Tales from the Trail

Inside the Tent: Hillary supporters and PUMA

August 25, 2008

Nancy Kivlen of PUMA (“Party Unity My Ass”) explains why she plans to vote for John McCain if Hillary Clinton doesn’t receive the Democratic nomination. This video is from Mike Smith, one of the contributors to Reuters Inside the Tent.

Reuters Inside the Tent has more than 40 delegates and other attendees in Denver and St. Paul, equipped with video cameras to capture the conventions from the ground up. Smith is not a Reuters employee and any opinions expressed are his own.

Click here for a full list of contributors at the Democratic National Convention. We’ll be moving to St. Paul for the Republican National Convention next week.

Click here for more Reuters 2008 campaign coverage.

Comments
48 comments so far | RSS Comments RSS

Never underestimate how deeply someone can deceive themselves.

Posted by Charles | Report as abusive
 

When is a reporter going to ask one of these Hillary zeolots what they believe in? There is no way a real Democrat could support McCain in the general election. If they could switch so easily, then they have no values.Secondly, do they really think that Hillary can win in the future — or even keep her Senate seat — without the support of the Obama wing of they party? Without African Americans? Get real.

Posted by Hank | Report as abusive
 

While we haven’t decided about voting FOR Obama, We definitely will NOT vote for John McCain or ANY Republican.We Might decide to write in Hillary Clinton or vote for the Green Party or whoever else is the most progressive candidate but there is no way this household is voting republican ever again!!!! No McSame!

 

I understand the disappointment of the PUMA people. Hey, I wanted Edwards, so imagine how I feel. But I do not get how the PUMA people expect their threats to persuade. They don’t persuade me.First — Look, folks, there are rules. If I were a Michigander, I’d be incensed too — not at Obama, but at my own Michigan Democratic party for holding the primary so early that according to the rules, my own vote wouldn’t count! If you want your vote to count, then insist your state party follows the rules, and set your primary at a time your vote will count. Otherwise, no. That’s what rules are for.Second — have you not gotten it that Obama has acted not just as a politician, but as a statesman, during this mess? Check this out, if you haven’t already:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/20 08/06/01/dncs-brazile-says-clinton_n_104 553.htmlThird — if you want to make a protest vote, why not vote for Nader? He has history. He has known positions.Fourth — what about African American women? Do they not get to see someone move forward this year, because you’re angry?Fifth — if you vote for McCain, I don’t want to hear you whining about the consequences.

Posted by Another white feminist | Report as abusive
 

As a boomer long-time Democrat (I worked very hard for McGovern …) I think we should all vote for McCain. That way when the entire system fails (i.e., US consumer economy completely flops, the environment melts down, continued repercussions from the foreign affairs debacle begun by “W”, continued increases to the debt, etc., etc.) it will be on a Republican watch. Then, possibly we’ll never have to have another Republican administration EVER AGAIN!!

Posted by Xynthia | Report as abusive
 

Because i didn’t get what i want for christmas doesn’t mean i go out and get the exact opposite of what i wanted.

Posted by Komrad | Report as abusive
 

Well, a lot of people have problems with Obama’s color, and it’s not what you think.First, it’s Red, as in Communist Red. Looks like the party decided to firstly appeal to its core (liberal) constituents, but in doing so it pushed the moderates towards GOP.Secondly, it’s Green. Not green as in “environment protection”, but green as in “lack of relevant experience”.And yes, it’s also black. Both African countries and black communities have a lot of expectations. However they’re up for a big disappointment. Even though Obama may (and probably will) give to them a lot more than any one else in that position, it still will be way below expectations. What expectations one may ask? The African countries (or at least the majority of population) would expect Obama and rich Uncle Sam make standard of living in Africa same as in 1st world, nothing short of would suffice. And the blacks stateside would expect turning the majority of prison population into majority of well-paid job holders. Yet it takes skills other than street-smart, and experience other than crack sales. Obama is right that the healing of black communities should start with the healing of attitude and values, but this message is not acceptable to the addressees – so much so that one of African-American standard bearers issued a violent threat against certain parts of Obama’s anatomy. Disappointment would lead to tensions, and tensions would lead to…(use your imagination). Since many of us don’t want to even imagine that, they’d rather vote for McCain.

