A motion at the National Union of Teachers annual conference wants a campaign to stop all military “recruitment” in schools. It says the Ministry of Defence is luring youngsters, often from deprived areas, into the armed forces.
Last year, Scotland’s biggest teaching union, the EIS, also voted to call for such a ban, claiming the military was trying to boost its falling numbers — caused by the unpopularity of the Iraq and Afghan campaigns — by targeting impressionable teenagers
The ministry says it is invited into about 1,000 schools a year and that it goes to inform rather than recruit.
The Conservatives call the NUT campaign “a kick in the teeth for our boys in the front line” and say the teachers should be concentrating on education.
Do you think the MoD should be going into schools? Would you be happy if your child attended a talk outlining the advantages of a military career?
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48 comments so far
Whar a load of rubbish, if this is the standard of teacher, it’s no wonder most of our children are unable to read write etc, I learnt more from my time in the army than at any school.
Stick to what you know, (nothing) and leave those who what to progess in life to make their own choices.
It’s no wonder that the country is in the state it is, teach the kids about reality not a left wing version of how you think it is.
- Posted by HarryTeachers have always welcomed the Forces into schools in the past as it gives them a ready-made careers lesson that they don’t have to put any personal effort into.
Now all of a sudden they’re up in arms because the war is against their delicate sensibilities? Ahh, bless.
Like Harry said - stick to teaching.
- Posted by IvanWhy not recruit?, Travel, Discipline, Friendship, Fitness, and a trade to use when you come out!
It seems to me that the Army has a lot more to offer than these “Teachers”!
- Posted by SemoreIt’s true what they say - “Those that can, do, those that can’t, teach”. As an ex soldier I agree with Harry’s comments. Being a soldier isn’t glamorous - it never has been. Those that serve are under no illusion about what it is they are being trained to do. Teachers should stick to what they’re paid to do - do not politicise teaching!
- Posted by DannyWell said Harry, no soldier is put on the front line until they are ready and 18 to my knowledge, So why are our teachers being so un-patriotic? My time in the forces gave me an education to a very high standard and a fierce loyalty to England, the UK and the Queen, all of which the current powers that be and the educators seem to think is a bad thing. When are the normal people of this great country going to stand up and stop the loonies making the rules?
- Posted by drewI am a teacher and I have no problem with the armed forces going into schools. I think it instils a certain amount of respect for soldiers which they most certainly deserve. I disagree that the armed forces use schools as a recruiting ground. For a few students it is a viable career path but for most students it is not.
- Posted by Janewhat a sad and alarming time when those entrusted with teaching our young people are so far removed from the realities of life. Just who do they think are going to risk their lives to protect the freedoms they so readily abuse?
I don’t think anyone considering the armed forces will be unaware they could be risking their lives. That’s what soldiers do for us and they deserve our unreserved support and gratitude..
- Posted by Andrew FretwellThe MOD should have the legal right to make presentations in all publicly funded schools, which belong to taxpayers; not to teachers or the jobsworths who sit on local education authorities.
Kids join the forces to do what the rest of us are too frightened to do. Even better, it gets them off the streets during those critical late teenage years when they need strong discipline and an outlet for their natural aggression. The majority of them who join up will be better citizens for it.
Only the NUTs would think there is anything wrong with that.
- Posted by Mike TOnce again, I am aghast at the complete piffle that comes from political conferences. If there should be an abolition of anything in schools, it should be the NUT. Two motions tabled this year confirm my own view that the NUT and its membership are one of the bodies responsible for the sad decline of British society. Your members are too self interested, have lost sight of their role to teach kids impartially and to educate and inspire them and who are inflicting their own socialist/atheist politics in the lessons they teach. The two motions I refer to are in relation to the armed forces. This is illustrated by the inference by a speaker (I do not know the name) that these kids are coerced into signing up to “possibly torture…” is a vile, offensive misrepresentation of facts. Secondly, the call to teach the Koran in schools , which according to one would unite us as a nation. It is laughable. Both of these motions are examples of the NUT’s commit to the social engineering of our society.
