Obama says pointed abortion query “above his pay grade”
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DALLAS – U.S. Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama side-stepped a pointed query about abortion on Saturday by “mega-pastor” Rick Warren during a televised forum.
Asked at what point a baby gets “human rights,” Obama, who strongly supports abortion rights, said: “… whether you’re looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity … is above my pay grade.”
He went on to reiterate his view that it was important to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies.
Republican presidential candidate John McCain, who followed Obama onto the stage of the nationally televised event, was more blunt and more emphatic.
He said a baby’s human rights began “at the moment of conception … I have a 25-year pro-life record.”
Both candidates were vying for the “faith vote,” in particular the one in four U.S. adults who count themselves as evangelical.
Obama took questions first from Warren and McCain followed. The two shared the stage together briefly.
Some centrist evangelicals have said they appreciate moves by the Democratic Party to “soften” the edges of its pro-choice stand by stressing the need to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies and abortions — and by also working harder in areas like adoption.
But for many conservative evangelicals — a key part of the evangelical base — life begins at conception and the argument ends there.
The issue remains one of the most divisive and partisan in America — as Obama and McCain highlighted on Warren’s stage.
(Additional reporting by Jeff Mason)
(Photo credit: REUTERS/Rebecca Cook, Files, USA)
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Read the conservatives responses then read the lib responses. Now you see why I’m a conservative and always will be. Obama, you are a joke. You blew it. About time people see who you really are. Get a clue libs.
Since this discussion i am much more comfortable voting for McCain. His direct answers to the questions were very refreshing. Obama danced around the questions and really answered very few of them. The commentators say his answers were more “nuanced” I think that means non-specific! Pro life vs prochoice. I think women should have the right to choose NOT TO GET PREGNANT if they don’t want a child. Once a woman is pregnant there is another person to be considered. The baby would likely choose to live. Abortion is a disgrace and a shame to every American.
While we may not know exactly when life begins, I believe that when you discover you are pregnant, its a life already. Yeah people make mistakes, but you have to be accountable. It may be your body, but its ALSO another life too. Because another life is inside your body doesn’t mean you have a right to kill it.
People claim that those who believe in capital punishment and are also pro-life are hypocrites.
I believe that a fetus is innocent. It did nothing wrong. The fetus did not make a wrong choice by taking another’s life. The fetus did not have a choice. The fetus did not choose evil.
Yeah, it’s hard to look centrist on abortion when you were against a bill preventing infanticide in the Illinois state legislature.
I have a question for Obama.
Would you consider abortion in the following four situations?
1. There’s a preacher and his wife who are very, very poor. They already have 14 children. Now she finds out she’s pregnant with their 15th! They’re living in tremendous poverty. Considering their poverty and the excessive world population, would you recommend she get an abortion?
2. The father is sick with sniffles, the mother has TB. They have four children. The first child is blind, the second is dead. The third child is deaf, the fourth has TB. She finds she’s pregnant again. Given the extreme situation, would you consider recommending abortion?
3. A white man raped a 13-year-old black girl and she became pregnant. If you were her parents, would you consider recommending abortion?
4. A teenage girl is pregnant. She’s not married. Her fiance is not the father of the baby, and he’s very upset. Would you consider recommending abortion?
If you would have recommended abortion in any of these situations, you should know that…
In the first case, you recommended killing John Wesley, one of the great evangelists of the 19th century.
In the second case, you recommended killing Ludwig Von Beethoven, one of the most famous musical composers of all time. (He also became deaf at an early age).
In the third case, you recommended killing Ethel Waters, one of the nation’s leading gospel singers.
In the fourth case, you have just recommended killing Jesus Christ.
How many wonderful people have we already killed?
Oh the poor unborn babies. Can we please fix some of societies problems before we get to them? What if we just aborted all future abortionist, after all they aren’t against abortion, problem solved!
