Obama says pointed abortion query “above his pay grade”
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DALLAS – U.S. Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama side-stepped a pointed query about abortion on Saturday by “mega-pastor” Rick Warren during a televised forum.
Asked at what point a baby gets “human rights,” Obama, who strongly supports abortion rights, said: “… whether you’re looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity … is above my pay grade.”
He went on to reiterate his view that it was important to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies.
Republican presidential candidate John McCain, who followed Obama onto the stage of the nationally televised event, was more blunt and more emphatic.
He said a baby’s human rights began “at the moment of conception … I have a 25-year pro-life record.”
Both candidates were vying for the “faith vote,” in particular the one in four U.S. adults who count themselves as evangelical.
Obama took questions first from Warren and McCain followed. The two shared the stage together briefly.
Some centrist evangelicals have said they appreciate moves by the Democratic Party to “soften” the edges of its pro-choice stand by stressing the need to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies and abortions — and by also working harder in areas like adoption.
But for many conservative evangelicals — a key part of the evangelical base — life begins at conception and the argument ends there.
The issue remains one of the most divisive and partisan in America — as Obama and McCain highlighted on Warren’s stage.
(Additional reporting by Jeff Mason)
(Photo credit: REUTERS/Rebecca Cook, Files, USA)
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L.Shock you are completely wrong – he was not saying it was for God to decide. He said clearly “theological or scientific” was above his paygrade.
What he is saying is that he doesn’t have the backbone to actually follow through and articulate his own previously published opinions.
He doesn’t get paid enough to answer that question? Who gave him that line? That’s about the worst thing he could have said. I’ve had employees who have told me something similar. . . needless to say, they don’t work for me anymore. Once again the democrats provide great material to the Republicans. Don’t think we won’t see that line in a commercial or two. Just give em enough rope.
I don’t like McCain, but at least he has the cajones to protect all American life — militarily or otherwise.
Yes, it really doesn’t matter if life begins at fertilization. We should be able to kill 12 year-olds whenever we want to – wait we can’t do that? But if life doesn’t begin at fertilization, when does it begin?
The nonsense from Andrew and the pro-abort side that it doesn’t matter when life begins MEANS we can kill anyone we don’t deem a human being. That isn’t freedom, Andrew, that’s tyranny. Science, not my religion, says that anything that reproduces sexually (like humans) begins life at fertilization. Period. Disagree with it morally but you cannot argue against the science.
And by the way, David Sonders, how many Tibetan refugees have you helped? If not, you can’t oppose Communist Chinese oppression in Tibet either. How many slaves have you freed from Darfur? How about sex slaves in Thailand? None? Well you can’t oppose those either.
I don’t need to adopt babies to know that they shouldn’t be ripped apart in their mothers’ wombs in the name of “choice”! Why can’t pro-choicers ever come up with anything that makes sense?
If men got pregnant, this wouldn’t even be an issue. Abortions would be offered on every street corner, no questions asked. This is a woman’s decision and she should have a CHOICE. Also, education about contraception should also be an option, as opposed to the fear of sex “abstinence” agenda that the conservatives push. 40 million abortions a year proves people need to be educated about contraception, not kept in the dark. Thank you conservatives for keeping America in the dark ages.
When the scripture of Jesus slithered out of his mouth, “When you do for the least of my bretheran, you do it to me” I cringed. Who more is the ‘least’ in our society than the pre-born? How could he use that scripture and then vote and support Planned Parenthood to kill babies not only up to delivery, but actually after the child is born? …. May God have mercy on his soul…
Andrew Austin has no redeeming personality!
Since people still can’t seem to understand I will repeat myself.
