Obama says pointed abortion query “above his pay grade”
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DALLAS – U.S. Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama side-stepped a pointed query about abortion on Saturday by “mega-pastor” Rick Warren during a televised forum.
Asked at what point a baby gets “human rights,” Obama, who strongly supports abortion rights, said: “… whether you’re looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity … is above my pay grade.”
He went on to reiterate his view that it was important to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies.
Republican presidential candidate John McCain, who followed Obama onto the stage of the nationally televised event, was more blunt and more emphatic.
He said a baby’s human rights began “at the moment of conception … I have a 25-year pro-life record.”
Both candidates were vying for the “faith vote,” in particular the one in four U.S. adults who count themselves as evangelical.
Obama took questions first from Warren and McCain followed. The two shared the stage together briefly.
Some centrist evangelicals have said they appreciate moves by the Democratic Party to “soften” the edges of its pro-choice stand by stressing the need to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies and abortions — and by also working harder in areas like adoption.
But for many conservative evangelicals — a key part of the evangelical base — life begins at conception and the argument ends there.
The issue remains one of the most divisive and partisan in America — as Obama and McCain highlighted on Warren’s stage.
(Additional reporting by Jeff Mason)
(Photo credit: REUTERS/Rebecca Cook, Files, USA)
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I agree. We need more dumb presidents who can’t use big words like “specificity,” because they’ve served us so well over the past eight years. Those Bush tax cuts sure are working!
Obama must wait to ask George Soros what his opinion should be on abortion. The puppet master must instruct the puppet before the puppet may speak.
“is above my pay grade.”? Are you kidding me? And this is the guy they are going to nominate in Denver?
This won’t be a campaign; it will be a suicide mission.
Still not taking a firm stance on anything. Pathetic.
Obama’s response was lame and gutless. I may not believe in the liberal pro choice view on abortion, but I certainly have alot more respect for somebody if they stand behind what they believe. This kind of wishy washy non answer did not win any points with me.
So McCain goes against the bible and history – where until quite recently – abortion and abortifactants were acceptable through the “quickening” – or that point at which one can feel the fetus moving about.
McCain would also thus be against any help in that regard for rape victims and victims of incest – he would sentence them all to 9 months of labor and a life time of knowing that they had brought a product of a hate crime into this world – no matter what the victims feelings about the issue might be. He would be against stem cell research as it has been approved by the Bush administration. A bit harsh.
And who the heck can say that John McCain loves babies? Where is that in evidence? Because he’s adopted a view on when life begins that resonates with yours? That doesn’t even mean that he loves blastocytes; it just means he’s adopted that position.
Show me McCain’s policy positions on issues affecting babies — children who have already been born.
Still unwilling to give a simple answer to a simple question. The Bible Obama claims to love says, “you shall know them by their fruits”, but if they bear no fruit at all, how can you know them? Or is no answer also an answer? Being willing to stand for something, anything,and defend your position is a strong sign of leadership. What is the opposite a sign of? Like the song says, “a little less talk, and a lot more action!”
It is unbelievable that a true Christian is not pro-life.
Thank God for McCain. BO, is a pretender to the presidency and cannot be trusted. We pray that McCain will not choose Romney for VP. He too, is a pretender and cannot be trusted.
The question posed wasn’t a scientific or theological one. Just a straightforward question about the subject. In typical fashion, Obama can’t give an answer.
He knows that if he were to give his true answer to the question, he loses nothing but he can’t help but give a non-answer out of habit. It’s what he does.
Those that will be voting for him know what his thoughts are. Those voting against him know what his thoughts are.
What Obama said yesterday contradicts what he has said in the past on the abortion issue. He has called, on several occasions, a baby that survives an abortion a “fetus” and has indicated that in doing so he would not support confirming basic “human rights” on that child. That fact that he won’t face this issue of life and death (not of choice and some like to call it) is sad.