Posted by Anonymous User | Report as abusive
 

I’m glad that these whackjobs are willing to throw everything they believe in out the door. They should be called PVMA instead…Personal Values My Ass

Posted by Pablito | Report as abusive
 

The vocal minority that feels their raucous infantile blackmail should outweighs the will of the majority every time. Nancy Kivlen of PUMA (”Party Unity My Ass” should just move her irresponsible mob to McShame’s tent and be done with it. Not even her effort at manipulating Obama will give the White House to that doddering old fool. Another house to add to his collection.

Posted by lydia | Report as abusive
 

It’s funny how she complains about FL and MI not counting, which is true, but she ignores the fact that Obama didn’t campaign in either and was only on the ballot in one of them… It was up the the citizens of FL and MI to stand up for their votes when their state’s party took that right away from them.That aside, Hillary lost, yo. Obama wasn’t chosen by anyone except the voters. Say the press gave him an easy time, well why would they now be ripping him apart? They run with stories, its what happens. His demeanor was still catching people by surprise. He beat Hildog in votes, delegates, AND DIGNITY. Don’t waste 4 more years and countless more lives out of stubbornness.

Posted by Brandon B | Report as abusive
 

These extremists are proving exactly why Hillary would not ever win the election if she had won the nomination. She is such a polarizing figure (both pro and con)that appeals more to the fringe elements of both parties (either to vote for or against her) than to the swing vote and moderates who will determine the election.Obama is the best chance the Democrats have. If Hillary was the candidate, McCain would win by a landslide.These PUMA people and people wearing Hillary 2012 T-shirts are fodder for the GOP and Fox News to trot out their stories to convince the electorate that the Democrats are fractured and falling apart and that Hillary had more support than she really ever did.Elections are about circling your wagons to defend your party and win the election. The Republicans know that and that’s why they keep stealing the elections even when they have candidates they’re not always happy with. This is war and the Democrats will be playing pat-a-cake like every other election while the GOP is getting ready to pull out the big guns.

Posted by Mike | Report as abusive
 

This is exactly what the opponent republicans want… a divided party. Sad. The way GW has RUINED this country, so many of us refuse to come to grips with reality and race, and vote for the better of the 2. I am sad, but not surprised

Posted by chef | Report as abusive
 

Blah, blah, blah…No Clinton so I’m voting for McCain…absurd. Why vote at all if you don’t care about what a candidate stands for. She should have stayed in San Diego.

Posted by Brizzo | Report as abusive
 

Anonymous user obviously doesn’t have the courage of his right wing reactionary and might I say racist convictions. hence the name “anonymous” Hatred and fear just drip from your words. PUMA is sounding like the north bound end of a south bound mule! Michael N Hindin

Posted by Michael Hindin | Report as abusive
 

To clarify, this is solely about an individual and has nothing to do with this persons values being reflected by the candidates or what he/she thinks is best for the country. Right?

Posted by VIK | Report as abusive
 

Little minds use smear and fear when they have noting to offer.

Posted by Michael Hindin | Report as abusive
 

This election season is allowing us to see each other more clearly as US citizens – and it’s still surprising to me how ill-informed, selfish and mean a small fraction of people in my country have become. Hatred has always been a bad thing. We shouldn’t be fighting – we should be solving. Obama and Biden are the only real hope for my country to be a place for my kids to realize dignity. PUMA! – IDIOTS! STOP BEING AGAINST THINGS AND START BEING FOR THINGS!!!