- Posted by M LinehanThe teaching profession is truly at rock bottom.
With the breakdown of family life in recent years teachers shouldn’t complain about recruitment in schools they should be campaigning to bring back National Service; most youths of today would benefit from it!
- Posted by ernesti think people like cathrine brennan should engage her pea brain before opening her big mouth.
- Posted by tony hayeswe have got kids of all age groups who can hardly read or write,and in many cases can hardly string a sentence together,so maybe they need to be looking at the standards of teaching and some of the teachers.
i dont believe ANY teacher should be voice thier political opinions in the school.
the army DOES provide a great career,with travel,training and a secure future.
it also embeds a moral standard in most of the young men and women who join the military,something that is severly lacking in many young people now.
at the age of sixteen,these youngsters go to the likes of junior leaders college where they continue both academic training and military training.
i served eight years in the army including tours of duty in N.Ireland at the height of the troubles in the early and mid 70’s and lost one lad and had two badly wounded.
this is a risk we take and accept as soldiers,thats why we joined the army.
my father,grand father and great grand father all served in the forces,good job realy other wise cathrine brennan and her cronies might be speaking german eh!
Hmmm, Schools complaining about distorted veiws on reality, maybe they should look at their own system, is there a bigger shock for kids than leaving school or college used to 9-3 hours with rediculously long holidays and then finding the reality of work, bills and responsibility for actions, oh thats right its all someone elses fault, at least not the parents this time.
- Posted by JamesI left the Army in 2002, as a Recruit Instructor, some of the people that came through the Army Training Regiment (ATR)were young people who had just left school.
Before they get to the gates of the ATR, they go through the following system:
School; The soldiers there have already done x years on Operations, extended training courses, sport (national and international)and possibly have their own family at home.
Recruiting Office; Of the 10 that go through the door, 6-5 will be invited to join, the others did not make it because they were not suitable for various reasons.
Selection Centre; Of the 6-5 invited, 2 have possibly already dropped out (friends and family at home pressure) the remaining 5-4 will still need to pass the test at the centre, 30-40% do not pass that stage!
ATR; of the 10 that walked into the Recruit office, 4-3 have walked through the gates at the ATR, 3-2 will pass out at end of their training 12-14 weeks later before going onto their Cap Badge training, the end Result will be 1,2 or 3 soldiers who have joined a PROFESSION that King Alfred, Elizabeth 1, Duke of Wellington, Victoria and HM The Queen today would be and is proud off.
At no stage of the recruitment process, are members of the public told it is a 9-5 job sitting on a chair thinking of England, Scotland or Wales and nothing will hurt them.
ALL RECRUITS ARE TOLD WHAT IS AND CAN BE EXPECTED OF THEM IN THE NAME OF THEIR COUNTRY AND GOVERNMENT OF THE DAY, SHOOT or be SHOT.
- Posted by Kev WilkinsonMost who have posted, not unlike me, have benefited from a military element in their lives. I tend to agree with Ernest and Tony and motion for a re-introduction of military service so that the sad state of today’s youth can be rectified by a system that has worked for centuries and continues to do so.
That way kids will get to sample the military and see it for what it is and make their own mind up, the flip-side is that it would make NUT happy as I am sure it will get the military out of their schools and instead get kids to go outside to do something other than vandalise things!
- Posted by AlexWhy not.they dont recruit they talk about alternative employment after leaving school.How many younsters that were not in the armed forces,(where they are taught a trade and are paid for it) would otherwise end up on the wrong side of the law. Schools should be proud to offer the opportunity of our armed forces to speak on behalf of their role in todays society, the same as the police who also enter schools and speak on drug issues and crime “Its good to talk”
- Posted by K DodsonI would like to thank my teachers for teaching me how to read, write and speak English.
I would also like to remind those same teachers, that 326,000 soldiers and 62,000 civilians lost their lives in the Second World War so that they could continue to teach this nation in English.
