Comments on: She came, she saw, she confounded: Clinton in Pakistan http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/10/23/she-came-she-saw-she-confounded-clinton-in-pakistan/ Perspectives on Pakistan Thu, 01 Oct 2015 19:31:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: RaziaMalik http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/10/23/she-came-she-saw-she-confounded-clinton-in-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-40550 Tue, 24 Apr 2012 08:37:59 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7906#comment-40550 Hillary Clinton concludes a visit to Afghanistan and Pakistan promising to fight the militants to the end but also keeps the door open for new talks after preliminary contacts are fruitless. Pakistan News

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By: SkepticReader http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/10/23/she-came-she-saw-she-confounded-clinton-in-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-39888 Tue, 15 Nov 2011 18:56:05 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7906#comment-39888 The choices here are indeed moribund. What can another year or two of “fighting” accomplish that over ten years of fighting could not? When have America’s staggeringly unpopular tactics–tactics it deems very successful, such as murderously indiscriminate drone strikes and violent late-night home invasions–produced a sustained & sincere presence of its adversaries at the negotiating table?
Who but an extremely imaginative fantasy writer could credit any plausibility to the notion of a successful nation-building effort in Afghanistan, to be completed in 36 months, no less? The US would face far greater prospects of success if it initiated such a project in Antarctica, or on the Atlantic seafloor, or upon the moon.
And what of the ISI’s cordial invitation to the US to assist it in reconstructing the status quo ante–i.e., the installation of a viciously backward Pashtun puppet force to rule Afghanistan? Can the US mollify its own domestic audience with the prospect of pouring 12 years of blood and money into dethroning–and then rethroning–the Taliban?

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By: 007XXX http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/10/23/she-came-she-saw-she-confounded-clinton-in-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-39875 Sun, 13 Nov 2011 13:20:29 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7906#comment-39875 @Abdul_Basit

“Pakistan would never have become nuclear , it was just because of Indian atomic explosions,”

Replace Pakistan with India and India with China in above statement of yours and you will see validity of India’s nuclear tests.

“because we dont want more war that is turning our youth into militants and we dont want sides to swing into.”

Well said and its good to see Pakistan opening up trade opportunities with India by allowing more goods to be imported from India into Pakistan. That will certainly help.

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By: Abdul_Basit http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/10/23/she-came-she-saw-she-confounded-clinton-in-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-39874 Sun, 13 Nov 2011 12:12:36 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7906#comment-39874 @007xxx @daraindia and @KPsingh

It is plain what world thinks about India going nuclear, you had a motive now u are covering it calling it a bait to check Pakistans capabilities or whatever, Pakistan would never have become nuclear , it was just because of Indian atomic explosions, that give us the reason, without the world saying a word. The clear example is Iran, why the world didnt want iran to go nuclear its because israel is still an unofficial nuclear country.
India has been doing the military training in the tribal areas of Baluchistan and was having old relations with Iran to back its illegitimate operations, why are you people speaking of the one side story. Indians always objected US for the F-16s it gave to PAF, saying there is no need for air superiority b/w the two countries, yet keeps on buying the russian aircrafts and other military stuff. Which no-first use policy are you talking about, i think you are asking this because you still have loop holes in your nuclear technology and you want to fix it in the mean time. The Pakistan nuclear doctrine is plain and simple, i have even posted the link in my previous post. If indian nuclear doctrine is so clear why india is not signing the CTBT or NPT. This will ease up the tension between the two countries.

Its not that Pakistan has always done stuff on the borders, its just that we are having bad times and people are pointing fingers at us.

On the other side American people who were our allies have such a gold fish memory that they are now blaming Pakistan. They forgot that it was Pakistan who stands by them in this decade long war and slowed it down, yes i agree the results are not as were desired but this does not mean that we didnt help them. There were some faction of talibans still loyal to Pak govt created by the assistance of CIA and ISI back in 80s, and eliminating them without a reason is not Pak armies policy, they are waiting for them to take some harsh action after which they will be cleaned. Not like the american wagging the dog, and creating dramas like OBLs videos to win elections and then the second drama to knock him down in the heart of military HQs. We Pakistanis need evidence we dont just play by the news.

Thirdly in the past decade Pakistan has cleaned most of its Northern area including hundreds of villages and 23 major cities, whereas USAF or Nato cant even control Kabul and accusing Pakistan to assist those killings. We have thousands of military men and civillians killed in the war and US is crying on its 1800 casualties.

Where is the equality in the relations? The aid of which they are talking, it was not for the people, it was for their own purpose, it did not even helped our economy instead we cant develop ourselves in this whole period, i think now its the time we should take our nose out of this war game and let the americans handle the war like they want.

