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10:07 July 11th, 2008

Knife crime - what can be done to stop it?

Posted by: Michael Holden
Tags: UK News, , , , , , , , ,

(This blog was updated on July 17 to include the latest crime figures. First posted May 14)

**For full coverage of crime in Britain click here **

knives.jpgIt’s easy to speak of an epidemic amid the many headlines of stabbings in London. But the Metropolitan police, which has made tackling knife crime its top priority said on Friday despite more than 50 fatal stabbings so far this year London has an “issue with knives” rather than suffering from an epidemic.

To combat the “issue”, police have searched 27,000 people, arrested more than 1,200 and seized 500 knives in London during their six-week “Operation Blunt 2″ campaign.

Figures from the government’s British Crime Survey show there were 22,151 serious offences involving knives in England and Wales in the 12 months to March 2008, although overall crime fell significantly.

Politicians have called for tougher laws to deal with knife crime. Opposition leader David Cameron wants anyone caught carrying a knife to be jailed. Cameron’s custodial sentence demand goes one step further than Prime Minister Gordon Brown who said last month there should be a presumption to prosecute those aged 16 and 17 caught with a knife, rather than merely cautioning them.

Home Secretary Jacqui Smith says that those convicted of carrying knives would be made to visit hospital emergency wards in attempt to confront them with the reality of stab wounds.

But tougher penalties don’t chime necessarily with those who have been affected by knife crime. “I was 16 eight years ago and it wasn’t like that then,” says Brooke Kinsella , a former “EastEnders” actress whose brother Ben was stabbed to death last month. Politicians “don’t know what’s going on. It’s the people that live in their local communities that know and hear about these attacks every day,” she told an interviewer. knife-adthumbnail.jpg

But what can be done when barely a week goes by now without news that another teenager has died on Britain’s streets, their killers armed with guns or knives?

Sometimes the victim was targeted because of gang rivalry. Often it was an argument that simply got out of hand. Or, as in the case of 16-year-old Jimmy Mizen, murdered in a London baker’s shop, it was simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Since the issue of youth violence became prominent last year, following the fatal shooting of 11-year-old schoolboy Rhys Jones, there have been many promises of action from politicians. But, if anything, the situation seems to be getting worse.

More police, tougher sentencing, better facilities for young people, and targeting vulnerable families have all been suggested as remedies.

What do you think is needed to stop the bloodshed?

36 comments so far

Teenagers are young growing buds. Lot of care has to be taken if we need them to blossom into a beautiful flower (Successful person or professional). For that, care and good education/guidance has to be given right from young age and the first place to start from is home! Parents need to spend more time with their children and guide them to a better future. Schools and educational institution should increase the awareness of crime and also under-age sexual activities which is another concern as the rate of individuals being infected with AIDS and other STD is increasing day by day.

- Posted by Rishab Varma

nothing can be done. even if we lived in world where there was no violence. no cert 18 video games, fils etc it can’t stop someone being angry and acting out.

Even if the police did regular stop and searches on people someone will slip through the net and kill someone. There is no way of stopping teenage or adult killings. Tougher sentences cannot even be applied cause there is so much over-crowding in prisons there would be no room for any one convicted.

- Posted by m thompson

In my humblest of opinion, the UK government should bring back Conscription from 18 years of age. This would bring respect back to a lot of young frivolous, lost souls because most parents cannot control their children because they are no longer allowed to discipline them. This is thanks to irresponsible politicians who insists that parents should not hit children.

The Government should also start look at bringing back capital punishment for proven murderous crimes. The whole of society will then have a lot to think about before they commit these murderous crimes.

- Posted by jack g

what we need is more facilities to take these kids off the streets. we need an education system that keeps them stimulated no matter what ability they are. without both, this will continue.

- Posted by Andrew D

It cannot go without comment that the vast majority of these killings are carried out by non whites on non whites. This is certainly the case in London. Irrespective of the claims by politicians we are not an integrated society in the UK. There exists vast differences in aspirations and values between the white communiites and the ethnic communities in the inner city areas of this country. Tougher sentencing won’t make the slightest difference in reducing these mindless killings. As long as young men and women feel removed from the main stream of British culture this violence can only escalate perhaps with dire consequences for all of us.