- Posted by JohnI am disgusted with the vote to stop the army going into shcools and all the other stuff thats been said about this on the news today, my daughter is currently serving in Iraq and we are all very proud of her, you should be supporting the British Army as we have to have one, remember ? They are fighting the War on Terror so we can all live peacefully in the future they do a tremendous job and you should be ashamed of yourselves nd concentrate mnore on getting your jobs right like dealing with bullies and making sure every child gets the help it needs throughout school and not get left by the wayside, also you need to sort out the lack of control teachers have in the classroom and how you intend tackling youngsters who end up going off the rails throughout school and that maybe they get a better chance in life by having a proper education and support they need so that they dont end up leaving school and going nowhere, yes I am angry at todays news,obviously you do not understand what the Army have to do, so when you get your house in order and you fully understand about the war on terror and terrorist attacks maybe you can comment then, until such time show some respect for our British Soldiers and what they do for their country. I finishing now as I am going to post some parcels to my daughter.
- Posted by angela zenati-evansBring back the national service!!! Irrelevant to what’s written here but… Bring it back! No more “young delinquents” roaming the streets….I mean did you have chavs waiting to hurl abuse at you and start a fight outside McDonalds in the 50/60’s? No,too busy serving “queen n country” ^^
- Posted by JCMore to the point if this “propaganda” is attractive to youths like myself(it is-joining the RM hopefully) its a good thing. It means the armed forces won’t be suffering from and deficits in personnel and more people off the streets and with a reason to live….In my eyes it gives them a form of hope….
As far as I’m concerned the armed forces is a good option for anyone, I look at my german neighbour, he’s got it all; money, the girl and f*cking nice car(Porsche Carrera =D)…. yet alone several friends and family members who have joined… they’re all on top of their game if you know what I mean…
In addition to that it gives people the “right”(can’t think of the appropriate term) to live and work in the UK and will I guess could solve “the immigration crisis” that the UK is experiencing these days… As in some people would not wish to join and the people who do join and serve Britain, earn the “right” to live and reside within the UK… At least that’s the way I view it….
Finally, aren’t teachers and schools supposed to have a neutral position in society and be somewhat saintly in a certain aspect… As in not to give their political opinion to their students yet alone express it…. =S I’m somewhat confused…. Albeit I feel if they do they should represent Britain and restore “a lost” patriotism that is found in international sporting events these days… Look at the “US of A” you don’t see too many problems with recruitment or national unity there do you?
Well hmm….? ^^
can I add to my previous posting that if the teaching profession can’t bring themselves to stand solidly behind our lads and ladies of the armed forces, please feel free to stand in front of them…
- Posted by JohnI’ve got a great idea. Instead of going around policing the rest of the world, let’s spend all that money on renewable energy research, foreign aid, and helping Britain become self-sufficient again.
- Posted by George CWouldn’t it be better if these young men and women had a country that will still be worth defending after the impending oil crisis?
Or we could just lie to these kids and watch the coffins come back home, as we usually do.
Just a thought.
Everyone wants schools to be resorts of quiet endeavour but, particularly as students get ready to join the grownup world, they need increasing doses of ‘real world’ information. Precious few teachers have ever worked anywhere except the educational system and they are unlikely to be good judges of what is appropriate for school leavers. They chose a milk-and-water career for themselves but they should recognise that a good proportion of their students are prepared to take on tougher jobs such as serving in the forces, running a business or laying bricks.
- Posted by John LambleHa George you must be a teacher!! whilst we consider your idea of not policing the world wouldn’t it be just a good an idea to get rid of the police force as well as we are all good inside, and no harm will come to us if we spend that money on research either. Have you ever been to the real world.
- Posted by drewGeorge, do you think a new solar plant or wind turbine will protect us from a long range missile or dirty bomb, join the real world, look what happened when we let Hitler rampage because it was on the other side of Europe and didn’t effect us in Blighty.
- Posted by JamesDrew,
- Posted by George CI don’t think you followed my point correctly, I was not saying we should get rid of the armed forces, simply stop invading countries that pose no threat to us. If you seriously consider Iraq to be a direct threat to the UK, I think you need to put the Daily Mail down for a bit.
