Tales from the Trail

Obama was being honest. He doesn’t know the moment that life begins and isn’t going to pretend he does. Nobody knows. Belief is not fact, nor is opinion. McCain seems to think he knows, and apparently some Americans like that. I don’t.

Obama spent the whole panel trying to dig deep, be introspective, and be very clear and honest about his views. McCain turned his attention to the audience and told stories. They were very good stories, I acknowledge that. Maybe it’s a matter of taste. But in this case I trust the honesty more than the excellent story-telling.

“To act like he doesn’t want to presume when life begins is ridiculous!”

This wasn’t the question.
The issue was human RIGHTS, not human life.

Which makes the whole thing quite complex.
I am against abortions, would never have one.
But have any of you really considered the difficulty in legislating the rights of the unborn?

Legislating morality??? Our entire civilization is built on the notion that there is a right and a wrong…. If we have no right to legislate morality, then why are our prisons full? There is a moral code… when something is wrong, when it’s evil, it is always evil… Killing another human being has always been evil… and will continue to be evil regardless of what moral relativists may say.

“Killing another human being has always been evil… and will continue to be evil regardless of what moral relativists may say.”

Not a fan of the death penalty, I guess.
Or war (regardless of the reasons), for that matter.

First off, the belief in a god is a wish based primitive fairy tale. So you can drop, what “god think or wants” out of the discussion. Use your nature given intelligence to realize that it doesn’t matter what a president’s stance on abortion is. As it sits, abortion is a judicial matter, not executive. One should be focused on the appointment and approval of justices. Why not decide the Presidnt on if he likes mexican food or not – who cares?
The question is can the person lead a nation and run a country that is the most complex and powerful in the history of man.
I’m terrifed of the fact that they both still say that they believe in spirits, ghosts, and magic.

I want all McCain supporters to sit back and to review the economic arguments that he’s putting forth. First of all, we have to raise taxes because this country is in a time of war. I think its pretty unpatriotic to not want to pay taxes. After all, I know the media has in a cowardly way said that we are winning th war in Iraq, somehow. We’ll see how stability holds up when the soldiers LEAVE. (We just don’t cover the atrocities in Afghanistan.) Secondly, McCain, like many Republicans claim that oh, Democrats want you to be dependent upon the government, well, they want you to be dependent upon wealthy people doing the right thing. Look at where that’s gotten us. How could people even fathom voting for a man who shares the same policies that got this country into the economic quagmire that it is currently in? It’s not logical. Look, McCain wants to offer tax breaks to the wealthy in HOPES that they will do the right thing and invest in our economy. Historically, we should have learned that its not in the elite’s best interest to watch out for the poor. Look at his wife. If the news media was not so biased, they would call McCain’s wife on doing business with not one, but with two companies that have cost Americans their jobs, inBev, and the company in Communist Cuba which she has not cut business ties with. This is the individual you all want to vote for?

I am no McCain supporter, but to suggest we need to raise taxes is simply wrong. When capital gains tax has been lowered the facts show the government takes in more tax not less. When Reagan lowered tax on the wealthy the facts show government intake in tax revenue went from 500 billion to about 1 trillion dollars. Your democratic worn out talking point about McCain wants to give a tax break for the wealthy is pure jealous class wafarism because the dumocrats never have real solutions to solve our economic issues other saying the rich never pay enough tax and we need to raise tax. Raising taxes is no real solution, firing half or more of our government and getting rid of 1/2 to 3/4′s of government programs would be a start in the right direction. The founders never intended for our government to become by the government for the government.

As to the rich and everyone else who’s money is it? The democrats have a entitlement attitude that it’s there money not yours, yet they don’t work for it. If I start a business and within 5yrs I am making a million a year and employing 10 people I don’t want the dumocrats to penalize me because they think I’m rich. I worked my ars off, I’m feeding ten people and their families, I’m helping the economy and paying tax, what’s left is my money not the democrats who always want to take more from me. And yes, the democrats want to be the sugar daddy, because they THINK they know what’s best for everyone else with their elitist attitude. Democrats: “Do as I tell you not as I do!” Government is too big, too fat and wastes way too much of all our money and this goes for both parties!

Since when did the United States engage in Mid East culture? To have a presidential debate in front of the entire planet and discuss such issues as faith and Jesus is beyond comprehension. We are not that type of nation however moving quickly towards that of Iran. We now opt to host a debate from an evangelical church. I never thought I would see the day this nation rolls over to join the ranks of Iran. We are telling the world we care more about religion than the freedoms we alledgedly fight for.
Next thing you know we will begin acting like Russia or have we already set the bar for them.