- Posted by John Bell

Partly agree with M Thompson but I think the number of murders would decrease if we introduced the death penalty.
But i don’t think this will ever be reintroduced to the UK.

- Posted by D Hopkins

We need to get to the root of the problem - social depravity. Give these youngsters something to do apart from take drugs and get violent. Sterilization is probably the best option.

- Posted by Julien Bandwidth-Hogg

I am not in the UK, but here in the US, we have all but eliminated God from the public school classroom. When young ones are taught that we descended from apes, that we are just cosmic accidents if you will, is it surprising that they act in this manner? If there is no ultimate judgment for what is done in this life, why not do as you want? God created us and we are responsible before Him for everything that we do. And since He created us in His image, human beings have value. And how sad to teach people a lie (evolution) only for them to stand before the Judge of the universe one day and be condemned. His Word will stand forever.

- Posted by Sven

I’d say anything is possible! we need to put in efforts and many out there are not ready to do it (because of their own reasons, which I understand). But if we need to see a change, we are the ones who can make it happen. The government can only put policies in place and try to reduce the effect, but it all comes down to us individuals! “what we sow, is what we reap”

- Posted by Rishab Varma

In reply to jack g,

I also belive that a re, introduction of national service would kickstart attitudes into changing.

However, I also think that, through the tabloids, we are creating the mess ourselfs. Young people are only living up to the way in which they are being portrayed through the media. If we stopped reporting it and started dealing with it, would that change anything?

When we have situations where young people are now on third generations of not working and claining benifits, there is no work ethic, the result of which is the gang culture that we have across our cities.

Its taken generations to get to where we are now and will take generations to get away from it. We need to start doing something, but in the knowledge that it is for the long term result and that there is no quick fix.

- Posted by yakk

In truth, we all really KNOW what has to be done, but no-one it seems has the ‘nuts’ to do it! Start by ignoring the offenders so called ‘Rights’- and ignore all the liberal ’social workers’ too, they’ve had their day and failed dismally, just ask yourself - how was it done before, when we had safe streets? We DID have it right? I would pray that 2 high court judges, 2 top barristers and 2 MP were shot or stabbed, that should do it, then we would see the answer, both positively and swiftly!

- Posted by Steve P

If it gets to the point where an adolecsent is carrying a weapon we have already lost them. Go into any maternity unit and chose which child will grow up to be a killer. It really is the luck of the draw what you are born into. Children need love, guidance and boundaries from day one and throughout their formative years. If any one of these components is missing a child can go wrong and make the wrong choices with devastating consequences.
I am frightened about the way this country is going because there is no dicipline (I don’t mean physical) or repect for others no one seems to think they are answerable to anyone. I could go on and on but this should have been nipped in the bud years ago I fear now it is too late.

- Posted by Amanda Sawyer

After the 2nd world war, Europe migrated towards rapid industrialisation and modernisation. In this pace lots of goodwill got lost in the sewage, family values, religion, ethical principles, all in the name of democracy, capitalism and equality.

All this were good until the 70s, and then gradually in the early 90s, side effects started to kick in from the modern families who had embraced this new values. This has resulted parents becoming paralysed to control there kids and churches being converted to pubs, and the worst group are those, who have just have parked there kids on the face of the public. This people should be given a lesson to become responsible, i.e. benefit payments should be revoked permanently.

To curb with the modern crime some major attributes, have to be reinstall, beginning with the responsible parent, to have kids shouldn’t be free privileges on the expenses of the public, and zero tolerance introduced, better education, and large prisons without cable TV, crime punishment shouldn’t be a relaxing holiday, criminal should work in prisons, and pay for the crime committed.