FYI, I am not a teacher.
I think Drew has hit the nail on the head… Soldiers die, this should not be a revelation.
I considered joining the RAF at the age of 17, 20 years later, my perception of that career has not changed.
People are so busy jumping on the apologist anti-Iraq war bandwagon, that they seem to have forgotten that the armed forces are the only thing standing between us (or those we choose to defend) and the whim of anyone who wishes to throw their weight around on the international stage.
For god’s sake, grow up, and peep outside of your suburban guardian-reading coccoon occasionally!
- Posted by RobJC - Excellent comments, so very well put.
- Posted by ernestGeorge I believe that at every chance we get we should remove the dictator and help counties along the road to democracy, where the free speech we are having now would not end up with us both in prison, even we had to fight for and defend the right to free speech,
- Posted by drewPs I have been there where the kids are taught to sacrifice themselves for their god and the home made dirty bombs are a way of life (where the bully always wins, and your family dies) how long do we wait for the big dirty nuclear bomb before we take action and like any good teacher send the bully out of the classroom (oops I forgot that should read call the social worker and start thinking of excuses as to why he just stabbed his class mate)
George, Iraq isn’t necessarily a “threat” it just like every other nation it has a few bad cookies and the reason for going to war was very unjustified (WMD’s…I smell a big fat lie)… but there is reason to keep the armed forces beefed up believe it or not…I can’t really mention any examples as that could be considered slander or racist however rest assured there are some people or groups that would love to see us all turn to ash… sad but true…
- Posted by JCWhat kind of nonsense is this? In addition to academia our schools are supposed to instill a sense of duty and responsibility into our children and an appreciation of the laws and customs of the country which has provided their education. What kind of left-wing, sanctimonious fools are teacher training colleges producing? The children have a right to appreciate what the armed forces have done for this country in the past, what they continue to do today and what opportunities for adventure and travel they could offer to each child when the time comes for seeking a career. No-one over glamourizes the army - it is a glamourous occupation, at least some of the time. Ask the people who joined with me, some of whom are still serving almost 40 years later. The schools should be pointing out that the forces don’t suit everyone but allowing each child to make up his or her own mind if it’s worth a go.
- Posted by G Davare they really admitting that they have not educated our children weel enough to know that you might get shot at in the army??? sack them all and find people who can also teach common sense
- Posted by jtI don’t see how soldiers in Iraq are fighting for our freedom, we weren’t under threat, there were no weapons of mass destruction. Terrorism won’t be stopped by bombing the middle east.
Let’s cut right down the armed forces and spend that freed up money on Education, Health, Arts, Science etc
- Posted by D MartinThe NUT are a bunch of loony lefties, and always have been. There’s nothing more to be said really.
- Posted by Matthew DuckworthTo me entry into the Iraqi war strengthened my view that this country only appears to be a democracy. Key decisions are not made by Parliament. Hence, people have little part in decision making. They are just tools.
- Posted by RuthWhat teachers need to be doing is showing students the reality of the situation - how the public was deceived over the Iraqi war, that the country is in a serious situation over oil and gas supplies and that this was the reason to fight and will be the reason in the foreseeable future. Teachers need to let their students know that in obtaining supplies and in protecting them the army has had to and will have to carry out acts of murder, mutilation, torture and so. Also that the students would be vulnerable to such acts. Then I see no reason why the army should not carry on with its recruitment drive though not in schools for schools are/should be places of education.
Disgracefully in the Vale of Glamorgan John Smith MP using tax payers money to boast that children have the benefits of St Athan Military academy on the curriculum
- Posted by anne greagsbyWhat are they then.. Working for arms dealers Raytheon? - Cluster bomb makers? - training with mercenaries and Burmese army maybe?- Dead end jobs?
D Martin, FYI there are estimated 4000(source: BBC troops stationed in Iraq out of
- Posted by JCan estimated total force strength of 429,500(Source Wikipedia estimates for 2006)
Now in my oppinion that’s not a lot…
In the scope of things the NHS was pledged £105.6bn for 2007/08 and the
MOD £32.6 for 2007/08….big difference hey?