Answer me this: what does it matter? Neither candidate will be able to change the law as it stands. And if it was illegal it would happen anyways because the cause wouldn’t have gone away. The point is kinda mute. I realize it seems tied with morality, but it is actually opinion. Even the bible doesn’t mention this and that is supposed to be your moral source.
Obama does not hate babies and advocate murder for fun. That is ridiculous, stop arguing ridiculous points. Obama was completely rational to advocate reducing the causes of abortion, and not advocate the impossible task of just ending abortion now in 2008. For McCain life starts at conception, and ends when he drops a bomb on some gooks head. It is the black and whiteness of his opinions that worries me, yet encourages you. Being waffly on this subject actually represents Americas waffly opinion better eh?
Above his pay grade, he’s talking about God folks, he’s saying he isn’t god and has no authority to really say. You anti abortionist are so easily drawn in by this one, you do realize that that leaves you open to people taking advantage of you. Just reading these responses i can see it blinds you. No joke.
To Andrew Austin…in regards to your comment that the state is forcing women to have babies…NO ONE is forcing these women to get pregnant. THEY are choosing to not use protection. Pregnancy can be prevented and there are plenty of places to get contriception for free if you cannot afford it. Since THEY choose not to prevent it, than they have to live with the consequences. An innocent child with a functioning brain and beating heart should not have to pay for the stupidity of its mother!
Obama, you screwed up! You thought your cute canned answer about when LIFE begins would endear you to us by referring to God as being above your pay grade. But you weren’t asked about human LIFE, you were asked about human RIGHTS, and that is exactly in your pay grade. Tell us, if you can, where you set this legal demarcation..or can you not handle your job?
Obama’s reasoning is flawed. If you don’t know when conception begins, then the reasonable moral thing to do is err on the side of caution: don’t abort the life. His type of reasoning is only an effort to justify what he and his followers on this issue want personally.
The argument goes both ways. There are appropriate health reasons why an abortiion may be necessary and the right thing to do. The issues to me are responsibility and accountability. You cannot enforce morality on a people as a whole. Asking the government to effectively do that is impossible so it is a no win for either candidate. It is easy for someone to say “no abortions period” but the reality is that even if you pass the strictest laws in the world you cannot enforce this. Reasonable thinking people will realize that the many unique circumstances and issues with such things as abortion are limitless. To say that someone is a pro abortionist because they agree that in certain circumstances an abortion is warranted is rediculous. The correct answer is “working to limit abortions”. That is the right answer. How that is done is not easy based upon what I said above. I think educated people understand the need to reduce abortions and increase education. The morale case is with the family and the morale fortitude of the nation. If you want to affect such things, then pass laws that restrict pornagraphy, violent movies, get rid of strip clubs so young women can’ work in that environment, stop the creation of violence in games, improve restictions on internet porn and fine porn sites or tax them to death. You know it is so easy to ask a president to do something about abortion but the reality is that no matter how many judges you elect or what their stand is and no matter how many laws that are passed, it is not going to stop this immoral irresponsible behavior where it is inappropriate. Moral fiber is something that cannot be legistated. So when you look to elect the next president think about that. Saying I am against all abortions and so forth doesn’t really mean anything. I think most adults in this country that are honest would agree abortion is not wise and inappropriate in most cases. The govenment does have a responsibility to the people as a whole and our way of life and if the government can pass laws that improves our moral fiber or make it difficult for the people to screw up their lives by spending their money on cigerettes, alcohol, strip clubs, pornagraph, violent games in gaming systems, inappropriate music and movies, then that is what they need to do and if doing so violates the constituion then tax these things so high nobody can afford them. Now if you do that, then you will see decreases in abortions because people will have to choose a more moral way of hopefully spending their time and money.
“For the state to force women to have babies represents tyranny against which Americans should fight and die…”
That would, indeed, be tyranny. However, the state does not force them to have babies. They conceive them of their own free will 99.9% of the time (yes, rape and incest are exceptions).
What the State does need to do is protect the natural rights of those who are unable to do so on their own. That is the purpose of the State. And, the most basic natural right is life.