- Posted by Yucel

THERE IS NO ACCEPTABLE SOLUTION IN TODAYS SOCIAL ENVIROMENT . WE USED TO HAVE WARS with the army, as cannon fodder, and OFTEN conscripted off the streets TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM. NOW WE HAVE PROFFESIONAL SOLDIERS WHO STILL SADLY DO NOT COME BACK BUT NO ROOM FOR LOUTS AND THEIR ANTI-SOCIAL BEHAVIOUR. THE ONLY REAL ANSWER IS A CULLING OF THE YOUNG OR CAPITAL PUNISHMENT. THIS PROBLEM IS OF THE MAKING OF OUR SO CALLED MODERN SOCIETY.. MEN USED TO CARRY SWORDS IN lONDON IN DAYS GONE BY TO PROTECT THEMESELVES THEN THE LAW AND THE POLICE OF THE TIME EXECUTED THE CULPRITS OR THREW THEM INTO RATHER NASTY PRISONS INSTEAD OF HOLIDAY CAMPS. THE STREETS BECAME SAFE FOR MOST OF MY LIFETIME UNTIL NOW SADLY WHEN NO ONE DARES VENTURE OUT LATE AT NIGHT.

- Posted by terry coates

Before capital punishment was abolished it was rumoured that the experienced members of criminal gangs (for example burglars) would check that they young hotheads were not armed, because if someone got shot in the heat of the moment, the whole lot of them could hang. There is no doubt in my mind that for similar reasons the reintroduction of hanging would make people think twice about going around routinely armed with deadly weapons. Hanging is a pretty grisly business, but it’s not as abhorrent as the behaviour of some of the members of our growing underclass.

- Posted by Matthew

There is no doubt - the death penalty should and must be reintroduced to stop these hooligans from carrying ANY WEAPONS. Nothing else will stop them and we will have more prison spaces without the horrendous costs. Certainly they are of no use in our society

- Posted by Holland J

I think the punishment system currently in the UK is what is the main problem, teenagers no longer care if they are sent to jail for a year or two. And if anything, a lot of them even feel proud to say that “they have been inside” like it something “cool” or desired amongst young people.

I am a teenager myself and I have completly different attitudes but maybe that was the way I was brought up or the fact that I understand the implications of going to jail to a further extent. What I have seen is, the teenagers that start to perform badly in school are the ones that no longer feel bothered with their life and resort to “life on the streets” as some sort of drop back. So, the fact that young people are doing badly in education and not getting significant help and support from teachers or even parents isnt this a sign? A lot of parents arent tough enough with their children, and I dont mean directly resorting to hitting your children - we have all seen those “super nanny” programs that are able to calm and gain control over aggresive and disobediant children.

As well as this there is also the big issue that the individuals commiting the crimes aren’t afraid to commit them. Isnt the point of the crime and punishment system to make potential offenders afraid of the consequences so that they don’t commit the crimes? And if these crimes continue to be committed by younger and younger offenders, doesn’t it suggest it is becoming more acceptable amongst them? Clearly, if youngsters aren’t bothered enough that they still carry knives and guns shouldn’t we MAKE them bothered and afraid so that they won’t commit such crimes. Youth offenders instutions are said to be just like “youth clubs”, if this is the impression being given out to our young generation, can we really expect anything better, especially if parents and teachers are losing control of these youngsters.

Some people talk that violence on tv and video games is a cause of the violence on our streets, but, crime has allways been around and so has violent films. That isnt the case, a seperation from television and real life is what needs to be implemented. Teenagers need to realise that what happens on their tv screen should stay there because in the “real world” severe punishments would be put in place. But evidently, this isnt the thoughts of the teenagers committing the crimes.

As i said before, a harser punishment is needed, jail these days isnt seen as such a frightening place for teenagers.

To solve these issues, capital punishment would be a clear solution, what could be worse of a punishment than death? Obviously, the thought isnt a pleasant one, but we need to think in the long term, if we let this situation continue, more and more INNOCENT people WILL be killed, there is NO DOUBT about that, but if the death sentence were put in place, GUILTY people would be killed and less and less INNOCENT people would die. So we have to make a decision, do we let this continue and let all these innocent people be murdered or do we take a bold stand and put in place something which WILL deter killings and young offenders, with the use of a SMALLER amount of “scape goats” to gain back control?

And if the answer isnt clear, would you not look around the world and see why the situation is so bad in the UK? China for example, has the largest population in the world and yet its crime rate is quite low in tables, doesnt this suggest we are doing something considerably wrong? Shouldnt we learn from others maybe?

