiral downwards, CIA_ISI tussle would continue and this episode will turn out to be just one incident.

2. Scenario 2, US had confirm intelligence, carefully gathered an assault team, someone played their cards really well, picked up $25 million downpayment, gave a go ahead. A US military C-130 and four choppers entered quitely in the dark, was allowed access to Ghazi aviation base nearby, assemble and mount their operation. Pakistan disowns and dooes not take ownership of anything that took place, ISI helps, US NAVY SEALS get their man and leave. Who was the man? actual or not? that is also a question which is murky. Obama announces victory, hails Pakistan intelligence cooperation, asks for future cooperation. ISI addresses a longstanding demand of American counter-terrorism officials and finally delivers AQs no.1 instead of always the no.3 or 4. In return, Pakistan takes centeral role in Post-American Afghanistan. Suddenly also UK foreing office statement says Pakistan will continue to be an important partner in counter-terrorism. There is more to it, dig deeper and look further.

In the above two scenarios there can be any number of possibilities, but my own gut instincts says it is a continuation of dirty spy wars between CIA and ISI.

Peace is what everyone needs, Pakistan is not a threat to anyone, Islam too is a religion of peace. Whether it is a Pakistani taxi driver or American construction worker, everyone desrves to know the truth behind their government’s actions. Unfortunately in these type of situations, truth is the first casualty, in an atmosphere of rumour and guessing, truth is the first casualty. Lets see what we can make out of this?

(just to add few words, how about this, ISI dumped AQ for good made a deal with US on HQN, to give them a more visible role in Afghanistan. Taliban getting a role in post-American Afghanistan?? might possibly handed over OBL, if true Al-Zwahiri might already be on the verge of arrest. Someone is really playing their cards very smartly, and as a Pakistani you would want that to be ISI).

Posted by Umairpk | Report as abusive
 

Umairpk,

I understand that it is deeply embarrassing to you and fellow Pakistanis that Americans got in, took OBL out and went home, while no one in Pakistan’s mighty military system knew or did a thing about it. There are more questions than answers here – not so much towards the Americans, but towards Pakistan.

1. What was OBL doing inside Pakistan?
2. How come he was living in that place for close to 5 years based on what American intelligence is reporting?
3. How come he was inside this million dollar high security building? To everyone it appears as though he was being protected.
4. How come he was living in the middle of a military contonement?
5. ISI is a capable intelligence agency. Though we hate it, it definitely is capable of watching everything, at least inside Pakistan. And they did not know that OBL was inside this building, while the Americans made a better guess? It is a story that is not believable.

Body language is one that I watch. That tells more about the truth than anything stated. Pakistan went silent for at least 48 hours. It looked as though someone was caught in the middle of the act, red handed and did not know how to explain it.

The Americans now have a spy network inside Pakistan that is deep. And they may not need the ISI that much to carry out its tasks. This is the reason for all the recent friction between the CIA and ISI. This is because the Americans have realized that ISI has been double dealing. In fact they have said that they kept Pakistan in the dark during the operation because ISI could tip OBL off about the American raid. And it probably happened on other occasions and other targets as well.
By becoming independent of any reliance on Pakistan, the US now can carry out a lot more lethal missions inside Pakistan.

Americans will not blatantly state anything. But their silence will unnerve the Pakistani system. Pakistani administrators will now have to make guesses a lot more. If the US hits Mullah Omar or Zawahiri inside Pakistan, it would be even more embarrassing. I can tell that the ISI will be shuttling these “assets” into Haqqani land to prevent any further surprises of this kind. But Americans are watching every movement now, both on the ground and from above. You guys might as well pray to them.

I am happy for two things here – OBL was killed and Pakistan’s duplicity has been exposed. The guy was found inside Pakistan, and that too in a military enclave with heavy duty protection. There is no use pretending to be innocent. People are laughing at the excuses that Pakistanis are concocting.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

The world is getting tired of hearing that there might be rogue elements inside the ISI and Pak military that always offset efforts. And lies like the head of the establishment like ISI or military did not know that a mission was carried out by rogue elements and that they are the last ones to know. Denials need to stop. Pakistani system is rotten to the core. What we are hearing in the news are diplomatic statements made by Americans and the British. This means there is a lot more depth to their statements and they cannot make them very public for the obvious reasons. Behind closed doors, they are ready to kick Pakistani leaders in the rear end. It is time Pakistan openly gave up its evil activities. Or they are going to be fed to the fish as well.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

Read this. It is almost like watching a thriller movie.

