Winning the battle, losing the war; the US and Pakistan

November 29, 2011

When former foreign minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi said this weekend that Pakistan’s nuclear weapons are not safe under President Asif Ali Zardari, he almost certainly did not mean that the nuclear arsenal is not secure. The nuclear weapons have little to do with the civilian government; they are guarded ferociously by the Pakistan Army both against terrorist attacks and any foreign or U.S. attempt to seize them, and, as a matter of pride for Pakistanis chafing at any American suggestions otherwise,  safeguarded to international standards.

Rather it was a rhetorical device to attack the government at a rally where Qureshi announced he was joining the Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf (PTI) , the party of former cricket star Imran Khan, a rising force in Pakistani politics.  Qureshi’s assertion tapped into growing anti-Americanism, and a populist view that the  civilian government led by the Pakistan People’s Party, to which he once belonged, had somehow sold the country’s honour – in this case symbolised by nuclear weapons – in return for American aid.  (Pakistan first agreed its uneasy alliance with the United States under former military ruler Pervez Musharraf.)

Yet it is a measure of how distorted and narrow political discourse has become within Pakistan that Qureshi might use the safety of nuclear weapons to attack the government. That political discourse, difficult even at the best of times, is likely to become even narrower in the fury which has followed the NATO airstrikes which killed 24 Pakistani soldiers on the border with Afghanistan on Saturday. 

The attack, which Pakistan says was unprovoked and NATO described as a “tragic, unintended incident”, has outraged Pakistanis who have already endured thousands of casualties in a war they believe was forced on them by the United States.

Underneath the confusion about the aims and course of the Afghan war, lies a deep sense of hurt that Pakistani lives are somehow less valued than American lives, and a painful loss of pride over the country’s inability to defend its territory from attacks by a foreign, and apparently hostile, power – whether from airstrikes, drones, or even the May raid by U.S. forces who killed Osama bin Laden.

The result is a society which is being shaped by the Afghan war in ways which neither Pakistan’s neighbours, nor western powers, would choose.  The airstrikes, coming soon after the forced resignation of Pakistan’s ambassador to Washington Husain Haqqani for allegedly seeking American help to curb the power of the military, have added fresh oxygen to a combustible mix of anti-Americanism and religious nationalism enveloping Pakistan.  Haqqani denies the allegation, but the so-called “Memogate” scandal has badly weakened the civilian government, while the airstrikes have rallied the country behind the army.

In such an environment, there is little room for a discourse that might suggest Pakistanis should also be outraged at the deaths of civilians blown up by suicide bombers sent by the Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP), and therefore discuss ways to turn decisively against Islamist militants. Nor is there space for a realistic political debate on how Pakistan should manage its foreign relations that goes beyond a hatred of America and an illusory faith in China’s readiness to ride to the rescue

Before the latest crisis, the government  had been pushing through legislative reforms to help democracy take root in Pakistan. It is difficult to see these making much more progress now as the government fights for survival. The tedious mechanics of documenting the economy, as a first step towards increasing the tax base and raising revenues, dropped off the political agenda long ago.

Expectations that the civilian government could become the first in Pakistan’s history to complete its term and be replaced by another democratically elected government are being lowered by the day as the politicians descend into the kind of internecine feuds typical of the 1990s. That decade ended in Musharraf’s military coup in 1999. 

The next casualty of the rising tide of nationalism could well be Pakistan’s warming ties with India – one of the few relationships in the region that until now had been going well.   The civilian government had eased itself into the driving seat in pushing for improved trade relations with India, though no one would suggest that it made the progress it did without the approval of the Pakistan Army. It has a particular interest in better ties with India - the army has drawn its power from a perceived need to defend the country against an Indian threat, contributing to Pakistan’s civilian-military imbalance. 

So when Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and his Pakistani counterpart Yusuf Raza Gilani joined each other in early April to watch the Pakistan-India cricket semi-final in the town of Mohali,  they discussed a Pakistani appeal that India drop its opposition to an EU duty waiver on Pakistani textiles exports.  By the end of April, it was becoming clear that improved trade ties could be a game-changer.  (Pakistan had earlier resisted improving trade without first settling the Kashmir dispute.)  By early November, New Delhi agreed to the EU duty waiver and, more significantly, Pakistan granted Most Favoured Nation (MFN) status to India.