The fact is, Obama killed legislation that would have made it illegal to deny medical care to babies that had already been born, if those babies had been targeted for abortion before hand. Think about that. There is no impact on the mother’s body at that point. All arguments about her right to her body are moot. And, he still killed this legislation.
Even Barbara Boxer voted for this bill at the national level. The senate passed it without a single nay vote. And, Obama killed it repeatedly in the Illonois state legislature.
That’s murder.
I’m a mostly pro-choice Libertarian. I don’t think the Federal government should be taking stances on this issue. But, Obama’s position on this is disturbing and indicative of a character so weak as to not be fit for the highest office in the land.
you notice how Obama responses always seemed like a painful birth? The answers would come out halting, a little at a time, and changing form throughout. His head was always cocked and he seemed in pain every single time. Not quite sure of where he himself stood on the responses forcefed to him by his handlers, kind of making up the spin as he went along.
In contrast, McCain nailed every single response with crisp answers exploding with conviction and strength.
Indeed, who looked more prepared to lead the USA last nite?
If Obama really knew Jesus, that would be an easy answer for him. There’s no grey area about abortion.
Obama’s ‘above my paygrade’ response is equivalent to voting ‘Present’ in the Illinois state senate. He failed to engage because he has no substance from which to draw.
Obama needs to realize failing to engage is not an option when the responsibility for American lives requires real decisions and the courage to stand by those decisions.
How absurd that people still believe the Republicans and don’t see through their bait and switch tactics: every time an election comes around, they haul out their claims about being against abortion and honoring life and claim that their opponents are baby killers. In reality, if elected, they do nothing to either prevent unwanted pregnancies or reduce abortions. They instead lie to start wars that kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people, including children and pregnant women.
They also avoid the real problems with any abortion laws: If all abortions, except those for victims of rape, were made illegal, there would be thousands of illegal abortions each year. An entirely new underground industry will spring up, without the oversight of the legitimate medical community, and many young, frightened, ashamed girls will become victims. The situation would be similar to that with the “war on drugs.” Making something that people want illegal does not stop it. It makes it more expensive and more dangerous.
Simply put, McCain belongs to the party that has repeated deceived the public and continues to oversimplify complex problems.
For those who are too stupid to read nuances, “above his paygrade” means that NO ONE knows – only God!
DUH.
Obama’s answers are nuanced. These things aren’t easy. Regular people who aren’t fundamentalists feel they are multifaceted too. I’m pro-choice, but yet would never abort my own baby. It’d feel wrong to me. I don’t think that a single cell has “human rights” like McCain does.
The right to life is certainly NOT tyranny! I was born to a 17 year old unwed mother, and adopted by wonderful parents that couldn’t have children. Thanks to the fact that abortion was illegal in 1947, I was given the gift of life!!! I’m sure my 4 children and 3 grandchildren are also grateful! I thank God that our government upheld moral values THEN and disallowed this abomination of aborting one’s children. It all comes down to moral responsibility for oneself. If you don’t want children, abstain or use birth control, period! If a mistake is made, think beyond your immediate convenience and allow someone who can’t conceive the joy of raising a baby. All it will cost you is a little time and compassion.
Obama didn’t speak thoughtfully and philosophically he skirted the issues- every issue. When asked “when does life begin” he said it was above his pay grade. Well it is not above the President of the United States of America’s pay grade. A leader leads. Every “hot button” issue was skirted- and anyone that thinks a leader can skirt an issue when an ICBM is coming in on Washington DC or any other American city- has no idea what a leader is. We are the only nation in history that came to the aid of and insured the freedom of- every nation in the world. France, England, Poland, you name em’ we freed them. Anyone that wants to be President of the United States of America and doesn’t realize that this is the greatest nation that ever existed- doesn’t have a clue- and has no business seeking that great and honorable office.
