Comments on: Pakistan’s China Syndrome http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/09/28/pakistans-china-syndrome/ Perspectives on Pakistan Thu, 01 Oct 2015 19:31:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: peacelover2012 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/09/28/pakistans-china-syndrome/comment-page-1/#comment-39972 Fri, 02 Dec 2011 11:45:22 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7807#comment-39972 @ Bludde,

Since you are privileged enough to dine with the President et.al., there are a couple of issues those in your circle should note, if they are not already aware of these.

1. Irredentism by seduction:

The northern reaches of Gilgit-Baltistan gradually are being lured into the Chinese fold whether by design or accident. The heavy-handed settlement policy followed by Zia, and very poor governance, do not help. Moreover, the presence of Chinese “troops” in the guise of whatever will make for a piquant future. How do you get them to return, if they do not wish to?

Plus, there are numerous public records similar to S.M.Qureshi & cohorts granting a “blank check to China to negotiate foreign policy” on behalf of Pakistan (with India??). Exact words, and you can verify this. I could not believe what I was reading, shortly after 26/11/2008. That is a very calamitous surrender of sovereignty, practically accepting suzereinty under China! You will not have forgotten the recent offer by the Minister of Defence, ignored by China, begging them to set up a permanent Naval base at Gwadar. Is that not a dangerous diminution of sovereignty? Who can remove them, if that becomes necessary? NO COMMENT from the JI, the ever-vigilant Ejaz Haider, or sweet Shireen!!

2. We are discussing geopolitics but the most clear and present danger to Pakistan is the trajectory of population growth and the fact that no preparation has been made for 2040, just 1 generation hence. Problems of FOOD & WATER supply, SOIL conservation, cropping systems, changing to crop species more appropriate to present and future needs have received scant thought and NO preparation. These changes all have very large LAG times and cannot be initiated amidst a CRISIS. No use of blaming XYZ about water issues and such, when there is absolutely no competent thinkers, save 2 or 3, who can be bothered about these topics. A disaster is happening as we speak, and no one is concerned that Pakistan’s soils and agricultural capacity are being permanently degraded. There will be NO RECOVERY over the next 50 years, the crunch time. Urgent action is needed NOW. So please talk to the elites.

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By: pakistan http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/09/28/pakistans-china-syndrome/comment-page-1/#comment-39651 Fri, 14 Oct 2011 09:28:04 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7807#comment-39651 @Abdul_basit

Well said! Political leaders should declare solidarity with the people of the region!

Rex Minor

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By: Abdul_Basit http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/09/28/pakistans-china-syndrome/comment-page-1/#comment-39632 Wed, 12 Oct 2011 20:31:58 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7807#comment-39632 this is what politics is, President Bush came to Pakistan to assure that Pakistan and US are allies and then he left for India and despite the fact that India was in the Russian block, he offered the Civil Nuclear Technology to them, who is playing the duplicay game. US has a history that it never reward its ally instead it throws a bone, like a coin to a begger. So its i think useless to have relations like this. Its not about HN, like the pak army has clean sweeped the sawat valley and fata areas, its no big deal for them, but now its the time to ask for the equality thing. Here at this point i am sure Indians will agree, that its US who injected curropt politics in this region. Even today millions of Muslims are living in India and Hindus in Paksitan and they are in harmony, then from where this phobia of existence came and this nuclear and ballistic race came from. Its not the time to play blame game, its the time to sit in the UN and to admit all the mistakes done in the past and to find a solution to all the problems. Why our border cant be like the GCC or Shengen? I think the situation is absolutely clear and what all sides are doing is making things complex and controversial. I have conducted a poll here locally by myself, 68% people in Pakistan said that they have no problem with India. Same will be the ration in India. When majority is peace loving who is the rat. The politicians, the foreign influence in the region, unequal distribution of money or what? i dont think its difficult to find out.

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By: buntyj http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/09/28/pakistans-china-syndrome/comment-page-1/#comment-39559 Sat, 01 Oct 2011 10:07:20 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7807#comment-39559 actually chinese aid offers to eu are highly conditional and the conditions may not be accepted, china is now showing less enthusiasm for such aid
china’s attempts to come up by the bootstraps didnt really succeed china did well after 80s due an export led growth model for which it for a quarter century put aside disputes and took full advantage of access to western markets and inward fdi; indeed nearly 80% of chinas new jobs post 80s came from exorts and balance from infrastructure
china has excellent law n order, i have landed at small town chinese airports at midnite unaccompanied, not speaking chinese, no1 speaking english at airport taken a taxi n driven 1 hour to my hotel on deserted highways; have left expensive gifts in airport lockers for 3 weeks n forgotten receipts n have never faced a problem.
pakistan doesnt have chinas law n order, infrastructure etc and to adopt chinese export led growth model in adverse economic climate will need peace at home n abroad n much international goodwill. so dreams/fantasies aside theres no way pakistan can develop without international goodwill which means accepting many of the economic n other policies advocated by usa n rejected by pakistan
if pak almost uniquely didnt benefit economically like other usa allies in cold war it was due to its own wrong policies and blind hatred for india and not due to usa which often made good suggestions to pakistan for its development that were disregarded by pak

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By: pakistan http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/09/28/pakistans-china-syndrome/comment-page-1/#comment-39558 Fri, 30 Sep 2011 20:12:49 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7807#comment-39558 The rats are leaving the sinking ship.
Even the great Imperial power is looking towards Europe, meaning Germany to save Europe and the world. Time of october 3 tells its views about this dilemma.