Obama’s response was weak. He could have been more specific like one governor that is on his VP short list “I am against abortions, I am pro-life, I believe life begins at conception, but I don’t believe in criminalizing doctors/mother who perform/have abortions.”

I would have respected that answer. But not “it’s above my pay grade”. Maybe alot of other issues are above his pay grade.

Dear chuckster

With all due respect, not every religious person uses the bible or believes in the bible, it doesn’t make them less religious. So that can not define everyones belief, I’m glad that it works for you but it’s not that simple for everyone. I personally do not believe in abortion, but I do believe in woman’s rights. I know if you take abortion rights away, it is only going to lead to unsafe and illegal methods to obtain the procedure. Honestly could you live with yourself if roe vs wade was overturn and a 14 yr old girl died from an illegal surgery? I understand that its an uneasy situation to except but no one will be able to stop it, it would just get worst. So I feel it’s better to except it, to keep it safe.

What a loaded question – especially when there is only one answer they want to hear, i.e., “their answer”. McCain gave them what they wanted to hear. I respect Obama’s answer more than McCain’s simply because there is no easy answer. Personally, I’d never get an abortion but I also do not have the need to control other people’s personal decisions. For an attorney who specializes in the U.S. Constitution, this question has no cut and dry answer and he didn’t succomb and give them what they wanted to hear – he answered truthfully.

I find it interesting that there seems to be a lack of understanding that our country’s form of government is a democracy based on the fundamental rights in the U.S. Constitution. It feels like there are a lot of religious people trying to push their feelings onto others and make it law at the same time. It used to be that a difficult form of government for Americans to understand is a theocracy (derived from the Greek words to “rule by the deity” or “rule by God”.) In a theocracy, there is no separation of church and state and the government rules according to religious precepts – Iran is one of many Muslim (Islamic) countries that are run on theocracy. What are we doing? There is a reason religion and politics don’t mix – look at the middle east. We’re supposed to be past that.

could above my pay grade mean that he doesn’t believe that he’s god [the only one that can answer the question anyway]. And do you people really believe that John McCain did not hear the questions before hand. Just you tube him.
Please get informed and think……

To Eileen,
You seem to be confused about the separation of church and state. We believe in the separation of church and state, as articulated in the First Amendment:

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

So, congress can’t make any laws that would establish a specific religion as the state religion. But they also can’t make any laws that would prohibit the free exercise of religion. We have freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion. The founders were all very religious Christians, and that shows up in all the founding documents and history.

So, we believe in the separation of church and state, but we do not believe in the separation of faith and politics, because faith is just a world view, and everybody has some kind of world view. It’s important to know what they are.

Yours appears to be liberalism, socialism and big government. We just don’t happen to agree with your religion, so please keep it to yourself and stop trying to implement laws that would establish your religion, liberalism, as the state religion.

John Adams and John Hancock:
We Recognize No Sovereign but God, and no King but Jesus! [April 18, 1775]

John Adams:
“ The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principals of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.”
• “[July 4th] ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty.”
–John Adams in a letter written to Abigail on the day the Declaration was approved by Congress

“We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” –October 11, 1798

To Tom P. – you missed my point entirely. I’m concerned that a group of people who make their viewpoints known, say…. ‘abortion’ attempt to forceplay politics to be able to get their own way. The problem with this approach is A) politicians will tell you what you want to hear in order to win, B) this group of people is imposing their own beliefs on the other groups of people, C) the subject of morals comes up and quickly moves to ‘answering to God’ – the problem with this is if you get an abortion then it has been assumed you will be judged yet the whole thing is couched like an entire group will be judged by one person’s actions which is why you are making it your business (when it is not).

As I said earlier, I myself would not get an abortion BUT if one of my daughters was raped or her life was in danger due to complications with carrying a child I would encourage an abortion. Nothing is cut and dry – which is why Obama tried to cover these angles in his answer.

For my theocracy comment…. I worked in Iran for four years in the late 70′s and saw how that society was run. The President is a figure-head – nothing more, i.e., a puppet. The Mullahs run the country and everybody better be on board with their thoughts on everything from A-Z – if not, they suffer the consequences. So, people trod through their lives doing what they are told to do – all based in the Mullahs religious interpretations. The ultra-religous group – the ones who want to be patted on the head because they make it known how many times they prayed that day… go around and tattletale like children on the other groups hoping to get them in trouble. It’s very dysfunctional for a society to behave that way.