If you support the legal killing of unprotected children, what is there left to do and worry about? What does that say about society? Abortion is NOT about a woman’s choice; it IS about murder. And until America faces that reality as a nation, the killing will continue. Why is it that when a pregnant woman is killed and the fetus is killed at the time or the crime, there are 2 crimes (Laci Peterson Law)? But, the woman going to a clinic to kill that fetus is legal? You can’t have it both ways.
Obama’s Abortion Extremism
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/article s/2008/04/caseys_endorsement_lacks_fathe .html
Nothing Obama could have said would have been acceptable to the pro-lifers.
Period.
Had my doubts about McCain. Until last night. Go McCain. NOBAMA.
As inexperienced as Senator Obama is, there isn’t much that isn’t above his pay grade. Perhaps he’s recognizing this and will withdraw from the race…..LOL
Above his pay grade? C’mon. Pitiful. This guy opposed the use of life-sustaining medical efforts when an aborted child is born alive. This is an extreme and very serious position to take and deserves a serious answer when questioned about it, not this kind of cutesy remark.
Obama, you were being asked a LEGAL/LEGISLATIVE question, you idiot – it IS your paygrade! Nevermind, I know when you think human rights begin…in the case of partial birth abortion it’s when the head comes out and the baby breaths….that’s why the procedure is performed feet first and the head is stabbed. Didn’t you also vote to let babies that SURVIVED an abortion and were breathing, to die? Maybe you are operating above your pay grade already.
Reading a response above – yes indeed we did “survive” the Clintons. We “survived” having 22 million jobs created, having the Dow Jones Industrial Average go up over 300% – having the poverty rate drop and the unemployment rate drop from 7% to 3.9% and having the US run a budget surplus for the first time in ages. Under the neo-cons – crushing deficits – a rise of less than 10% in the Dow Jones over 7 1/2 years – fewer than 5 million jobs – increase in the poverty rates and unemployment rates – the loss of the City of New Orleans and a botched war, the housing crisis and the oil crisis. I could us a little more Democratic style “survival”.
McCain showed what a leader he is. He answered all of the questions that were asked of him in a detailed manner to fully answer all questions. Barrack danced around each question stuttering and didn’t even really answer the questions.
I was very impressed with how much better McCain did during this forum. His experience and knowledge of history and the world leaders is hands down above that of Barrack.
I feel sorry that Barrack looked so inexperienced.
Gosh, I’m below the Obama’s pay grade. I guess I shouldn’t think about big things like abortion. Better leave it to my superiors.
This is in response to Andrew Austin’s comment. Andrew, if life begins at conception then abortion is murder. The state forcing women to have babies? You have just admitted that fetuses are babies, plain and simple. Women (and men) have the choice not to have a baby. it is called contraception. Personal responsibility. And if you are not smart enough to master the complexities of the pill, there is always Implanon. And if the contraceptive fails, there are thousands of willing parents waiting to adopt your “mistake”. Heaven knows, we wouldn’t want you “punished with a baby.”
Sex = babies. Don’t want babies? Don’t have sex. Don’t kill the babies. It is simple logic. But, American’s don’t like logic. They want convenience.
A fetus is not a person, therefore a fetus doesn’t have human rights. The fetus would die if not for the woman. If the woman choses that she does not want the fetus, it is her body and her right. Simple. Those of you who want fetuses should have them. This is not a police state that tells womens what can and cannot grow in their bodies. Obama’s answers shows that he comprehends deeply philosophical issues. Sorry if you don’t like it.
This question and answer session further convinced me that Senator Obama is nowhere near ready to lead the greatest country on God’s Green Earth. The man simply spouts sentiments and statements that show has lack of depth, understanding, and experience in anything that could make him lead this country adequately. To me, it is simply scary to think that people in this country might choose him for the most important job in the world. McCain, again, by his experiences, words, and solutions to our serious problems proved that he is amply qualified and will continue the leadership, dignity, respect, understanding and greatness to our country. And I was pleased that he mentioned N. Sarkozy, France’s President, who is trying to bring the same to his country. We need men, and allies like him in this world of adolescents to bring common sense and attempt to bring maturity and self reliance to their citizens, and country – where people realize that they are responsible for their deeds and lives, and must be accountable for themselves.