That mood has changed.  Reports have begun to surface in the Pakistani media that the army has reservations about granting MFN status to India. The Jamaat-ud-Dawa (JuD), the humanitarian wing of the banned Lashkar-e-Taiba militant group,  and an organisation close to the military,  has launched protests against granting India MFN status, saying that the Kashmir dispute must be settled first. 

After the NATO airstrikes, a JuD protest to mourn the Pakistani soldiers killed turned quickly into a protest against improved trade ties with India. While the government may yet be able to push ahead with its India agenda – albeit on a very tight military leash – the signs are not looking good.

Progress in relations with India had become – quite unexpectedly – one of the few release valves left to ease off the pressures building up within Pakistan.  On its western border, the United States and its allies are pushing ahead with an agenda in Afghanistan which has already integrated the possibility there will be no early peace settlement with Afghan insurgents - an idea long sought by Pakistan.   And while Pakistan won some initial sympathy from foreign governments over the NATO airstrikes, its decision to boycott next week’s international conference on Afghanistan in Bonn, will - at least symbolically – highlight its isolation. It is beginning to look like a country turning in on itself in dangerous ways.

We have always known there was a risk that Pakistan could become to Afghanistan what Cambodia was to Vietnam - a country horribly destabilised by an American war spilling across its borders.  We are not there yet. Perhaps those who say all will be well when the United States leaves the region will prove right – American influence for decades has tended to be toxic to Pakistan.

 But pay attention to the domestic political discourse.  There  is no point in winning the battle in Afghanistan and losing the war in Pakistan.

Comments

Ganesh:
“maybe you guys need to look at your own “B” before it becomes another “B”. Get it?”

-Ganesh, before that happens, Pakistan will nuke India.

Posted by Umairpk | Report as abusive
 

Ganesh: “India should thank Pakistan for the Mumbai 2008 attacks as these have strengthened Indian solidarity like nothing before”

By staging Mumbai attacks, Pakistan shot itself in the foot. It was another Kargil type incursion that backfired on Pakistan. It has made other countries identify with India – UK had London bombings, Spain had Madrid bombing, US had 9/11. Terrorists in all these events were traced back to Pakistan. In the past these countries ignored India’s woes when Pakistan caused trouble. Now one by one, they have begun to understand India’s resilience and strength against terrorism and have curtailed Pakistan’s military severely by tying foreign aid with conditions. Pakistan has shut out the avenue for resources in order to stage proxy wars by trying the Mumbai attacks.

It is possible that India let Mumbai attacks happen. In the long run, India gained and Pakistan burnt its own rear end. Though innocents died at the hands of militants, I don’t think our intelligence system is that dumb. They slipped in SIM cards into Pakistan and these cards appeared in the cell phones of the militants. Then they could listen to all the commands coming from Pakistan during the attacks. If they could do that much, I can bet they could have prevented it as well. But in strategic games, one aims for long term damage to the enemy. Pakistan faced international isolation and condemnation as a result of Mumbai attacks. Now the Americans and their allies are openly accusing Pakistan of its duplicity and double dealing. I won’t be surprised if Dawood Ibrahim has a deal with the RAW to act as a mole inside Pakistan. I don’t think the guy would be alive otherwise. Just my speculations.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

Umairpk: “Pakistan will nuke India”

If India fights a direct war with Pakistan, there is reason to raise the nuke fist. But B may not happen because of India. Pakistan is doing a great job itself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1tQ18w4J kk

Pakistan needs no help from anyone. They are resilient, self sufficient and fully armed to destroy themselves from within.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

@Ganesh Prasad
What I mentioned the famous “K” word, it was in context of peace and economic cooperation and what it would take but right away you go to “atutang” position. I expected it and that is fine but don’t talk about cooperation if you are going to do that.

My main query at this point is your reaction to what Joe said. Your position is that Taliban are your enemy. No good or bad Taliban. Do you still maintain that position? Now who is going to save your strategic partner? Now is the time to stand up and be counted as global leader.

Better wait for instructions from home office.