The group here that I am referring to is wanting very similar things for us. So, my question is – do you want to see Roe v. Wade overturned? Do you want to ban abortions in the U.S.? If so, then you are starting on a pathway very similar to a theocracy where religious law based on what a group of people think law should be, rather than abiding by civil law.

As Obama stated, there are a lot of things we can do to get abortions down. For starters, we should all go after the media and Hollywood for promoting the issues that lead to unexpected pregnancies.

As for your other comments, I know the law all too well. If you read what I wrote you will see that I believe politics and religion do not mix – meaning, do not try and overturn law because of your religious beliefs. The John Adam’s quotes were nice, but not on point.

hey Eileen…roe v. wade is not law, it is an edict handed down by 9 appointed judges who are not held accountable to the people…and only serves to deny the male any rights before your so-called choice.

abortion is a states right issue and the federal government has no business funding or sanctioning it.

i just love how you liberals make up statistically insignificant scenarios(..if at all probable) as a reason to have abortion on demand keep going at the current rate of 40 million a year. ron paul has delivered over 4 thousand babies and says that not once has he seen where the mothers life was in danger…so keep dreaming.

why hasn’t america got to vote on the issue of abortion at the state level?…could it be that you liberals and your “strawman” arguments won’t hold water with mainstream americans?

i sincerely hope that this election turns on the issue of abortion so we all can see how vapid and stupid obama really is…and to sweep you dimmycrats out of power and back into the gutter so you can wallow in the moral filth of your liberalisim.

ExT

To Eileen the Angry:

Yes, I know it must make you angry when someone like me points out the logical folly of your thinking, but that’s no reason to think I am angry or not a Christian. That is a non-sequitur.

I take it you have not read the transcripts and the news about Obama and the Born Alive Infants Protection Act? Any one of us can google it, Obama or you can’t deny the facts, so it is of no use to try that with us.

As far as your “don’t judge” canard goes, nice try. The admonition not to “judge” is frequently used to place a virtual gag order over those who would speak up against popular and accepted world practices. People like you often try this phrase in order to protect your liberal doctrines and actions from exposure.

But what does God have to say on this subject? Is it true that Christians are told not to judge? The simple answer is no. In fact, according to Scripture those who do not judge are more likely to be led astray by false doctrines and are less effective witnesses for Christ.

So, you are attempting to pervert the word judge to allow for you and Obama killing innocent unborn children.

God enables man to judge, commands man to judge, and is pleased with those who seek to judge righteously.

Scriptures clearly show that throughout time God has imparted to man the authority to judge (Leviticus 19:15; Deuteronomy 1:16; Deuteronomy 16:18; Judges 2:16-19; II Chronicles 19:5; Ezra 7:25; Isaiah 1:17; Ezekiel 23:45; John 7:24; Romans 2:27; I Corinthians 2:15; I Corinthians 6:). In Zechariah 3:7 God states that He gives those who obey Him the authority to judge, “Thus saith the LORD of hosts; If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk among these that stand by.” There are also additional references in Scripture to this process of judging that may not specifically use the word judge. For example, in the original languages, the words translated as judge in Scripture are also translated examine, search, discern, ask, question, contend, esteem, and determine.

When citing God’s “command” not to judge, people often refer to Matthew 7:1, however, let’s look at the complete Scripture in context. “Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.” (Matthew 7:1-5)

Jesus clearly says do not judge so that you will not be judged, but to whom is He speaking? He identifies His audience in verse 5 with the words “Thou hypocrite.” Jesus is not forbiding Christians to judge (unless He is calling every Christian a hypocrite). He is warning that we will be held accountable for what we know. In other words, if we know enough about sinful behavior to tell others that it is wrong, then we have no excuse as to why that sin would be present in our lives. This is consistent with Paul’s advice in I Corinthians 11:31-32 that we judge ourselves first so that we will not be judged. As Jesus says in verse 5, we should cast the beam out of our own eye and then we are in position to point out the fault to others.

In truth, God does not forbid us to judge, but He sets up conditions wherein we must judge.

And, of course,if you read Romans Chapter 13, you will see how God says governments should be run with justice, mercy and grace. God says that he has put governments in authority over you and me, Eileen, and government “is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.”

So, yes, the government and our laws SHOULD stop wrong doers from killing innocent people in society, and some lame statement to “not judge” takes nothing away from that authority.

what results when a sperm cell and an ovum are united? An embryo is created. Is it a animal embryo? No. Plant life? No. Mineral? No. What kind of embryo is it? Is it a HUMAN embryo. Is it alive? Yes. So, it’s human, it’s alive– therefore it’s human life. I am not a Harvard grad, but it was not hard to figure this one out. Life–human life, begins at conception.

