Comments on: Capturing the Punjabi imagination: drones and “the noble savage” http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/11/13/capturing-the-punjabi-imagination-drones-and-the-noble-savage/ Perspectives on Pakistan Thu, 01 Oct 2015 19:31:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: https://eyeweardock.com/shop/brand/versace/ http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/11/13/capturing-the-punjabi-imagination-drones-and-the-noble-savage/comment-page-2/#comment-53748 Sun, 28 Sep 2014 15:24:37 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7948#comment-53748 Excellent blog here! Also your web site loads up fast! What web host are you using? Can I get your affiliate link to your host? I wish my site loaded up as quickly as yours lol

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By: True.North. http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/11/13/capturing-the-punjabi-imagination-drones-and-the-noble-savage/comment-page-2/#comment-40095 Fri, 16 Dec 2011 19:19:11 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7948#comment-40095 Spot on article Myra. Personally, I have noticed this exact tendency to romanaticize (if you will) the conflict in the FATA, by both official and non-official Pakistanis.

Most of them have never been to the FATA. And while every one of them claims to know a Pashtun (often in their employ), most have never truly had an in-depth conversation with a FATA resident in any recent memory. Yet, they claim to be the authoritative voice for the Pashtun people.

Sure the Pashtuns are getting a raw deal in this current conflict. But the question to ask them is whether they prefer America’s drones to the Pakistan Army’s fairly heavy hand?

And the broader question to ask Pakistanis in the first place is why America (and the West) is in their region to begin with? Pakistanis will blame everybody, including the neighbour’s dog before they accept an ounce of responsibility for the current state of affairs in their country.

The Jews went through the Holocaust and I could swear they complain less than Pakistanis who have apparently been wronged by all and sundry.

And this should be recognized as the core issue. It may be cultural. Or it may just be some kind of national myopia. I don’t know. But they don’t accept responsibility. And they have a tendency to misallocate blame. China gets praise when it scarely delivers any aid, and scarcely provides any real strategic assistance. The US is basically keeping Pakistan from re-entering the stone age and is blamed for everything from a plugged toilet to radicalized Pathans. The “noble savage” world view is just an extension of the Pakistani national psyche. Pakistanis can’t be victims of US aggression if the Pashtuns aren’t victims of US aggression. And the Pashtuns can’t be victims of US agression unless they are simple, innocent folk who aren’t in any way, shape or form involved with the conflict in the region. It’s not like Pashtuns have been sheltering fighters killing NATO soldiers and civilians in Afghanistan or anything. Nope. Obama simply rolled over one morning and decided the Pashtun body count wasn’t high enough. Yeah. That’s what happened. (If I say that convincingly enough do I get Pakistani citizenship?)

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By: pakistan http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/11/13/capturing-the-punjabi-imagination-drones-and-the-noble-savage/comment-page-1/#comment-40088 Wed, 14 Dec 2011 22:09:37 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7948#comment-40088 @outside observer
Well said, you almost stole my thoughts. More americans have lost their lives under the watch of Mr Obama than before.
At present China is on a buying spree in Europe to bercome an economic powerhouse before spreading his muscles in the military arena. Pakistan now holds the right cards.

Rex Minor

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By: GulamnotGoolom http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/11/13/capturing-the-punjabi-imagination-drones-and-the-noble-savage/comment-page-1/#comment-40053 Sun, 11 Dec 2011 01:41:31 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7948#comment-40053 thus you have the revenge of 24 Pak army soldiers being killed, by Afghan , and that is all it was!

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By: jabeen http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/11/13/capturing-the-punjabi-imagination-drones-and-the-noble-savage/comment-page-1/#comment-40045 Fri, 09 Dec 2011 10:41:05 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7948#comment-40045 In the history Pakhtuns have played a major role in this area and one day Pakhtuns will rise again.

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By: KPSingh01 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/11/13/capturing-the-punjabi-imagination-drones-and-the-noble-savage/comment-page-1/#comment-40037 Wed, 07 Dec 2011 21:11:18 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7948#comment-40037 OutsidrObserver: “Beautiful! So, an article about the scary fact that Pakistan, and India too are NUCLEAR powers degrades in a shouting match. And not one comment touches the point!!”

Here comes a British citizen, tired of seeing the shouting match between Indians and Pakistanis, no matter what the topic is. That must tell something. The shouting continues on over and over again. I am sure you have never read much of history and about the screw up your forefathers have inflicted on this world. Most conflicts that are going on in the world today were triggered by your people when they ruled the world. We are paying the price for their selfish acts. Therefore you cannot come in here and ask us to shut up. You are no longer the master.