Posted by Matrixx | Report as abusive
 

Matrixx,

You don’t seem to understand the subtle difference between rejecting the Two-Nation Theory (TNT) and advocating “Akhand Bharat”, “Atoot Ang” and other expressions of territorial claims. One does not automatically imply the other. Can you understand this?

Most Indians (apart from the Hindu right wing who don’t speak for the majority of us) reject the Two-Nation Theory because we believe that people of all religions can live together as equals in our country. Our experience over the last 64 years has largely borne out that belief. This *does not mean* that we do not recognise Pakistan’s right to exist as a separate nation or that we want to take it back.

This is a subtle point that you really need to get into your heads. We accept Pakistan’s right to exist and respect it as a sovereign country. Heck, we don’t even mind your hanging on to AJK and Gilgit-Baltistan. We make statements of having the right to ALL of Kashmir for political reasons but on the ground, we believe in maintaining the status quo. You keep what you’ve got and we’ll keep what we’ve got.

So India is no threat to your territorial integrity. All we’re saying is that the Two-Nation Theory cannot be used to claim Kashmir, because being Muslim is not a reason to leave India. You guys think that’s a good enough reason. We don’t. And by “we”, I mean all Indians, including Indian Muslims.

This is the real issue you need to understand. The past effect of the Two-Nation Theory is accepted (the creation of Pakistan), and we don’t seek to reverse it. We just don’t want it applied again in future because we simply don’t believe in it. Our existence as a secular state is us walking the talk, which we have done quite successfully with only a few aberrations.
[Those aberrations are our internal issue and we will pursue justice for them. Even Hindus have not forgotten the atrocities against Sikhs in 1984 and Muslims in 2002, and we will get justice for our fellow citizens one day.]

India is not under any pressure today. We’re doing fine. It is Pakistan that is under enormous pressure. Hence your statement that India needs to pay a price to pursue peace with Pakistan is deluded thinking.

Regards,
Ganesh Prasad

Posted by prasadgc | Report as abusive
 

Umair said:

>> “maybe you guys need to look at your own “B” before it becomes another “B”. Get it?”
> Ganesh, before that happens, Pakistan will nuke India.

Cool down, Umair. You don’t have to see Indian shadows behind every rock. Your army and Frontier Corps are doing an excellent job of alienating the Baloch even without Indian help. You created Bangladesh by exploiting East Pakistan and refusing to share political power with them. No wonder they wanted out, and Indian intervention was just icing on the cake. You’ve been doing the same with the Baloch. Your own media have documented the tortures and deaths there. Now the Baloch say they’ve reached the point of no return and want out too. Where does India come into this?

If you treat your people well, why would they want out? Men at their worst – Pakistan Army.

Regards,
Ganesh Prasad

Posted by prasadgc | Report as abusive
 

Poor Umair, while you’re so busy targetting India with your nukes, there are other powers with far more reason to separate Balochistan from Pakistan: http://bit.ly/w51OTk

You’ve made an enemy of the US, so watch your back.

Regards,
Ganesh Prasad

Posted by prasadgc | Report as abusive
 

Ganesh: “Now the Baloch say they’ve reached the point of no return and want out too. ”

The reason Pakistan needs conflicts in the region is because it is the only way to keep its fragile unity intact. Fissures have been there right from the start – Pashtuns never wanted to be a part of Pakistan. They never recognized the Durand line. Balochistan was simply annexed without their consent. East Pakistan was geographically and otherwise had all the chances to go on its own. In order to engage the Pashtuns, Pakistan sent them into Kashmir and saw to that the conflict never ends. War against the Soviets helped direct all the divisive forces outward towards an infidel enemy. That war got over. After that war got over, Kashmir conflict was revived to keep Pakistan’s unity intact. They managed to pull in ten years that way. War on terror ended up zeroing in on Pakistan itself. Now they have started playing America as the enemy, Taliban as the Islamic saviors etc to milk benefits out of another conflict. India is needed as an enemy for the same reason. If issues can be created inside India, and India is forced to retaliate, that would buy more time to keep the fast drying glue to keep Pakistan united. If they had taken Kashmir in 1948, they would not have settled with that. They would be blaming India for helping Kashmiris fight Pakistan’s integrity and existence and would be sharpening their swords. Pakistani leaders could have worked towards economic prosperity and progress. That would have helped all the diverse regions and groups to stay on. Instead they chose muscle power as the method. This is a dangerous path. One has to keep on running on the treadmill of conflict to survive. If the treadmill stops, the country would fall. Peace scares Pakistan more than anything else. Though they pretend to seek settlement of issues, they will also delay it and dodge it to perpetuate the issue. At some point, things will spiral down into chaos. We are seeing it today with our own eyes.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

