Comments on: India and Pakistan: moving out of intensive care http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/07/28/india-and-pakistan-moving-out-of-intensive-care/ Perspectives on Pakistan Thu, 01 Oct 2015 19:31:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: kEiThZ http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/07/28/india-and-pakistan-moving-out-of-intensive-care/comment-page-1/#comment-39351 Sat, 13 Aug 2011 21:24:42 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7608#comment-39351 It’s a good start. But I can’t see much concrete action coming any time soon. The PA will always need India as a threat to justify its own existence.

Sure they make some noise now about the economy being the most important challenge. But what happens once the economy stabilizes? Will they be on the India-bashing bandwagon again?

I sincerely wish, every Indian and Pakistani would visit the border areas of EU member states in Europe. There are absolutely no border control. You wouldn’t even know that you’ve crossed over except for a sign that now says you’re in another country (and that too usually a very small road sign). This is significantly more advanced than even the “world’s longest undefended border” (between Canada the USA).

I visited a cousin in Salzburg in Austria. She has colleagues who commute in from Germany. It being mere minutes down the road. They have work lunches in Germany.

Ideally, India and Pakistan could accomplish such a future. The Kashmir dispute would then be irrelevant because in reality the only real impact on Kashmiris in their lives would be which passport they carried and where their federal tax dollars went.

But such peace in South Asia would be an existential threat to the Pakistan Army. How could they justify such a massive standing force and such a huge nuclear arsenal, if India and Pakistan were truly that integrated? With them having such a stake against peace, the million dollar question, is if they really want peace. Or do they just want a pause now that the economy is struggling?

]]>
By: KPSingh01 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/07/28/india-and-pakistan-moving-out-of-intensive-care/comment-page-1/#comment-39314 Fri, 05 Aug 2011 15:27:58 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7608#comment-39314 Women are better diplomats than men. Where there is serious crisis, put women in charge. The better looking they are, the better it gets. Let us men stand aside and let women resolve the issues we have created.

]]>
By: sensiblepatriot http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/07/28/india-and-pakistan-moving-out-of-intensive-care/comment-page-1/#comment-39311 Wed, 03 Aug 2011 15:07:54 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7608#comment-39311 Umair,
I was pleasantly surprised reading your comments. It is indeed futile to continue warring over disputes without pulling enough courage to solve them. It is easy to raise passions but difficult to subside them once they rise to certain threshold levels, beyond which reconciliation seems impossible.
I could tell you two cases how we were successful with neighbours (who are in no way culturally similiar, Bangladesh is similiar but nevertheless unique in itself)

Firstly we realized that, as a powerful neighbour, China weilds enormous influence in its neighbourhood and so India rather than taking a confrontationist attitude, tried to build trade ties inspite of mutual suspicions, its proxy support to pakistan and even inspite of trade heavily in favour of china. Over the years Trade had bloomed to some 70 billion dollars and we were able to pursuade chinese in making their foreign policy look more neutral and balanced regarding India and Pakistan which was completely biased towards pakistan only a decade ago.

Secondly, the case of Bangladesh was even more stark. The millions of illegal Bangladeshi immigrants who infiltrated india is a major national crisis and is almost on the verge of changing the sensitive demographic dynamics of North East. Our relations with BNP (Bangladesh Nationalist Party) were even worse and Khalida Zia seemed to be irreconcilable for Indians. But thankfully when Hasina came to power. Indian foreign policy went into overdrive and pushed a billion dollar credit line to bangladesh which in turn reciprocated by handing over Arabinda Rajkhowa ULFA chairma an insurgent group leader and more arrests were to come.
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ar ticle2319267.ece
In anycase, the relations now seemed to be on a good momentum (and bipartisan in nature) and we seek to resolve the 6.5 mile boundary dispute (this boundary width is neither here nor there. Thousands of Houses can be found on the supposed International boundary!)

Rather than trying to resolve the disputes, we should try to build trust between countries and while India can allow Pakistan’s irrigation experts to India and aliievate any mistrust regarding India damning the waters. Pakistan should atleast handover Indian terrorists (Dawoon Ibrahim) who are cause of mayhem in India. This one step if pakistan takes, will create enoromous trust between nations just as bangladesh had done. we learnt our lessons regarding Bangladesh and China. will you give us the oppurtunity to learn lessons regarding Pakistan by being part of it. what do you say?

]]>
By: Mortal1 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/07/28/india-and-pakistan-moving-out-of-intensive-care/comment-page-1/#comment-39308 Tue, 02 Aug 2011 18:35:46 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7608#comment-39308 I’m starting to believe that the Pakistani army is incapable of dealing with all the terror elements in their country, even if it wants to. They are having a tough time dealing with just the TTP, can you imagine if they have to deal with all of them (TTP, LeT, JeM, JeV etc etc). The beast is completely out of control now & unfortunately, it will consume Pakistan.

]]>
By: KPSingh http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/07/28/india-and-pakistan-moving-out-of-intensive-care/comment-page-1/#comment-39307 Tue, 02 Aug 2011 16:12:15 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7608#comment-39307 Here is a chance for Pakistan to come clean. For its own sake, it must take a deep breath and start cleansing out the militant groups ruthlessly. This includes even the ones who act as proxies for the army in neighboring countries. This method has been tried over two decades and has not made a dent. And it has drained Pakistan from within. This is like breeding a poisonous hydra-headed snake to get at someone. The snake will consume Pakistan. Now the all weather friend China is pointing at the terror groups inside Pakistan. As I see it, the system is losing control over these elements. This is an extremely dangerous development and it will not only hurt Pakistan dearly, but also the whole region. It is time terrorism as an instrument of state policy is given up and a new beginning launched. Time is running out.