Oh and SW from Missouri, with your “chicken or the egg” argument. God does not force people to do drugs or live risky lifestyles either- but they still have miscarriages or babies born with defects. No God gave you free will to ruin your life if you choose. I think your are the hypocrite if you can not take responsibility for your own actions.
GOD has a paygrade above the president.
Just pathetic. Both candidates pandering to the Christian base is just sickening. Religion has absolutely no place in politics. Both should be ashamed for such public boot-licking.
Everytime A democrat opens his mouth ,something dumb comes out, HA HA , keep it up” DEMS” Obama is right up there at the top!!! OUT OF THE MOUTHS OF BABES COMES FORTH (nothing) I love it!!!!
While neither an ardent Obama or McCain supporter at this time, I feel that OBAMA IS TAKING A LOT MORE HEAT THAN NECESSARY. Of course that was a political blunder on his part to say it was above his pay grade, but one can’t criticize him from being honest. He told us in his opening sentence, if i may repeat his words, that “whether you look at it from a theological perspective or scientific perspective with such specificity that such question is above my pay grade.” Well obviously he is saying scientifically or theologically that there is no way for him to know for sure at what point it can be called human. I don’t think any of us know FOR SURE. Of course from a theological perspective it is at the moment of conception. And scientifically there is no hard proof of that being true. Obama’s answer was honest, but was not a good political answer as McCain’s was. Let’s not forget that Obama did continue on with his answer and did take a stance. He supported pro-choice, and I’d like to add if you criticize and hate Obama for being pro-choice (which i’ve seen from many of the comments above) then you have to at the same time hate 55% of Americans who opted for pro-choice.
Also, I hope many of you that are commenting above have watched the clip, because any one can tell when Obama jokes, but his demeanor showed he was giving an open and honest opinion.
I also want to add I felt both were very strong last night, McCain giving much more upfront and straight answers, but that political blunder on Obama’s part I knew for sure would be taken to the extreme as it has.
Ok, right. McCain is pro-life and pro-babies. But your 18-year old babies can go fight meaningless wars for him and come back in a coffin, or dismembered or crippled.
McCain is pro-war, any war. That makes him bad news for me. I don’t want an 80-yr old president.
What he said was that only God knows when life actually begins.
And, the question is irrelevant if you believe that a woman\’s right to choose trumps that.
John McCain thinks that the moment a sperm hits an egg there are human rights attached. What an idiot. A single cell has rights? Most of the time they don\’t even survive.
This will be Obama’s undoing…..if you can’t have the highest respect for a life growing in a mother’s womb, how could you possibly respect others?? As columnists have noted, the Obama’s are even for late-term abortion, where “the fetus is stabbed repeatedly in the head with scissors and the brains sucked out to ease the passage to the trash can.” Don’t believe it?? See articles by Buchanan et al. Yes, Michelle is in favor of that type of murder. Sign me, no longer such a big fan of B.O.
My questions is what to do with the babies once they are born?
These commenters seem to be pro-life until the babies are born, please read the stat below:
According to the Adoption Institute as of 1999 there are 581,000 children in foster care in the United States.
Please actually watch the entire forum before making a comment on this one quote which is severely out of context, in what is ultimately a good answer to the question.
“Above my pay grade”… I thought that was Obama’s strongest line. Do pro-lifer’s really want presidents dictating that issue? He’s saying that there are far more astute minds dedicated to this. While important to a lot of folks, unwanted pregnancies are a sticky, horrible, gray issue that will not be solved by any one man.
I saw BO run away from something he truly believes in: abortion
THE BIGGEST LIE of the night still isn’t being reported.
Obama was asked to name a time when he reached across the aisle to work with others. He named the ethics / campaign finance bill he worked on with McCain.
Yes, he worked on the bill. But once it got to the floor, Obama CAVED in to democratic party pressures — and actually voted AGAINST the bill he helped craft.
For all you dems out there, please note that you are NOT voting for President Obama. You are voting for President Pelosi / Reid. Obama ALWAYS toes the party line.
reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies means more abortions, Obama. We are not stupid. Or…judging from the polls, maybe we are.