Ganesh:

Pakistan’s nuclear doctrine is based on minimum credible deterrence, while conventional warfare doctrine of Pakistan Army is based on offensive defense. It is very clear that any enemy, ANY ENEMY be it the US or India who attempts to either disintegrate Pakistan or jeopardize Pakistan’s territorial integrity will be nuked. there is absolutely no doubt about it. so whatever happens in Baluchistan, let it be clear no one can afford a nuclear strike. Every single inch of Baluch territory will be defended at every cost. No matter who the enemy is, no matter what its intentions are.

Posted by Umairpk | Report as abusive
 

KP Singh said:

> Peace scares Pakistan more than anything else.

I am afraid this is true.

Regards,
Ganesh Prasad

Posted by prasadgc | Report as abusive
 

Umair said:

> conventional warfare doctrine of Pakistan Army is based on offensive defense.

You can say that again! Don’t we know it ;-)

Regards,
Ganesh Prasad

Posted by prasadgc | Report as abusive
 

Ganesh:
what you really need to know, study and think hard is, is the nuclear doctrine of Pakistan. Hands off Baluchistan or get nuked. It is that simple.

Posted by Umairpk | Report as abusive
 

Umairpk: “Hands off Baluchistan or get nuked. It is that simple.”

How come your mighty military has not said that to the US? How did Musharraf jump ship in 2001 when the Americans threatened Pakistan about sending your country back to stone age? Didn’t you have the nukes then? How come nukes were not used during Kargil conflict? It is all bravado and macho stuff. No one will take Pakistan seriously for these claims. If a problem is created to divide up Pakistan by the powers, it will not be through direct war. Pakistan has been weakened economically and otherwise already. All it takes is a few mines to go off internally and Pakistan will be on a tail spin along with its nukes. There is no time to buy time. Pakistan should try to mend its ways with the US. Going head on with the US will be a long term disaster. It is because of the US, Pakistan has managed to survive for this long.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

Joe Biden is a straight guy and is not well known for political spins or long term planning.His commnts about talibans is just a new stitch to fool others.

The American people do not have any enemies in the world, but because of its aggressive policies it is unfortunately regarded an enemy by a number of countries!

Rex Minor

Posted by pakistan | Report as abusive
 

“before that happens, Pakistan will nuke India.”
Posted by Umairpk

Easier said than done! It’s easy for pimple faced, emotional nobodys to make such foolish statements on internet forums but not so much, for the leader of a country who very well knows that the reaction of such an action will result in total decimation of your country & it’s entire population. In any event, as others have pointed out, Baluchistan will secede from Pakistan, not because India, US or anyone else wants it to. It will, because the Balochs want it & because your army is fueling their sentiments. What will your army do, under such circumstances, nuke Baluchistan or conduct another East Pakistan style genocide?

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

Talking about nukes, here is an interesting piece:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world  /us/US-expert-claims-Khan-network-suppl ied-nuke-technology-to-India/articleshow  /11206360.cms

I don’t know if Khan directly or indirectly was involved in getting the centrifugal technology to India or not. I can see efforts to turn Pak against him. Right now he is one of the “fathers” of Pakistan. That can change if it is found that he was sleeping with the “worst enemy”. In the bargain he can reveal more about Pakistan’s nuclear secrets to the world. He could be accused of being a RAW agent :-)

Posted by KPSingh | Report as abusive
 

Umaripk:”Ganesh, before that happens, Pakistan will nuke India”

1. Nukes are not butterflies that you can release them on whomsoever you wanted. Pakistanis invoking the “so called threat” of nuclear use is a charade that does not cut ice with us. We had war with you in Kargil under the nuclear hangover and Army was confident it would contain the battle for spreading into other war zones even with use of Fighter Aircraft. Seven years after reforms and India was throughly moving in an unquestioned direction of progress and political leadership did not want the war to expand because the business leaders were concerened it affects our intersts who were just getting their wings.