FOR ALL THE PEOPLE THAT DON’T UNDERSTAND ……………………..WHEN OBAMA SAID IT WAS ABOVE HIS PAY GRADE……………….THAT WAS A FIGURE OF SPEECH WHICH MEANT………………AS FAR AS ABORTION FROM A MORAL STAND POINT AND WHEN LIFE TRULY BEGINS, THAT IS FOR GOD TO JUDGE…………….. IT IS A FIGURE OF SPEECH, HE’S SAYING THAT I CAN NOT JUDGE WHETHER A WOMAN HAVING AN ABORTION IS RIGHT OR WRONG ……………..ONLY GOD CAN JUDGE HER……………SERIOUS PEOPLE YOU GUYS TAKE EVERYTHING SOOOOOOOOOOOO LITERAL. I HONESTLY THINK THATS WHY A LOT OF PEOPLE DON’T LIKE HIM BECAUSE THEY DON’T UNDERSTAND HIM. HE ACTUALLY TRIES TO EXPLAIN SOMETHING TO PEOPLE FROM A REAL STAND POINT BUT WE ARE ALL STILL SO DELUDED FROM LISTENING TO BS ALL THESE YEARS THAT WE DON’T UNDERSTAND SOMEONE WHEN THEY ARE TRYING TO BE HONEST AND FORTHRIGHT.
You can’t be Catholic and Pro-Choice.
yes there is evil in the world and BHO is the face of it.
1.3 million babies killed a year and obama wants to dodge the issue so he can get votes. pathetic.
I’m surprised that no one here seemed to understand what Obama meant by “above my pay grade”. He was referring to God.
Someone wrote: “OK to send a man to die for a pointless war
OK to force unwilling women into motherhood…”
Right. And those same PRO-LIFE fanatics who INSIST on those babies being born to women who cannot care for them will later on INSIST on the DEATH PENALTY for those unfortunate children-now-grown-into-adult-criminals.
Talk about hypocrisy!
Someone wrote (in a sardonic way): “OK to send a man to die for a pointless war;
OK to force unwilling women into motherhood…”
Right.
And those same PRO-LIFE fanatics who INSIST on those babies being born to women who cannot care for them will later on INSIST on the DEATH PENALTY for those unfortunate children-now-grown-into-adult-criminals.
Talk about hypocrisy! Sickening!
People should stay out of other women’s choices (and wombs) and let women choose for themselves.
Some say fetus others say baby, some say choice others say killing the baby. Those are fundamental differences without a coming together; there is no middle ground and a hard decision must be made. How can it be beyond the President’s pay grade?
Re- August 16th, 2008
10:41 pm GMT
How the Catholics can overwhelmingly vote for Democrat pro-choice candidates is perplexing. I thought Catholics were pro-life.
- Posted by Jack Allen
It’s called ‘Hypocrisy
Same thing applies when Republicans who pretend to be the more God fearing of your 2 party’s – are always the first ones to rush off to war – ignoring the “Thou shalt not kill” commandment.
When one gets right down to it – Practically EVERYTHING about this earth has to do with hypocrisy.
The Truth
This wasn’t even a tough question. Your conviction on this subject is either pro-choice or pro-life–nothing else. The fact that he couldn’t answer this simple question shows what a wuss he is. Is a 3 am phone call regarding Iran above his paygrade? Every prez election has it’s comment that will go down in history. This will be ’08s moment. I guess he just told us that $400,000/year isn’t worth standing by your convictions. I want a prez that will do what he feels/knows is right, even if I don’t always agree with it. You gotta give Bush credit for this one…he does what he feels like and tells the rest of the world to go to hell.
I am sadly shocked that for some people it doesn’t matter when life begins or ends for a baby. Life begins on the onset of a seed. In that seed awaits its time to grow, flourish and live. The United States was founded on Godly principles, one being “thou shall not kill.” Instead of trying to figure out who should be in charge of taking the life of another I believe we should focus on why young girls are having sex so early. Why is pornography and child molestation going on with mostly everyone turning away from the Truth.
The United States is supposed to be the home of the brave and the land of the free. Are we really a brave nation anymore? We can’t even stand up for our children and their rights, how in the world are we supposed to stand up for an unborn child rights. The government needs to govern. The people need to repent and ask God’s forgiveness and courage to stand up for what is right, for what is just.