- Posted by Enio

There are many posts that I can agree with, political correct nonsense and so on.
But hey, lets step back and look deeply at those of us who are far away from beening teenagers.
Hands up those who have been to a nice (and expensive) pub or bistro in the City. Wealthy, educated, conservative people enjoying themselves without bothering anyone else?
No actually, a breed of wealthy ignorant loudmouthed lawyers , bankers and the like. Setting a superb example!!
Go abroard (I live in mainland Europe and have all but left the island, and then you will see the best examples from every social and economic scale. Loudmouthed, ignorant, total lack of respect for their fellow man.

Look why, then look for solutons. Look at parents and make then take responsibility.

A difficult problem to address when the “elders” of the island are no better except their dress code is slightly different.

- Posted by EuroD

Children need to be loved and know that they are loved. So much weighs on how they are treated by their parents from birth. If they are loved, they will know how to love. Love is manifested through many dimensions, one of which is time invested in relationships. Many parents may not be fortunate enough to afford that time and care and indeed many do not know how to love. Governments should intervene on a local level by providing the support for those parents who struggle to bring up their children, social clubs could be organised in every neighbourhood for kids to form a community with others overseen by specialists in social care. Churches should be involved in promoting that - after all the message of Jesus is love.

- Posted by Lulu

The solution is simple. Build more prisons and apply a sentance worthy of the crime.

If the prison population rises to 1,000,000 the so be it.

- Posted by Nick Evans

Lulu - agree with you whole heartedly. Kids aren’t being raised with enough love, and never grow up knowing how to love. This is a vicious circle that will continue forever without intervention. We have seen that prison doesn’t work, if we are going to lock a million people up then we may as well give up altogether. I do agree with Lulu that religion could make a huge difference, although I don’t believe in a god myself.

Perhaps some kind of social cleansing is in order. The only trouble is that we would have to kill 65% of the population.

- Posted by Tom Morgan

When Rhys Jones was shot last August I started a petition lodged at 10 Downing Street to allow a referendum on the reintroduction of capital punishment.

You can sign the petition at -

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/capital-p/

- Posted by DAB

This Government is to blame for the whole mess…
I remember Blairs and Labour’s slogan “tough on crime and tough on the causes of crime”…..

Well, is this the British model of “tough”???
It’s time to adopt the model of the USA….

No problems when it comes to being “Tough” on Saddam and his cronies!

Prison MUST be a deterrent….otherwise we have all failed, as WE vote in the government.

- Posted by Steve

Tighter border controls and deportation of undocumented visitors and their children.

If this means deportation to a country in a state or war and certain persecution so be it. Asylum should be capped because our country is now in danger of becoming the type of hell holes that most asylum seekers come from. A small land mass such as the UK simply cannot support the volume of population that is arriving daily.

Politicians must face up to their obligations to UK tax payers and voters. Many parts of our major cities are no more than benefit shops for people who do not speak English, do not work, have no cultural ties whatsover with the UK and in my opinion have no place in this country. In this anti-cultural chaos fear, crime and violence are inevitable.

- Posted by Tom

This is a social issue - legislation for guns and knives helps little if fashion is such that people think it cool to kill because that is a big part of the dominant image of success in their social zone.

The media has a share of the blame by devaluing any ordinary life syle in the sick process of making fame everything that matters. There is also an underlying criminal economy that is much larger than it was in past decades because of illegal drugs and this is at the core of a large percentage of the problem becuse it simply funds a large number of lawless individuals and activities.

Either we randomly test people every day for drugs, make those with big money justify where every pound comes from, properly arm, equip, train and pay our police and get serious about stopping drugs which they certainly are not at the moment and never really have been or just simply legalise drugs and tax them. Anything else is corruption and nothing short of one of these alternatives will make our society safer in the long term.

- Posted by Roger Cooper

The “knife culture” is just a symptom of the breakdown in society. That breakdown has been deliberately engineered by successive Socialist governments to promote the divisions in society which Socialism needs in order to thrive. Recognise and treat the political disease and the symptoms will slowly disappear as society repairs itself.