2.The relevance of Nukes die the moment adversary also gets hold of them, the reason we got ourselves was not because of you but because of China. China had its utility until India went nuclear. Our posession of Nukes was never to threaten you since by the end of 1971 war, you were already cut down to size and Conventional weaponry was adequate to subdue. It is in our manic blind belief that you turn a new leaf led Pakistan to deceive us again and go even nasty with proxy war.

3. Nuclear weapons are only weapons of deterrence and not weapons of utility and our fear of your nukes arise due to the instable nature of your country in which, by being your most perceivably hated enemy, we have lot of stakes. Imagine a case if India were to transfer nuclear technology,nay, few nukes to Afghanistan. It sure your army generals would be wetting your pants, since Afghanistan is even more unstable. No we wont do it, because we are not China which is not responsible to anybody.

4. The more instable the country is the more nervous it gets and the more nervous it gets, the more it looks for tools to assert itself. Your calling of China was all weather friend without equal reciprocity on their side, you constant harping of nukes to counter reasonable arguments (funny really) makes you only look more fluttered with fear and is only a symptom of the states actual problem. You know what, on a terribly perverted note, even if you use on us. Its going to unite our country even more with religious, cultural and social faultlines getting blurred. You have seen it during kargil and you will see again. Nobody wants to break a country because it is physically weaker but everybody tries their hand if that country tries to destablize the entire region.

5. Believe if the push comes to shove and indeed some province of the Pakistan is to secede, your army would not use nukes against India (even hypothetically if we are the cause of your troubles) because we know the charecter of your army than Pakistani’s who are blinded with one sided love to your military dont see it. Pakistani Army is so indulged in material and worldly pleasures that they would not try something that stupid. Why wouldn’t they just continue the hate propoganda against India and status-quo rather than ending their great loot of your country. I hope mullahs wont take over your country by that time.

6.Remember Soviet nukes didn’t help it in avoid the disintegration of the state and it was political failure and imagination that undid the USSR not external interference. The rapidly growing population with little hope and low growth rates is the disaster waiting for you unless you correct it.

7.It is known woldwide that Instable nations attract terrorists, extra national characters and other miscreants. Once they enter and get entrenched and these terrorist organisation have strong disincentive to stabilize a state, since if it stabilizes they are the first to get arrested. And these organizations know if the country is instable (with no political structures) and has nukes, then no external power can threaten the country physically and the more emboldened they get and the more instability they create. It is not surprsing that Pakistan has become an epicentre of not only terrorism but also drug mafia and other syndicates (in any case they cannot rival the biggest mafia, the Army and I hope they wont).

8.Forget about the political leaders even the common man today do not speak of nukes that lightly and it says something about you. Understand if the country uses nukes unilaterally, it becomes completely isolated from International community and its citizens are hunted (on grounds of suspicio) anywhere they reside and anybody you thought were your friend (by the assosiation of faith or due to common geopolitical interests) would shy away from helping you. If you do not know the please read how nazis were hunted for two decades even after the world war ended even hunting in SouthAmerica and killing with mere suspicion. If you are Non Resident Pakistani, its going to get even more ugly. It also costs your economy.
And I may not sure if I have spoken too much to get into your head as somebody said you cannot digest so much knowledge by one swoop.

Posted by sensiblepatriot | Report as abusive
 

The US is watching both Iran and Pakistan. Iran is itching to go at Israel once its nukes and delivery systems get ready. Pakistan might do a desperate death choke act of trying to nuke India as a last resort suicide attempt. If Pakistan-US relations end abruptly and the war in Afghanistan faces a dead end, the US might change its agenda from war on terrorism to de-nuclearizing the two rogue nations, forcibly if it has to. Economy is in the tank. Jobs are disappearing. Politicians have to face their voters. There is nothing better than a couple of rogue nations with their fingers on the nuclear trigger. Within a year, if US cannot resolve its issues with Pakistan diplomatically, the next war will begin. Pakistan might do something stupid to draw India into a conflict and it might shoot itself in the foot as a result. After Mumbai attacks, the US and its allies have begun to side with India. The US would want to protect its assets in India at the same time. If Umair can itch so much to use the nukes, imagine the mindset of the radicalized personnel inside Pakistan’s military establishment and the non-state actors. Pakistan can no longer deceive others. It has to face the moment of truth very soon.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 
 

Some sane voices in Pakistan have begun to analyse the reasons why Bangladesh left the union: http://bit.ly/uNoi1G

Everything cannot be blamed on India. The same goes for Balochistan today. The Punjabi-dominated establishment is treating the Baloch exactly the way they treated the Bengalis decades ago, and they should not be surprised if the results are similar.