]]>
By: prasadgc http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/07/28/india-and-pakistan-moving-out-of-intensive-care/comment-page-1/#comment-39304 Tue, 02 Aug 2011 05:47:32 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7608#comment-39304 Pakistan should be careful not to alienate the only friend it has: http://bit.ly/oCHgVn

From a militant’s point of view, an oppressor of Muslims is an oppressor of Muslims, whether it’s India in Kashmir or China in Xinjiang (East Turkestan). What happened in Kashgar is only logical and to be expected. But how will the ISI explain away the contradiction in state policy and rein in their proxies? One oppressor of Muslims is an enemy and must be bled to death, the other is an all-weather friend who must be supported. Good luck sermonising that message.

And when China loses its patience, Pakistan will see what a dove India has been in the face of repeated provocation.

Regards,
Ganesh Prasad

]]>
By: KPSingh01 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/07/28/india-and-pakistan-moving-out-of-intensive-care/comment-page-1/#comment-39303 Mon, 01 Aug 2011 22:24:32 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7608#comment-39303 As a part of any diplomatic delegation, the groups should include staff from the foreign office, business people and military personnel. The goal should be to go and build bridges and not argue on anything. Solution will come as progress is made. A lot of patience is required. We have waited for sixty odd years. A few more years of concerted effort will bear fruit. If another Mumbai style attack is stage, my personal wish to be open minded and have both Indian and Pakistani joint efforts in crushing militant groups, whether they are of Indian or Pakistani origin. Militants and their supporters in the establishments will try to thwart any progress. It is important to discourage such people with fully warped minds. They cannot be changed. The best course would be to deny them chances to foment trouble and if possible eliminate them. And this effort has to come on its own. I’d like to see trouble makers in Mumbai like the Shiv Sena put behind bars permanently. And I’d like to see groups like LeT etc completely eliminated. This way the people of the two countries will begin to breath easy. We as people know that wars lead to no end. We are all emotional and get carried away by patriotic feelings. But remember that just 6 decades ago we were not divided. We share the same land. We need to look ahead so that our future generations do not end up like us and those before us.

]]>
By: Umairpk http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/07/28/india-and-pakistan-moving-out-of-intensive-care/comment-page-1/#comment-39301 Mon, 01 Aug 2011 13:17:04 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7608#comment-39301 KPSingh

I must say, thank you very much for your last post. I agree word for word, it is probably the best i have read of your comments so far I have been on this blog for 3 years. And that is where we need to read “Flight of the Falcon” by Air commodore Sajjad Haider who saved Lahore in 1965 war by bombing advancing Indian Army formations entering it. This hero of 65/71 wars has written his autobiography and if anyone gets a chance to read, it is a must. Surely, when the Indian side reaches out to Pakistan, things will change. Lets just hope for the best for eveyone. I think India must help Pakistan military to change its strategic calculus. We need an Indian Army delegation visit the defence university in Islamabad and vice versa.

]]>
By: Umairpk http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/07/28/india-and-pakistan-moving-out-of-intensive-care/comment-page-1/#comment-39300 Mon, 01 Aug 2011 13:02:37 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7608#comment-39300 Ganesh:
From the corps commanders conferences repeatedly, the message is Pakistan’s economy is a priority, real strength is economic strength. After nuclear and missile capability, now focus has shifted to eliminate and confront the internal threat. Also, Pakistan is seeking to reduce dependence on US, does not mean break up of relations, though it has pushed Pakistan into seeking even closer ties to China. That again does not mean hostile relations with India automatically, and bear in mind Kashmir is peaceful since 2004. Pakistan military will genuinely seek improved ties with India, that is my understanding. Why? because it is a dynamic institution, where doctrines, strategic thinking, geo-political situation evolves with time. Lets not forget an ISI assessment in recent time that internal millitant threat has surpassed the one posed by India.
KPSingh has a godd suggestion, both ISI and RAW must try to have a working relationship going, and then go for intelligence sharing. Similarly, the two militaries should start engagement. It is doable, it is possible, it is desireable, and soon it will become inevitable. After that cooperation in other fields will follow, a confrontation with India is not in Pakistan’s interest, it is rather unsustainable. And this is well understood, if India continues engagements, and some disputes like Siachin, Run Kutch, water etc get out of the way. Who knows? maybe we see a different and new kind of Indo-Pak relationship, one that mutually benefits each nation. In the end, one has to move on. Take the example of Japanese, they can get hit by a devastating tsunami, and days later get back to their feet defiant in the face of odds.

]]>
By: prasadgc http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/07/28/india-and-pakistan-moving-out-of-intensive-care/comment-page-1/#comment-39299 Mon, 01 Aug 2011 11:23:30 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7608#comment-39299 Umair,

Given your unique position to understand the mindset of the Pakistani military, would you say there has been a change in thinking among military circles about the futility of hostility with India? After all, it does not matter one bit what Zardari, Gilani or Rabbani Khar think. The only thing that matters is what Kayani and the corps commanders think. If that thinking has changed to be less hostile, then it is a good sign. Otherwise, as netizen says, we can all enjoy our lovefest, but it ultimately means nothing.

Regards,
Ganesh Prasad

]]>