Posted by Stanley Roberts | Report as abusive
 

I am a Clinton supporter and I have been appalled by the incredibly negative and unwarranted things which Obama’s supporters have written about her.I do not think Obama is qualified. Indeed, Obama has a very thin resume. Moreover, I think Obama betrayed the United States Constitution in reversing his position and voting for the FISA bill. Obama’s position on the FISA bill is reason enough for me not to vote for him. Obama’s turnabout on the FISA bill was especially appalling considering the fact that he was a constitutional law professor. The point is, Obama knew better.My stance on Obama and my disrespect of him has nothing to do with whether or not I am a loyal Democrat. I have been a Democrat for over thirty-four years and I have always voted for the Democratic candidate. Nevertheless, I am sure Obama’s supporters will hurl personal insults at me for pointing out Obama’s errors. But my loyalty to the United States Constitution trumps my political affiliation. In this case, Obama has inexcusably put our freedoms under the United States Constitution in jeopardy. Think of it this way. If one was repulsed by Bush’s evisceration of the United States Constitution then shouldn’t we be just as offended when someone else does it too? I think so even if that person is Obama.So, in my estimation, Obama is not a man of principle. Just look at his reversals on Exelon, the proposed Senate bipartisan immigration deal, campaign financing and the FISA bill. Those changes in position should make one wonder just what sort of change Obama has really been advocating for.Despite Obama’s numerous flaws, the idea of McCain as president is also utterly repugnant and remarkably, even more so than Obama. Basically, McCain would be Bush redux.This election is reason enough for me to disavow our political system. I would rather vote for other people (read Gore or Clark or Mickey Mouse) but I am sure I will ultimately vote for Obama, albeit with great reluctance. This will be an election of who is the least distasteful candidate. Yuck.One should note that Obama has already squandered the sizeable lead which he held after securing the Democratic nomination. I have seen Obama’s lead dissipate despite having a huge campaign war chest. The traditional battleground states of Missouri, Ohio and Florida also are leaning towards McCain’s camp. Obama is relying on winning states such as mine, Colorado. It will be difficult here.Hopefully, I will be proven wrong about Obama. I think Obama has the capacity to be a great president. But I have my doubts about his principles.As for PUMA, well it is stupid that some of them will vote for McCain. It would be better for them to vote for ‘none of the above.’

Posted by Ron | Report as abusive
 

Regards to the ‘gentleman’ who spewed about Michigan’s vote. Michigan is a sovereign state with the sovereign right to set its own election laws. For a ‘for profit’ corporation or any other legal stuffed shirt to arrogate otherwise is purest chutzpah, and should be punishable by law. Hillary won our state’s (Michigan’s) primary. Her name should be on the ballot in the fall as the nominee of the so called Democratic Party, any other nominee they put forth is irrelevant. If the Democrats want to run candidates in our state, they will have to comply with our laws or go to jail. We imprison more people than commie China, so there is always room for some more. Kinda like to see the DNC chairman in a Ronald McDonald suit in pink eating cat food and making little rocks out of big rocks or picking up trash along I-94. Alternatively since the DNC refused to recognize our right to hold our elections, we should refuse to allow any Democratic candidates to be on any ballot in the State of Michigan until and unless said DNC recognizes the legal superiority of the sovereign state of Michigan over any private entity in the running of elections here in Michigan. Let us see how the DNC would do without the support of our state and entertain any frail shred of hope for some kind of chimeric ‘victory’ in the general elections

Posted by Joe Smith | Report as abusive
 

I think some of these people are Republican plants. They are not delegates. Just today a Hillary delegate did a commerical for McCain, but she did not know McCain wants to reverse Roe V Wade. LOL

Posted by Daniel Michael | Report as abusive
 

A vote for McCain is a vote for the continued deterioration of the middle class.Perhaps these Hillary supporters are members of the $250,000/year “middle class” that Hill has spoken of.Of course, O is only a bit better. $150,000/year puts one in the top ten percent of the population. I don’t think I’d call that middle, unless I was trying to avoid some uncomfortable self-awareness.

Posted by marik7 | Report as abusive
 

How to garner the support of Clitonites:-suggest that the only reason that they will not support Obama is due to their being spiteful and puerile, and NOT because of any possibly substantive reasons.Yes, that is a splendid strategy! ROTFLMFAO!

Posted by jsvp | Report as abusive
 

Having Hillary as his VP would have certainly unified the party. She won 18mil votes, Biden about 5,000 votes. Yet this guy decides to go against the will of the mayority , and you OBAMANIACS still want me to lick my wounds, take a bow and vote for this empty suit? PUMA all the way, yest I’d rather stomack 4 more years of the Republicans, this one cannot be worse than Bush.