It should be noted that a certain percentage of the british forces are under equipped and hence this is putting them at risk in other places like Afghanistan.
Need I say more? Although I don’t necessarily approve of the deployment in Iraq
and would rather have our troops elsewhere.
It was never their descision to go to Iraq,albeit you should be condemning the descision makers!
The saying/quote “guns don’t kill people,people do” emphasizes my point clearly… I hope…..Added to that we’re not actually bombing all the time…. =P
Please enlighten us all if you have another way to reason with people that don’t reason the way we do and don’t like the “west”….Finally if we invested all of our resources in everything else but the armed forces…. We’d essentially be living a psychological bubble, unable to protect ourselves properly at a time of need… Take a step back and look at some of dangerous rising superpowers and regimes…. Wake up! On a separate note I feel the UK should abandon the current educational system and adopt the International Baccalaureate or something similar since I’m doing the EB and am two years away from finishing school and am already at A level standard =S which is worrying…. That’s another story entirely I guess…
What has this got to do with the NUT? These cosseted unworldly-wise teachers exercise their freedom of speech (and their right to strike). But who is protecting these freedoms? The armed forces that they despise. Ironic? Whatever the wrongs and rights of Iraq, that’s a political issue. The armed forces of this country are doing one of the few noble professions,it would be nice if our teachers could show the same level of commitment and dedication.
- Posted by RJB*That’s £32.6bn for the MOD….
- Posted by JCI am a teacher and dislike the negative attitude that the NUT are taking on anything. We have had many professionals including the army into school. So whats wrong with that.
- Posted by John BestThe NUT are also demanding 10% pay rises. Have they heard of wage inflation.
Be serious NUT!
As a currently serving member of the forces it’s good to see the vast majority of commenters supporting the forces. Perhaps the NUT instead of slating the forces for recruiting should be trying to recruit ex-members of the forces to teach.
Very interesting study at http://cps.org.uk on “Troops to Teachers”. Apparently it has worked very well in States.
- Posted by U.SI am disgusted by this motion and by the ludicrous sentiments of the NUT. The Army carries out the will of the Government (ie us) under the ultimate authority of the Crown. The Armed Forces are here to defend us. They must be kept up to strength and, like the police, must be allowed to advertise itself among the young in order to offer them the opportunity to serve their country. For the NUT(s)to try to deny them this opportunity is subversive to our national interests. If you wish to rail against Iraq etc, kick out this rotten government, not the Army. Shame on you all.
- Posted by M W Milburn@ Rob-
“People are so busy jumping on the apologist anti-Iraq war bandwagon, that they seem to have forgotten that the armed forces are the only thing standing between us (or those we choose to defend) and the whim of anyone who wishes to throw their weight around on the international stage.”
I don’t think anyone has forgotten that the armed forces are necessary. Again, that was not my point. In my opinion, the reasons for going to war in Iraq were misleading, almost to the point of lying. It would be nice to believe that the armed forces are used for the greater good of the world, to remove dictators, etc, but IMHO, this is simply not the case. I do not believe that the war in Iraq would not have happened if it was not an oil rich region. But that is a debate for a completely different blog. If potential recruits are not being told the full story at school, or otherwise, then they are being misled.
There are a lot of people writing on this blog who have served in the forces, or are planning to, and I have nothing but respect for them. In many of their comments, it seems that as recruits, the job was well represented and they got the job that they were expecting, and that’s great. However, it may be possible that recruitment techniques may have changed since then, and that the forces are not being accurately represented in schools. If that is the case, as per the teachers’ evaluation, then there is clearly a problem, as we don’t want people in the forces that are expecting something else.
A much more serious problem than that posed by certain rogue states is the problem of energy security. When the oil fields run dry, we’re going to have a crisis that no amount of firepower can help us defeat. If we don’t prepare for this, then the proverbial will really hit the fan. The current government aren’t helping us much by imposing top-up fees and cutting back on research.