We are a nation medicated on thousands of drugs pushed by the pharmaceutical companies unaware of the invasion of the enemy and the sleeping of our nation. Please fellow brothers and sisters wake up. Wake up and fight for what this country was started on. Moral character, honesty, brotherly love, hope, peace and the pursuit of happiness. Please ask yourself how many Americans do you know that are happy? How many are joyous? How many are free? Father God forgive us for we have sinned. Have mercy on us in Jesus Christ name I pray. Amen
about the comment “For the state to force women to have babies represents tyranny against which Americans should fight and die. Better to sacrifice the fetus for the sake of human freedom than kill grown men with names and personalities.” is bizarre. Killing babies has nothing to do with freedom. You don’t have the freedom to kill a person who’s 1 minute old or 90 years old. Why is it okay to kill an innocent unborn baby. What a stirring battle cry “Fight for the freedom to kill unborn innocent babies.”
Sorry JR, but your post is steeped in partisan rhetoric and lacks any sense of coherency or logic…but then such is the pro-abortion (aka supposed “pro-choice”) position in general.
“Choice” has no value judgment to it. The right to choose to do something does not validate the choice itself. I have the choice to beat an irritating neighbor over the head with a frying pan…but that doesn’t make it right…nor is it the best or even the only solution to my “irritating neighbor” dilemma.
As for the issue of when life begins…a real stickler for Senator O and best to be avoided at all cost (but it tripped him up pretty good at Saddleback). Why? Because the answer doesn’t require a higher paygrade…only common sense…and to go there, he’d expose the abortion industry to be the soulless entity it truly is.
Quite simply, one does not become more human with age. I am not more human at 35 than I was at 1 minute old. Being an adult does not make me more human than I was as a toddler or infant or, yes, even a fetus, which is just another stage of human development. So why then would my classification as a human being lose its validity prior to infancy? What magical event took place that turned me into someone worthy of acknowledgment as a person?
I ask you, JR, when did you become a human being?
You know, I daresay even if I got the chance to ask Senator Obama that question directly, I would more than likely receive no answer beyond the standard equivocating non-answer gobbledygook we’ve come to expect from Mr. Hope N. Change.
If the Government isn’t forcing women to have sex, it’s not forcing them to have babies. It is society that says when a woman choooooses to have a baby, that she see it though. If I can terminate my pregnancy at 8 or 9 months, why not 10 or 11? It’s amazing how something so simple gets twisted into a “right”. Why can’t I “terminate” a 1 year old if I choose not to keep it? It’s my choice! With enough pressure, I’m sure the dems would agree with me.
Linda Davis
Your hatred for Obama is sickening. I don’t hate McCain personally i just don’t like want he stands for. How can you call someone EVIL? Maybe you need to look in the mirror. Hold on to your hatred that makes no matter to me frankly that is “Above my Pay Grade” because the hate you are holding for a human being you have never met with no warrant only god can judge. : )………..I don’t care, if you don’t vote for Obama because he hasn’t been vetted for 20 years, or you disagree with his policies. But none of us know these people personally and for Obama to run for President with all the odds against him and to get this far perhaps risking his life or everything he has worked so hard for to help what Bush (probably someone you voted for) messed up, shows that he is anything but evil.
bo proved he is a total joke and unworthy of Presidential consideration. The abortion debate and it’s answers are the tip of the iceberg.
If Obama can not figure out when a child is alive then working at McDonald’s is above his pay grade.
To all those that are viewing Obama’s answer as evidence of him being spineless or a whimp – or even ‘still an enigma’: take a second to think please.
He properly identified the issue, recognized the intense feelings as well as the substance of both sides of the argument, and resolved it with a solution that requires a brain – not just blind faith.
This is the form that actual discourse takes. Please stop beating your chests and listen for once.
Can you deny that the ultimate goal in his heart is good?
I bet Oßama’s statement on the budget will be something like “close enough for government work.” It seems that he was led to the point of making a decision, then ran away from it. Maybe he wasn’t sure what he was supposed to say and ad-libbed. (Hey he ad “libbed”. That’s pretty good) It’s better than sounding like Porky-the-Pig like he usually does.
In my opinion McCain was “Presidential”, while Obama was “Professorial”; and Pastor Warren’s forum was more refreshing than either of the senators. The forum put all previous “debates” run by politicians, league of women voters, and pundits to shame. It was more revealing and less bull sh*t. I’m tired of the stock and loaded questions the suits offer up, and the crappy responses we have been fed for years.