Posted by MIGUEL GOMEZ | Report as abusive
 

“Don’t cut off your nose to spite your face”I am a big Obama supporter, I admit, I was thinking of voting for McCain if Hillary won. But, things have changed so much. McCain, whom you and I once thought of as the maverick has showed a lot of true colors and I am totally appalled. Anyone else get the sense the man has lost his marbles? Lets sing a little ‘bomb Iran’ song on national television. Yeah … its catchy. McCain’s off his rocker!For all those clutching to ‘not qualified’, Obama is only the most qualified leader in a generation! Lets see, first pull yourself up by your own boot straps, get your Harvard education with highest honors, next go serve the disadvantaged inner city folks and risk getting your you-know-what blown off, take your fight for the working class to your state senate, attract admirers from the other team, serve in your nations senate and beat the entrenched powers that be with the most successful grass roots campaign ever and do it all before your 48 and ALL without the help of your Daddy or other family connections (Bush + McCain + Hillary). Sounds like your qualified by virtue of being a prodigy!I guess its all a matter of what you think makes one qualified. I like god given talent and leadership and wisdom. Some might like a long track record of being part and parcel of the political machine. Others still want a war hero. Of course U.Grant was a much more credentialed war hero then McCain, but as i recall he was a terrible president.For all those PUMA’s drumming the ‘not qualified’ argument go read his wiki. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obam a. Then get on with voting McCain so you can mourn the next four years.”The best thing about democracy is that we always get what we deserve!”

Posted by Julian | Report as abusive
 

You people just don’t get it. Obama just thumbed his nose at the Hillary people and refused to do the smart thing to unify the party. Poor judgement, if you ask me. If he can’t swallow his pride and put Hillary on the ticket with him and bring the party together, how will he deal with U.S. and world leaders? His unity shtick is a sham, and if you pay attention, he SAYS alot, but his actions don’t back him up. I’ve never paid closer attention in my life to an election and as a life-long Democrat I’m amazed myself that I’ll be voting for John McCain. If Obama wins, it will be on a soundbite, not based on anything real.

Posted by Chris E. | Report as abusive
 

Never underestimate the influence of racism in America. A real Democrat votes Democrat.

Posted by isaacsosa | Report as abusive
 

Ron your comments made me laugh. What exactly is Hillary’s qualification?1) Married to a President. So is Barbra Bush.2) Making a right hash up of Health policy that Bill gave her (she was unelected and so should not have been given this in the first place).3) Polarising – only interested in womens issues.4) Plays the woman card when needed – remember the tears.5) Dishonest – I was shot at by snipers etc.6) No personality whatsoever – Al Gore, John Kerry etc.These points contributed to the running of one of the most inept campaign that one could immagine from someone in a position of strengh!Obama certainly has his faults but Hilary lost fair and square. The fact that she was not man enough to admit it makes her look even less like a future leader.

Posted by nick | Report as abusive
 

This is such BS…Have you all not lived through the last 8 years? This country has been wounded and needs care. With the WAR, ECONOMY, COVER-UPS and all the rubbish that i know and i believe most of us cannot deny, why would anyone with any sense want McCant for our next leader??? If any of you have sons or daughters of the age that can be shipped off to some war that McCant decides needs to take place they may very well be drafted. This would be tragic, not just for us with these sons and daughters but for all the innocent victims of these wars. Think about these things before you make hasty decisions. Barack may not be perfect but he’s certainly the best i have seen in a long, long time. Don’t get me wrong Ms. Hillary was pretty damn good as well and i believe if she is true to herself she will be a force for all that is good for our country. One more thought, to the woman who was spewing rubbish about Barack being a closet Muslim, you certainly put yourself out there to be a ignorant hateful closet Republican. Mr. Matthews, my hat’s off to you for allowing her to be the fool…

Posted by Ramona O'B. | Report as abusive
 

Here we go again. It was the Soccer-Moms who kept George Bush in office because he made them feel safer. Now they plan to vote for McCain to ‘send an angry message’ because their person didn’t win. And all it will cost them is your reproductive rights.

Posted by Tim Shinn | Report as abusive
 

I find it remarkable that some women who are Clintonsupporters would even conceive of voting for John McCaine.Ms. Clinton respects a woman’s right to choose. Mr. McCaine promises to send a woman to prison if she refuses to carry the child of a rapist to term.It takes some “thinking” to be able to bridge the abortion debate so breathtakingly.

Posted by sgp | Report as abusive
 

Hell hath no fury like a womens scorn…It amazes me how bitter these PUMA activists are. And for those of you who are against FISA, do you really want to see another 9/11 in your lifetime?