- Posted by George CAs the former room mate of the son of an Army Planning Office employee, I couldn’t possibly comment.
At my boarding school here in New ZEaland for decades it has been going on too.
- Posted by MatthewI do not agree with the National Union of Teachers - where it would seem members are so entrenched in being so ‘Politically Correct’ at all times that they miss the actual reality in life and afraid to speak out.
Our misguided, mis-behaved, unruly and often obnoxious, rude and arrogant youths we get from schools would benefit from joining the forces, so what is the real problem?
We are nurturing what seems to be an ‘accepted’ unsocial and deluded generation of both males and females - most of whom think the State owes them a living - I do have knowledge of this.
They feel it is great to not have to work so they can stay in bed, draw regular money, get easy loans - and the latest bandwagon is to convince ‘whoever’ that their child has ‘an attention deficit syndrome whatsit’ and then they get £135 per week as well!
Give me a child and I could be rich and not have to work. I am sure there are children that have a real problem, but from my experience I feel there really are no proper checks made.
These are situations we and our Government are nurturing, so, I ask myself, how can the simple act of a ‘Company’ showing their employment options which are on offer and available, be seen as ‘luring’ people from deprived areas? What a load of utter tosh!
Perhaps if I encouraged them to join my Class of students I would be charged of ‘incitement to poach’?
When is this country going to stand up for all it values and believes in? We should act just as other countries do, and simply protect it, end of story!
So please, lets have some commonsense instead of this stupid ‘political correctness’ rubbish - which, cheeky smile, is oh so, so lovely to the ears of those that would and do benefit from it!
This is the United Kingdom and we should indeed defend it - if we don’t and are over run, then blaming the National Union of Teachers won’t really help will it? - it could be a tad too late I suspect!
- Posted by MaggieOn a regimental website i visit someone had left these two paragraphs – I think it just about covers it all.
I would like to thank my teachers for teaching me how to read, write and speak English.
I would also like to remind today’s teachers, that 326,000 UK soldiers and 62,000 UK civilians lost their lives in the Second World War so that they could continue to teach this nation in English.
All the best,
- Posted by JBStay safe,
JB.
Not all young people are misguided, mis-behaved, unruly and often obnoxious, rude and arrogant. However, recent studies have shown that many are neglected and unhappy. Is it then fair to send them off to a gruesome war when they may not come back or come back mutilated? It would be better to send the people who made the decision to go to war. Send the recruiters to Parliament. How many of the MPs have children in the armed forces? How many would have voted to go to war if they had?
- Posted by RuthRuth said, “Not all young people are misguided, mis-behaved, unruly and often obnoxious, rude and arrogant.”
No one has said that they are! Whilst the loony left NUT are all for teaching much younger children that same sex sex is normal at an age when they should not know about such things they claim that 15/16 year olds are too young to understand what could happen to them if they decide that serving Queen and Country is what they want.
Please, people, get a reality check.
John O’
- Posted by JohnI think the main issue here is that if you say to a 15/16 year old that he or she can get a good paying job that will set them on a career path with the oppourtunity to see the world, along with the added bonus of not really needing any qualifications, then perhaps we shouldn’t allow recruiters to be waving job prospects infront of kids just about to do their GCSE’s. I don’t have a problem with the forces as I have several family members who are serving currently, but we don’t allow the police to recruit in schools or the fire service or any number of different institutions. So just because some people think it might be a good idea to leave recruiting out of schools doesn’t mean they are unpatriotic. They just realise that offering very young adults a quick fix to independence might best be kept out of the assembley hall. And besides, there are enough adverts on TV, the internet and public transport that if they really want to join up they know where to go
- Posted by McShabbyI think it is sad that at time when teenagers should be learning, they are instead pointed in the direction of the Army. I say keep them out of schools and keep the government out also, S.A.T.S and league tables are not what learning is all about. Career day is the time to talk about the Army, along with all the other career options. Our children are our responsibility, it is our choice if we want them exposed to underhand recruitment propaganda, most of us DO NOT.
- Posted by Mrs P