Comments on: Poll finds a majority for ‘public option’ Tracking U.S. politics Wed, 16 Nov 2016 03:39:51 +0000 hourly 1 By: getplaning Sun, 15 Nov 2009 20:51:33 +0000 Sam, you are wasting your time trying to get TC to see the light. He is incapable of honest debate, as I have shown over and over again. The rest of us know what the truth is.

By: TC Tue, 27 Oct 2009 03:41:34 +0000 I didn’t say “individual” trees, you made that up. But I can see you are petty and this will be the last time I respond to you on this thread. I do not like petty people and you are one who will stoop to those levels, just to prove you are smarter than everyone else when in reality you are just petty…

You have done nothing to disprove my point. If the polls were accurate, then we would have health care “reform’ already. I see the Harry Reid is about to “force” a public option on the majority who do not want it. In fact, 54 percent don’t want anything to do with any plan mucking about in congress,

The fact of the matter is public option or not, the people are not in favor of the democratic version of health reform. That makes the public option a false argument because since the majority of Americans do not want any version of the administration or congresses health care “fix”, that means it doesn’t matter what they put in it…the people don’t want it. That’s a fact and not open to discussion. I follow the only poll that is consistently correct (proven)…Rasmussen. You can go and see the truth about health care there.

Have a nice day, you will now be arguing with yourself….I really don’t have time for petty people….

By: Sam Tue, 27 Oct 2009 00:54:05 +0000 TC-It’s “the forest for the trees”–don’t know how you’d get a forest between individual trees. anyway…

The American legislative process and the electoral process are both examples of representative democracy–in both instances, representatives for the people stand
in to make the final decision. So again, this is not a democracy but a representative democracy, and the will of the people, while pandered to at time, is not always
respected. This–not pudding–explains the disconnect between the polls and the pols.

Alexander Hamilton helped to set up the electoral college precisely because he didn’t trust “the mob” and thought a few wise men would make more rational decisions–doesn’t that sounds elitist?

The problem in my opinion is that there is too much distance between politicians and the people. This includes lobbyists acting on behalf of special interests
(such as hospitals and insurance companies) and a corporate media that is more interested in accurately reporting what people think about balloon boy than what people think about health care reform.

By: TC Sat, 24 Oct 2009 14:58:57 +0000 sam. My point stands. In the legislative process, the politicians run with the polls. If it were true that the vast “majority” really were in favor of the health care mess mucking around in congress, it would have passed “easily” by now. But you can see it hasn’t because they are well aware of the outrage in this country toward their policies. Once again, 56 percent want nothing to do with anything they have to offer. Guess what? The proof is in the pudding. But they can always force it on us, which is what is appears they are trying to do…

As for your Al Gore comment. As you are aware, our presidents are elected by way of the electoral college. George Bush won the election according to the rules set forth by our founders. By these rules, Al Gore did not win the election even though the big cities in the west put him over the top. The electoral college was a stoke of genious set up by our founders to ensure every state, based on population, had a voice in the election of our presidents. That’s the way it should be and it is that way. You are mixing apples and oranges by comparing the legislative process with the electoral process.

Once again, if the clear majority of Americans wanted this health care mess in congress, then we would already have it. We don’t because people don’t want it and congress knows it….Just the way it is.

Show me some more numbers, but it doesn’t change anything. It just makes you feel better…You need to see the forest between the trees…

By: sam Sat, 24 Oct 2009 10:42:59 +0000 TC-if you’re going to call a poll inaccurate you should have a legitimate reason (e.g., low sample size, non-representative sampling, misleading questions, implausible trends). Simply dismissing all of these polls as “liberal” and pulling out of the ether a magical 54% in the other direction sounds like Glenn Beck.

For example: The July Fox News Poll on health care appears to be political. It samples 34% republicans and 40% democrats based on a list of registered voters rather than the general population. Based on citations from Wikipedia, recently 34-36% of Americans self-identify as democrats and 20-26% self-identify as republicans. So, intentionally or not, Fox inflates the number of democrats by 11% and republicans by 31% (using the high end of the range for each group)–an artificial overestimate of republican opinion in their survey.

Further, they ask very politically-polarizing questions (whether you want Obama to succeed, if there should be unaccountable czars in Obama’s administration) before getting to the public option question–sometimes asking the same question twice in a slightly different way.
Then their question on the public option makes no mention of the fact that it’s optional–only that it’s government run and competing with private insurance. 09_poll.pdf
Compared with every one of the polls I cited, this appears closer to a push poll (designed to influence opinion) rather than an attempt to honestly measure a representative sample of the American public.

As for the realpolitik of passing legislation, you should know that in a representative democracy, the people do not always get what they want. Did Al Gore who won the popular vote by 500,000 become president in 2001? There is no such thing as “slam dunk” in politics, and republicans are so much better at playing dirty when they are in the minority–actually when they are in the majority as well.

By: TC Sat, 24 Oct 2009 01:10:30 +0000 sam. Thanks for all the indisputable poll numbers. Well, if they really measured the mood of Americans, then this health care plan mucking through congress would be a slam dunk. It would have already passed and congress and president would have already forced their garbage on the majority who do not want what they have to offer.

You can see they are in real trouble. The numbers you provide to not show the truth.

I am not concerned with your liberal polls. The president and congress know those polls are garbage….54 percent do not want any health care fiasco mucking through congress…

By: sam Fri, 23 Oct 2009 07:59:19 +0000 So you don’t trust this single poll? How about 8 polls??

