Comments on: As the U.S. prepares to vote, the world watches http://blogs.reuters.com/thinking-global/2012/10/11/as-the-u-s-prepares-to-vote-the-world-watches/ Mon, 20 May 2013 19:02:41 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: nikacat http://blogs.reuters.com/thinking-global/2012/10/11/as-the-u-s-prepares-to-vote-the-world-watches/#comment-170 Mon, 15 Oct 2012 10:37:56 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/thinking-global/?p=140#comment-170 A good post by Frederick Kempe and some thought provoking reader comments. This sort of dialogue is why I continue to rate Reuters as one of my major news sources.

Although Reuters hews the liberal line in many of its headline stories, if you dig a little deeper, as in the present case, the news service is definitely a cut above the so-called main stream media.

Keep up the good work Reuters! (Even though a bit liberal.)

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By: OneOfTheSheep http://blogs.reuters.com/thinking-global/2012/10/11/as-the-u-s-prepares-to-vote-the-world-watches/#comment-169 Sat, 13 Oct 2012 06:16:35 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/thinking-global/?p=140#comment-169 @Gordon2352,

I went to your link and found much intrigue, dishonesty, claims to divine purpose, racism, virtually all of the dark side of humanity. What I did NOT find was any logical support for your obvious hatred of this country.

You say that “…poverty…is where the vast majority of this country’s population have been for most of the 200+ years of this nation’s proud “democracy”. I’m sorry, but that is just plain silly.

The “average American” by any reasonable metric has lived a life of relative luxury when compared to anywhere else at a given point of time. For many, many years, America was the only country in which the “poor” drove!

And, by the way, in every country and society in every time there has been a “wealthy class”. From them have traditionally come the vision, organization, management and funds for necessary development.

In America we don’t envy them, pursue them and chop their heads off. Quite the contrary. We aspire to succeed and join them. We genuinely believe we can. We work, in general, harder, longer and smarter than our peers in other countries. Our productivity, both individual and collectively is very high.

That means, in most years, our economic “pie” is bigger than the year before. Whenn that bigger pie is divided, each seated around “our” table gets more; proof positive that our “system” not only works, but works WELL! It has long been the better, by far, of genuinely available choices. Is it perfect? No.

But some would say perfection is for God, and you and I are but mere humans; as are those around us. It is enough that we can do our personal best.

In Europe and elsewhere one’s upward path was through family lineage and connections, intrigue, betrayal, war…absolutely nothing predictable or admirable. The “best and brightest” did not wind up “running things”. Each “new order” was merely a different hand on the knife carving up the same, unchanged economic “pie”.

You don’t look at the life we live today and arbitrarily dismiss the path of history. The lives and individual productivity of Americans have so consistently outperformed every other contemporary society that nations have sent their “best and brightest” to try and divine what America’s “secret” was.

You ask: “Why hire existing US labor — Black slaves, for example, after the Civil War ended when you can import cheaper labor through a system that creates new slaves to be ground under for “progress”.

Before there was the term” Manifest destiny”, Americans were bringing “cheap labor…black slaves” here from Africa. But ultimately more and more of those slaves
would find freedom in these United States at least for their descendants.

Immigrants from China were brought in, yes, as “cheap labor”, but stayed and have done quite well in their adopted society. So have the Italians and the Irish.

You seem to dismiss the reality that before the arrival of Europeans in America, American Indians made war on each other and took horses, blankets, slaves and brides. In Africa it was blacks who captured and sold blacks into slavery. Europeans have fought and enslaved one another since the Roman Empire and classical Greece, as have the Chinese. It is not America that is thus indicted, but a “fatal flaw” in humanity itself forever awaiting opportunity.

So if the initial price were high, conditions harsh and success elusive or long delayed, in each case these people’s descendants work alongside other Americans, go to the same schools, fight in the same wars, compete for the same jobs, drive the same cars, and shop in the same malls. Their hopes and dreams are the same any American. It is THIS which has been the reality of the American psyche.