All decent people can help themselves and the whole country by voting the current repellent government out of office at the first opportunity. Recovery can then begin.

- Posted by Lobito

National service! only disipline can serve these bored teenagers!!

- Posted by linda mc cloy

bring back national service!only disipline can serve these bored teenagers!!

- Posted by linda mc cloy

i dont repeat myself a third time! thank you and good night!!

- Posted by linda mc cloy

How many people will it take to administer and deliver the governments latest crack pot scheme? Social workers/police have a difficult time already and this additional administrative burden will be extremely expensive and impossible to administer. what punishments will be given to those who dont attend the hospitals? The list goes on. The only real deterent is prison / return of capital punishment for murder.
Politicians dont have the stomach for this but the people of Britain shoudl be asked by way of a referendum wether cap punishment should be employed again.

- Posted by Kelvin Trott

If someone is caught with a knife, especially if they are ferral and have minimum social skills, then they should have a commuted sentence that requires them to spend three years being educated and socialised in a strict, secure environment.

Discipline is something they lack in spades, and they need this taught to them.

However, human rights MUST prevail and we need to ensure that these people do not suffer ANY abuses or bullying at all.

The environment must have a very positive anti-bullying policy and showing these people by example how to behave is a paramount issue.

We cannot have a prison-like ethos where drugs, violence and abuse from inmates and guards are permitted.

If we do not ensure these ‘new style reformatories’ do not have the same problems as the old ones (as portrayed in the film ‘Scum’), then it will be a failure.

There must be numerous checks and balances, where rape, abuse and violence are totally excluded. A separate, independent office of inmate advocates should be instituted and given real power to ensure abuse, etc., is kept at bay and that victims will get immediate assistance and support.

Teaching these kids respect, dignity and fairness, would be the number one priority.

They deserve that!

- Posted by The Truth Is...

Igrew up in a deprived area. Yes we were rebels but never ever thought of carrying a knife. We used to play football with 20 a side or cricket.I can honestly say i wished they had had national service when i was a teen as it wouldnt of given us more direction in life. I believe that they should bring it back or increase boot camps as i believe this will give these youths more direction and discipline and teach them respect towards others.It makes me sad when i see our soldiers in service and then see these young thugs .

- Posted by darren w

Tough on crime doesn’t help. States in America who have the death penalty do not have a reduced murder rate (in fact some have much higher rates).

I think Blair did have something with the 3rd way. Basically that economic prosperity was the best way of keeping crime down. Certainly the stats proove that affluent people are less likely to be sent to prison or commit crimes etc.

That being the case, I think the problem is going to get worse before it gets better. The current economic doom and gloom will not provide much prosperity for the youths who feel they have to carry a knife to be safe.

I would also say there is a major problem with the whole generation of kids who were a teenage pregnancy, and have parents who were a teenage pregnancy. These people obviously have much less life experience than older parents to pass onto their kids, and consequently stand less chance of being successful parents. They are also likely to be in the benefits trap and unlikely to have a career and demonstrate to their kids the importance of a good education and career.

- Posted by Grant

It is FAR too late.. an entire generation has been lost to this violent culture

- Posted by dorothy

I recall many years ago when razor slashing in Glasgow was something of a gang pastime, Lord Carmont in a landmard court case consigned an offender convicted of such a crime to prison for 15 years for such an outrage.
It had the effect of almost overnight, stopping such attacks.
This was at at a time when such a sentence was invariably carried out without any consideration of sentence reduction, for whatever reason, and because of this the knife and razor carrying community knew exactly where they stood.
Forty years on, thanks to politicians who, for their own reason wish to promulgate their own progressive ideologies, society is no further forward. Quite the reverse.

- Posted by Robert Brown

The biggest problem in my eyes is the human rights culture that runs through this country. When a crime of any type is committed and a jail sentence is given it should be for a minimum sentence and the sentence increased for bad behaviour, not the other way around. When a jail sentence is being served all human rights should be taken from the prisoner after all the prisoner had no thoughts for the victims rights. Prison should be made a place to avoid and that is how it should feel for the prisoner. He made the choice to be imprisoned

- Posted by Brian

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