I am sure one of these days they will make a Hollywood movie out of it (like Blackhawk down):

http://swampland.time.com/2011/05/03/cia -chief-breaks-silence-u-s-ruled-out-invo lving-pakistan-in-bin-laden-raid-early-o n/?hpt=T1

It is very clear what has been going on. Pakistani rumor mills have no validity of their claims. I remember Umair saying earlier that Bin Laden was dead long ago. Now the guy was found living comfortably inside a Pakistani military enclave, close to their military academy. People might be fools. But not that much foolish.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

Umair,

You have mentioned two scenarios above but conveniently forgot to mention the most likely scenario, which the whole world is talking about (except Pakistanis, perhaps).

Here it is: The top brass of your army & ISI were aware of Osama Bin Laden’s whereabouts, at least for the last 6 years (if not more) & they systematically hid him in plain sight in a military cantonment, where he can operate freely & yet be protected without suspicion from CIA & the US authorities. Over the last couple of years or so, the US decided that Pakistan can not be trusted in any way & created their own intelligence network, completely independent of ISI & other Pakistani authorities. They were getting closer on Bin Laden’s trail & this made Pakistani army/ISI very uncomfortable. They started a vicious propaganda campaign in order to thwart US efforts but were largely unsuccessful. Finally, the CIA was able to hunt down Bin Laden & conducted a successful operation deep inside Pakistan to eliminate him, while going to great lengths to keep it a secret from Pakistani officials, military personnel & spies.

Umair, your amy & ISI can spin this thing any way they want to & paint as many fictional scenarios but their duplicity & treachery has been exposed for good.

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

I think what Umair is saying is what the Pak foereign secretary also mentioned yesterday in an interview, “Osama is history, I sincerely request everyone to now look ahead.”

Before him it was Mush in another interview when asked whether he was surprised that OBL was in Attobabad. His answer typicl Mush overspeak, “Well, I wouldn’t like to go into that, because there are many other factors involved, there are hard core militants and terrorists from all over India, Kashmir, Pakistan, Afghanistan etc which are assembling……anyway I think I have already spoken for too long with you, thank you…”

In a nutshell what it really boils down to is that the line is going to be now on -forget what happened and why, thats the difficult part for us to talk about or explain and we probably cannot explain so lets raise dust elsewhere with scenarios 1, 2, 3 4 5….. and filibuster this thing out. No one will get to grips with the one question….how did OBL land up in Abbotabad and make a comfortable home with wives and children for anywhere from a few years to months and weeks?

Posted by DaraIndia | Report as abusive
 

Abbotabad not Attobabad.

Typical not typicl

Posted by DaraIndia | Report as abusive
 

Even Umair has come out of his vacation. Myra is still deeply mourning as a patriotic pakistani.

About Dara’s comments.

In the last about 10 years in the various blogs I have interacted with Paks, I have learnt how paks dismiss terrorism, terrorists.

Why should the world “move on”? The world should not “move on”, but demand answers. If answers are not coming US should cut off the aid. Let’s see if Chinese masters are willing to foot the bill.

Posted by netizen | Report as abusive
 

If you watch Pak media, they quietly avoid talking about what was Bin Laden doing in Abbotabad. They have switched the gear to, “How dare the Americans abuse national sovereignty,” or “It is all American show and tell, no one knows for sure if it was Bin Laden or an American smear campaign against Pakistan to cover for themselves on the home front.” One of the commentators says that Obama has been working on a face saving exit from Afghanistan after a near certain American defeat. So the CIA staged Bin Laden at a suitable spot and Pak military and the ISI were part of the whole thing. This way, Obama can take credit and due to backlash fears, ISI and Pak military would go silent over the whole thing. He says that without Pak military’s permission, no American choppers could have come into Pakistan. And he mentions about the hurry with which Bin Laden’s body was buried in the sea. Basically he says it is all an eye wash that kills many birds with one stone for American politicians. He says Pakistan has been saying Bin Laden was dead long ago.

Pakistanis are world champions in lying and spinning imaginative stories.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

netizen: “Myra is still deeply mourning as a patriotic pakistani.”