Ken, I did not see pres. Bush participating last night, DUH?
Dear Christians,
Murder is a legal term for unlawful killing. Abortion is legal, therefore does not fit the definition of “murder.”
Evolved1
The fact is this: Everyone is saying that Obama gave “thoughtful, nuanced” answers, when in fact he was simply dodging.
At least McCain had the guts to come out and say that “I’m pro-life, and I’ll support pro-life policies and appoint pro-life judges.”
We all KNOW Obama is on the opposite side of that coin: He’s pro-choice, and he will support pro-choice policies and judges. We all know that 100%. Did he have the guts to actually say it out loud? No. He did is little “nuance” tap dance, trying to disguise who he really is, and avoid giving a sound bite that won’t play well with the evangelicals he was trying so hard to court.
No spine. He’s not another JFK. He’s another Jimmy Carter.
How come when he’s preaching to black fathers he says “your responsibility doesn’t end at conception” but when he’s pandering to the pro-abortion crowd all of the sudden he doesn’t know when life begins?? Wake up people !!
Those of you who are flaming McCain need to realize that his stance means that your state will get to vote for whether or not your citizens have a right to abortion. So, California can be California, Texas can be Texas, and so on.
Obama’s way means that we all life with the left’s agenda.
I am 100% pro-life and will vote for and support John McCain. But I think a number of poster misunderstand Obama\’s pay grade reference. His answer was for \”theological\” or \”scientific\” perspectives. Neither He, nor Sen. McCain or Pres. Bush are scientists or theologians. Its obvious that in his answer he was simply being humble in stating that he was neither a scientist or theologian.
By the way, I am not sure how any person of faith could assume that being president is the \”highest pay grade\”.
I have not been a big McCain supporter, but I truly believe he upstaged Obama during this program. I noted that one poster stated that he knew that both candidates were given the questions in advance…if that is true, then Obama really should have looked them over and decided on some straight-up answers. He looked quite lame.
As for the life issue, it is clear that when egg and sperm meet the woman isn’t growing an eggplant in her womb. To say that it was “above his pay grade” was, again, LAME. Obama’s history notes that he is more than pro-choice-he’s willing to allow babies who survive abortions to die rather than give them medical attention. If the mother’s don’t want them, then allow them to be raised by someone else. Do something about improving adoption in this country. BTW, I watched both CNN and Fox’s news reviews of this issue. BOTH pointed out that the number of abortions are at their lowest levels since the 1970′s.
One canidate did not hesitate and gave straight forward answers and the other canidate answered in Rev. Jackson style! BREATH TAKING DIFFERENCE!!!
Though I did not see all of the forum I did see this part. Barak Obama\’s answer was simply a side step. He knows that Evangelical Christians, & others who believe in the authority of the scripture, know that abortion is against God\’s will. Interestingly this has been a Christian stance since the 1st century. It is NOT a recent change or approach. The Didache (google it) written in the 1st century to summarize the basics of the faith, covers both abortion & infanticide which the pagan world practiced regularly. Christians were not to be practice these as they were contrary to God\’s will & word. So anyone claiming to be a Christian must be against abortions or else they have rejected the faith passed on to us from the 1st apostles. It does not matter if you are catholic, evangelical or any other designation, if you are Christian you are to not support abortion.
Both candidates are horrible.
Obama made a huge mistake with the paygrade answer, that’s really weak and undeserving of the post he’s running for.
McCain panders to the stupid and ignorant who just want a quick answer they can relate to.
On the positive side Obama did reveal himself a little more and went personal where “My Friends” McCain pushed his stupid drilling and war agenda.
Overall, I am not impressed at all by either of those two.
It’s sad that Obama quotes the bible — SPECIFICALLY the verse, “That which you do to the least you do unto me,” and then say it’s okay to let aborted babies die if they happen to survive the abortion.