Pregnancy is a choice. Birth control (if not self-control) is widely available. People simply are choosing not to use it. A fetus is undoubtedly human and alive so is clearly a human life. The Supreme Court (which also decided that an adult male was not a “person”) applied its personal policy preferences in deciding that a fetus is a human life that is legally not a person. Roe v. Wade makes as much sense as Dred Scott.
Men and women need to think before they act and ensure that, if they don’t want a baby, they don’t make a baby. Most abortions occur because people didn’t use birth control, not because of birth control failures. And let’s not get sidetracked by the”rape” example – less than 3% of abortions are due to rape, incest, life and/or health of the mother. See the Guttmacher Institute (a proabortion website) for these stats.
We need to grow up in this country and stop playing the victim role. If women don’t want babies, they should ensure that they don’t make them (same for the men). Having unprotected sex (and thus risking AIDS as well as pregnancy) is just plain stupid. Complaining afterwards that society is “forcing” them to have a baby is ludicrous. Are schools no longer teaching cause and effect?
As long as we indulge people’s conscious decisions to have unprotected sex and then kill the fetus, we are indulging stupidity. We are also permitting one person to kill another person because they are inconvenient.
In view of the many daunting challenges facing the United States and the world in general – be it economical, social, environmental or in terms of security – it is frankly somewhat puzzling, even concerning to note the obsession among many US voters with such a relatively narrow issue as abortion and the rights of mothers-to-be or foetuses/unborn children (whether considered “human” at conception or at a later stage)! While it is an important ethical discussion in itself, it surely can’t be the single biggest issue on which to judge a candidates merit and potential qualities as president of what is still the leading nation of the world? When considering the everyday struggle and suffering of vast numbers of people (and here I am thinking about people that have already been born!) in and outside the USA, as well as the potential positive impact in terms of creating new economical and business opportunities that may follow from wise and well considered policies by the US Government, one would hope that the abortion discussion will vacate the political stage and leave space for discussion of issues that have a far more significant impact on human life.
Many of you comment on Barack Obama’s anwers and do not focus on McCain’s ‘stump’ speech the other nite at saddleback regarding ‘abortion’ and rights for the unborn. Many of you seem to think Catholics and Evangelicals are the only Christian’s or so called christians in the country.
May I remind those christians that war it itself is not a God approved christian right, and yet the ‘christian’ right is usually made up of the fanaticals of war, ‘addicted to war’, perform exocism in some parts of country by the so called christian right, both of which are condemned by God.
I am a pro-lifer, but the arrogance to conceed that sending young men to their death’s in war, or taking a child’s life shortly after conception really is the same thing. That is why it is a very serious issue, but don’t say one is right the other wrong. Hypocritical.
Actually, Obama’s refusal (in the form of a joke) to be a ultimate judge on the very complicated moral problem shows his wisdom, not the lack of a position that he proved by his pro-choice record.
It it better to have an abortion or to sacrifice people at an alter of ideological wars like the war in Iraq or the American-Iran-Russia war that is in the pipeline when Mccain gets into the white house in January. America is heading to its doom.
This question pertained to the stance on abortion, not on the war. I thought Obama pretty much skirted every question with his feel good responses. I wanted to get in there and help him answer the questions…whew. The guy was slow…stammered…and when he did talk…said nothing. I don’t know any more about Obama now than I did before the interview. You just can’t pin him down and get any form of policy out of him
What is wrong with all of you? Obama said (paraphrasing here – hold your fire): Whether theologically or biologically, there are many opinions about when life begins. The “above my pay grade” remark was an obvious reference to someone who would know – God, I assume. The rest of his answer was reasonable and sounded like someone who has given the issue a lot of thought. It wasn’t a sound bite. If you really have an interest in his position, you should listen to it yourself – or read it. If you are inflexibly anti-choice, you are not voting for Obama. We know you hate Democrats – and quite a few other people besides – but at least try to be truthful and decent when you post opinions.