“It doesn’t matter when life begins. For the state to force women to have babies represents tyranny against which Americans should fight and die.”
Not just wrong, this sinks to utter STUPIDITY! Nobody forces any woman to get pregnant. Unprotected sex is a choice, freely made. That choice, once it results in the creation of another human being, is a voluntary choice to pro-create. Exceptions: Rape, incest and mental defect.
The abortion debate is so ridiculous. I am totally against abortion, yet EVEN MORE against the government controlling it.
You worry about you and let someone else worry about themselves and this and so many other debates would be over.
The people that are so hell bent to control someone elses life actually scare me. It would be a lot better place if people would just mind their own damn business.
Perhaps a trivial adjustment to the definition of person is in order. I propose no personhood status until age 18. This would extend the carnage from the innocent to the less obviously so. The abortion of an adolescent fetus might find justification in poor behavior. We will, under my proposal, end up with much better behaved children.
I’m not religious so have no views on abortion from that standpoint. I do believe that human life begins at conception. When I hear opponents say it is just a non-viable tissue mass, it makes me cringe. If left alone, what do they think it is going to become, a walnut? No, it is a human being at an early stage of development. I would respect their opinions more if they would just say they don’t care that it is a human being, they just don’t want to be inconvenienced by it.
What a way to skirt the issue. Obama tries not to be nailed down on his views. Afterall,if we knew his view on abortion,or any issue for that matter, we might be forced to make a judgement on his character. If its one thing liberals fear the most,its facing truth,and moral the delema accompanying that truth. We don’t want to make value judgements do we. Hopefully the public will recognize this empty suit.
Now that Obama messed up again he will have to spin out an answer for his foolish comment.
Fox News – Senator Obama, what did you mean when you said this issue was above your pay grade?
“I meant that God himself is the only one to determine that. I thought I was clear in God’s house, that I was deferring to him on the issue.”
What he really means however is that he will do anything in his power to make sure abortion is legal, and to advance the methods and terms permitted under the law.
I don’t care frankly about this issue in comparison to others, but it shows how completely fake he is. Don’t elect this liar.
This is directed to Andrew Austin’s comment. Sir, there is no more complete tyranny than what you advocate. The feebleness of mind you posses is betrayed by your own puerile statements.
Obama is in over his head or should I say he is in over his paygrade.
China likely cheated with underage gymnasts at the Olympics. Truth has never been a Communist strong point.
I have a question that I’ve never heard anyone address and it is this:
How can we say that women are strong enough to go into a war zone and face all the stress, discomfort, emotional duress, trials, fears, etc. of war, but it is too difficult for them to carry an unwanted baby to term? Can someone explain?
Please don’t tell me about about the whole freedom to choose. Finish the sentence . . . Freedom to choose to kill her baby.
Our definition of freedom is warped. Freedom is meant to mean free to do what we ought to do, not free to do what we want to do. We never ought to intentionally kill an innocent life. It is a distinct life, and it does not belong to anyone else.
Richard Cole, wear do you get your facts? or do you make them up as you go along?
“this man has no respect for life.”
are you out of your mind? seriously.
This is exactly the kind of mindset and person that scares me in this country.
To Andrew Austin: If you concede that, as you stated, “it doesn’t matter when life begins” then for the sake of this arguement we will assume it begins at conception and as the article pointed out, that is when its rights begin (Obvious if its a living human). And then, as you stated, the woman still has the right to terminate its life to preserve her rights, why then would your mother not have the right to end your life today? You are both living humans being terminated by your mothers? And maybe fathers should also have the right to do this? I can think of several “honor killing” fathers that would agree with your assessment. And if mothers and fathers have the right to murder, why should it be bound by relationship ties? I can think of thousands of murderers in our prison system that think you are the einstein of political policy!