I see that too. Usually I have seen on occasions like these, I’d see more than one posting from these esteemed authors. Now all I see is a deafening silence. May be they are working on how to present Pak military’s version of the whole thing. It would be called Pakistani perspective by talking to key personnel in the defense establishment and circles of influential people. Or a new article will appear about Pakistan’s summer harvest. It will be written such that it will make you wonder if yesterday really existed or not. Pinch yourself once :-)

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

CIA “Choreographing” Osama Assassination Hoax

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xC7C322M Rc&feature=share

If anyone thinks this so simple, I would say you are a stupid. And Myra is more intelligent than you idiots, why would she write when the evidence is still emerging, couple of more days after the whole story comes out. And this is already turning out murky. Lots of fingers being raised, questions been asked, so far the evidence is not convincing that Osama was found and killed there. Also US NAVY seals shot him even when he was unarmed, why did they not arrest him alive, remove him extradite to US and put him to trial?

Posted by Umairpk | Report as abusive
 

And Myra is more intelligent than you idiots, why would she write when the evidence is still emerging
Posted by Umairpk
==

Actually Myra is more Pakistani than you :-)

I see a future…and visualize several green color volumes of In Defence of Pakistan- My Motherland, Collected Works of Nishan-e-Pakistan Myra McDonald on the bookshelves of Umair :-)

About “emerging evidence”, please tell us you are feverishly working on cooking up stupid stories, and conspiracy theories. The truth is (once again) you hvae been caught with your pants down.

Posted by netizen | Report as abusive
 

Umair, for the rest for non-Pakistanis, it IS as simple as it seems & there’s more than enough circumstantial evidence to implicate your army, ISI & the Pakistani state. You smart Pakistanis can keep working on your conspiracy theories & fictional evidence.

Just last week, Umair’s man-crush, Kayani, stood a few hundred feet from the most wanted terrorist in the world & gave a speech about how “the Pakistani army had broken the backs of terrorists”. I don’t know whether that’s comical or pure evil.

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

@Umair: So, you believe well known conspiracy theorists like Alex Jones (who no one takes seriously) & Hamid Gul, over your own President, Prime Minister, Foreign Minister, top army officials & ISI officials? All of them have confirmed that OBL is dead.

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

The best thing Pakistan can do now is to hand over the remaining Al Qaeda and Taliban leaders it has been protecting to the US and walk off free. Otherwise they will be looked at as partnering with criminals.

The US is not going to disband Pakistan. It would be a foolish move on their part if they did. It is not easy to build relations once they are broken. They would not want Pakistan to join Iran against them. That is much more important than this war on terror. Losing Pakistan now means China gets the upper hand in the region. So Pakistan is still safe and will not face any wrath from the Americans. Therefore there is enough chance to come clean by surrendering all “assets” and get moving. Economic development should be the goal and military strategies are not the need of the hour.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

What a day it was for us Indians, we were shouting from the roottops that Pakistani state was making America and rest of the world an ass regarding their war on terror.

As KP pointed out, the body language says it all, there is deafeaning silence for last 48 hours and Pakistan is in a horrible scenario caught with its pants down. The place where OBL was hiding was perhaps the most embarassing moments after the 1971 war or is it?

Regularly these establishment officials have made ass out of themselves in kargil, 9/11 , mumbai attacks and now. Now a patriotic pakistani is left with the binary option of either accepting the truth that their state is virtually.. no literally a rogue terrorist state or continue in his delusions that this is again a conspiracy hatched by zionist-crusader-hindoo nexus.

I felt pity for the renowned and seasoned journalists who were at other times best to their arguments looking like fools when they were saying that the Army might not know that OBL was hiding in Army contonement.

If the dead guy was not Osama then why would the Pakistani state not claim otherwise! They should probably given an official statement that it is not osama as proclaimed and refute the american position strongly.

The real sin is not of the callgirls who either out of compulsion or lack of choice or habituated to immoral professions, but the sin is of the Pimps who nurture them,feed them and throw them to the streets to be exploited. Pakistan is such Pimp (sorry for all the harshness but the country gave the world real real pain all these years) which shows unparalleled moral brinkmanship to remain relevant vis-a-vis its arch enemy.

But I fear that for all the incidence of pak’s double game, Pakistan is still indispensasble simply because it has enough leverage through these terrorist groups that any afghan stability will only be chimera without pakistani’s change in strategic locus.
PS: well the Dawood Ibrahim,Hafiz sayeed and Mahmood azhar might be in some military contonment and we dont need to be surprised at that. The day is not far when the extremists are going to rape the core pakistani state (the establishment) just as they are now raping the common man.