I’ll agree that it is time to restore constraints on individual excess; whether it be on “too big to fail” companies, whole industries whose contracts require Americans to forfeit their right to a jury in case of dispute. It should be someone’s :job” to reign in medical monopolies, a privileged political class who give themselves indefensible raises, the union bureaucrat class, as well as union teachers, firefighters, postmen, etc. that have no genuine advocate of “we, the people” across from them at the negotiating tables.

But nobody’s stepping up to “the plate”. I’m not sure how to fix that. But I’m sure it’s possible. Since, in the end, the greatest recurring threat is human nature itself, we can’t “fix” that merely by changing governments.

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By: Gordon2352 http://blogs.reuters.com/thinking-global/2012/10/11/as-the-u-s-prepares-to-vote-the-world-watches/#comment-168 Fri, 12 Oct 2012 17:08:39 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/thinking-global/?p=140#comment-168 By the way, in another Reuters article, which has since been pulled, someone disputed my claim that this country is “fatally flawed”, and cannot continue as it is.

Manifest Destiny is that “fatal flaw”.

It underlies everything this country does as a nation, even today, as the article points out.

If you want to understand the real truth about what is going on in this country, you MUST read Manifest Destiny in its entirety.

It details and explains the American psyche as it really is — the dark underbelly of what we really are as a nation and a people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_de stiny

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By: Gordon2352 http://blogs.reuters.com/thinking-global/2012/10/11/as-the-u-s-prepares-to-vote-the-world-watches/#comment-167 Fri, 12 Oct 2012 16:45:30 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/thinking-global/?p=140#comment-167 I just noticed there is a broken link in my comment above. It is vital you understand what I mean so I am resending the link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_de stiny

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By: Gordon2352 http://blogs.reuters.com/thinking-global/2012/10/11/as-the-u-s-prepares-to-vote-the-world-watches/#comment-166 Fri, 12 Oct 2012 16:33:08 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/thinking-global/?p=140#comment-166 @ OneOfTheSheep —

Yes, I understand full well a decision not to vote still has consequences, but I find I can no longer support this government’s political system.

In my view, a vote cast for either side would be seen as an affirmation of what they are doing and I will not do that. Look at it as my own personal way of protesting this regime.

Essentially, this government has degenerated to the point where it is simply a disgraceful public display of two groups of the wealthy class fighting over the spoils of this country that BOTH parties helped destroy.

What they — and, indeed, all governments — never seem to learn is they remain in power at the pleasure of the people they are in power to serve, not just the wealthy class that has the most political clout.

The problem lies in human nature and can never be changed, only controlled. The problem arises when one group gains sufficient power over another by whatever means. When that occurs at a certain point, they will inevitably abuse that power.

The problem right now is the wealthy class, which was relatively restrained during the Great Depression — due mainly to strict trade and banking regulations — has once again manged to throw off those restraints.

What you and the American people don’t seem to realize is the that the decades after WWII were a huge anomaly in this country’s pathetic history of human rights violations. You will realize it quite soon.

The war loosened their economic and political restraints, and because they needed to poor to fight for them, the wealthy class presented their “Chinese face” to the American people, meaning everything they said and did was done with duplicity to gain their power back again. The inevitable “will to power” began to assert itself immediately after WWII.

While the US was growing in the decades after WWII, the rise of the middle class — a social and economic phenomenon which had never happened before in this country — tended to act as a brake on their rise to power.

However, by the 1970s the acceleration of free trade had already begun to take its toll on the US economy as the wealthy began to outsource jobs to the global economy, mainly Japan at that point.

Since then, especially with the rise of free trade with China in the early 1980s, the wealthy class has made tremendous progress in throwing off their remaining restraints.

For example, combining commercial banking with investment banking, which had been specifically forbidden to them since the early 1930s, mainly because it was one of the major reasons for the 1920s speculative rise in the stock markets and responsible for the market crash of 1929.

Along with that, they continually worked to remove trade restrictions that hampered their profits, until finally they managed to convince the American people that “free trade” was a good thing, and not the massive scam it really is. Yes, “real” free trade as outlined by Adam Smith is a good thing that benefits both parties, but this is not free. It is a twisted version of neo-con free trade, which benefits only the wealthy.