“Is this not the best evidence the whole world can’t but be scared of your regional-religious never-ending tit for tat eye for eye self imposed conflict?.”

It was never like this in the past. This whole thing was a creation of the imperial British. Indian denizens, irrespective of their religions, had learned to live side by side. Do you know anything about Radcliffe? Do you know that the very idea of Pakistan was hatched in London? Do you know that the man who became the leader of the Pakistan movement could hardly fit the description of a Muslim? He was a pork eating, alcohol drinking, cigarette smoking and extremely Anglicized lackey of the British. Pakistan was created in a hurry to prevent the Indian subcontinent from becoming anti-British and eliminate all the possibilities of countering the Russian Imperialists from expanding to the Arabian sea. Violence was needed to accelerate the divide. Pakistan’s military was pampered by the UK and other Western countries in order to strengthen their hold on this country. Now you are sitting comfortably somewhere in UK and telling us to calm down? What an irony? Do you know that no long ago the British and the French fought tooth and nail over centuries? Have you heard of Napoleon and his defeat by Lord Nelson? They spread that war to their colonies as well. What was mostly a Western European war between Germany and others there, was turned into a world war with people from the colonies dying for their white masters. Let us not even go there. The mess we see in our region today is a direct consequence of what your blind and bigoted ancestors have done to us and the rest of the world.

“Is not India vs Pakistan, but Afghans, Punjabi, Pashtun, Kashmir… you guys are not Feudal. You are TRIBAL, and can’t but resemble the gangs in america that stupidly shoot at each other and kill themselves…”

And you guys are cold, ruthless and devoid of any compassion for others. Worldwide, civil wars and calamity persist because of leaching of the world by your colonial ancestors. Go read world history and you will realize how much of blood your history is built on.

“Oh, wait. If it were not because some of you have decided to export your violent ways to the streets of London, or make transportation resources into mass killing weapons I will second what the police have done with the gangs, leave you all one until you kill each other out and decimate yourselves.”

It is not going to be easy for you brother. Your forefathers created Pakistan for their geo-political reasons, pampered it, gave its citizens preference and privileges. Now those citizens call London their second home. Mosques have proliferated there and they are calling for Jihad against the British. They are marrying white girls, converting them to Islam and are multiplying rapidly in UK. Guys who went to London School of Economics turned into Jihadists overnight and are haunting everyone around. Welcome to the real world. If you have to blame anyone, blame your blind ancestors, especially Churchill. Your forefathers sowed the seeds of the global turmoil in South Asia and unfortunately you guys are going to reap it. We have been battling these guys since our independence. Your successive governments turned a blind eye to our woes and encouraged this Satanic country to become stronger by the day. Islamic radicalism was propped up and fueled by the locals and the Western powers. When they made the Islamic bomb, most clandestine material went from your country. The US prevented anyone from stopping it. Now the menace has grown like a monster. And your armies are facing them. Good Lord! You will have to clean up the mess your leaders have created. You are not going to get away with it.

“You hate each other way too much.”

Yeah, thanks to your imperialistic ancestors. We were not like that before your sailors stepped on to our shores. I don’t think you realize this. They hate you guys more than they hate us. It has come to that now. They are not going to leave you at this point.

“Poor Ghandi would be turning in his grave but he thankfully does not have one.”

Kindly do not drag Gandhi into any of this. He does not deserve to be insulted by someone who has no idea what Gandhi fought against.

“Just keep your nukes pointed at each other, do not sell them to people that want to use it on others who have NEVER heard nor care much about what you have created for yourselves: a dustbowl of hatred and violence.”

Our nukes are pointed at each other. But I heard that your folks are spending sleepless nights worrying about dirty bombs sneaking up from under their beds. You will pay for what your governments have done to the other parts of the world. It is funny to see someone from a country that was famous for prejudice and discrimination (don’t you guys call most of us “Pakis”?) telling about hatred and violence.

“Blame your own politicians and leaders, not a world that can’t fix you even if you allowed it to.”

Before that let us start with your leaders and politicians. They are the ones who have messed this world up. We will come to our leaders and politicians after that.

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By: KPSingh01 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/11/13/capturing-the-punjabi-imagination-drones-and-the-noble-savage/comment-page-1/#comment-40033 Wed, 07 Dec 2011 18:33:35 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7948#comment-40033 Berkut118: “why does Pakistan have such a militarized alliance with the US? Because it’s worried about an Indian attack.”