Mr Obama has no longer the potency to undo George w ills, torture, war and great prisons since there are no jobs for the veterans afterwards. Recession or inflation are the alternatives left. Alan Greenspan is now travelling in the amazon territory and BenBernanke is not answering the phone calls?

The chinese are cool as usual and generous, have offered to help European countries particularly Greece, Portugal and Spain with dud green dollars which they were carrying for a long time. Besides they have just launched the probe in space as a first step to start building a chinese palce in Space.

Pakistan has no need to worry, there problems were of own making. Break with the evil ally and angels are going to enable this country to become self sufficient. People are the stregnth of a country, not the military. There is a lot which one can learn from the chinese who had to live in harsh conditions to catch up with industrialisation and make advances in agriculture.

Let war remain the act of ognorance of the past period.

Rex Minor

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By: buntyj http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/09/28/pakistans-china-syndrome/comment-page-1/#comment-39554 Fri, 30 Sep 2011 10:25:06 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7807#comment-39554 also both pak army and pla appear to have written off the usa as a superpower at the same time and see it in irrevocable decline and thus sense its the right time to assert themselves; is that a coincidence or did one tutor the other and, if so, which one did the tutoring?

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By: buntyj http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/09/28/pakistans-china-syndrome/comment-page-1/#comment-39553 Fri, 30 Sep 2011 10:24:50 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7807#comment-39553 also both pak army and pla appear to have written off the usa as a superpower at the same time and see it in irrevocable decline and thus sense its the right time to assert themselves; is that a coincidence or did one tutor the other and, if so, which one did the tutoring?

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By: buntyj http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/09/28/pakistans-china-syndrome/comment-page-1/#comment-39552 Fri, 30 Sep 2011 10:13:52 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7807#comment-39552 well for that matter most chinese dont have a high opinion of south asia as a whole though admittedly theres comparatively a wider relationship with india and slightly more respect for india than other south asian countries. limited goodwill in some sections towards pakistan due to govt propoganda and some limited goodwill towards india in view of ancient history, buddhism (more a liability in todays china), it/growth achievements in recent years (much to chinese surprise), and films (though increasingly scoffed as low culture); however, there are more (though overall still very few) lasting marriages between indians and chinese including in 3 rd countries. overall india and china have broader relations and goodwill and a desire even by many in govt in both countries to ringfence conflicts, manage competition and rivalry in amicable healthy manner and identify and build cooperation wherever possible and to promote people to people and cultural contacts; indeed in 90s it looked like sino indian relations would improve before usa india relations and theres no popular animosity or historical enmity, i for one have good regard for many chinese interlocutors and a few real friendships though we usually disagree on political issues; however, the pla is increasingly assertive in chinese foreign policy (especially as it senses an opportunity in perceived USA decline) and the spoilers for china are india’s hosting of dalai lama and improving relations with usa and spoilers for india are the unresolved border issue and chinas insensitivity to indian sentiments thereto and in respect of indias unsc permanent membership (though india always supported chinas p5 membership and even turned down relacing china in p5), chinas support to pakistan,and chinas unwarranted involvement in south asia and rising presence in the indian ocean. these are the factors that unfortunately dont lend optimism. and a further reason why once the usa pak relationship is irretrievably broken china will then likely pick up the pieces – though on its own terms and not pakistans (as pak may come to regret). theres a piece in the diplomat worth reading on the china-india-pakistan triangle (especially suitable for those who love hyphenated relationships).

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By: True.North http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/09/28/pakistans-china-syndrome/comment-page-1/#comment-39547 Thu, 29 Sep 2011 18:00:11 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7807#comment-39547 The Chinese are like that friend you have that keeps saying he’ll show up at your party and then calls you the next day with an excuse on how he couldn’t make it. Then you go on Facebook and find out he hung out with your rich neighbour all night.

The Pakistanis like to think the Chinese will be there for them. And I don’t think they’ll ever really learn that the Chinese don’t really care about them at all.

China is the cheapest ally the Pakistanis have. They don’t give much aid to the Pakistanis. And they don’t even really care to trade with them on favourable terms. But somehow delusional Pakistanis who need to imagine that they have a superpower in their corner too, imagine taht the Chinese will drop everything and go to bat for them.

There’s no money to be made in Pakistan. And increasingly, the strategic value of using Pakistan to keep India tied up is diminishing. Pakistan in short represents a very poor case for Chinese investment financially, diplomatically and militarily.

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By: Mortal1 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/09/28/pakistans-china-syndrome/comment-page-1/#comment-39546 Thu, 29 Sep 2011 03:52:35 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7807#comment-39546 Here are some facts about China-Pakistan relations, which Pakistanis would rather not talk about:

China-Pakistan economic relation, is a one way street which greatly benefits the Chinese. China exports & Pakistan imports. If China really wants to help out Pakistan, it can open up it’s enormous markets for Pakistani products, in a New York minute but it is least interested in doing so.

For every country (& more so for China), economic interests are above everything else. China knows too well that in the new world order, India could be it’s largest trading partner down the road. As time goes by & India rises, China would be more interested in mending fences with India rather than antagonizing it.

Diplomatically, China’s help, is limited to blocking some resolutions which are unfavorable to Pakistan & militarily, China’s help is limited to selling Pakistan, it’s obsolete weaponry & equipment.

Despite Pakistan’s (current) crush on China, a vast majority of Chinese still have an unfavorable opinion of Pakistan.

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