Comments on: The First Draft: health care heat wave http://blogs.reuters.com/talesfromthetrail/2009/08/10/the-first-draft-health-care-heat-wave/ Tracking U.S. politics Wed, 16 Nov 2016 03:39:51 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: TC http://blogs.reuters.com/talesfromthetrail/2009/08/10/the-first-draft-health-care-heat-wave/comment-page-1/#comment-394974 Fri, 14 Aug 2009 00:02:51 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/frontrow/?p=18909#comment-394974 getplaning. Your “Reuters” story says to me that Mexico is a destination for “good deals”, whether it be for a vacation, inexpensive housing on the ocean, trinkets and yes, even health care. All you prove is that people use Mexico to get good deals, no matter what the reason. That won’t stop anytime soon.

The second thing it tells me is that the Mexican clinics will be overflowing with people when they are denied health care in the United States with a “universal” system. When the government health care “accountant” says you can’t have a procedure because you are too old or it is too expensive for the government to pay, you can bet people will flock to Mexico like never before. It will make today’s “good deal” seekers pale in comparison.

So thank you for bringing up an option that will not only enrich Mexico, but will provide the medical care people younger than 15 and older than 40 won’t get under the plan the administration and congress want to force on us.

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By: getplaning http://blogs.reuters.com/talesfromthetrail/2009/08/10/the-first-draft-health-care-heat-wave/comment-page-1/#comment-394921 Thu, 13 Aug 2009 20:56:31 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/frontrow/?p=18909#comment-394921 Here’s your truth, TC. Facts, not opinion.

http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticN ews/idUSTRE57C40C20090813

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By: TC http://blogs.reuters.com/talesfromthetrail/2009/08/10/the-first-draft-health-care-heat-wave/comment-page-1/#comment-394851 Thu, 13 Aug 2009 00:35:31 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/frontrow/?p=18909#comment-394851 Nice try getplaning. Thank you for the truth Susan Bracken.

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By: getplaning http://blogs.reuters.com/talesfromthetrail/2009/08/10/the-first-draft-health-care-heat-wave/comment-page-1/#comment-394824 Wed, 12 Aug 2009 18:59:15 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/frontrow/?p=18909#comment-394824 If Canada’s single-payer system is such a disappointment, why have repeated Conservative governments at the provincial and national level in Canada never touched it? Is Canada a socialist country? If Canadians don’t like their health care system, why haven’t they gotten rid of it in 35 years? Since the system there is run by the separate provinces, many of which are very politically conservative, why has not one province ever tried to get rid of single-payer?

The executives of Canadian subsidiaries of US companies all support Canada’s single-payer system, and even lobby collectively to have it expanded and better funded. So your arguments are patently false, as is your accusation that poster Janelle and the other Canadians contributing to this thread are paid by SEIU or ACORN. Right wing paranoia at its best.

But your argument that people are flooding into the United States for our superior healthcare is also patently false. In fact, the reality is quite the opposite. The American Academy of Orthopedic Surgeons reports that as many 500,000 people per year seek care overseas. How many people from Canada come to the United States each year to pay for services? A few, to be sure, those who can afford it.

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By: Susan Bracken http://blogs.reuters.com/talesfromthetrail/2009/08/10/the-first-draft-health-care-heat-wave/comment-page-1/#comment-394812 Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:03:26 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/frontrow/?p=18909#comment-394812 I disagree with the idea that Sarah’s fears are unfounded.

Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel is Obama’s policy advisor on health care reform, the special adviser for health care at the Office of Management and Budget. He is also a member of Federal Council on Comparative Effectiveness Research that is taking a preliminary look at what procedures will be covered on whom with an eye towards cost cutting.

Please look at this quote from this man, and try to tell me Palin’s fears are unfounded. He explicitly states that care should not be guaranteed for someone with Palin’s daughter’s condition, downs syndrome:

“Conversely, services provided to individuals who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens are not basic and should not be guaranteed. An obvious example is not guaranteeing health services to patients with dementia. A less obvious example Is is guaranteeing neuropsychological services to ensure children with learning disabilities can read and learn to reason.”

http://www.ncpa.org/pdfs/Where_Civic_Rep ublicanism_and_Deliberative_Democracy_Me et.pdf

Source: “Where Civic Republicanism and Deliberative Democracy Meet”, hastings center, 1996 (see link).

Another quote:

“When implemented, the complete lives system produces a priority curve on which individuals aged between roughly 15 and 40 years get the most substantial chance, whereas the youngest and oldest people get chances that are attenuated”

source: ‘Principles of allocation of scarce medical interventions’, January 31, 2009

For details about how this fits in with Obama’s “death panel”, look at this section from a wallstreet journal article:

http://sbk.online.wsj.com/article/SB1000 1424052970203609204574312451234786752.ht ml

McCaughey: It means reductions in hip replacements, knee replacements, bypass surgery, angioplasty…

Gigot: Doctors are not going to stop prescribing these things.

McCaughey: In the stimulus package was a provision for computers to be in doctors’ offices and hospitals at bedside–computers that would deliver protocols to doctors electronically on what the government deems cost-effective and appropriate care. There will be penalties for doctors who are not meaningful users of this system. The president appointed Dr. David Blumenthal national coordinator of health information technology, and he’s going to oversee ensuring that doctors obey these protocols. In The New England Journal of Medicine he wrote an article describing how he’s going do it.

Gigot: Won’t Congress push back?