+1 Ren. Those who watched the actual discussion realize the comment was far from a joke – it was much more a statement of humbleness in saying that only God knows when life truly starts.
I’m not sure who I’ll vote for, but I do respect that Obama didn’t simplify the issue – what one believes (religiously) and how one should lead (politically) are not always one in the same. The world is far more complex than that, and I consider it simple-minded to claim otherwise.
One lies and one double speaks! It’s the year 2008 and we still don’t have a fair voting system! We can make anything thought of, but we can’t make a reliable voting machine with FAIR voting rights!
As a woman, I find it difficult to understand how what I do is anyone else’s business. A decision to have an abortion is a very personal one and with great thought. The option should be there and I should be able to make the decision regarding my body. Rape, incest and deformed babies are three good reasons to allow termination. Late-term? Only in the case of saving a life. I do not believe “organized religious zealots” should determine whether I have an abortion or not. It seems the system is full of children needing/wanting to be adopted who are abused, neglected and worse because their mother was forced to bear them. “Abstinence” is a joke in sex education and shows the ignorance of folks who actually believe this folktale. So there has to be other options for intelligent folks. Maybe Obama should have said to mind your own business. Would that have made you happy? For some of you, it makes no difference what he says, you are so blinded and such bigots and racists, you will vote for McCain, not because he is any better qualified (which he is NOT as well as he is a Bush clone–Bush who is an embarrassment to the US and who should be impeached!) but because he is white. By the way, I am white.
Hey moderator, thanks for pulling my two comments off without reason. There was no vulgar language, no hostile attacks against others, and I stayed completely on the topic at hand. If you’re going to silence my voice, you can at least have the decency to tell me why. You have my e-mail address.
How can all you pro-life people speak of the rights of an unborn child and in the same breath support the death penalty! You know you are taking a life there right! (Just checking)
Not mention, McCain who went to war to kill his fellow human beings, speaks about war as if it a God given right! and wants to win the war in Iraq to satisfy some left over testosterone-ego-driven anger from the Vietnam era, and he has the *&% to sit at that podium, with such reassurance, and declare himself pro-life for the unborn. What the heck, I am perplexed!
You all are a bunch of hypocrites. You are either pro-life or you are not.
It sounds like none of you can claim this pro-life stance
To suggest someone who is pro-life is anti-choice is ignorant or that if you’re not voting for Obama you hate democrats. I am neither. I do not hate Democrats, I think they are seriously misguided and a lot of times hypocrites. As far as choice I am far more pro-choice being pro-life than people who call themselves pro-choice which usually means they are for only one choice – abortion!
I believe that every woman young and old deserves and should have the right to be given all the information about the effects and damage that abortions can cause, both long term and short. I believe if you have to get a note from your parents to miss school, than it is the parents right to know there child is getting a abortion, that should be there choice. I believe in the choice to own a gun or not, the choice to use my tax dollars for a school voucher credit to send my children to any school I want. The pro-choice people I know are against all of these.
Obama skirted answering the question, if this is above his pay grade, than he has no right to vote on anything having to do with abortion let alone be picking Supreme Court Judges. Obama is a empty suit, who will ruin our great country, yes this country is great right now! We do not need Obamssiah to save us from evil America. This guy can’t speak his way out of a paper bag without his tele-prompter and speech writers and they say Bush is dumb.
This was a slam dunk for John McCain. His voting record on abortion is clear, and 25 years long. For anyone to say he cheated is just dim-witted. How hard can it be to answer these questions when you have been involved in these issues for 25 years?
Funny thing about losers. They always accuse the winner of cheating.
I sympathize with Obama. Like myself, he is reluctant to presume to know when life begins. If you don’t convince yourself that you know exactly when life begins, it takes a lot of the heat out of the argument. It makes you more comfortable in the middle ground, and less polarized. In that middle ground is where the legislation is now, and for the foreseeable future. Unfortunately for Obama, being in the middle on this issue has opened him to attack from both sides.
I highly discourage anyone from basing their vote on this or any single issue. If we let emotion rule our politics, we end up with things like President’s exploiting fear to sell wars. We need to think more critically and calmly about our beliefs and our choices if we’re going to save our country and our planet.