What Pak army need now is to seal its Af-Pak border, and take care of the inside themselves and let american do whats on the other side.

Despite spending 150 billion US accomplished nothing and yet asking for the 10 billion they paid to Paksitan.

Soon Pakistan will be out of this drama war and will start its Gawadar port and will start focusing on its trade and development.

because we dont want more war that is turning our youth into militants and we dont want sides to swing into.

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By: SkepticReader http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/10/23/she-came-she-saw-she-confounded-clinton-in-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-39859 Fri, 11 Nov 2011 03:20:05 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7906#comment-39859 Afghanistan persists in confounding US objectives, in particular the US intent to exit Afghanistan. The three Cheshire-Cat choices Ms. MacDonald sketches are thus dead & decomposing on arrival.

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By: pakistan http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/10/23/she-came-she-saw-she-confounded-clinton-in-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-39847 Tue, 08 Nov 2011 15:13:08 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7906#comment-39847 In a poker game the identity of the one who took the bait becomes known once the game is over. THE GAME IS NOT OVER YET!!
Iran is the real example not Israel. Everyone knows that it has the nukes and the delivery systems and yet its adversaries keep insisting that it has a program but not the real weapon. Who is taking the bait? Certainly not Iran?

Rex Minor

PS India and Pakistan affair was a game for nursery students. Two renowned wizards coming from an Indian village, one living in Pakistan and the other in India were responsible for and remained in touch with each other, concerning their inputs for the program.

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By: KPSingh01 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/10/23/she-came-she-saw-she-confounded-clinton-in-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-39845 Mon, 07 Nov 2011 16:51:47 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7906#comment-39845 Abdul Basit:

” I have been reading the defence journal where it clearly states that the 1998 indian atomic explosions were not motiveless, they wanted a hot pursuit in pak-kashmir, and it was taken angrily by washington,”

I’d strongly recommend the book, “Nuclear Deception by Adrian Levy and Catherine Clark”. India has used baits to gauge Pakistan’s nuclear capability and avoid rumors. In the 1980, India had a vague assessment of Pakistan’s nuclear bomb development and launch capability. If Pakistan’s bomb could be exposed, Pressler act would have come into effect and thwarted all the American efforts in Afghanistan. Reagan was lying to the Congress about Pakistan’s bomb and delivery capability in order to get funds approved for the American Jihad in Afghanistan. So India launched Operation Brass Tacks, knowing well Pakistan would react emotionally. The goal was to see if Pakistan would chest thump about it nuclear delivery systems that Reagan had denied. Sure enough, Pakistan took the bait and launched Zarb-e-Momin and the blind generals got so emotionally carried away that they demonstrated the retrofits on the F16s to carry the nukes. In 1998, there was again the question of yield of the Islamic bomb and capability. The only way to expose and get that information was to throw the bait again. In addition, India had its experimental verification on its bombs which had been optimized using computer simulations. They knew of the risk in doing it. They knew sanctions would be imposed. But they went ahead with it because they knew Pakistanis were foolish enough to fall into the trap, show off their capabilities and face sanctions at the same time. Sanctions were badly needed on Pakistan because it would affect their mission in Kashmir which was at its peak around that time. India also sent a message to the Jihadi groups that were housed in Eastern Afghanistan. A nuke there would have eliminated them if a war broke out. Several equations had to be balanced and India went ahead with this risky adventure. And it worked. Pakistan took the bait and exploded its bombs and India/Israel and other curious nations took notes of the yield and capabilities. Sanctions did not hurt India much. But Pakistan has been on the receiving end ever since.

Sometimes things are not done to thump chests. They are done with cunning plans to bring about the confirmation of hidden truths. The smartest people are in Israel. From what I have read, this idea was hatched by Israel and worked through Indians. Both countries are on alert about the Islamic bomb.

“on the other hand pakistans explosions were strategic to balance the military power in the region and was taken with sorrow.”

Pakistanis are extremely emotional and can be manipulated into exposing their foolishness. This was clearly evident by the way they responded to Indian nukes. Had they maintained silence, it would have scared India a lot more than chest thumping to prove their capabilities. It is always important to keep your enemy guessing. Look at what Israel has done. Everyone knows they have the bombs and missiles. But they will not take the bait. But they will use it if they have to.

“Now a country many times bigger than Pakistan was threatening a smaller neighbouring country, is this justice. Pakistan never boasted about its nuclear arsenals.”

See above. It was not a threat. It was a bait and Pakistan took it.