Does he not see the hypocrisy?
Isn’t it sad that Presidential candidates now have to answer questions that a celebrity pastor asks them. The president should not choose whether women are allowed to have abortions or not that should be fought on the local and state levels. Picking a president for their religious beliefs(which is what this Rick Warren crap is all about), is just as sophomoric and insane as voting for one because of their race. Vote or don’t vote for a president because of their beliefs in the constitution, civil liberties, or capitalism thats what effects all of us and are the things that a president has some control of. This puppet show with Rick Warren though is just a sad and extremely lame way to appeal to the masses of religious voters who make their decisions based on a book written thousands of years ago by man.
The state is not forcing women to get pregnant, are they?. Women should think once or twice about using the myriad of options, some that even free and easily accessible to NOT GET KNOCKED UP IN THE FIRST PLACE! Don’t give me all the tired excuses, hormones, it just happened, blah, blah, blah, etc. What level of person responsibility do liberal activists what to cede to the Feds next? What’s for lunch? OH I KNOW! You Americans can’t drive cars anymore, it’s BAD for “Mother Earth”
Weak answer(at best) by Obama. Simply put, it’s bad law. No one should have a “constitutional right” to abortion. Leave it to the states, PERIOD! It’s terrible law and has no place as a “right”.
I like both candidates. Pastor Warren’s format was great.!
When I watched Senator Obama’s respnses they seemed very articualte..but maybe too much “looking at this way, and then that way”..like an everything is Ok attitude..his abortion answer about “pay grade” was honest and told the story about where is “coming from”. Equivocation is not good for a President..maybe OK for court room lawyer talk.
Senator McCain came across as my preference now. His answers were very clear, with very little equivocation. I really liked the “stories” he used to make his points. He seems much more like one who has the life excerience to be a leader make the decisons needed to be our President.
Abortion is precisely the opposite the position of the first poster. We should fight and die for the right of any person to be murdered for the sake of convenience. Abortion, and not the right to murder, is what is worth fighting for. I guess they never read George Washington’s address that he fights for the freedoms of the the living men and women, and the unborn in the womb’s of their mothers. Imagine Washington seeing this America, he wouldn’t have fought at all.
Irrespective of my own stance, to say that an issue like abortion is above anyone’s pay grade and they claim they want to run the largest country in the world means he is a liar. His pro-murder stance is well-known and he’s pretending he doesn’t know he wants the right to murder. And no, I don’t like McCain either.
To refute another ignorant poster, there was one answer Obama could have gave to make pro-life people happy: defend human life from conception to natural death.
Then at who’s pay grade is that decision made? That should have been the follow up question.
You are willing to make life/death political decision, but you have no core belief to make that decision.
I watched this full thing and I must say John Sidney McCain did much better then Barack Hussein Obama. McCain didn’t dance around any of the questions. He didn’t seem to care how many people had the same views as him. He just answered the question based on his beliefs and knowledge. Obama on the other hand did a dance on every tough question to try to alienate as few people as possible. He tried to play both sides on abortion instead of answering the question. Oh and he never answered the question when does a fetus have basic human rights? If he was for Late term abortions he could have said at birth he just didn’t want to commit to an answer.
david2323 said, “Nothing Obama could have said would have been acceptable to pro-lifers.”
Have you considered the opposite: “Nothing McCain could have said would have been acceptible to pro-choicers?”
The fact is this: Being pro-abortion and pro-life are both legitimate political stances. John McCain was honest enough to stand up and clarify his stance, in no uncertain terms, to the American people.
Obama, on the other hand, didn’t have the spine to do this. Instead, he tried to obscure his stance. The “pay grade” will haunt him in commercials during his own convention next week, I predict. But even worse, what does “encourage less abortions” mean? Condoms in schools? Bringing back Jocelyn Elders to teach “mahsturbation” in schools?
Oh…plus, Obama lied. Abortions HAVE gone down in the past 8 years. But I guess the facts weren’t convenient.