You would think that the point would be raised more often in the political arena that conception isn’t a single discrete event but rather a process so there is no “moment of conception” as such.
Right, a four word pronouncement on a question that has been the subject of scholarly, philosophical, and relgious inquiry for centuries is just … presidential!
No matter that McCain’s pandering comment would mean that use of any form of morning after pill, any IUD, and many types of birth control pills would be criminalized.
To Carl Corbit, who said stopping the killing of innocent unborn girls and bosy “will in no way improve the strength of our country or the quality of our citizens. Tell me how banning abortions or same-sex unions will improve America? How will that increase our GDP? How will that end poverty? How will that fix our Healthcare system or our schools?
Carl, then I guess you agree that we should take the laws against spousal abuse or murder off the books. After all, stopping spousal murder will in no way improve the strength of our country or the quality of our citizens. Tell me how banning spousal murder will improve America? How will that increase our GDP? How will that end poverty? How will that fix our Healthcare system or our schools?
You see Carl, you can try to obfuscate and change the subject on any act of evil, but it doesn’t change the fact that the act is still evil and it should be stopped.
Is that your only criterion, if the cessation of killing unborn children will “increase our GDP”?
Carl and Obama, and the Democrat party, EXAMINE YOUR SOULS.
to Augusto:
You say Obama’s “above my pay grade” quip was a “statement of humbleness in saying that only God knows when life truly starts.”
But Obama has regularly made decisions and vote to make sure we as Christians are forced to pay through our taxes for state-sponsored abortion. And he spoke our forcefully in the Born Alive Infants Protection Act debate, saying that we can’t let the live born babies live, because that might be a slippery slope, and it might lead to taking away our right to kill the baby in the womb.
If Obama really doesn’t think he knows when life starts, only God knows, then why is he willing to take the awful risk that he is killing a human made in God’s image, when he votes for and is supported by the abortion industry, Planned Parenthood, and the radical NOW gang?
Bottom line Obama was asked a direct question, either he could not or would not answer. To act like he doesn’t want to presume when life begins is ridiculous! You can make the argument you don’t know when from conception to birth, but if a child isn’t a human being outside it’s mothers womb moving and breathing how many days, weeks or months does it take for it to become a human being? Obama is dishonest in his position and stumbled his way out of the question. Obama has no business being President, he lacks integrity, honesty and any serious experience.
I agree Jason…I have a lot of friends from my church that were unsure who they were going to vote for…now Obama has hemmed and hawed around on social issues that are important to them, like poverty, (Obama will raise taxes on working people), the environment (this is a wash since McCain also will protect the environment, (the only difference most people see here is that Obama won’t let us drill for our own oil, instead he’ll make us continue to buy from dangerous foreign countries), and abortion (Obama voted for and spoke out forcefully for denying medical care to newborn babies who survived an abortion, while McCain answered the same questions forthrightly and with honesty and integrity), and national defense (Obama said his toughest decision was his incorrect vote on the war in Iraq, and his subsequent mistake on saying the surge will not work. Yet, he did not apologize and he appears to be ready to continue to make more boneheaded mistakes).
On the economy, I prefer McCain’s policy of increasing economic activity for all, and reducing unemployment, giving people the satisfaction of a job, as apposed to Obama’s handouts and income redistribution. Who is Obama to decide when someone is “rich enough” and he can start confiscating more of their hard earned money, just because Obama and his San Francisco elitists think they can spend it better than the American who earned it?
Besides, the top 1% of income earners is already paying 39% of the income taxes, and the top 50% of income earners are paying 97% of the taxes, so just how much more than 97% does Obama want us to pay?
Abortion is with no doubt terrible, a wrong choice.
The greatest gift to humans from God is freedom, including the freedom to make a wrong choice. The Government cannot impose moral views on to the people, that is a “talibanesque” attitude.
If abortion becomes criminalized… what penalty should a teenager receive who made the decision to have an illegal abortion? What penalty should a mother of 5 receive who made a decision to have an illegal abortion?. Could a jury condemn these people to capital punishment because of premeditated murder? The answer is no.