Posted by Chris | Report as abusive
 

Well, There you have it folks. You can put that face with McCain if He gets elected. When McCain’s Foreign Policy’s causes us to loose a state,look in her direction. You think it’s bad now, you have no idea.

Posted by Chuck from Atlanta | Report as abusive
 

A vote for McCain is a vote for the continued deterioration of the middle class.Perhaps these Hillary supporters are members of the $250,000/year “middle class” that Hill has spoken of.Of course, O is only a bit better. $150,000/year puts one in the top ten percent of the population. I don’t think I’d call that middle, unless I was trying to avoid some uncomfortable self-awareness.- Posted by marik7How do you libs get away with being such clowns with the class warfare BS? Everyone strives (or should) to be more financially independent. Why should someone working hard to make money be punished and impugned for it?Further, BO would label anyone making 150k + wealthy and tax them to death. My wife and I make about that much combined, live in a small house in NJ, barely take home enough after Fed, NJ, SS and property taxes to pay bills, but BO wants to further punish us because some lib decided 150k sounds like a lot and that should be given to someone who didn’t work as hard for it. Keep your hands off my money and earn some for yourself.

Posted by Matt | Report as abusive
 

Wow. At the the risk of seeming churlish…one word: childish. OK–2 words, dangerously childish. “It’s not fair; I’m gonna play somewhere else…” (ie in the real bully’s yard.)

Posted by christine harker | Report as abusive
 

Abandon Obama/Clinton platforms that are so similar to spite what? Just not a good idea. Please re-think what you are really supportin, just a person, or the beliefs.

Posted by jeff | Report as abusive
 

I think that PUMA must be comprised of a lot of whining, racist, babies. During the Obama-Clinton campaigning, so many people remarked about how similar their two platforms were. Yes, it would be great if they could work together to support the shared cause. But there probably would be a lot of underlying tension, and a President does not need to look over his or her shoulder worrying about the Vice President. So rather than support the common causes that both Obama and Clinton want, these PUMA idiots would rather vote for GW’s candidate who will continue the same policiews that are ruining our economy and have weakened our position in the world. Yes, the hawkish armchair warrior who likes to disparage other countries and personally insult their leaders, who seems to be in big oil’s pocket, has left us with a weak dollar, a money-pit war in Iraq that does not seem to reap any benefits for the USA, the resurgence of the Taliban, a North Korea that is now trying to back off of its agreement to curtail its nuclear agreement (after GW paid them billions of our dollars!), an Iran that continually causes problems because it sees the USA as over-extended in Iraq and Afghanistan, a Russia that spits in our faces over Georgia because its sees that the USA has been weakened by GW’s policies, violence just across the border in Mexico that is affecting American security, long waits at the airport, high oil prices, inflation, and global warming. The PUMA idiots would rather vote for GW’s candidate McCain, because Clinton did not get on the ticket (or the nomination). They should stop whining and remember that they started as Democrats for a reason. Abandoning their values and voting for McCain is shooting their original beliefs, the need for a change, in the foot.

Posted by Byron | Report as abusive
 

From my European perspective the arguments of the woman just sound insane. Is this a children’s birthday party here or is this about America’s future? Komrad is right about the christmas present. What an immature bunch!

 

She acts like SHE was personally attacked during the primary. Only someone who felt personally snubbed could possibly go directly against her own self interests policy-wise and vote for McCain. This is a sad, sad video.

Posted by Ben | Report as abusive
 

no one likes a sore-loser.

Posted by J.W. | Report as abusive
 

I am happy to see a majority of these comments are in Obama’s favor. Wait… “Majority.” Isn’t that how Obama won. Weird. The primary this year was a hell of a lot better than the 2000 election. I could tell you that, and I couldn’t even vote then. Let’s cut the small talk and crap. Forget these spiteful feelings and please, put aside this racism. Let’s get Obama in the White House, because he is the only one (Hilary, McCain included) who can actually bring change in this race. We have all heard it before and it has never been more true. McCain is same shnit, different Republican. Hilary is out, so quit making the rift in the Dem party worse. Obama is our man, and he will do a hell of a lot better than any of you jokels.