Finally, due to the massive profits coming in from unlimited free trade and favorable banking regulations, they accumulated enough political power to begin working on tax legislation to support their clandestine efforts to regain their power to what it was before they caused this country to crash in 1929 through their own greed and stupidity.

Now, they are nearly back at their full power.

Only the final changes in tax regulations remain — to shift the burden of taxation fully onto the middle class who they now see as a drain on the US economy, instead of an asset — to make it complete, which will drive the middle class into poverty once again, which is where the vast majority of this country’s population have been for most of the 200+ years of this nation’s proud “democracy”.

Our own history shows where we are going, and it will not be pretty if/when the wealthy succeed in going backwards in time, which is clearly their intent.

What most people don’t understand is that for most of its history this country has been no better than a third world country with a history of terrible exploitation of the poor by the wealthy class. Name a class of people — American Indians, Blacks, Europeans, Chinese, Hispanic, etc. — and this country has exploited them on a regular basis.

Why would you expect it to be any different now? If you think the wealthy class has changed, you haven’t been paying attention to what they are saying. And I don’t mean the political rhetoric, which is designed solely to placate the middle class fears. For example, the classic example is the quotations by Romney and Rice in the above article, which is clearly out of place with the overall tone if what is being said. The problem is the middle class has grown uneasy with their government, which is a good thing, but they don’t understand the reason for their unease, which is a bad thing.

There is truth in the old saying that those who don’t remember history are always forced to repeat it, or some variation of it. Even the wealthy revisionist version of it taught in schools cannot completely conceal the excesses of the wealthy class in the mistreatment of the immigrant populations coming here in the expectation of better living and working conditions.

Much of the immigration was supported by the wealthy class who desperately needed cheap labor. For example, the wealthy advertised and often paid for in advance ship passage for many European immigrants, who were then indebted to the wealthy who brought them here under false pretenses, thus creating a condition little better than slavery for most through “indentured servitude”. Solely, because the wealthy class wanted cheap labor as the country expanded westward.

Why hire existing US labor — Black slaves, for example, after the Civil War ended when you can import cheaper labor through a system that creates new slaves to be ground under for “progress” — this was the essence of the US “Manifest Destiny” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_d estiny) that has permeated the wealthy class since the country was formed, to grow at the expense of anyone or anything that got in the way of the wealthy class in their drive to power.

The truth about this much-vaunted “immigrant society” is that those who came for the promise of a better life were the victims of a massive scam that destroyed their way of life and forced them into ghettos by the wealthy class, all for the sake of profits.

That is the ugly truth that lies beneath what is happening now — the wealthy want that kind of Social Darwinism power once again.

Why would I vote for system that intends to do that to this country as soon as it can?

I know nothing I can say will change anyone’s mind, hence my frustration, but I am compelled to say it nevertheless. I do not understand why.

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By: OneOfTheSheep http://blogs.reuters.com/thinking-global/2012/10/11/as-the-u-s-prepares-to-vote-the-world-watches/#comment-165 Fri, 12 Oct 2012 07:41:10 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/thinking-global/?p=140#comment-165 Yes, excellent article, facts, observations. Kudos!

@Gordon2352,

A vote not cast still has consequences. In a choice between bad and worse, I will vote for the “bad”.

Why? BECAUSE I DON’T WANT WORSE. One thing that makes this easier…neither side will be able to claim a “mandate”.

I just wish I could put a name to “bad” and “worse”. I am still “undecided”.

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By: Gordon2352 http://blogs.reuters.com/thinking-global/2012/10/11/as-the-u-s-prepares-to-vote-the-world-watches/#comment-164 Thu, 11 Oct 2012 21:37:24 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/thinking-global/?p=140#comment-164 Very well written article. Thank you.

It is a pleasure to read (for a change) an article written by someone who understands the true position of this nation right now, as well as its challenges going into the future.

I will not vote for either candidate since I do not care to lend my support to either faction that is clearly destroying this nation.

I would vote for anyone who says what you just did and mean it, of course.

I do not put much stock in what politicians say, thus I view your quotations from Romney and Rice as nothing more than political rhetoric, which we do not need.

Your article would have been much better without the quotations from these people.

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