Nope. They are a nuclear power now. They have more nukes than India or even Britain. If India makes any military moves, they openly declare that they will launch nukes into all parts of India. So how does it matter for them about India’s military presence? It is an excuse. They need an enemy (not the people, but their military, which has its own mind) at all times. And an enemy who can be defined along religious lines is the best enemy one can sustain at all costs. If things go quiet, launch an attack, wait for retaliation and use the retaliation to sustain the enmity. Talking like a philosopher sounds nice. But the reality is something that we cannot afford to ignore.

“Why had India militarized the border so heavily with it’s “half a million strong” military? Because it’s worried about a Pakistani attack from the north.”

We have been attacked in 1948, 1965, 1971 and in 1999 at Kargil. We faced an unprecedented insurgency in Kashmir from 1990 to 2007. Kashmir became a battle ground. Troops have to be present in a war zone. One has to be prepared to counter any moves made by a state run by a war mongering culture. We cannot afford to lower our guard. We do not chest thump about nuking others out of existence. We could. But we probably won’t have the heart to even retaliate. So we rely on conventional methods as much as possible.

“so: what’s common between those two situations?
THE FEAR OF AN IMPENDING ATTACK.”

Yeah. Let us be a big brother and disband our military. We can sit and pray in the evenings instead. Be real Mr. Nice guy! If you happen to be near a crime ridden neighborhood, you need to protect yourself and set up the necessary security arrangements. You have no idea how warped the elements inside Pakistan are. Unfortunately in that country, those warped elements happen to have all the power. I would never even wink my eye once when I know that these elements are hell bent on taking on us. You must go and see some of their videos on youtube. You will be shocked. And there are way too many of them that have been brainwashing their people over generations. Talking is easy. Try talking your way out from a mugger next time.

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By: KPSingh01 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/11/13/capturing-the-punjabi-imagination-drones-and-the-noble-savage/comment-page-1/#comment-40032 Wed, 07 Dec 2011 18:12:50 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7948#comment-40032 Berkut118: “Instead of fighting with each other, India and Pakistan should try to understand what each side wants.”

India wants this –
(1) No cross border terrorism,
(2) No intrusion into Kashmir using proxy elements and fomenting chaos
(3) Hand over Dawood Ibrahim, Maulana Azhar, Omar Sheikh
(4) Help complete the investigation of Mumbai attack planners and hand them over
(5) Accept Simla agreement
(6) Withdraw from Siachien
(7) Do not interfere in our relations with Afghanistan
(8) Do business with us and expand bilateral trade
(9) Be a good neighbor

Pakistan’s demands:
(1) Kashmir is ours. Hand it over unconditionally.
(2) You cut East Pakistan off. Therefore we are justified in cutting you off.
(3) Withdraw all troops from your Western border
(4) Close all your embassies and Get out of Afghanistan
(5) Jihad is our fundamental right and as Muslims we will not give up our Madrasas and training of Mujahideen.
(6) We cannot do anything about Mumbai attacks as it was done by non-state actors
(7) Dawood Ibrahim is not in Pakistan. Provide proof that he is there.
(8) Stop expanding your military budget and purchases. It makes us spend beyond our means to keep up.
(9) Withdraw from Siachien
(10) Hand over the culprits responsible for Samjautha express explosion
(11) Close down RSS, BJP and Sangh Parivar
(12) We will think of business etc only after our pre-conditions above have been met.

Check-mate!

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By: Berkut118 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2011/11/13/capturing-the-punjabi-imagination-drones-and-the-noble-savage/comment-page-1/#comment-40025 Tue, 06 Dec 2011 21:55:50 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/?p=7948#comment-40025 This is depressing.
Squabbles over the crimes of religious minorities will get neither India or Pakistan anywhere. Admit it, both Hindus, Muslims, and Sikhs have killed each other. It doesn’t matter how many have been killed by who, the killing of even one person is just as much of a sin. What matters is that India and Pakistan will still be neighbors for the rest of the forseeable future. Instead of fighting with each other, India and Pakistan should try to understand what each side wants.

why does Pakistan have such a militarized alliance with the US? Because it’s worried about an Indian attack.

Why had India militarized the border so heavily with it’s “half a million strong” military? Because it’s worried about a Pakistani attack from the north.

so: what’s common between those two situations?
THE FEAR OF AN IMPENDING ATTACK.

how do we solve it? by demilitarizing and resorting to diplomacy.

I am an Indian (NRI), but I feel equally disgusted and ashamed at how both groups are behaving on this thread.

think of it this way, What is the difference between Indian people and Pakistani people?

only religion. In fact, Indians and Pakistanis share the same ancient blood from our Aryan ancestors.

So, let’s let leave this fighting behind, and work for the common interest of Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Buddhists, and everyone else.

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