Posted by Taboga | Report as abusive
 

Nick,First, Clinton did not support the FISA bill. Obama flipped flopped and disavowed his repeated opposition to the FISA bill and eventually supported it. As you already know, I think Obama betrayed the United States Constitution in supporting the FISA bill.Second, Clinton’s proposed health care plan was fully funded. Obama’s health care plan is not fully funded and its adoption will only result in its eventual insolvency. So I would rather support the establishment of a solvent program now rather than have my representatives have to deal with fixing an insolvent one later.Third, Clinton has a long record of having supported domestic initiatives protecting women and children.Fourth, Clinton has been a Senator far longer than Obama with far more legislative experience. Obama has only been a Senator for one term and does not have a lot of legislation that he wrote. Sure, Obama co-sponsored some legislation. And if you go back to Obama’s tenure in Illinois, voting ‘present’ on tough issues is not a sign of someone who will make a good leader.

Posted by Ron | Report as abusive
 

If she had run a smart, well discplined campaign then she would be the one accepting the nomination.She did not.She and the people she hired ran a camapaing assuming they were the presumptive nominee even before Iowa based on name recognition alone. They blew off the caucuses because Hilliary is not comfortable in front of small audiences talking about personal issues (the Moncia issue for one), and her campaign leadership were confused at times about the rules of the Democratic Party.Even now some her campaign staff can’t acknowledge they ran a very poor campaign despite the numerous articles using information from insiders.And that is the proverbial tip of the iceberg. Her chances of overcoming the Rove tactics from the extreme right would have been limited. Too much baggage in the Clinton closet to overcome.

Posted by Will | Report as abusive
 

PUMA is apparently another word for shooting yourself in the foot.

Posted by daveH | Report as abusive
 

Not one of these comments has mentioned the Supreme Court. With Justices Stevens and Ginsberg on the edge of retiring how can anyone think of putting a Republican in the White House. Even with a Democrat winning this next election and having the opportunity to perhaps appoint two Justices all we would do is keep the status quo. A McCain as he has promised would give us two more similiar or as he indicates even more conservative Justices than Alito and Roberts — appontments that will affect our country for years and years to come. I cringe at the thought.

Posted by R W Friendly | Report as abusive
 

This woman’s bitterness is disgusting! I don’t know what rock she’s been under for the last 8 years, but she is not a patriotic American nor Democrat. As much flaws as America may have, this election marks a turning point in American history and putting another war-mongerer in the White House will not (and has not) helped America.

Posted by Danielle | Report as abusive
 

Dear Michael Hindin:The truth stings, doesn’t it? And, by the way, have you ever heard that slapping denigrating labels on anything you don’t like is not exactly conductive for civilized discussion? Hope you’ll be able to answer these questions without resorting to more name calling and label slapping.Regards,Anonymous User

Posted by Anonymous User | Report as abusive
 

I think it is sad that you can go from Hillary to McCain.Shame on you for throwing away everything we have been fighting for just be cause Hillary cannot be president.The Constituition, the War, EVERYTHING! Women like you make us all look bad! We are fighting sooo hard and you are willing to throw it all away!

Posted by Virginia | Report as abusive
 

Lets put an end to this Obama’s not qualified argument. Obama is qualified by virtue of having DONE the things that that these other politicians will ONLY legislate about from way up in their capital city.Hillary big claim is experience passing legislation to help the working class. Obama experience is working for years directly with the poor and working class to ensure that they receive the help those laws promised. And by working directly with, I don’t mean focus groups and talking points, I mean he served them at the grass roots level.I take nothing away from Hillary. Legislating was how she choose to help and someone had to do it. But its analogous to celebrities holding a big banquet fundraiser and then sending the proceeds to help those in need. Its nice … its for a good cause … but lets not pretend that you sacrificed anything of great value. You spent a night partying for a good cause and now you want a medal?In the armed services you can’t become General without first having gone through boot camp. In other words, everyone starts at the bottom … basic training. The army is also unique in that you don’t get to be a good General without having been a good soldier, good officer, good next rank and so on.Obama came from the working-class, fought for the working-class as boots-on-the-ground then worked his way up the ladder to US senator. Now he’s an elitist that couldn’t possibly be effective because he’s only got rhetoric and no voting record (BS too, go see his wiki). But he doesn’t have 20 years of voting because 1) he’s only 47 and 2) while they where busy voting HE WAS BUSY DOING THE REAL WORK!So STFU about his experience and go vote for McCant so you can reap another 4 years of the same!

Posted by Julian | Report as abusive
 

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