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By: DaraIndia http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/10/23/she-came-she-saw-she-confounded-clinton-in-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-39844 Mon, 07 Nov 2011 07:34:31 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7906#comment-39844 Abdul Basit,

Of course India has a bigger army, it is a much much bigger country. My point was that you blame others for poor rersearch and then go forth and come up with blatantly wrong information.

One reason why Indiua keeps a big army, and so much on the Pak border is because of Pakistan – think about what Pakistan has been doing all along. And if India really wanted to harrass your country, they would have taken advantage of your current problems and created mischief. The army is there to prevent Pakistanis from committing moe blunders against India. If you get over your India mania you may see things prtoperly.

“China and India are under pact to reduce the army on their borders, so major part of Indian army is active on India-Pakistan border.”

I think this quote of yours simply proves either you are an innocent child or a totally ignorant adult. Good luck

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By: 007XXX http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/10/23/she-came-she-saw-she-confounded-clinton-in-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-39843 Mon, 07 Nov 2011 03:57:25 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7906#comment-39843 @Abdul_Basit

“I have been reading the defence journal where it clearly states that the 1998 indian atomic explosions were not motiveless, they wanted a hot pursuit in pak-kashmir”

A lot of things are said for sake of saying and not doing. When Indian parliament was attacked then Indian government mobilized forces on LOC and operation Prakaram was underway, but only to threaten Pakistan and America and motive was never to intrude in Pakistan. But Pakistan created a monster out of the event. Similar situation was created at time Indian nuke explosion. Diplomacy is a sophisticated game and Indians are pretty good at it.

“Now the only way to defeat those who are spoiling the name of Islam is to make an alliance, and starts cleaning the mess, or there will always be a reason for the fight.”

And how do you propose to do that? By murdering minorities in name of Allah and Prophet?? Heroic status of Mumtaz Qadri in Pakistan, is known to all world. Because someone throws a newspaper, that has Mohammad word in it, into a dustbin; he becomes eligible for capital punishment. Is that how your Islam works? And that is how you build an Islamic Republic of Pakistan and by murdering the people of other/no faith you want to spread Islam?

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By: Abdul_Basit http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/10/23/she-came-she-saw-she-confounded-clinton-in-pakistan/comment-page-1/#comment-39835 Sun, 06 Nov 2011 20:03:51 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7906#comment-39835 007XXX

Well, your approach is more a retro approach, you are going through all the past times, what has done in the past is not changeable, so its useless to discuss that. What we are doing here is to make the future right. We all should accept this fact that whole world is in a transition right now and are trying to settle themselves differently. Such transitions when every country is going though a change is a good time to progress towards development and new good relations. New states are developing, old leaderships are dying. People are more informed. Individual opinions are mattering in this age.

You are asking me to do a research, When you are saying that your nuclear doctrine was pure, I have been reading the defence journal where it clearly states that the 1998 indian atomic explosions were not motiveless, they wanted a hot pursuit in pak-kashmir, and it was taken angrily by washington, on the other hand pakistans explosions were strategic to balance the military power in the region and was taken with sorrow. Now a country many times bigger than Pakistan was threatening a smaller neighbouring country, is this justice. Pakistan never boasted about its nuclear arsenals.

http://www.defencejournal.com/apr99/pak- nuclear-doctrine.htm

This is the real Pakistan nuclear doctrine and you will get the facts.

Daraindia

I also dont want to paste the number of personnels working for Indian army, But its a fact that india ranks b/w 3rd and 4th in terms of biggest armies of the world. 80% of the indian troops are on Pakistan borders, China and India are under pact to reduce the army on their borders, so major part of Indian army is active on India-Pakistan border.

KPSingh01

Well we dont underestimate RAW coz it was as efficient as was the KGB in soviet time. Your parliament is surely restricting them, and it is to inhibit them getting involved in the Indian politics, like the ISI which sure now has a role in Pakistani politics, as far as assasination of Dawood Ibrahim is concerned, i dont know why ur whole state is making an issue of just a local goon, he is no OBL having his personal army. There are already too many killings in Karachi, RAW can just hire any target killer to do this job, they dont have to do it alone. Its just that Indian army didnt want him to get killed. I hope you know that in the past few months, there have been anonymous target killings in Karachi.This is in context to those killings. I agree with you that double agents surely exist in every agency, and now ISI is suffering from this disease, that why there are component who are pro taliban and pro-americans. But somehow pro-americans are loosing their edge with the betrayal of US army. I again repeat that with the extra pressure that US is creating on Pakistan, the middle class educated Pakistani who were with US are now loosing confidence on American policies.

Now the only way to defeat those who are spoiling the name of Islam is to make an alliance, and starts cleaning the mess, or there will always be a reason for the fight.

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