Saying that you don’t know when life begins but being an advocate for abortion rights is like saying that you don’t know if anyone is in a building while advocating burning it to the ground. Ignorance is not a defense for murder.
As for the argument “If you dont like abortions then DONT HAVE ONE!!!,” that’s pretty catchy. Don’t limit such a catchy argument to abortion, though. If you dont like murder then DONT COMMIT ONE!!! If you dont like rape then DONT RAPE ANYONE!!! Life is much easier when you can live your life one slogan at a time.
The question truly is, When do we grant political (human) rights to a person? To say one doesn’t know when life begins is a dodge. Everyone who took high school biology learned this: The zygote is the first stage of a uniquely individual human life. It has all the physical and genetic stuff needed to progress to the nexts stages and eventually become a baby. Any honest discussion must acknowledge this biological fact, which can be verified in any high school, college, or medical school textbook.
When truth confronts liberals then tend to ignore its reality. Hence the use of the word “choice” for deliberate literal execution of a viable living child during partial birth abortion as a most extreme example. Seriously, put yourself in the “operating” room during such a procedure. Put Obama in the room. I won’t describe it here, but the child is truly “partially” born. One cannot represent himself as a unifier, much less a reasonable human being in my book, if he can shrug his shoulders and pass off an answer to a higher paygrade – I think we all know what that answer would be in any event. Other late term abortions are just as horrible to the unborn child. While there are those that feel there are no gray areas with this issue, Obama certainly isn’t gray when it comes to abortion. Anyone who can be pro-partial birth abortion is no centrist, no unifier, and you have to wonder if “choice” of political aliances trumps that of life itself.
It is not a matter of “if you don’t like abortions, then don’t have one”. It is a matter of life and ending it because of poor choices. Women need to be more responsible about their “choice” of having sex and becoming pregnant. Women and men all have a “choice” about sex. How about self control and responsibility instead of aborting a baby because you lacked it. BTW, I am a woman who loves sex as much as the next person.
“Abortion is NOT a Constitutional government issue.”
I couldn’t agree more. However the supreme court magically made it a constitutional issue – wrongly so in my opinion.
And I beg to differ, this IS an important issue because it deals with the most basic of human values – life!
If the “messiah” thinks this issue is “above his pay grade then he is making his own case for not being qualified for the presidency.
“If you don’t like abortions then DONT HAVE ONE!!!”
How about – If you don’t want a child then DON”T GET PREGNANT!!!
I am kind of shocked with the disproportionate number of pro-lifers on this board. Maybe they’re the only ones who get riled up over what is a very humble answer–God is the only one who knows when life begins. He’s not referring to his pay-grade status as a senator or as anything else, but his status as a human with imperfect knowledge. God is the only one who knows the truth. Oh, I’m sorry, Obama’s the presumptuous one, while everyone on this board knows the most difficult answers known to man.
Seems like we have some pseudo-scientists here. So maybe someone can exactly define what “Life” is. That’s a debate that has been raging for years in the scientific community. It’s pretty difficult to define where Life begins if one cannot determine what Life is.
Scientists and Theologians can debate until the end of time about when life begins, but it doesn’t matter.
The point at which we define a fetus as a “person” is just a construct. Whether we call it a fetus or person, the end result is the same: it dies, and you killed it. There was life, and then there wasn’t.
So if the pro-aborts want to debate about when life begins, that’s fine… but realize it’s just a rationalization.
“Above my pay grade”? What kind of answer is that for a would-be president?
The President of the United States is not some unionized worker who can avoid a tough problem by saying “I don’t get paid for that”. What’s next? Demanding overtime, sick leave, and refusing to work more than a certain number of hours a week?