Threatening to nuke India for a domestic policy failure is just lame. It also shows an unwillingness to address problems and their real source.

Regards,
Ganesh Prasad

Posted by prasadgc | Report as abusive
 

ganesh: “Threatening to nuke India for a domestic policy failure is just lame. It also shows an unwillingness to address problems and their real source.”

The nuke thing is a reflex action, from what I observe. It has nothing to do with any reasoning. After Inshallah, the next word that comes automatically in their mouths is the “we’ll nuke you” phrase. It is basically to tell themselves that they are scared, but not scared. It is like a little boy telling himself to be brave while in the dark looking for mommy. The nuke word comes out automatically if anything is poked at an internal crisis by someone, especially by an Indian.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

Ganesh:
“Threatening to nuke India for a domestic policy failure is just lame. It also shows an unwillingness to address problems and their real source.”

-No one is denying a domestic policy failure in Baluchistan, I know more than you regarding the corrective actions being taken to sort it out and avoid a screw up. India can still exacerbate the situation in Baluchistan by supporting dissidents based in Kabul. What I am stating is that any 1971 style situation developing, Pakistan MUST nuke India. Simple. There should be no doubt about it in India. Keep away from Baluchistan is the best advice. It is another story if you want to play with fire. In 1971 had India not supported the Mukti Bahni, East Pakistan could have been saved. Today, there is no margin of error, you mess up and you get perished.

Posted by Umairpk | Report as abusive
 

Umairpk,

When dealing with people who have criminal minds, one is always careful, even if he is armed and well protected. The criminal has no accountability and therefore one can anticipate him to cause harm to others. Pakistan is being looked at from this perspective by most nations now. We have always known that Pakistan is a rogue state. We are not scared of you. We are being cautious. If criminals can be crippled, it helps a lot. Pakistan is approached from that standpoint. Your forefathers fought and got a nation for Muslims. But they did not know what to do with it. Experience shows that religion can never be a uniting force and East Pakistan clearly demonstrated that. Now Pashtuns and Balochis will demonstrate that too. You can pull the trigger on your nuke button as much as you want. We are all prepared for that scenario. It is only a matter of time before Pakistan itself engages in a suicide mission. But you cannot prevent your provinces from splintering off. At that time your nukes will end up in many hands and you might need the nukes to subdue your Islamic brothers in those provinces more than you will need against India. We will help them if we see an opportunity. Who wants to have criminal thugs next door? Unfortunately your country has taken that path. It wants easy way out of things without having to work and earn for itself. It has made more enemies than before. Thump your chest as much as you want. Your nukes won’t make a dent. It might end up uniting us even more. Mumbai attacks have already done that. If you want to weaken India, uniting us will not help. But come forward with your nukes. No one is losing sleep over it here.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

KPsingh:
Whatever, all I know is one more mischief in Baluchistan and India gets nuked. Try it.

Posted by Umairpk | Report as abusive
 

Umairpk: “all I know is one more mischief in Baluchistan and India gets nuked. Try it”

We can. But why waste one’s energy when you are digging your own grave?

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

Umairpk: “No one in Pakistan gives a f*** about it”

Why would sh*t feel bad about itself?

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

Have the world not seen enough from the USA killing machine? Must the Indians and Pakistan killing machines demonstrate the power of their killing machines? Prudene and vernunft is what the two emotional neighbours need? Here are some of the suggestions;

. First make a Nation out of the diverse people who live in your lands.
. Decolonise your armies and make them true National Armies, which refuses illegal orders and do not kill its citizens but defend them against foreign intruders.

. Educate, educate and educate your people and reform national institutions.