For those who don’t understand “above my paygrade”, I have a question for you. If life begins at conception as was stated, was the first man conceived from clay or created in God’s own image?

In no attempt to avoid your question, the question I believe is “When does life begin”? If the first man was conceived as an embryo, then the case is closed. As it stands, this isn’t what is written thereby calling either conception or creation into question.

Regarding all the back and forth on Obama’s response to conception.

He said: “whether you’re looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity … is above my pay grade.”

He meant that he is neither a scientist or God. He approaches questions intellectually and comes across as thoughtful and intorspective.

Perhaps this is too much for some Americans who have gotten too used to the stupidity of the Bush administration. You obviously are not ready for an “intelligent and thoughtful leader.”

I can see why you’re much more comfortable with “McSame” who needs to fall back on standard stump speech rhetoric, and answers bluntly from his gut.

Google McSame’s response to his opinion on Insurance covering Viagra but not birth control. He said he didn’t know, he’d have to research what his prior position was on the issue and get back to you. They asked for his opinion, not his standard rhetoric, and he couldn’t remember what he’d said previously.

Intelligent and thoughtful? You are kidding right. Anyone with intelligence understood he was avoiding the question. The whole birth control pill issue has been around for as long as I can remember. Reagan, Bush, Clinton nor George W OR their congresses changed it.

Fact is, one guy answered the question the other avoided it… Now… who is thoughtful and introspective or for that matter…truthful. I’ll take the one who answered, thank you, and throw the politician aside… you know… the one for “change”. By the way… find me a leader who doesn’t answer bluntly… if you do, chances are, he is a politician… not a leader.

What Mr. Obama showed me is that he had a chance to take a stance, make a decision, in a public forum and he … copped out. Whether I agree with him or not is irrelevant, the fact that is side-stepped it, is.

Nice try, 1more4REALchange.

You think it’s “intelligent and thoughtful” for Obama to pretend he doesn’t have a view on when life begins?

He does.

He thinks life begins for a human baby after the mother and father decide he or she should live. Obama thinks that even after the baby is born and starts breathing on its own, we have the right to kill him or her because their life is not valuable until we say it is.

Obama fought hard against those of us who wanted to give medical care to live born babies who were born after a botched abortion attempt. Obama said we need to leave them to die because if we help them, that might be a slippery slope to taking away liberals “right” to kill babies in the womb.

So the Born Alive Infant Protection Act specifically called out that it was protection for live born babies, and would not impact the abortion debate on babies inside the womb.

But Obama fought this and would not allow us to legally give medical help to babies born alive. He wants us to leave them crying in a dirty closet until they die.

Is that what you meant by Obama “intelligent and thoughtful” response to the Born Alive Infant Protection Act?

Obama tried to vote “present” on whether we should kill innocent babies or not.

Sorry, Obama, you can’t vote “present” as President. You just disqualified yourself.

You are the weakest link. Good bye.

“Above MY Pay Grade” What a weasel-like answer. It shows his penchant for hiding his extreme liberalism through smooth talking. He stood his ground, he can now continue to vote for killing live born children who survive abortions, and nominate far left radical judges who believe the same thing. Then he can continue to say “gee, whether these live born children are human or not and deserve medical treatment is above my pay grade, while voting to kill them.

So, as always, Obamas words are smooth but his policies are disasterous.

With Sarah Palin’s and John McCcains extensive executive experience, coupled with their judgment and their maverick ways, fighting against corruption and waste no matter which party they find it in, we have a remarkable combination for the leadership of this country.

On the other hand, Obama and Biden have ZERO executive experience. Obama has experience rabble rousing for a far left group, ACORN, in Chicago, and he has experience making a bunch of speeches running for office.
Biden has experience plagiarizing speeches and voting with the far left wing that is anti-American.

The left is REELING from the Sarah Palin pick, because all Americans who are not extreme left wing radicals see her as just like them…someone who is just raising a family and doing what she can to stop corruption and waste in the government. Except she DID something about it, running for Mayor and then Governor, beating corruption in her own party and beating popular Democrat opponents.

Also, John McCain used to think of himself first, as Obama and Biden still do. But his time in the North Vietnamese prison camp brought him to the realization that he must serve a cause higher than his own self interest. That is why he is for COUNTRY FIRST.

Obama and Biden are for themselves first, for liberalism first. They are still too young and inexperienced to understand that Americans want someone who loves America in the White House, not someone who sits and listens silently as his pastor damns America from the pulpit.