McCaughey: Well, that’s why Peter Orszag, head of the Office of Management and Budget, part of the White House–went to Congress earlier this week and asked for permission to remove those decisions from Congress. He asked Congress to delegate the authority to make these decisions about what Medicare covers and how doctors are paid instead to a body outside of Congress, either MedPAC–a body that already exists, an advisory board–or a council created within the White House. […]

I don’t believe we can count on the doctors that would be appointed to this to make the right decisions because, for example, the doctors that the president has already chosen to be his chief health advisers are ardent advocates of limiting care for the elderly. Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, for example–brother of president’s chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel– has written that the elderly should get less care, that Americans are too enamored with high-tech care, and that people who have incurable illnesses–and he uses the example of dementia–should not be guaranteed health care because they no longer contribute to society.

(end quotation)
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More evidence that Sarah has good reason to worry can be seen in Obama’s choice of “Science Czar”, John Holdren, Director of the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy.

Obama’s Science Czar wrote a book explicitly advocating forced abortions and mass sterilization. See:

http://zombietime.com/john_holdren/

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By: TC http://blogs.reuters.com/talesfromthetrail/2009/08/10/the-first-draft-health-care-heat-wave/comment-page-1/#comment-394799 Wed, 12 Aug 2009 04:01:41 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/frontrow/?p=18909#comment-394799 Actually, you are speaking through people you don’t know. I am speaking about people I know who personally experience the disappointments and rejection of health care in Canada. I see and visit with my relatives and see what they experience and they all (okay there is always someone who doesn’t care either way…) say we don’t want to go down that road. They aren’t praising their so called FREE health care. Also, they love the letters from the government saying that because they reach a a milestone in their age that they are no longer covered for a whole host of procedures. Wow…such a wonderful system they have.

It doesn’t matter what you think because you continue to prove your ignorance of the reality of government health care and the polls. People are not with you in your thinking no matter how much you try to twist the numbers. The majority of Americans agree with everything I have been saying.

BTW, there is no way of knowing if Janelle is Canadian or not. I suspect she works for ACORN or a union and is being paid to spread lies about socialistic medicine.

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By: getplaning http://blogs.reuters.com/talesfromthetrail/2009/08/10/the-first-draft-health-care-heat-wave/comment-page-1/#comment-394796 Wed, 12 Aug 2009 03:18:51 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/frontrow/?p=18909#comment-394796 Judging by the many posts from Canadians like Janelle, it would appear that YOUR story isn’t accurate. Ask any Canadian or Briton to trade their health sytem for the one in the United States, they will laugh in your face.

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By: TC http://blogs.reuters.com/talesfromthetrail/2009/08/10/the-first-draft-health-care-heat-wave/comment-page-1/#comment-394789 Wed, 12 Aug 2009 00:28:07 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/frontrow/?p=18909#comment-394789 getplaning. It’s funny, you are a lemming. See what I say and then you either emulate it “flattered” (That’s emulating me) or you destroy once I prove what you attempt to debunk. Just the facts, you are a reactor and add nothing to the discussion already in process when you arrive.

As for the Canadian above. You do play every single month for all the social programs you have. I know taxes hover around 50 percent of every dollar you make. So, to say it is free is a lie, you pay dearly. I have a lot of family in Canada and they have always felt it stinks. I have an aunt who has to wait 4 years…..4 YEARS to get a FREE procedure done. In the meantime she has to live in pain. Well, that isn’t entirely accurate. In Alberta there are is a private clinic and if she wants to pay 2000 dollars she will get the procedure done now. Guess that Canadian health care isn’t so wonderful afterall.

In addition, my relatives come down here when they need health care now because they have to wait so long to get any sort of cut rate care in Canada. Well, you get what you pay for, I guess. Sorry, but I know the facts in Canada and your story isn’t accurate.

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By: getplaning http://blogs.reuters.com/talesfromthetrail/2009/08/10/the-first-draft-health-care-heat-wave/comment-page-1/#comment-394774 Tue, 11 Aug 2009 20:07:21 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/frontrow/?p=18909#comment-394774 TC, you can hold on to your one Rasmussen poll, I’ll take the other 12 polls plus the last two elections. Do I really twist numbers by posting a link to 12 opinion polls? Tell us how that works. The facts are what do the debunking, not your opinion, or your one issue poll from a well known conservative pollster.
By the way, I’m flattered by your obsession with my postings. My best to brian.

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By: Janelle http://blogs.reuters.com/talesfromthetrail/2009/08/10/the-first-draft-health-care-heat-wave/comment-page-1/#comment-394763 Tue, 11 Aug 2009 18:31:16 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/frontrow/?p=18909#comment-394763 You guys are all totally crazy. I’m a dual citizen of Canada and America, and up here we think the hysteria and vitriol about this is just absurd. We have awesome health care–choice to go to any doctor, for free. I pay nothing a month in Alberta for health insurance. I can get generic drugs for a quarter of the cost of the name-brand you buy (and are lured to buy through television ads) in the States. It is not a communist system! Doctors here aren’t influenced by making more money–they are focused on what they should be focused on–making people better.
Your system is ridiculous given how world-class America is in so many other ways. Give up the idea that the government running something is scary and you will get infinitely better care. So what if your taxes go up? You’ll save far more money anyway by not having to pay some giant insurance company hundreds of dollars every month.
No one euthanizes us here. Everyone has freedom to the care they want. No one loses their life savings because they get cancer. It’s a glorious system. Canada isn’t perfect in other ways, but our health care is pretty sweet.

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