. Eradicate poverty in the land by motivating the people of the land to work hard and work hard and work honestly.

Your lands are the future civilisations and need special attention; the USA is becoming softer in manufacturing and its economy now rest on the casino capitalism! Real economy has left them and relying on export of weaponry is not enough to make them any longer the leader of the west? Save your emotions since the alternative is asuicide for yours and the people of the world!

Rex Minor

Posted by pakistan | Report as abusive
 

PS
A merry xmas and a good start in the new year!

Posted by pakistan | Report as abusive
 

A remarkable article by cyril almeida.
http://www.dawn.com/2011/12/23/for-whom- the-bell-tolls.html

Posted by sensiblepatriot | Report as abusive
 

“all I know is one more mischief in Baluchistan and India gets nuked. Try it.” Posted by Umairpk

You don’t know diddly squat, man! Your establishment has been screaming for years now, that India has been creating mischief in Baluchistan & other pakistani provinces. So, what the heck are your guys waiting for? There’s a lot of difference in having a big mouth & big balls. To others, your empty threats are nothing but hilarious mouse-farts.

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

Mortal
you too f*** off.

Posted by Umairpk | Report as abusive
 

@Umair

I understand, truth certainly hurts sometimes. My sympathies!

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

LOL. Umair talks about nuking India like he is the COAS himself. It’s nonsense. Nobody knows Pakistan’s nuclear redlines. Least of all some random internet poster named Umair.

Pakistan is not going to nuke anybody. Under what scenario is it even possible? Let’s take a look at some here:

1) Balochistan breaks out into full blown insurgency and some Indian involvement is found. Let’s say this happens (although it’s implausible given the size of the Balochi population), there would still be no credible excuse for Pakistan to nuke anybody. Or by Umair’s logic, India or the US would have every right to turn Lahore or Islamabad or Karachi into a glass parking lot for every Pakistan-linked terrorist attack.

2) India conducts air strikes or even limited military incursions into Pakistan in response to a terror attack. Again. No excuse. With such a massive conventional army, the world would not tolerate any slight incursion as an excuse for nuclear retaliation. Least of all when the Indian attack is in response to a Pakistan-originated terror attack. And this scenario excludes the high likelihood of foreign nationals also being targetted, drawing in US, UK, European involvement as well.

All that is setting aside the fact that most Pakistanis aren’t as moronic or as suicidal as some of the posters here. That Umair talks so casually about employing nukes, shows that he’s utterly ignorant on the topic of military affairs. I suggest that other posters start treating his posts on nuclear escalation with same credibility most of us accord to Rex Minor and his routine warnings for the imminent (in the next 5 minutes) demise of the USA.

You can save this forum for serious discussion or start trading yelps and squeals with monkeys who have a limited knowledge base and intellect. Your choice.

Posted by True.North. | Report as abusive
 

This bandit state is caught between a rock and a hard place. It has to grow up and end its delusional confrontation with India. India’s economy grows by leaps and bounds while Pakistan remains mired in the stone age. In the meanwhile any idea it can take on the United
States is retarded at best, and should it even attempt to use nuclear weapons, it will be hammered into ashes. In short grow up, end ties to trouble making terrorists, and whack everybody in the ISI, the centerpiece of state sponsored terrorism. Or else another country will do it for them and the poor people will be more miserable than ever.

Posted by AlexanderBoyle | Report as abusive
 

I wonder if the leader of afganistan read the news today it seems that the taliban in pakistan killed 14 (fourteen) pakistan soldiers and then cut off their heads and planted them in the center of town
I quess it’s alright for them to due it to themselves animals will alway’s be animals Mr. Kazahhki or whatever you call yourselves your whole country isnot WORTH ONE AMERICAN LIFE YOU UNGRATFULL BASTSRD

Posted by americaMM | Report as abusive
 

Post Your Comment

We welcome comments that advance the story through relevant opinion, anecdotes, links and data. If you see a comment that you believe is irrelevant or inappropriate, you can flag it to our editors by using the report abuse links. Views expressed in the comments do not represent those of Reuters. For more information on our comment policy, see http://blogs.reuters.com/fulldisclosure/2010/09/27/toward-a-more-thoughtful-conversation-on-stories/
  •