It is not just that he ducked a question on the central human rights issue of our time, but the attitude he displayed while ducking it.
Once again we see a level of arrogance and selfish pride on the part of a man seeking the most powerful position in the world.
Wow! This is the Democrat’s dynamic speaker??? Boy do they have to keep his head in the book to keep his head together enough to make sense of what he says. Maybe he sounds good, but speaking is not his plus. Barak has taken a hard one on the chin. Media will deny it, but it’s damage control in the Democrat camp. Maybe Hillary will seize the day at the last minute.
The truth be told, Abortion is murder. Only in the rare save the mama’s life should it be used. If she did not want to have a baby she shouldn’t have been playing with the boy down the street in the bed room.
Is a new (human) conception a human? Yes, human dna. Is it alive? Yes,it’s converting sugars and nutrition into replicated cells and energy. The reason the preborn is killed is largely for someone’s convenience. The arguments against letting it live are largely because it has a different size, level of development, location, or degree of dependency from someone who has escaped from the womb.
How can one justify preventing “tyranny” against grown women by the slaughter (by poison, chemical burning, starvation or suffication) of a pre-born one (never mind the males)?
There are two human beings there, and ignoring one doesn’t change things.
andrew-(1st post)-Where did you learn that rights and responsibilities aren’t related? The “state” you want to condemn doesn’t snatch women off the street and impregnate them against their will. THAT would be something worth fighting and dying to stop. Natural consequences of human behavior are not. We can each have our own opinion of when life begins, but that is just what it is, an opinion, not a fact. If my opinion is that I can fly, that doesn’t make it a fact, as jumping off a cliff would prove. Real life decisions have consequences, or do you expect government to protect you if you decide to roller-skate on the freeway? Fetuses aren’t being sacrificed for “human freedom”, but for the convenience of the one who doesn’t like the consequences of their earlier choices. By your argument, infanticide would be ok too, as long as you kill them before they have a real personality. Good thing your parents didn’t buy into that line of thinking!
‘Above his pay grade’ was probably a point that it is for you with your own God to decide on the point of creation and to use your own conscience in these matters, it isn’t for the secular state to decide.
Why not designate every sperm as sacred and make masturbation a crime? A lot of the self-congratulatory, masturbatory and holier than thou responses above would be caught here…
To Andrew Austin…
I don’t like to hurl insults out into the ether, but I have to say that your comment truly was one of the most inane, least thought out comments I’ve ever seen, read, or heard. To say it’s better to kill a fetus in the name of freedom than to kill a grown man because the adult has a name and personality is simply so ridiculous and illogical that it borders on being a non-sequitur. The fetus is the epitome of innocence. It has neither choice nor awareness of it’s actions, and is 100% dependent on the mother for every need. The adult is the polar opposite: he has choice and control over every action. How is killing a fetus a declaration of freedom? It’s no more an expression of freedom than putting a gun to a mentally handicapped child and blowing his head off…in fact I dare say it is exactly the same thing. Is it possible or reasonable to purposely execute a completely innocent child? Not on this planet. So how is it possible to kill an equally innocent unborn baby?
This is not a simple question. There is not a point you can identify and say this is when an embryo/fetus deserves rights. If you believe in conception as the point then you must be against birth control pills which in fact prevent implantation, not fertilization. I wonder if John McCain is ready to come out and say he is against birth control pills as a means of birth control.
Religion is just convenient for most people, they don’t really believe it when it comes to them. Case in point. How many pro life parents suddenly support abortion when there 16 year old daugter becomes pregnant? And why don’t we see many children with Down’s syndrome anymore despite the increased in women having children later in life.
There isn’t an answer to this only opinions. It is much like saying there is or isn’t a god, no one knows. I think we should make abortion as safe and rare as possible and reasonable limits such as up to viability would probably be supported by a majority. You can’t stop abortion you can only drive it into the back alleys.