Posted by sensiblepatriot | Report as abusive
 

The financier and marketing guy of the pimps is generally a China man. This guy is seen supporting dictatorial regimes or rogue states and performs an awesome magic of vanishing when these states turn democratic (like Libya) or when the Pimps ask them to help them in their war.

Posted by sensiblepatriot | Report as abusive
 

Now Afghanistan is spilling the truth as well.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/05/world/ asia/05afghanistan.html?hpw

They are saying what I have been saying – US has waged a war on the wrong country. The real villain is the country to the East of Afghanistan.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

“They are saying what I have been saying – US has waged a war on the wrong country. The real villain is the country to the East of Afghanistan.”

Afghanistan officials, including Karzai, have been saying this for a really long time. Just as India has been doing the same. Pakistani Generals, with their short sightedness & suicidal ways, are making Indians & Afghans look so good right now.

The US media is really on Pakistan’s case right now. Every time I turn on a news channel, someone or the other is criticizing Pakistan or talking about cutting off aid to it. Surprisingly, I have not seen one Pakistani official yet, except good ole’ Mushy of course, who’s been on every channel to make a case for Pakistan. He actually seems to be doing more damage than damage control.

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

sensiblepatriot wrote:
“Pakistan is such Pimp”

-And that who wrote (sensiblepatriot) is a b@stard Indian pig. shut up and leave Pakistan alone.

Posted by Umairpk | Report as abusive
 
 

“A Defense of Pakistan”

Very shallow article. No matter how much Pakistan can try, it was caught red handed with its pants down. Explanations of all kinds will emerge, of course. At the end of it, Bin Laden has been done away with. We do not know how many Pakistanis idolize him and how many in its military do the same.

Like that author says, calling Pakistani an enemy and going to war with it etc are foolish ideas. Bt Americans are known for doing foolish things – like making an alliance with Pakistan of all countries to fight terrorism, spawned by Pakistan.

Obama is a very intelligent and sensible man. He is trying to wind down the war in Afghanistan. He has already close the mission in Iraq. With Bin Laden’s transformation into fish food, it is only a matter of time before the lesser evil are rounded up and fed to the same fish. Bin Laden’s killing in Pakistan will help exert pressure on Pakistan to give up its assets. Obama is not going to wind down the operation without completing the mission. It is in the interest of Pakistan to give up its terrorist assets and start on a clean slate. There is going to be no more chances to groom the dogs for a future engagement with India. The US will try to weaken Pakistan’s military for sure.

Imagine this – if Pakistanis had no idea Bin Laden was staying in their country close to the capital for five or more years, where is the guarantee that militants are not near their nukes? Will there be another episode of embarrassment and surprise when militants walk in and take away the nukes? Pakistan has completely lost its credibility in the outside world. No one wants to accept any of their claims. All the duplicity is obvious to everyone except Pakistanis. Pride is good. But it should not blind people. Accept that your country has committed its mistakes and has made wrong choice. Excuses will not work.

The US will not punish Pakistan severely. What they have done now is bad enough – exposing their double dealing and duplicitous methods. Pakistan is still needed to complete the rest of the objective. Only it cannot call itself an ally in the forefront in the war on terrorism. Americans have slowly started doing things independently of Pakistan, wherever they can. That is why Pakistan appears very irritated. It has lost all its advantages and leverage in pushing the Afghanistan solution in its favor. Now Americans have a solution for Afghanistan and that involves setting things right in Pakistan. They will. They have a lot of explaining to do at home to their citizens.

All that Pakistanis can do now is to stay quiet and wait for time to settle the dust. Look at Myra and others. They are doing the same thing. Shock has hit Pakistanis and their sympathizers deep and hard. Use this occasion to correct your system and come out of the warped mindset.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 
 

Pakistan reacts angrily to tone of U.S. questions

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapc f/05/04/us.pakistan.relations/index.html  ?hpt=T2

Posted by Umairpk | Report as abusive
 

Just read the defense of Pakistan article. So tell me, if an Indian tourist had rented the same mansion, just for two days, how long would it have been before the ISI unearthed a dreaded and most wanted RAW agent and had him locked up and thrown away the key? My guess is about 45 minutes.

Posted by DaraIndia | Report as abusive
 

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