All of the following polls demonstrate consistent public majority support for either a public option, medicare-type program, or some government-run competition to the private insurance industry. While this support declined in some polls during the summer (in my opinion, do to negative coverage associated with town hall meetings and misinformation campaigns), it has rebounded recently,and remains the majority opinion.

EBRI, a leading authority on health care industry issues found overwhelming support (83%!) for the public option back in June. HCS_09.pdf

CNN/Opinion Research Corporation Poll. Oct. 16-18, 2009. N=1,038 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3.

“Now thinking specifically about the health insurance plans available to most Americans, would you favor or oppose creating a public health insurance option administered by the federal government that would compete with plans offered by private health insurance companies?”

Favor Oppose Unsure
% % %

61 38 1

55 41 4

ABC News/Washington Post Poll. Oct. 15-18, 2009. N=1,004 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3.5.

“Would you support or oppose having the government create a new health insurance plan to compete with private health insurance plans?”

Support Oppose Unsure
% % %

57 40 3

55 42 3

52 46 2

62 33 5

CBS News Poll. Oct. 5-8, 2009. N=829 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3 (for all adults).
“Would you favor or oppose the government offering everyone a government-administered health insurance plan — something like the Medicare coverage that people 65 and older get — that would compete with private health insurance plans?”

Favor Oppose Unsure
% % %

62 31 7

65 26 9

60 34 6

66 27 7

64 29 7

72 20 8

Ipsos/McClatchy Poll conducted by Ipsos Public Affairs. Oct. 1-5, 2009. N=1,296 adults nationwide. MoE ± 2.7.

“One of the points being debated is whether or not the government should create a public health insurance plan as an alternative to private insurance plans. Which of the following is closest to your opinion? It is necessary to create a public health insurance plan to make sure that all Americans have access to quality health care. Access to quality health care for all Americans can be achieved without having to create a public health insurance plan.”

Is Necessary Not Necessary Unsure
% % %

53 42 5

49 46 5

52 44 4

Quinnipiac University Poll. Sept. 29-Oct. 5, 2009. N=2,630 registered voters nationwide. MoE ± 1.9.

“Do you support or oppose giving people the option of being covered by a government health insurance plan that would compete with private plans?”

Support Oppose Unsure
% % %

9/29 – 10/5/09
61 34 6

7/27 – 8/3/09
62 32 6

69 26 5

Pew Research Center Poll. Sept. 30-Oct. 4, 2009. N=1,500 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3 (for all adults).

“Now I’d like to ask you about some of the specific proposals being considered to address health care. Would you favor or oppose [see below]?”

Favor Oppose Unsure
% % %
“A government health insurance plan to compete with private health insurance plans”

9/30 – 10/4/09
55 38 8

52 37 10

NBC News/Wall Street Journal Poll conducted by the polling organizations of Peter Hart (D) and Bill McInturff (R). Sept. 17-20, 2009. N=1,005 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3.1 (for all adults).

“And thinking about one aspect of the debate on health care legislation — In any health care proposal, how important do you feel it is to give people a choice of both a public plan administered by the federal government and a private plan for their health insurance: extremely important, quite important, not that important, or not at all important?” Half sample (Form A), MoE ± 4.4

Not That
Not at All
% % % % %

48 25 8 15 4

41 35 12 8 4

By: TC Fri, 23 Oct 2009 01:15:15 +0000 sam. The poll is not accurate. But since you wish it to be so, then it must be so.

54 percent do not want the public option or any other plan mucking through congress. This has nothing to do with Bush, but it does have to do with what Americans want.

Don’t worry, the people in power know the poll in this article isn’t not even close to how Americans feel. You supporters are in the majority.

However, it really might not matter because this bunch in power are only interested in their own agenda and not what the people really want and they don’t want anything being forced on us.

You won’t like the result, no matter how much you think you do.

BTW Sam, this president has given us a 1.4 trillion deficit in a short 9 months. If you think we can afford this health care fiasco, then you are sticking your head in the sand about the problems this will create…Seen the dollar lately and the price of gold? Probably not…

By: sam Thu, 22 Oct 2009 20:45:53 +0000 TC–the fact that there is such a gap in the number of people in the survey who identified as democrats versus republicans does not mean the poll is inaccurate. There has been a downward trend in the number of people who identify as republican in the past year–as more people identify as independent or no party, so this is not surprising. I mean, seriously, what do you expect given what bush and the republicans delivered over 8 years?

I’m sure those numbers will change if Obama and the democrats don’t accomplish much within the next few months. So if you feel that strongly about being right, just pray for a second Great Depression.

By: TC Thu, 22 Oct 2009 02:39:48 +0000 Eric. Wow! You become emboldened when you see a poll that “appears” to state fact. It doesn’t. 13 percent more democrats were polled in that Post/ABC poll. The majority of Americans do not want the “public option” or any of the other plans mucking through congress.

54 percent of Americans do not want government health insurance.

What is happening now in congress is that they are attempting to “force” what most
Americans do not want.

You can say “screw you”, that is exactly the kind of low class of people like you are on the liberal left. It’s all about name calling and character assassination with people like you.

Yeah, isn’t it great to have a congress and an administration who don’t care what people want…

I am willing to bet you eat your words about the mess Obama will leave us….